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ESPN Numbers Never Lie: Michael Jordan Vs. Kobe - Would Six Rings Put Kobe On Jordan's Level?


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#141 Red September

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Posted August 27, 2013 - 08:05 PM


Duncan seems way too low. I would put him above Hakeem, Shaq, and arguably Russell.

i don't think so. One on one. Shaq, russel, and Hakeem can beat Duncan in a close game.


And to the guy who put Kobe at 3rd right now. Oh gezz. He's 7th right now in my books. If Kobe gets more rings, points, MVP and then he can be 3rd.

Edited by Carpe Diem, August 27, 2013 - 08:18 PM.

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#142 RobBlake

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Posted August 27, 2013 - 08:08 PM

No disrespect to Tim because he's a bonafide stud but he's simply not a better player than Hakeem.

Oh yeh Spurs are garbage. See how most everyone keeps drinking their kool-aid? Well it's usually sugarless and another year removed proves it.

Tim is great no doubt.. but he wasn't at an all time level great this finals


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#143 DanishLakerFan

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Posted August 27, 2013 - 10:30 PM

Tim is great no doubt.. but he wasn't at an all time level great this finals

Perhaps being 36 years old had something to do with it.

 

i don't think so. One on one. Shaq, russel, and Hakeem can beat Duncan in a close game.


And to the guy who put Kobe at 3rd right now. Oh gezz. He's 7th right now in my books. If Kobe gets more rings, points, MVP and then he can be 3rd.

One on one in one game, perhaps Shaq and Hakeem could beat Duncan. But over a series, i think Duncan would come out on top.

Duncan is right up there with Shaq and Hakeem (in my book he's higher). Since he was drafted in 97 the Spurs have consistently been a 50 win team and he's a perennial all-star, all-nba and all-defender, with two mvps and four rings. Easily the greatest PF of all time.

Russell is the greatest Winner of all time and you could make an argument for him being the GOAT.



#144 RobBlake

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Posted August 27, 2013 - 11:09 PM

Perhaps being 36 years old had something to do with it.

 

One on one in one game, perhaps Shaq and Hakeem could beat Duncan. But over a series, i think Duncan would come out on top.

Duncan is right up there with Shaq and Hakeem (in my book he's higher). Since he was drafted in 97 the Spurs have consistently been a 50 win team and he's a perennial all-star, all-nba and all-defender, with two mvps and four rings. Easily the greatest PF of all time.

Russell is the greatest Winner of all time and you could make an argument for him being the GOAT.

It didn't have anything to do with it, he had chances to score but he failed, especially in game 6.

 

Duncan is not as dominate as Shaq


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#145 DanishLakerFan

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Posted August 27, 2013 - 11:57 PM

It didn't have anything to do with it, he had chances to score but he failed, especially in game 6.

 

Duncan is not as dominate as Shaq

I don't think it's fair to judge a player based on ONE missed layup.

 

No, Duncan isn't as dominant as Shaq, but who is? Shaq around 2000 is the most dominant force the League have seen since Wilt.

 

Shaq's best playoff numbers, i think, were in '00 and '01 where he averaged 30ppg, 15rpg, 3,1apg and 2,4 bpg on .560 shooting.

Duncans best playoff run we're in '03 where he averaged 24ppg, 15.5rpg, 5apg, 3.3 bpg on .530 shooting. In the final game, Duncan dropped 21pts, 20rebs, 10ast and 8 Blocks, which is quite dominant if you ask me.



#146 Real Deal

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Posted August 28, 2013 - 12:12 AM

Duncan is a center, guys.  Even I used to call him the greatest PF to ever play the game, but throughout most of his career, you'll look back and see he played center, once D-Rob retired.  I believe there were only 1-2 seasons, in his career, that he played mostly the PF position.  Even this past season, Splitter was playing PF half the time he was on the floor, and all the time he was out there with Duncan.

 

Regarding the greatest centers...I would have to take Hakeem over Duncan, but Shaq might be a different story.  Most know that I am biased towards a player's ability to do everything on the court, though...which, honestly, should mean a LOT when it comes to player rankings.  Shaq's defense was an issue, and his conditioning hurt his play as well.  He also had nothing to provide teams outside of 10 feet, unlike Olajuwon and Duncan.

 

It's the same reason why I don't say that Bill Russell is the greatest player (or Celtic) of all time.  He was not an offensive threat out on the court.  Russell was the Ben Wallace of his time (took more shots than Big Ben, which upped his PPG and lowered his FG%, but you know what I'm saying)...and Big Ben was an athletic freak, much like Russell, but most of all, a defensive juggernaut who played much bigger than his true size.

 

Back in the day, a defensive anchor was huge.  Shooting percentages were already low across the boards (go look at teams' percentages in Russell's era), so having someone like Bill contesting shots close to the rim was vital.  Shrink the league (teams and players), shrink the players (size), and shrink athletic abilities (you had guys like Wilt, but many were FAR less athletic), and Russell teams up with HOF players to create a dynasty and win 11 rings.



#147 DanishLakerFan

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Posted August 28, 2013 - 02:00 AM

Duncan is a center, guys.  Even I used to call him the greatest PF to ever play the game, but throughout most of his career, you'll look back and see he played center, once D-Rob retired.  I believe there were only 1-2 seasons, in his career, that he played mostly the PF position.  Even this past season, Splitter was playing PF half the time he was on the floor, and all the time he was out there with Duncan.

 

Regarding the greatest centers...I would have to take Hakeem over Duncan, but Shaq might be a different story.  Most know that I am biased towards a player's ability to do everything on the court, though...which, honestly, should mean a LOT when it comes to player rankings.  Shaq's defense was an issue, and his conditioning hurt his play as well.  He also had nothing to provide teams outside of 10 feet, unlike Olajuwon and Duncan.

 

It's the same reason why I don't say that Bill Russell is the greatest player (or Celtic) of all time.  He was not an offensive threat out on the court.  Russell was the Ben Wallace of his time (took more shots than Big Ben, which upped his PPG and lowered his FG%, but you know what I'm saying)...and Big Ben was an athletic freak, much like Russell, but most of all, a defensive juggernaut who played much bigger than his true size.

 

Back in the day, a defensive anchor was huge.  Shooting percentages were already low across the boards (go look at teams' percentages in Russell's era), so having someone like Bill contesting shots close to the rim was vital.  Shrink the league (teams and players), shrink the players (size), and shrink athletic abilities (you had guys like Wilt, but many were FAR less athletic), and Russell teams up with HOF players to create a dynasty and win 11 rings.

 

Russell was the first NBA player that really understood the concept of winning and playing team oriented basketball. He probably could have scored more points, but he knew that for them to win, he needed to be the defensive anchor. Also, unlike many big men today, Russell could turn his defense into offense, by controlling the ball after the block. That is why he was so great.

 

He did play with HOF players, but so did everyone else with multiple rings. The difference is, that Russell was winning for over a decade.


Edited by DanishLakerFan, August 28, 2013 - 02:01 AM.


#148 Yellow_Evan

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Posted August 28, 2013 - 04:30 AM

Just curious, but does George Mikan belong anyone here? Granted, he was just 6'9 and would likely be a Josh Smith-type player today at best. 



#149 Harry Styles

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Posted August 28, 2013 - 01:01 PM

It didn't have anything to do with it, he had chances to score but he failed, especially in game 6.

 

Duncan is not as dominate as Shaq

I remember Tim Duncan going off Game 6. What game were you watching?



#150 Real Deal

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Posted August 29, 2013 - 12:33 AM

Russell was the first NBA player that really understood the concept of winning and playing team oriented basketball. He probably could have scored more points, but he knew that for them to win, he needed to be the defensive anchor. Also, unlike many big men today, Russell could turn his defense into offense, by controlling the ball after the block. That is why he was so great.

 

He did play with HOF players, but so did everyone else with multiple rings. The difference is, that Russell was winning for over a decade.

Russell scored enough.  He just wasn't efficient, like a big man should be.  He never, ever had a season at 47% or better from the floor...and at 6-10, with super athleticism, that's not setting aside your offensive play, it's just not being a good offensive player.

 

In fact, for three consecutive seasons, he took 16+ shots a night.  His career FG percentage ended at 44%.  He was also an awful free throw shooter, at around the time when players were given three FT's to make two, and two FT's to make one (when in the penalty).

 

And yes, Russell was winning for over a decade...with 8-10 teams in the league.  Boston was the only 50-win team in 1959, Russell's first ring.  Russell and Bob Pettit led the league in nearly every statistic.

 

Funny enough, Russell was second in FG%...at 45.7%.  Kenny Sears topped everyone at 49%.  That's how bad the NBA was when Russell started winning his rings, and because Boston had a guy who was 6-10 and a legit defensive anchor, teams couldn't shoot the ball anywhere in the paint...basically paving an easy path by taking advantage of an era that had little talent.

 

I would bet my house that the Boston dynasty team, if inserted into today's NBA, would not win more than one ring.  Cousy shot a career 37.5% from the floor, never had a 40% season in the 14 years or so he played and never notched double-digit assists (so he is in the HOF because of the dynasty).  Same with Bill Sharman, who did nothing to get there, aside from the rings.

 

In fact, I'm not even done.  Here are the HOF'ers from that 1959 team...

 

Bill Russell

Bob Cousy

Bill Sharman

Tom Heinsohn

Frank Ramsey

Sam Jones

KC Jones

 

Again, from one team.  

 

Everyone significant plays with HOF'ers?  Not sure if it's that extreme.  Boston stacked all the talent (and none of their careers were that great, aside from Russell...let's be honest) and took over the watered-down league, and by watered down, I'm talking pouring the entire drink out and never buying another one again.



#151 BasketballIQ

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Posted August 29, 2013 - 07:33 AM

i think greatness isn't about skills.

 

 

gasol is the most skilled big I have seen in a while. He is better in the post than KG, he is a better handler of the rock than Timmy. he is a better passer than both in my opinion though slightly and yet they are on a level of greatness he isn't close to in my opinion.

 

 

Same with Iverson. had one true skill and that was predicated mostly on speed and heart, but he had a GREATNESS about him thatI don't feel in Chris Paul .

 

 

 

Shaq is not more skilled than Hakeem, and as DOMINATE as he is portrayed

 

In my opinion, a DOMINANT guy isn't on the back-end of a 14 point deficit and KOBE had to bail the team out. In Game 4 on the NBA finals , Kobe had to bail the team out. And we know when it was SAS vs Spurs, it was all about Kobe and those WCF were the real Finals in my book. We never sweated in the Philly and Nets "Finals". Those were simply coronations for the big fella.

 

 

 

i lol to think about what kobe and Hakeem on the floor together would look like

 

Shaq was SWEPT with Penny and a bunch of great shooters. nick Anderson was a good player as well.

 

 

LeBron was swept against the Spurs.

 

Iverson wasn't by one of the best playoff teams ever. Gasol was swept in all of his playoff series before Kobe.

 

i look at ALL that.

 

Kobe prevented us from being swept by the Pistons and the Celtics for that matter.Oh yea and the Suns.



#152 Windu

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Posted August 29, 2013 - 07:45 AM

Greatness is about skills but it's not the only "prerequisite" so to speak.

 

Intangibles are also taken into consideration when talking about greatness. Heart, Toughness, Leadership, and etc.

 

Another thing is Impact. Impact on your franchise, impact on your teammates, impact on your opponents, and impact on the league itself.

 

Then there's Longevity: You genetically engineer a perfect NBA prototype and you add in those things I mentioned: Skills, Heart, Toughness, Leadership, Impact, and Longevity. 


Pau Gasol is GONE


#153 lakersince75

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Posted September 01, 2013 - 03:21 AM

Timmy better than Hakeem???? You are seriously Trippin. You say "better than Hakeem and maybe Shaq" when Shaq will tell you himself Hakeem is better than he is. Hakeem was seriously unstoppable. I seriously don't think Pros will be lining up to go to Duncan camp. Timmy was a Bad MF but no where close to Hakeem and rings cant show this

Agreed. I'd say Timmy is better than Hakeem and maybe Shaq.



#154 lakersince75

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Posted September 01, 2013 - 03:54 AM

No. The funny part is you took all that time to GOOGLE STATS on a general statement. I just threw an example out there and your life is so full that you had to BLOG a novel. By the way, most teams played a running style of offense back then. (kind of like Nash did his whole career) Skinny guys are able to do that. Muscle bound freaks need pick and roll to catch their breath. Young man these are things you can't GOOGLE. Kareem was a 225lb 7'2" guy. Magic was 6'8" 215 lb point guard. Teams ran which is why the scores were high. The rules were different also, none of this semi zone crap that lowers score substantially these days. (thanks to Shaq) Three pointers were not shot as often. It was kind of new in the early 80's. Shooters overall back then were better. Do you know why you hear announcers these days say "the lost art of the mid range game",?? because guys these days can't shoot like guys back then. Dunks, Crossovers and 3 pointers are practiced more than anything. But again, I'm sure you'll google some stat that will state three point shooters these days are better Blah Blah Blah. Google on young man, my memory doesn't fail. Euro players flooded the league and made teams due to the ability to shoot, not dunk or crossover. (not to mentions the Billions of dollars international players generate)  All I was stating is if you have the green light and you shoot the ball 25 times, your night and numbers will look good. Most guys don't have the green light as Kobe, Lebron, or Jordan did. If Tristan Thomas had some of Kobe's shot selection his ass would be riding the bench for a long time. On the other hand if Dwayne Wade didn't have the Green Light he wouldn't be as great as he is

So...what was your point? Your statement was that anyone can put up 26 shots a night, on 45% FG or better, and play 40 minutes and do what Kobe and Mike do. Then you tell me that KAJ won an MVP in the 1985 Finals.


Why did he win the Finals MVP in 1985? Ah, because of his scoring (those are stats, by the way).

Magic Johnson: 18.3 PPG (49.4% FG), 6.8 RPG, 14.0 APG
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar: 25.7 PPG (60.4% FG), 9 RPG, 5.2 APG
James Worthy: 23.7 PPG (56.4% FG), 4.5 RPG, 3.2 APG

Of course, that was back when anyone COULD score 30 on any given night. Since you're so much older than me (I'll be 30 next month), I'm sure you saw the scores for those games.

GM1: Celtics 148, Lakers 114
GM2: Lakers 109, Celtics 102
GM3: Lakers 136, Celtics 111
GM4: Celtics 107, Lakers 105
GM5: Lakers 120, Celtics 111
GM6: Lakers 111, Celtics 100

 

The funny thing about the era that you praise so much is that defense was highly overrated.  In 1985, after the first round...there were 36 playoff games played...and JUST FIVE instances of a single team notching under 100 points.  Five...that's it.

 

Finals MVP is based on statistics, so we're going to do some work.

 

20.2 PPG (53.4% FG), 7.7 RPG, 3.5 APG

 

That's Kareem's statline in every 1985 playoff game ASIDE from the NBA Finals.  Looks like something a 2014 Pau Gasol would put up, huh?

 

The best part is, few saw that series.  I did, though, thanks to my cousin and VHS tapes...don't worry.  Kareem came out and laid an egg against Boston in the first game, when LA simply had their asses kicked in one of the two greatest games in Boston Celtics history (the other being in 2008, against us), and the Celtics figured they'd turn down the defensive pressure on him.  At one point, Kareem drove the entire length of the court, off his own rebound, and hit a sky hook.  Yes, Kareem, at 38...and the Celtics acted like spectators during the sequence.

 

Now, if you want to look away from numbers...Kareem doesn't get that Finals MVP award if Larry Bird didn't have a busted hand from a bar fight, sadly, because Bird and the Celtics would've defeated the Lakers.  Spit what you want, but it's the truth.  After his bar fight with that Boston bartender, Bird's shooting was so inconsistent, the Celtics were scrambling to find ways to defeat the Pistons, and it took Scott Wedman's big Game 6 (who came out of nowhere for them, after exiting his prime) to get it done.

 

This Boston team relied heavily on Bird.  McHale was the sixth man of the  year in 1985, after replacing Cedric Maxwell (who won the Finals MVP for the club in the 1981 Finals, lol), surely not the best PF in the league just yet (which he later became).  Bird was coming off a 1984 Finals MVP award, had a busted hand in 1985, then led his Celtics to a championship (and the 1986 Finals MVP award) after he healed up...as the Lakers lost to the Rockets, and Kareem shot under 50%, pulled down less than 7 boards a night against Hakeem (who was clearly better...he dumped 31 PPG and 11 RPG on Kareem that series).

 

Bird was, hands down, the best player in the NBA in 1985.  He was better than Magic, better than Michael (despite the incredible rookie season), and he was better than any other player you can name that year.  His 29/11/7 on 52% FG will go down as one of the most underrated performances in history, and it was because of his busted hand midway through the playoffs.  Boston three-peats without the injury.

 

You know why Kareem apologized to his teammates after Game 1?  He damn well KNEW he should've done better against Parish.  Boston's big man wasn't as great, defensively, as he was earlier in his career, and he didn't have the base to hold Kareem.  He didn't have the elevation to contest the sky hook (nobody could block it, aside from Wilt, but players like Hakeem contested it incredibly well, and KAJ admitted this).  Magic also knew he needed to get the ball down low to Kareem, and they fed him all series long, after that awful Game 1...and Boston played along, stupidly, because they were too afraid of Magic and Worthy.  In fact, wasn't this Worthy's coming-out party?  His three best playoff games that year...were all against Boston (28, 29, and 33-point games that proved he was a force to be reckoned with).  His Game 6 made up for Magic's craptastic shooting performance, and nearly matched what Kareem did.

 

----------

 

So let's go back to your statement.  If anyone can shoot 26+ times, 45% or better, drop 30 points (or whatever you stated), play 40+ minutes...then anyone can do what Kareem did in 1985.  In fact, he had two games of 30+ points in the playoffs...both against Boston.  One, he shot 26 shots to get (ironically), and the other, 28 shots...both playing 40+ minutes.

 

You know what, though?  Congrats...you found something Jordan didn't do.  Kareem won a Finals MVP award at 38 years old.  As I mentioned earlier, Cedric Maxwell won the Finals MVP for Boston in 1981 (over Bird).  Tony Parker won a Finals MVP over Duncan.  Chauncey Billups won it in 2004.  

 

Here's what's important, though: Magic won the award in 1980 and 1982.  He won it in 1987, also.  Worthy won it in 1988.  Kareem won six rings...and two Finals MVP awards.  Kind of sounds like Kobe Bryant, more than Michael...a guy who was clearly the #1 on his team, the sole #1, every championship ring he put on his finger.

 

So I'll ask again...what was your point?  KAJ had FOUR impressive NBA Finals games in 1985.  It landed him the Finals MVP.  Magic orchestrated it...and it was ALWAYS that way, since 1980.  Stick an uninjured Bird into the equation, and the series never makes it to Game 6.  Do you actually believe that Cooper's defense stopped Bird, like most of those Lakers homers back then?  Did Bird not prove he could TOAST Coop in the regular season road game against the Lakers that year, when he made Cooper look like a D-Leaguer?  Did he not toy with Cooper in the game at Boston, scoring for half the game, then playing facilitator and smiling as he dished the ball to DJ and Ainge everywhere on the floor?  You think the best player in the NBA, if healthy for that series, was going to lay down to the Lakers?

 

Maybe numbers do lie.  Kareem was Finals MVP because of his numbers, but Magic ran the show, and if it wasn't for him and Worthy, Kareem would have retired with three championships.  Real talk.  And truthfully, the star-studded Showtime Lakers are extremely lucky that Portland didn't draft Jordan, because a Jordan/Drexler/Kiki trio would have taken them to seven games in 1985 and won the Finals in 1987 and 1988.  It was unfortunate that MJ had to bust his ass, all by himself, for the first 6-7 years of his career...instead of walking into a team with Kareem, Jamaal Wilkes, and Norm Nixon (two HOF'ers, all three in the prime of their careers) in 1979.



#155 lakersince75

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Posted September 01, 2013 - 04:26 AM

By the way, there were a whole lot of IF's, maybe's woulda coulda shoulda's in your BLOG. Let's not fool ourselves. You can poke holes in anything if you sit and read enough. Bird has said numerous times Coop was a royal pain in the ass. Bird said it, not STATS. IF Portland drafted Jordan. MAYBE Kareem really dominates due to no center in Portland and Jordan MAY come off the bench because he and Drex played the same position. And you said it right. Kareem at 38 years old. How nasty was that?? He could do what he did at that age!! Jordan couldn't, Malone couldn't, LeBron won't, Kobe won't, Wilt quit. How about this one GOOGLE MAN. What IF  Worthy Magic Cooper weren't hurt when they lost to Philly. What IF Boston doesn't turn off the AC in the stadium and pull the fire alarm in the Laker Hotel in the middle of the night before the game..  IF IF IF. What IF Kobe and Shaq didn't act like two Freakin million dollar babies. Kobe may have 7 right now. You study and STAT well but there are just some things you can't. By the way IF Jordan joined a team like the Lakers with as you stated all of those HOF's instead of Magic; definitely a formula for disaster. Magic was perfect for them. A facilitator first,. not a shoot first, I want to score 50 guy.  No Disrespect; If Jordan joined the team in 79 instead of Magic, two things MAY have happened. No championship in 1980 as Jordan could not have played 4 or 5 positions in Kareem's absence. #2 Kareem retires earlier due to not having fun. Kareem was actually on the verge of retiring in 1979. Magic kept him there. I was 13 when he said this to me at a library in Harlem when I received his autograph. (the part about retiring)

No. The funny part is you took all that time to GOOGLE STATS on a general statement. I just threw an example out there and your life is so full that you had to BLOG a novel. By the way, most teams played a running style of offense back then. (kind of like Nash did his whole career) Skinny guys are able to do that. Muscle bound freaks need pick and roll to catch their breath. Young man these are things you can't GOOGLE. Kareem was a 225lb 7'2" guy. Magic was 6'8" 215 lb point guard. Teams ran which is why the scores were high. The rules were different also, none of this semi zone crap that lowers score substantially these days. (thanks to Shaq) Three pointers were not shot as often. It was kind of new in the early 80's. Shooters overall back then were better. Do you know why you hear announcers these days say "the lost art of the mid range game",?? because guys these days can't shoot like guys back then. Dunks, Crossovers and 3 pointers are practiced more than anything. But again, I'm sure you'll google some stat that will state three point shooters these days are better Blah Blah Blah. Google on young man, my memory doesn't fail. Euro players flooded the league and made teams due to the ability to shoot, not dunk or crossover. (not to mentions the Billions of dollars international players generate)  All I was stating is if you have the green light and you shoot the ball 25 times, your night and numbers will look good. Most guys don't have the green light as Kobe, Lebron, or Jordan did. If Tristan Thomas had some of Kobe's shot selection his ass would be riding the bench for a long time. On the other hand if Dwayne Wade didn't have the Green Light he wouldn't be as great as he is



#156 Majesty

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Posted September 01, 2013 - 04:44 AM

^ You're aware that if Michael had joined the Lakers it would have been WITH Magic on the same team right?   It wouldn't have been a formula for disaster in any stretch, they'd both have ended their career with 10 rings but there may have never been a Phil Jackson then so.. there's that and if there's no Phil Jackson what happens with the Shaw Kobe era?  does it happen?  What happens?

Lots of "ifs" there.


Edited by Majesty, September 01, 2013 - 04:45 AM.

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#157 West Coast

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Posted September 01, 2013 - 07:33 AM

Real Deal owning this thread.

#158 LakeShow805

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Posted September 01, 2013 - 08:37 AM

No. The funny part is you took all that time to GOOGLE STATS on a general statement. I just threw an example out there and your life is so full that you had to BLOG a novel. By the way, most teams played a running style of offense back then. (kind of like Nash did his whole career) Skinny guys are able to do that. Muscle bound freaks need pick and roll to catch their breath. Young man these are things you can't GOOGLE. Kareem was a 225lb 7'2" guy. Magic was 6'8" 215 lb point guard. Teams ran which is why the scores were high. The rules were different also, none of this semi zone crap that lowers score substantially these days. (thanks to Shaq) Three pointers were not shot as often. It was kind of new in the early 80's. Shooters overall back then were better. Do you know why you hear announcers these days say "the lost art of the mid range game",?? because guys these days can't shoot like guys back then. Dunks, Crossovers and 3 pointers are practiced more than anything. But again, I'm sure you'll google some stat that will state three point shooters these days are better Blah Blah Blah. Google on young man, my memory doesn't fail. Euro players flooded the league and made teams due to the ability to shoot, not dunk or crossover. (not to mentions the Billions of dollars international players generate)  All I was stating is if you have the green light and you shoot the ball 25 times, your night and numbers will look good. Most guys don't have the green light as Kobe, Lebron, or Jordan did. If Tristan Thomas had some of Kobe's shot selection his ass would be riding the bench for a long time. On the other hand if Dwayne Wade didn't have the Green Light he wouldn't be as great as he is

So you're saying that the players today, much more athletic, can't run like the players in the 80s?.......right  :smh:

 

So why aren't there more players putting up Kobe/LeBron/ Jordan type numbers then?.....

 

Because players don't have the ability to create their own shot like these players. Also, most players can't handle the defensive attention these guys get. 25 shots doesn't equal a good night or numbers. Good players equal a good night or good numbers.

 

Tristan Thomas couldn't make most of the shots Kobe takes and is not even close to the player Kobe is...so whats the point of even bringing that up.

 

The thing you said about Wade is just dumb....it could be used for almost any player. These players get the green light for a reason because they are elite offensive players and shot creators.

 

 

Oh yea....I googled all of that. :o)



#159 Majesty

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Posted September 01, 2013 - 08:50 AM

For the record only TWO players in the NBA shot the ball 20 times or more per game last year.

Carmelo Anthony and Kobe Bryant

EVERYONE else including LeBron that was a main option shot the ball maybe 18-15 times per game.  That includes the likes of Russell Westbrook, LeBron James and Kevin Durant and that would be around the league average of star players and you'd probably be shocked if I said LaMarcus Aldridge shoots more per game than the likes of Steph Curry, Kevin Durant, James Harden and Dwayne Wade

Fyi Kobe shot 51% on all jumpers not three pointers while creating his own shot.  That is pretty much what stops him from shooting 50% or better.   

For the record only LeBron or Durant shot better inside the arc than Kobe last year and at 20 shots per game that is saying something.   Wade shot a high percentage last year but it was mostly being fed offense from LeBron for the most part as he was a shell of himself when he had to create on his own for the majority of last year. 

But in terms of guys creating for themselves last year, inside the arc only Durant and LeBron shot a higher percentage than Kobe, and each took 3-4 less shots than him.   

Not just "anyone" can duplicate the efficiency of a Jordan or a Kobe cause they get 20 shots.  In fact NO ONE that gets 20 shots shoots a higher percentage on their jumper than Kobe.


OH and for the record, when Durant HAD to shoot 20 times a game with no Westbrook that percentage dropped to 48% and to 42% BOTH lower than Kobe.


Edited by Majesty, September 01, 2013 - 09:27 AM.

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#160 BasketballIQ

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Posted September 01, 2013 - 10:31 AM

What did Durant shoot without Westbrook? That's the shot creator. KD made strides last year as a shot creator last season but its not his strength at this point and the team is better when RW is on ball.

Dude is like the Tasmanian Devil and Durant just can move off ball hit 3s and yam on you from the top of the key, but let the D look at WB and now I think they need a Jeremy Lin type who can also create, to give them that dynamic that made them a Finals team

Edit: u edited before I could post this Majesty

Edited by BasketballIQ, September 01, 2013 - 10:32 AM.





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