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ESPN Numbers Never Lie: Michael Jordan Vs. Kobe - Would Six Rings Put Kobe On Jordan's Level?


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#121 West Coast

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Posted August 27, 2013 - 10:33 AM

Please tell me how the hell Kobe is third all time already. And the fact that you do have Russell in that pretty much proves how young and foolish you are. Kobe is not better than Bird. 

 

It's his opinion, just like you have yours.  Doesn't mean he's right and it doesn't mean you're right. So what's the point of calling someone foolish? 



#122 Harry Styles

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Posted August 27, 2013 - 11:00 AM

It's his opinion, just like you have yours.  Doesn't mean he's right and it doesn't mean you're right. So what's the point of calling someone foolish? 

And in his opinion, Duncan is better than Shaq, Hakeem, Russell. Do you really agree with that?



#123 Real Deal

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Posted August 27, 2013 - 11:10 AM

Kobe is not better than Bird. 

Yes, he is...but, aside from that, if you remove all awards and rings, Bird is the third-best overall player to step out on the court, behind Jordan and Kobe.

 

Kobe is the better scorer and defender (both on-ball and help), and that covers quite a bit.  Bird had him from downtown and pulling down boards (which is understandable), but honestly, that's about it.  Once you start factoring in things like athleticism and durability, not to mention Kobe's unmatched skills in the triple threat position (not even Jordan touches them, and that's saying something), Bird falls a bit short...but not by much.



#124 RobBlake

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Posted August 27, 2013 - 11:27 AM

Please tell me how the hell Kobe is third all time already. And the fact that you do have Russell in that pretty much proves how young and foolish you are. Kobe is not better than Bird. 

WOW lol. Kobe is easily better than Bird


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#125 gque24

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Posted August 27, 2013 - 11:47 AM

Some of you so called Kobe fans dont even know how good the guy really is (You are so spoiled & dont even realize it - I cant stand your ignorance). SMFH at some of you in here "Claiming Bird is better" !


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#126 LALakersFan4Life

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Posted August 27, 2013 - 12:00 PM

Some of you so called Kobe fans dont even know how good the guy really is (You are so spoiled & dont even realize it - I cant stand your ignorance). SMFH at some of you in here "Claiming Bird is better" !

It's his opinion. Bird was a great, great player. You can debate about those 2. It's not like he's saying Isiah Thomas is better than Kobe.



#127 LakeShow805

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Posted August 27, 2013 - 12:07 PM

 Bird better than Kobe   :laughing: .....cmon now.



#128 West Coast

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Posted August 27, 2013 - 12:14 PM

And in his opinion, Duncan is better than Shaq, Hakeem, Russell. Do you really agree with that?


Do I agree with it? No.

Can arguments be made for it? Sure.

#129 gque24

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Posted August 27, 2013 - 12:20 PM

There is 0 debate

It's his opinion. Bird was a great, great player. You can debate about those 2. It's not like he's saying Isiah Thomas is better than Kobe.


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#130 BasketballIQ

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Posted August 27, 2013 - 01:15 PM

Bird is better than Isaiah but not by a lot.

 

 

Dude the Pistons won 2 in that era that Magic won 5 and Larry won 3.

\

 

Kobe won 5 in an era where Duncan won 4 

 

 

But MJ,Kobe,Bird are different animals than any other players in the past 50 years, before them i put Jerry West on that level.

 

 

Isaiah was more in that Iverson,Chris Paul family.

 

Lebron is in a Wilt,Shaq kinda of family. Maybe Oscar and Elgin Baylor as well.

 

Duncan,Hakeem and Russell are all in a similar family. Maybe Dwight can be there eventually. MAYBE.



#131 Windu

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Posted August 27, 2013 - 02:08 PM

If we go by tiers, mine would look something like this I guess:

 

MJ Tier:

Michael Jordan (He stands alone)

 

S Tier:

Kobe Bryant

Wilt Chamberlain

Hakeem Olajuwon

KAJ

Magic Johnson

Larry Bird

 

A Tier:

Oscar Robertson

Tim Duncan

Shaquille O'Neal

Bill Russell 

Jerry West


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#132 Yellow_Evan

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Posted August 27, 2013 - 04:26 PM

If we go by tiers, mine would look something like this I guess:

 

MJ Tier:

Michael Jordan (He stands alone)

 

S Tier:

Kobe Bryant

Wilt Chamberlain

Hakeem Olajuwon

KAJ

Magic Johnson

Larry Bird

 

A Tier:

Oscar Robertson

Tim Duncan

Shaquille O'Neal

Bill Russell 

Jerry West

 

I'd swap Bill Russell for Hakeem Olajuwon because he won 11 rings.



#133 Windu

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Posted August 27, 2013 - 04:32 PM

I'd swap Bill Russell for Hakeem Olajuwon because he won 11 rings.

 

combining overall gameplay and championships. 

 

Hakeem was a beast on both sides of the ball


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#134 Windu

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Posted August 27, 2013 - 04:33 PM

Oh I forgot Moses Malone. I'd put him in A Tier


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#135 Jay Cee

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Posted August 27, 2013 - 04:55 PM

Just heard Isiah Thomas say on NBAtv "we feared kareem and double teamed him everytime he touched it. Everyone else straight up."
I'm not saying Kareem is the greatest ever, but he definitely doesn't get the respect he deserves.

#136 Tensai

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Posted August 27, 2013 - 05:02 PM

err..

 

why wouldn't I put Duncan above Shaq and Hakeem? What does he lack exactly? Or did you not read the very first line you quoted?

 

when all things considered

 

meaning, rings, accolades, stats, longevity, importance to team, basketball IQ and some intangible stuff like leadership.

 

Duncan has 4 rings, 3 FMVPs, 2 MVPs,  13 All NBA teams (10 First team) , 14 All NBA Defensive Team (8 First team). On top, he is the most fundamentally sound big man EVER. He is the primary reason why Spurs were able to dominate so long with their 2-way game. He may not have the aggressive attitude Shaq had in his prime, but he didn't need it to dominate a game. For sure I will include Shaq's prime over Duncan, but I'm not doing a peak performance assessment. Hakeem is one of the best two-way players the game has ever seen but for some reason people tend to overrate him by just mentioning his footwork in any argument. He was more than that, but the Dream stuff also made him look someone who he wasn't. For example, he wasn't the sole reason Rockets won 2 titles back to back. Or he didn't destroy Shaq. (maybe other way around) That including with other criteria I mentioned above doesn't put him above Duncan in my lists.

 

As for Russell, he was the version of Duncan or Hakeem in his time with his defensive prowess. He posessed outstanding athleticism, and basketball IQ. He was a natural born leader. But at the same time 11-ring stuff overvalues him. Lack of offensive skills is one of the major reasons I left him out of Top 10. He, Oscar, Moses, West share the 4 spots after Top 10 in no order.


Edited by Tensai, August 27, 2013 - 05:05 PM.


#137 Windu

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Posted August 27, 2013 - 06:27 PM

err..

 

why wouldn't I put Duncan above Shaq and Hakeem? What does he lack exactly? Or did you not read the very first line you quoted?

 

when all things considered

 

meaning, rings, accolades, stats, longevity, importance to team, basketball IQ and some intangible stuff like leadership.

 

Duncan has 4 rings, 3 FMVPs, 2 MVPs,  13 All NBA teams (10 First team) , 14 All NBA Defensive Team (8 First team). On top, he is the most fundamentally sound big man EVER. He is the primary reason why Spurs were able to dominate so long with their 2-way game. He may not have the aggressive attitude Shaq had in his prime, but he didn't need it to dominate a game. For sure I will include Shaq's prime over Duncan, but I'm not doing a peak performance assessment. Hakeem is one of the best two-way players the game has ever seen but for some reason people tend to overrate him by just mentioning his footwork in any argument. He was more than that, but the Dream stuff also made him look someone who he wasn't. For example, he wasn't the sole reason Rockets won 2 titles back to back. Or he didn't destroy Shaq. (maybe other way around) That including with other criteria I mentioned above doesn't put him above Duncan in my lists.

 

As for Russell, he was the version of Duncan or Hakeem in his time with his defensive prowess. He posessed outstanding athleticism, and basketball IQ. He was a natural born leader. But at the same time 11-ring stuff overvalues him. Lack of offensive skills is one of the major reasons I left him out of Top 10. He, Oscar, Moses, West share the 4 spots after Top 10 in no order.

 

Tim Duncan lacks DOMINANCE the way that Hakeem and Shaq had. Offensively, Hakeem makes Duncan look like a scrub. I wouldn't worry about Duncan offensively like I would The Dream.

 

What does Hakeem Olajuwon lack? Champion, MVP, Finals MVP, DPOY, All Star, Rebounding Champion, Blocks Champion, All NBA, All Defensive. 

 

Spurs weren't dominate. They've won four championships...big whoop. How many times have they choked? Particularly when being a top seed?

 

Duncan hasn't hit the 20 PPG mark in what? 5 or 6 years? Only time Hakeem didn't hit the 20 PPG mark was in the waning days of his career (35-39 years of age). 

 

 

Hakeem? You don't solve Hakeem

 

- The Admiral David Robinson

 

If I had to pick a center [for an all-time best team], I would take Olajuwon. That leaves out Shaq, Patrick Ewing. It leaves out Wilt Chamberlain. It leaves out a lot of people. And the reason I would take Olajuwon is very simple: he is so versatile because of what he can give you from that position. It's not just his scoring, not just his rebounding or not just his blocked shots. People don't realize he was in the top seven in steals. He always made great decisions on the court. For all facets of the game, I have to give it to him.

 

- The GOAT Michael Jordan

 

Tim Duncan ain't got [expletive] on Hakeem Olajuwon 


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#138 Tensai

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Posted August 27, 2013 - 07:43 PM

I just realized you were the No.1 Spurs basher in this forum. :smh:

 

 

yeah, why not..



#139 Windu

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Posted August 27, 2013 - 07:53 PM

No disrespect to Tim because he's a bonafide stud but he's simply not a better player than Hakeem.

Oh yeh Spurs are garbage. See how most everyone keeps drinking their kool-aid? Well it's usually sugarless and another year removed proves it.

Edited by Windu, August 27, 2013 - 07:56 PM.

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#140 Mehran The Great

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Posted August 27, 2013 - 08:04 PM


No LeBron?

he isn't top 10 yet. He's around 12th right now.

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