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ESPN Numbers Never Lie: Michael Jordan Vs. Kobe - Would Six Rings Put Kobe On Jordan's Level?


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#81 Ven

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Posted August 25, 2013 - 04:58 AM

If the comparison of skill or ability then sure, It would be preference in my opinion with the slight edge to MJ because of his physique and what seems to be nowadays underrated athleticism since everyone only mentions Lebron now it seems. Jordan was a bully to other guards especially in his later years, Kobe to me still has a lot of finesse in his games.

 

But MJ's accolades are just ridiculous with scoring titles, rings, FMVP, MVP and what I think is overlooked is DPTY. Plus undefeated in the Finals and just what seemed to be amazing moments in crunch times, like think of all of MJ's highlights and when some of them came. Stack up Lebonr and Kobe and their accomplishments still would feel short.


Edited by Ven, August 25, 2013 - 04:59 AM.


#82 lakersince75

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Posted August 25, 2013 - 07:42 AM

Kareem played in an era in which he had a 7 footer in his face every night. Great, not average centers GREAT. Centers Kareem had to deal with would be All Stars and 15 million dollar contract guys today. Artist Gilmore, Wilt, Nate Thurman, Marvin Webster, Bill Walton, Elvin Hayes, Pat Ewing, The Dream, Ralph Sampson, I can go on all day. Kareem did all this and had to wait for the ball to be passed to him before he shot or assisted. Anyone can jack up 26 shots per game, shoot 45 percent, play 40 minutes per game if they have the green light. Especially if they are in control of the ball 75 percent of the time.  Jordan was one of the first of his kind, he revolutionize play but don't think for one second he played against better competition night in and out than Kareem and Kobe 

Nobody is discrediting him for playing 20 years.  I'm saying that Kareem's 38k points, compared to Jordan's 32k, doesn't make him a better scorer because Kareem's total was racked up over the course of 20 seasons.

 

Yeah, longevity is huge, because I always mention that with Kobe Bryant.

 

However, Jordan accomplished what Kareem did in seven less seasons, as far as championships and MVPs go.  He also had the better overall seasons, and won all six of his rings as the MAN, with no co-captain.  KAJ helped Magic significantly, but everyone (even causal fans) knew who sailed the ship for at least three of those five Laker rings in the 80s.

 

Again, Garnett over Iverson is a great example.  I know Elgin Baylor falls a little lower on the list as well.  Kareem had 20 years to rack up 38,000 points.  Karl Malone had 18 seasons to slide into second place on that list (19 seasons, but one was a lockout, the other being his injury-prone season in LA).

 

Jordan was never, ever second fiddle to anyone in Chicago, and for good reason.  He was the best player in the NBA for nearly every season he played over 20 games in while wearing a Bulls uniform, and while I'll take Bird over him in 1984-85 (MJ's rookie season), I COULD argue that he was already the best by the time that season ended.

 

Regardless of what he could've done in seven more seasons, Jordan already matched Kareem's hand...and at that point, individual career numbers (including assists, which I pointed at a bit ago) favor Kareem only because he played 20 years.  It didn't make him a better passer than Jordan, didn't make him a better scorer, and overall, it didn't make him a better player...it just sticks him into the GOAT discussions the same way Wilt's 50 PPG and ridiculous rebounding averages did (all due to his era and minutes played).


Edited by lakersince75, August 26, 2013 - 06:06 PM.


#83 Real Deal

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Posted August 25, 2013 - 10:37 PM

Kareem played in an era in which he had a 7 footer in his face every night. Great, not average centers GREAT. Centers Kareem had to deal with would be All Stars and 15 million dollar contract guys today. Artist Gilmore, Wilt, Nate Thurman, Marvin Webster, Bill Walton, Elvin Hayes, Pat Ewing, The Dream, Ralph Sampson, I an go on all day. Kareem did all this and had to wait for the ball to be passed to him before he shot or assisted. Anyone can jack up 26 shots per game, shoot 45 percent, play 40 minutes per game if they have the green light. Especially if they are in control of the ball 75 percent of the time.  Jordan was one of the first of his kind, he revolutionize play but don't think for one second he played against better competition night in and out than Kareem and Kobe

Anyone can jack 26 shots a game and shoot 45% while doing it?

Wilt Chamberlain (6 times)
Rick Barry (2 times)
Bob McAdoo
Tiny Archibald
Michael Jordan
Elgin Baylor
Kobe Bryant

Everyone else that has shot 26 shots a game, in NBA history, has shot 43% or worse (Allen Iverson, Elvin Hayes, Elgin Baylor a few times, Pete Maravich, to name a few).

Kareem never did it, by the way.

I also don't understand your last statement. You say that anyone can put up 26 shots a night, 45% or better shooting...which is a shot at Kobe Bryant...but then, you say that Jordan didn't have it as bad as Kareem and...Kobe. Laker bias?

#84 epicwolf

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Posted August 26, 2013 - 12:32 PM

Kobe will never pass Jordan because more Kobe haters out there than Jordan hands down.  Heck people already put King James over Kobe.  Kobe will never win. 

 

 

I personally think Kobe is in the conversation with Jordan already. If he is not, why would there always be arguements about this?  For the lebron lovers.  Be quiet


MDA is an offensive genius. I hope he sticks to his guns and keeps doing what he does best: Run and Gun. That's the only way to coach.


#85 Real Deal

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Posted August 26, 2013 - 12:44 PM

Kobe will never pass Jordan because more Kobe haters out there than Jordan hands down.  Heck people already put King James over Kobe.  Kobe will never win. 
 
 
I personally think Kobe is in the conversation with Jordan already. If he is not, why would there always be arguements about this?  For the lebron lovers.  Be quiet

Too many personal accolades for Mike, and there's still one extra championship, not to mention all in roughly 13.5 seasons of play.

Kobe has to do a few things that Jordan never accomplished. Championships, scoring titles, MVPs, Finals MVPs, DPOY, ROY, 37 PPG average, number of 50+ point games, career scoring average, triple-doubles...MJ has a lot of advantages over Bryant. Kobe has the 81-point game, the four-consecutive 50's (includes two 60's), and awards such as All-NBA teams and defensive teams (and this makes sense, given the extra seasons he played). Also, Kobe's 15 all-star games tops Jordan's 14...yet, Jordan was an all-star every single season he played in, including his rookie year.

Strictly based on skill level, I can argue for Kobe being the best player we've ever seen. Including accomplishments/awards, it's not fair to say that Jordan isn't the clear-cut GOAT.

#86 epicwolf

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Posted August 26, 2013 - 12:46 PM

Do you know why people always put Jordan as the best that ever played the game?  Its very simple. He is the greatest marketability athlete in the history of sports.  Of all sports for that matter.  Thats it.  He is not the best player in the history of sports. There are many players that have better skills than Jordan.  Jordan is not the greatest shooters of all time. Jordan is not the greatest dunker of all time. Jordan is not the greatest passer of all time. Jordan  not even the greatest dribbler of all time. He is not the greatest rebounder of all time.  Jordan probably not even the greatest teamates of all time.  But what Jordan was is the greatest marketer of all time. 

 

Think about how the NBA become popular today.  Bird and Magic thought to be the ones  who  brought the NBA back to life after the 70's horrible tv viewing. In fact, the NBA was about to call it quits in the 70's.  Magic and Bird brought it back. But it didn't really hit the global market as it should. It was great for the east coast and west coast but the people living in central U.S couldn't care less about bird and magic.  Then all of a sudden some guy out of North Corlina hit up the core cities in the U.S.  He wasn't a great player but he was really good at what he do. Nike saw this and took him in. Nike could of had Magic or Bird. But Nike saw this kid who can revolutionized the industry.  NBA is all about selling shoes.  Who here own a converse that magic trying to sell you? Heck we dont even remember what Bird was trying to sell back in the 80's.  But Jordan brought Nike to life.  And Nike was able to bring Jordan to GLOBAL notoriety.  And with a global icon and image like the Air Jordan silhouette we all come to know and love, that was when Jordan becomes a legend.  The 6 championship was great and all but it wasn't the rings that make Jordan a legend. It was the marketability.  The name Jordan is a brand in itself. You dont see people go around saying "Nice kobes you got there" or "hey I nice magic you wearing"  

 

THat is why Kobe Bryant no matter what he do will NEVER be better than Jordan.  Even if he win 7 championship which is very hard right now at his age he will still be behind jordan.  Kobe comes into the league when it is so saturated with stars. He played behind a superstar. Jordan never did. Kobe wasn't in his prime when he won the two back to back championships with Pau. He was in his prime when Shaq was here. That was when Kobe never had injuries. Remember Kobe played injured most of his career. Especially during the Pau gasol championship. 


Edited by epicwolf, August 26, 2013 - 12:48 PM.

MDA is an offensive genius. I hope he sticks to his guns and keeps doing what he does best: Run and Gun. That's the only way to coach.


#87 Real Deal

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Posted August 26, 2013 - 12:53 PM

I'm going to show you something, though...

There are many players that have better skills than Jordan. Jordan is not the greatest shooters of all time. Jordan is not the greatest dunker of all time. Jordan is not the greatest passer of all time. Jordan not even the greatest dribbler of all time. He is not the greatest rebounder of all time. Jordan probably not even the greatest teamates of all time. But what Jordan was is the greatest marketer of all time.

Is Kobe the greatest shooter of all time? No. That's likely Steve Nash.

Is Kobe the greatest dunker of all time? No, that's arguably Vince Carter.

Is Kobe the greatest passer of all time? Nope, has to go to Magic Johnson.

Is Kobe the greatest dribbler of all time? No way. That can be handed to Rafer Alston, Tim Hardaway or Allen Iverson.

Kobe the greatest rebounder? Nah, that goes to Dennis Rodman in the modern era.

How about Kobe being the greatest teammate? Almost everyone will say no to that.

-------

Michael is the GOAT because he did everything great. He had no holes in his game. You combine that with what he accomplished? That's why he tops most lists.

#88 Windu

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Posted August 26, 2013 - 01:07 PM

Michael Jordan is the greatest player I've ever seen in ANY sport. And this is coming from someone who has always said that football is immensely better than basketball. I loved/love watching Joe Montana, Steve Young, Jerry Rice, Randy Moss, Barry Sanders, Adrian Peterson, Peyton Manning, Aaron Rodgers, Calvin Johnson, and etc but NONE of them (not even the great Joe Cool) was more memorable than Michael Jordan. Dude took the SPORTS world by storm and it hasn't been duplicated before nor after him. 


Pau Gasol is GONE


#89 Harry Styles

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Posted August 26, 2013 - 01:08 PM

Do you know why people always put Jordan as the best that ever played the game?  Its very simple. He is the greatest marketability athlete in the history of sports.  Of all sports for that matter.  Thats it.  He is not the best player in the history of sports. There are many players that have better skills than Jordan.  Jordan is not the greatest shooters of all time. Jordan is not the greatest dunker of all time. Jordan is not the greatest passer of all time. Jordan  not even the greatest dribbler of all time. He is not the greatest rebounder of all time.  Jordan probably not even the greatest teamates of all time.  But what Jordan was is the greatest marketer of all time. 

 

Think about how the NBA become popular today.  Bird and Magic thought to be the ones  who  brought the NBA back to life after the 70's horrible tv viewing. In fact, the NBA was about to call it quits in the 70's.  Magic and Bird brought it back. But it didn't really hit the global market as it should. It was great for the east coast and west coast but the people living in central U.S couldn't care less about bird and magic.  Then all of a sudden some guy out of North Corlina hit up the core cities in the U.S.  He wasn't a great player but he was really good at what he do. Nike saw this and took him in. Nike could of had Magic or Bird. But Nike saw this kid who can revolutionized the industry.  NBA is all about selling shoes.  Who here own a converse that magic trying to sell you? Heck we dont even remember what Bird was trying to sell back in the 80's.  But Jordan brought Nike to life.  And Nike was able to bring Jordan to GLOBAL notoriety.  And with a global icon and image like the Air Jordan silhouette we all come to know and love, that was when Jordan becomes a legend.  The 6 championship was great and all but it wasn't the rings that make Jordan a legend. It was the marketability.  The name Jordan is a brand in itself. You dont see people go around saying "Nice kobes you got there" or "hey I nice magic you wearing"  

 

THat is why Kobe Bryant no matter what he do will NEVER be better than Jordan.  Even if he win 7 championship which is very hard right now at his age he will still be behind jordan.  Kobe comes into the league when it is so saturated with stars. He played behind a superstar. Jordan never did. Kobe wasn't in his prime when he won the two back to back championships with Pau. He was in his prime when Shaq was here. That was when Kobe never had injuries. Remember Kobe played injured most of his career. Especially during the Pau gasol championship. 

Way to prove what a Jordan hater you are. The minute you said he wasn't a great player is the minute you should have unplugged your computer and brought it back to Best Buy. Jordan averaged 28 6 6 on 51% shooting his ROOKIE year. Kobe has NEVER done that. Keep slurping that homer juice. 



#90 Mike D'Antoni

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Posted August 26, 2013 - 01:55 PM

Kids kill each other for his shoes. Jordan wins

#91 Mike D'Antoni

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Posted August 26, 2013 - 01:55 PM

All kidding aside. Jordan is the greatest. For Kobe to even be compared to him. Whoa

#92 lakersince75

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Posted August 26, 2013 - 06:03 PM

Youre just another google a stat guy. I wasn't being literal, I was making a point. And yes. Jordans competition at his position wasn't as good as who Kobe faced night in and out. And he damn sure didn't deal with what Kareem had to deal with for almost 20 years. My bad, Jordan was unable to perform at 38. I think Kareem was finals MVP at 38. I'm sure you'll google that. Let me know. I'm going off memory

Anyone can jack 26 shots a game and shoot 45% while doing it?

Wilt Chamberlain (6 times)
Rick Barry (2 times)
Bob McAdoo
Tiny Archibald
Michael Jordan
Elgin Baylor
Kobe Bryant

Everyone else that has shot 26 shots a game, in NBA history, has shot 43% or worse (Allen Iverson, Elvin Hayes, Elgin Baylor a few times, Pete Maravich, to name a few).

Kareem never did it, by the way.

I also don't understand your last statement. You say that anyone can put up 26 shots a night, 45% or better shooting...which is a shot at Kobe Bryant...but then, you say that Jordan didn't have it as bad as Kareem and...Kobe. Laker bias?


Edited by lakersince75, August 26, 2013 - 06:04 PM.


#93 West Coast

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Posted August 26, 2013 - 06:18 PM

Youre just another google a stat guy. I wasn't being literal, I was making a point. And yes. Jordans competition at his position wasn't as good as who Kobe faced night in and out. And he damn sure didn't deal with what Kareem had to deal with for almost 20 years. My bad, Jordan was unable to perform at 38. I think Kareem was finals MVP at 38. I'm sure you'll google that. Let me know. I'm going off memory

 

I'm going to enjoy what comes next

 

3rj18Rv.gif



#94 lakersince75

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Posted August 26, 2013 - 06:33 PM

Exactly!! Kobe will never get a fair shake. Tail end of Jordan and the beginning of LeBron. And that Colorado thing damn sure didn't help. After Kobe walked like Jordan, Talked like Jordan, won like Jordan, he began to threaten a legacy. Nobody liked that. Kobe has been hated since he won the slam dunk contest. It got even worse after his first championship. By the way STATS will never give you the total picture. Rings won't either. If stats were it. Wilt is by far the greatest. If its rings, Russell is the greatest. Kareem had both while waiting on the ball. Again Robert Horry has more rings than The Dream, Barkley, Ewing, Malone, Stockton and Nash combined. So Really? Most of these guys on this site think you can use stats and google to figure it out. You really had to be there and watch night in and out to really understand Greatness and Impact. I agree with you 100%

Do you know why people always put Jordan as the best that ever played the game?  Its very simple. He is the greatest marketability athlete in the history of sports.  Of all sports for that matter.  Thats it.  He is not the best player in the history of sports. There are many players that have better skills than Jordan.  Jordan is not the greatest shooters of all time. Jordan is not the greatest dunker of all time. Jordan is not the greatest passer of all time. Jordan  not even the greatest dribbler of all time. He is not the greatest rebounder of all time.  Jordan probably not even the greatest teamates of all time.  But what Jordan was is the greatest marketer of all time. 

 

Think about how the NBA become popular today.  Bird and Magic thought to be the ones  who  brought the NBA back to life after the 70's horrible tv viewing. In fact, the NBA was about to call it quits in the 70's.  Magic and Bird brought it back. But it didn't really hit the global market as it should. It was great for the east coast and west coast but the people living in central U.S couldn't care less about bird and magic.  Then all of a sudden some guy out of North Corlina hit up the core cities in the U.S.  He wasn't a great player but he was really good at what he do. Nike saw this and took him in. Nike could of had Magic or Bird. But Nike saw this kid who can revolutionized the industry.  NBA is all about selling shoes.  Who here own a converse that magic trying to sell you? Heck we dont even remember what Bird was trying to sell back in the 80's.  But Jordan brought Nike to life.  And Nike was able to bring Jordan to GLOBAL notoriety.  And with a global icon and image like the Air Jordan silhouette we all come to know and love, that was when Jordan becomes a legend.  The 6 championship was great and all but it wasn't the rings that make Jordan a legend. It was the marketability.  The name Jordan is a brand in itself. You dont see people go around saying "Nice kobes you got there" or "hey I nice magic you wearing"  

 

THat is why Kobe Bryant no matter what he do will NEVER be better than Jordan.  Even if he win 7 championship which is very hard right now at his age he will still be behind jordan.  Kobe comes into the league when it is so saturated with stars. He played behind a superstar. Jordan never did. Kobe wasn't in his prime when he won the two back to back championships with Pau. He was in his prime when Shaq was here. That was when Kobe never had injuries. Remember Kobe played injured most of his career. Especially during the Pau gasol championship. 


Edited by lakersince75, August 26, 2013 - 06:49 PM.


#95 LakeShow805

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Posted August 26, 2013 - 07:43 PM

Youre just another google a stat guy. I wasn't being literal, I was making a point. And yes. Jordans competition at his position wasn't as good as who Kobe faced night in and out. And he damn sure didn't deal with what Kareem had to deal with for almost 20 years. My bad, Jordan was unable to perform at 38. I think Kareem was finals MVP at 38. I'm sure you'll google that. Let me know. I'm going off memory

google a stat guy

tumblr_m0j22koe9d1qzoa2oo1_500.gif


Edited by LakeShow805, August 26, 2013 - 07:44 PM.


#96 Harry Styles

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Posted August 26, 2013 - 07:45 PM

Youre just another google a stat guy. I wasn't being literal, I was making a point. And yes. Jordans competition at his position wasn't as good as who Kobe faced night in and out. And he damn sure didn't deal with what Kareem had to deal with for almost 20 years. My bad, Jordan was unable to perform at 38. I think Kareem was finals MVP at 38. I'm sure you'll google that. Let me know. I'm going off memory

Jordan faced Drexler, Miller, Gervin. Kobe faced Wade and Iverson. Don't see how Jordan's competition wasn't as good. 



#97 Yellow_Evan

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Posted August 26, 2013 - 07:49 PM

Exactly!! Kobe will never get a fair shake. Tail end of Jordan and the beginning of LeBron. And that Colorado thing damn sure didn't help. After Kobe walked like Jordan, Talked like Jordan, won like Jordan, he began to threaten a legacy. Nobody liked that. Kobe has been hated since he won the slam dunk contest. It got even worse after his first championship. By the way STATS will never give you the total picture. Rings won't either. If stats were it. Wilt is by far the greatest. If its rings, Russell is the greatest. Kareem had both while waiting on the ball. Again Robert Horry has more rings than The Dream, Barkley, Ewing, Malone, Stockton and Nash combined. So Really? Most of these guys on this site think you can use stats and google to figure it out. You really had to be there and watch night in and out to really understand Greatness and Impact. I agree with you 100%

 

 

Do you know why people always put Jordan as the best that ever played the game?  Its very simple. He is the greatest marketability athlete in the history of sports.  Of all sports for that matter.  Thats it.  He is not the best player in the history of sports. There are many players that have better skills than Jordan.  Jordan is not the greatest shooters of all time. Jordan is not the greatest dunker of all time. Jordan is not the greatest passer of all time. Jordan  not even the greatest dribbler of all time. He is not the greatest rebounder of all time.  Jordan probably not even the greatest teamates of all time.  But what Jordan was is the greatest marketer of all time. 

 

Think about how the NBA become popular today.  Bird and Magic thought to be the ones  who  brought the NBA back to life after the 70's horrible tv viewing. In fact, the NBA was about to call it quits in the 70's.  Magic and Bird brought it back. But it didn't really hit the global market as it should. It was great for the east coast and west coast but the people living in central U.S couldn't care less about bird and magic.  Then all of a sudden some guy out of North Corlina hit up the core cities in the U.S.  He wasn't a great player but he was really good at what he do. Nike saw this and took him in. Nike could of had Magic or Bird. But Nike saw this kid who can revolutionized the industry.  NBA is all about selling shoes.  Who here own a converse that magic trying to sell you? Heck we dont even remember what Bird was trying to sell back in the 80's.  But Jordan brought Nike to life.  And Nike was able to bring Jordan to GLOBAL notoriety.  And with a global icon and image like the Air Jordan silhouette we all come to know and love, that was when Jordan becomes a legend.  The 6 championship was great and all but it wasn't the rings that make Jordan a legend. It was the marketability.  The name Jordan is a brand in itself. You dont see people go around saying "Nice kobes you got there" or "hey I nice magic you wearing"  

 

THat is why Kobe Bryant no matter what he do will NEVER be better than Jordan.  Even if he win 7 championship which is very hard right now at his age he will still be behind jordan.  Kobe comes into the league when it is so saturated with stars. He played behind a superstar. Jordan never did. Kobe wasn't in his prime when he won the two back to back championships with Pau. He was in his prime when Shaq was here. That was when Kobe never had injuries. Remember Kobe played injured most of his career. Especially during the Pau gasol championship. 

 

Both of you got it right on the head. Is Kobe the greatest? Maybe. Is he considered the greatest? No, and for reasons above never will.



#98 BasketballIQ

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Posted August 26, 2013 - 08:51 PM

Jordan faced Drexler, Miller, Gervin. Kobe faced Wade, Iverson, Vince Carter and Ray Allen. Don't see how Jordan's competition wasn't as good. 

Fixed

 

 

But I think the league has a bigger talent pool of great Euro players and  South American players and MJ created Kobe who created a ton of SUPER dedicated players and every year there is a new crop of players to step up.

 

 

Harden and Klay thompson stepped up at the SG position this season, as did Paul George and Kawhi Leonard at the SF positions.



#99 Majesty

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Posted August 26, 2013 - 08:52 PM

Kobe also faced the greatest defensive teams in NBA history but that's another subject.


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#100 Red September

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Posted August 26, 2013 - 09:32 PM

When everything comes to end of Kobe's career

The list will be:

Jordan
Kareem
Kobe
Wilt
Magic
Bird
Shaq
Russel
Hakeem
Duncan


Top 10.

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