Jump to content




Photo

ESPN Numbers Never Lie: Michael Jordan Vs. Kobe - Would Six Rings Put Kobe On Jordan's Level?


  • Please log in to reply
169 replies to this topic

#41 Jody Smokes

Jody Smokes

    All-Star

  • 5,758 posts
  • Joined: Jun 01, 2013
  • Fan Since:2003
  • Fav. Laker:Kobe

Posted August 22, 2013 - 08:10 AM

In regards to who? Wilt was 3 years from retirement in KAJ rookie year...


does that make much of a difference with Kobe?


"Blake and Parker are good at canceling each other out till our bench point guard comes in"  - Majesty aka Bird Ish (12/4/13)


#42 Yellow_Evan

Yellow_Evan

    Rookie

  • 863 posts
  • Joined: Jul 02, 2013
  • Fan Since:2002
  • Fav. Laker:Kobe

Posted August 22, 2013 - 08:20 AM

Bullcrap. If he winds a 6th ring, he is as good as MJ..

 

At the end of his career it is likely:

Kobe has scored more points than him

Kobe has scored more points in a game than MJ

So, that cancels out the better defense/more MVP's



#43 Ham

Ham

    Rap Enthusiast

  • 6,551 posts
  • Joined: Jul 10, 2012
  • Fan Since:Showtime
  • Fav. Laker:Magic Johnson, Kobe Bryant

Posted August 22, 2013 - 08:36 AM

What proof do you have of this? I can probably bet every dollar I have you have never seen a game with them playing against each other.  Not saying it didn't happen at some point but you can't state that as a fact. 

lol look up there stats vs each other. google wilt vs kareem on google and figure it out yourself.  :laughing: also go on youtube and watch videos on kareem vs wilt. its a fact. even wilt admitted that he couldn't guard kareem because of his skyhook. in fact, he only blocked kareem sky hook once i believe, which is still amazing cause that shot is impossible to block.

 

wilt trumped all those puny centers in his decade. when kareem came through, he had it coming.

 

watch this if you guys haven't

 

KAJ career > MJ's


Edited by Ham, August 22, 2013 - 08:42 AM.

Mike D'Antoni is GARBAGE.


#44 LakeShow805

LakeShow805

    Superstar

  • 7,468 posts
  • Joined: Jun 13, 2011
  • Location:Cali
  • Name:Tyler
  • Fan Since:2000
  • Fav. Laker:The mamba

Posted August 22, 2013 - 09:22 AM

lol look up there stats vs each other. google wilt vs kareem on google and figure it out yourself.  :laughing: also go on youtube and watch videos on kareem vs wilt. its a fact. even wilt admitted that he couldn't guard kareem because of his skyhook. in fact, he only blocked kareem sky hook once i believe, which is still amazing cause that shot is impossible to block.

 

wilt trumped all those puny centers in his decade. when kareem came through, he had it coming.

 

watch this if you guys haven't

 

KAJ career > MJ's

Wilt blocked the [expletive] out of Kareem's skyhook a good amount. And don't say in fact and I believe in the same statement...it doesn't make since.

 

Heres there averages from their head to head matches.

 

Chamberlain: 16.1 rpg, 18.2 rpg, 3.4 apg on 52.6 %FG/48.6 %FT/53.1 %TS

 

Abdul-Jabbar: 31.0 ppg, 16.4 rpg, 3.9 apg on 46.4 %FG/71.6 %FT/49.1 %TS

 

Their first head to head matchup was when Chamberlin was 33 and KAJ was 22.....their last match up,  Wilt was 36 and KaJ was 25.

 

Chamberlain was in the twilight years of his career, while KAJ was the new star in the league. Wilt holds Kareem to the lowest fg% anyone has against KAJ in head 2 heads.

 

I would pick a prime Wilt over KAJ in a head 2 head matchup.



#45 Jody Smokes

Jody Smokes

    All-Star

  • 5,758 posts
  • Joined: Jun 01, 2013
  • Fan Since:2003
  • Fav. Laker:Kobe

Posted August 22, 2013 - 09:55 AM

Guys will say that KAJ>MJ but in the same breath say Kobe or Magic is the greatest Laker of all time.  Logic exposed. 


"Blake and Parker are good at canceling each other out till our bench point guard comes in"  - Majesty aka Bird Ish (12/4/13)


#46 LakeShow805

LakeShow805

    Superstar

  • 7,468 posts
  • Joined: Jun 13, 2011
  • Location:Cali
  • Name:Tyler
  • Fan Since:2000
  • Fav. Laker:The mamba

Posted August 22, 2013 - 10:11 AM

Guys will say that KAJ>MJ but in the same breath say Kobe or Magic is the greatest Laker of all time.  Logic exposed. 

KAJ didn't play for the Lakers his entire career....thats why



#47 Scooter123

Scooter123

    Rookie

  • 297 posts
  • Joined: Jan 09, 2013
  • Fan Since:1966
  • Fav. Laker:Jerry West

Posted August 22, 2013 - 10:23 AM

I just don't see an MVP or a NBA Champtionship in Kobe's future.  Father Time has caught up with Kobe. 



#48 LakeShow805

LakeShow805

    Superstar

  • 7,468 posts
  • Joined: Jun 13, 2011
  • Location:Cali
  • Name:Tyler
  • Fan Since:2000
  • Fav. Laker:The mamba

Posted August 22, 2013 - 10:29 AM

I just don't see an MVP or a NBA Champtionship in Kobe's future.  Father Time has caught up with Kobe. 

27/5/4........Father time still has some distance to go.



#49 Clutch Factor

Clutch Factor

    Starter

  • 5,376 posts
  • Joined: Jul 29, 2013
  • Fav. Laker:Kobe Bryant

Posted August 22, 2013 - 11:06 AM

Six rings would put Kobe on Jordan's level, but sadly he won't be able to surpass him. Winning a sixth ring at the age of 35+ after a torn Achilles is a feat perhaps no man will ever be able to accomplish. 

 

Sometimes, you have to leave stats out of the conversation. Both players played in different eras, played with different teammates, and played against different competition. The popular trend nowadays is building superteams composed of immense talent, so it's quite difficult for a player himself to lead an average team to contend. 

 

Based on an individual's drive and mentality, Kobe is on Jordan's level and perhaps now even beyond it. 

However, Jordan was 6-0 in the Finals. He was the best player on each trip which resulted in 6 Finals MVPs.

He was the more efficient shooter. He was a much better defender.

 

In Kobe's defense, one can't blame him for his predestined landing with Shaq and the Lakers. It's difficult to compare centers and perimeter players, but Kobe did score an ample amount and was often called upon in clutch situations. Jordan had a roster filled with more capable shooters.

 

Honestly, I find comparing the two players extremely difficult. Anyone can bring up Jordan's undefeated Finals and his Finals MVPs, but there are so many more intangibles one must consider.



#50 Windu

Windu

    Shatterpoint

  • 43,092 posts
  • Joined: Apr 24, 2009
  • Name:Will
  • Fan Since:1999
  • Fav. Laker:Kobe

Posted August 22, 2013 - 11:17 AM

KAJ career > MJ's

 

NBA career? I don't know about all that.

 

Championships:

MJ = 6

KAJ = 6

 

PUSH

 

MVPs:

KAJ = 6

MJ = 5

 

Advantage KAJ

 

Finals MVPs:

MJ = 6

KAJ = 2

 

Advantage MJ

 

All Star Selections:

KAJ: 19

MJ: 14

 

Advantage KAJ

 

All NBA 1st Team Selections:

MJ: 10

KAJ: 10

 

PUSH

 

NBA All Defensive 1st Team Selections:

MJ: 9

KAJ: 5

 

Advantage MJ

 

Scoring Titles:

MJ: 10

KAJ: 2

 

Advantage MJ

 

MJ has a DPOY award...Kareem has a rebounding title. 

MJ was a 3x Steals Champion...Kareem was a 4x Blocks Champion

 

Their accolades (and amount of) are pretty comparable.


Pau Gasol is GONE


#51 Majesty

Majesty

    Grats on making the Raiderettes cuzzo!!

  • 37,050 posts
  • Joined: Dec 11, 2011
  • Name:Jay
  • Fan Since:1987
  • Fav. Laker:Kobe present, Magic past

Posted August 22, 2013 - 11:29 AM

NBA career? I don't know about all that.

 

Championships:

MJ = 6

KAJ = 6

 

PUSH

 

MVPs:

KAJ = 6

MJ = 5

 

Advantage KAJ

 

Finals MVPs:

MJ = 6

KAJ = 2

 

Advantage MJ

 

All Star Selections:

KAJ: 19

MJ: 14

 

Advantage KAJ

 

All NBA 1st Team Selections:

MJ: 10

KAJ: 10

 

PUSH

 

NBA All Defensive 1st Team Selections:

MJ: 9

KAJ: 5

 

Advantage MJ

 

Scoring Titles:

MJ: 10

KAJ: 2

 

Advantage MJ

 

MJ has a DPOY award...Kareem has a rebounding title. 

MJ was a 3x Steals Champion...Kareem was a 4x Blocks Champion

 

Their accolades (and amount of) are pretty comparable.


30bfnm0.jpg

The GOAT debate should currently be KaJ or MJ.   They are the two closest right now.


Edited by Majesty, August 22, 2013 - 11:30 AM.

Is Wayne Brady gonna have to Djokovic? - Robert Flores 


#52 Windu

Windu

    Shatterpoint

  • 43,092 posts
  • Joined: Apr 24, 2009
  • Name:Will
  • Fan Since:1999
  • Fav. Laker:Kobe

Posted August 22, 2013 - 11:44 AM

I'm not sure if I'd even put Kareem over Kobe


Pau Gasol is GONE


#53 Real Deal

Real Deal

    Legend

  • 14,868 posts
  • Joined: Jun 29, 2008
  • Location:Kansas
  • Name:Brandon
  • Fav. Laker:Kobe

Posted August 22, 2013 - 02:46 PM

I'm not sure if I'd even put Kareem over Kobe

As a Laker, no...but over the course of their careers, you have to.

Also, Wilt may have been a better overall player than Kareem. People argue this. I've talked to quite a few older guys, well into their 60s and 70s, who had the privilege of watching both while they were young.

These guys will also tell you that Bill Russell was an athletic freak of nature, by the way.

Greatness is measured in overall abilities PLUS achievements, though.  That's where Kareem trumps Wilt almost in the same way Jordan does Kobe (although, there's no question that Jordan is the best overall player to play this game).



#54 Windu

Windu

    Shatterpoint

  • 43,092 posts
  • Joined: Apr 24, 2009
  • Name:Will
  • Fan Since:1999
  • Fav. Laker:Kobe

Posted August 22, 2013 - 04:39 PM

A biased opinion if there ever was one because I'm not old enough to have seen Kareem play. 


Pau Gasol is GONE


#55 Ham

Ham

    Rap Enthusiast

  • 6,551 posts
  • Joined: Jul 10, 2012
  • Fan Since:Showtime
  • Fav. Laker:Magic Johnson, Kobe Bryant

Posted August 22, 2013 - 04:45 PM

Wilt blocked the [expletive] out of Kareem's skyhook a good amount. And don't say in fact and I believe in the same statement...it doesn't make since.

Heres there averages from their head to head matches.

Chamberlain: 16.1 rpg, 18.2 rpg, 3.4 apg on 52.6 %FG/48.6 %FT/53.1 %TS

Abdul-Jabbar: 31.0 ppg, 16.4 rpg, 3.9 apg on 46.4 %FG/71.6 %FT/49.1 %TS

Their first head to head matchup was when Chamberlin was 33 and KAJ was 22.....their last match up, Wilt was 36 and KaJ was 25.

Chamberlain was in the twilight years of his career, while KAJ was the new star in the league. Wilt holds Kareem to the lowest fg% anyone has against KAJ in head 2 heads.

I would pick a prime Wilt over KAJ in a head 2 head matchup.

Damn we got the grammar police here. I've only seen one instance where Wilt blocked his sky hook. So idk much about that.

We compare Present Kobe to Prime Lebron all the time yet we have problems comparing Twilight Wilt with KAJ?

Wilt got destroyed when they went head-to-head thoswe stats just proved my point. We will never know how KAJ stacks up against Wilt's Prime. But he would've killed him on offense. Kareem was not guardable. idk about defense.

Lmfao

KAJ and MJ both have there arguments career-wise for the GOAT title. Some people knock off KAJ completely and forget what he did in his career.

Edited by Ham, August 22, 2013 - 04:46 PM.

Mike D'Antoni is GARBAGE.


#56 LakeShow805

LakeShow805

    Superstar

  • 7,468 posts
  • Joined: Jun 13, 2011
  • Location:Cali
  • Name:Tyler
  • Fan Since:2000
  • Fav. Laker:The mamba

Posted August 22, 2013 - 06:28 PM

Damn we got the grammar police here. I've only seen one instance where Wilt blocked his sky hook. So idk much about that.

We compare Present Kobe to Prime Lebron all the time yet we have problems comparing Twilight Wilt with KAJ?

Wilt got destroyed when they went head-to-head thoswe stats just proved my point. We will never know how KAJ stacks up against Wilt's Prime. But he would've killed him on offense. Kareem was not guardable. idk about defense.

Lmfao

KAJ and MJ both have there arguments career-wise for the GOAT title. Some people knock off KAJ completely and forget what he did in his career.

Yea and who comes out on top right now.....LeBron. But whos a better player in their prime?...IMO Kobe.

 

The only thing he got killed on was scoring. However, he still held KAJ to under 50% shooting while he was above 50% shooting.

 

A prime Wilt would do a better job guarding KAJ than a prime KAJ guarding a prime Wilt.



#57 Ham

Ham

    Rap Enthusiast

  • 6,551 posts
  • Joined: Jul 10, 2012
  • Fan Since:Showtime
  • Fav. Laker:Magic Johnson, Kobe Bryant

Posted August 22, 2013 - 09:00 PM

Yea and who comes out on top right now.....LeBron. But whos a better player in their prime?...IMO Kobe.

The only thing he got killed on was scoring. However, he still held KAJ to under 50% shooting while he was above 50% shooting.

A prime Wilt would do a better job guarding KAJ than a prime KAJ guarding a prime Wilt.

He gave up 31 ppg... Never knew being at 46% mattered when your scoring 30+

Edited by Ham, August 22, 2013 - 09:03 PM.

Mike D'Antoni is GARBAGE.


#58 LakeShow805

LakeShow805

    Superstar

  • 7,468 posts
  • Joined: Jun 13, 2011
  • Location:Cali
  • Name:Tyler
  • Fan Since:2000
  • Fav. Laker:The mamba

Posted August 23, 2013 - 07:58 AM

He gave up 31 ppg... Never knew being at 46% mattered when your scoring 30+

He also wasn't in his prime but still impressive because he  holds up to the lowest fg% out of any other center going head to head with him.

 

IMO, Prime Wilt beats Kareem head to head.



#59 Yellow_Evan

Yellow_Evan

    Rookie

  • 863 posts
  • Joined: Jul 02, 2013
  • Fan Since:2002
  • Fav. Laker:Kobe

Posted August 23, 2013 - 10:28 AM

Kobe is better than KAJ and Wilt. Koe is a much better compeditor

 

I think Kobe should be considered as good as MJ If he wins a title this year. In order for him to do that, he would have to score like 35 points a game at the age of (now) 35.  



#60 BlueJab23

BlueJab23

    Rookie

  • 471 posts
  • Joined: Jul 10, 2012
  • Fan Since:Not a Fan
  • Fav. Laker:Not a Fan

Posted August 23, 2013 - 11:04 AM

Kobe is better than KAJ and Wilt. Koe is a much better compeditor

 

I think Kobe should be considered as good as MJ If he wins a title this year. In order for him to do that, he would have to score like 35 points a game at the age of (now) 35.  

 

MJ is always going to be the GOAT. He never lost any NBA finals at all. No matter what happens Kobe will never be as good as Kobe. Unless he somehow wins 3 more rings and grab 3 more FMVP and 2 regular MVP then I would consider Kobe better than MJ.






1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users