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Who's Better?

Kobe Lebron

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#41 Harry Styles

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Posted August 17, 2013 - 05:20 PM


Just to play advocate with you Harry as it seems we always seem to do... ;)

Kobe has a better jump shot then Jordan.

Zone wasn't allowed in Jordan's era, Kobe averaged 35ppg against a zone and better defensive schemes than Jordan ever faced in the era he was in.  Back in that era you legitimately had to double team or it was illegal, this allowed Jordan to set up those teammates and Kobe drew more defensive attention than anyone not named Wilt, and Shaq. While in Jordan's era in the 1980s and early 1990s the TOP defensive squads regularly surrendered upwards of 100 points per game because of the schemes and rules about defense.   

Kobe faced better defensive schemes than Jordan ever did and was even more feared than he was in them.   Like I said, not since Wilt nor Shaq has anyone ever demanded such defensive attention as Kobe, and in the era he came up in and the defenses schemed for it the fact he could get a shot whenever he wanted on THOSE defensive schemes is even more mind blowing then watching Jordan do it in his day when you consider the defenses they both played against.


Not to mention despite this Kobe I believe has more assists in his career than Jordan I believe.

The reality is if Kobe remains healthy the only numbers Jordan will have over Kobe will be steals and blocks, but Kobe will eclipse him in points(playoff and season), rebounds and assists.

Kobe knows this, that's why he wants that 6th ring.

Because if Kobe finishes his career with 6 rings,more points(season and playoffs), rebounds, assists than Jordan...  

That makes the debate that much more interesting.    Jordan will be known as the better defender though.  But if Kobe surpasses him in every other category and ties him in rings...then the debate goes from Kobe being "knocking on the door" to Kobe "unlocking it and living inside the house"

But then it will just be argued that Jordan accomplished all he did in a shorter time than Kobe did. They'll argue Jordan was more efficient and shot less than Kobe did to achieve his stats. And it would be a valid argument.



#42 Jay Cee

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Posted August 17, 2013 - 05:33 PM

Lebron has very similar numbers to Larry Bird actually. Nobody ever compares those two, I think because generally; great white player is to Bird, as great black player is to Jordan. Just human nature. Statistically, Lebron is more like Bird than MJ though. Plays more like him too, but he has more athleticism of course.

Kobe plays exactly like Jordan. Wasn't blessed with some of Jordan's physical gifts, but shoots a higher percentage from 3 (and I think the free throw line as well but don't quote me on that). Jordan was a better defender though, no question. Kobe has a few things he does better than Jordan ever did, but Jordan is still way ahead of Kobe overall. Statistically, Kobe will never be able to pass MJ. He can pass him in totals, but only because he's played so much more.

#43 Jody Smokes

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Posted August 17, 2013 - 05:49 PM

As much as I love Kobe the MJ ish needs to be deaded and quickly.  Kobe is going into season 18 and still hasn't passed MJ in what he did in what? 13.25 seasons?


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#44 zombeef

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Posted August 17, 2013 - 05:54 PM

No matter how many times the Kobe vs. MJ discussion surfaces here, Dwight will always be a winner. 



#45 Harry Styles

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Posted August 17, 2013 - 06:05 PM

Lebron has very similar numbers to Larry Bird actually. Nobody ever compares those two, I think because generally; great white player is to Bird, as great black player is to Jordan. Just human nature. Statistically, Lebron is more like Bird than MJ though. Plays more like him too, but he has more athleticism of course.

Kobe plays exactly like Jordan. Wasn't blessed with some of Jordan's physical gifts, but shoots a higher percentage from 3 (and I think the free throw line as well but don't quote me on that). Jordan was a better defender though, no question. Kobe has a few things he does better than Jordan ever did, but Jordan is still way ahead of Kobe overall. Statistically, Kobe will never be able to pass MJ. He can pass him in totals, but only because he's played so much more.

This...



#46 Majesty

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Posted August 17, 2013 - 06:06 PM

As much as I love Kobe the MJ ish needs to be deaded and quickly.  Kobe is going into season 18 and still hasn't passed MJ in what he did in what? 13.25 seasons?


If Kobe wasn't buried on the bench by Del Harris for 2 seasons and instead was made the primary offensive option from his rookie year onwards as Jordan was he'd have passed Jordan a while ago ;)


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#47 Harry Styles

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Posted August 17, 2013 - 07:53 PM


If Kobe wasn't buried on the bench by Del Harris for 2 seasons and instead was made the primary offensive option from his rookie year onwards as Jordan was he'd have passed Jordan a while ago ;)

If Jordan wasn't injured his second year or didn't retire in the prime of his career, he would probably be the all-time leading scorer. But that didn't happen, so what-ifs mean nothing. 



#48 Jody Smokes

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Posted August 17, 2013 - 08:06 PM

No he wouldnt have.  Kobe wasn't good enough his first 2 years to even make that huge of an impact.  Lets say he does get more playing time.  You really want to make the argument that Kobe was robbed out of 4.75 years worth of production because of not starting at 17 and playing with Shaq?

 

MJ>>>Kobe and its not really even up for discussion.  MJ led his teams to Finals 6 for 6.  MJ is the GOAT.  Kobe is a debatable top 5.


If Kobe wasn't buried on the bench by Del Harris for 2 seasons and instead was made the primary offensive option from his rookie year onwards as Jordan was he'd have passed Jordan a while ago ;)


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#49 Mike D'Antoni

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Posted August 17, 2013 - 08:12 PM

Kareem,magic, Michael, Kobe, wilt

#50 Majesty

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Posted August 17, 2013 - 08:18 PM

No he wouldnt have.  Kobe wasn't good enough his first 2 years to even make that huge of an impact.  Lets say he does get more playing time.  You really want to make the argument that Kobe was robbed out of 4.75 years worth of production because of not starting at 17 and playing with Shaq?

 

MJ>>>Kobe and its not really even up for discussion.  MJ led his teams to Finals 6 for 6.  MJ is the GOAT.  Kobe is a debatable top 5.



When Kobe was playing off the bench when Del harris was playing him like a glorified sixth man he averaged 15 points a game.  

He's only 675 points behind Jordan NOW.
If Kobe scored even15 ppg in at LEAST 45 games of his rookie season he'd have already passed Jordan a while ago.  :smh:
To act like if Kobe wasn't thrown into the league as the primary offensive option that he wouldn't have passed Jordan a while ago is asinine.

Kobe was ready, Del Harris is just an idiot that thought Kobe either didn't deserve to play or should have been a sixth man, but Kobe by 19 was already ahead of people that are deemed Superstars at "24" nowadays.    To try to say that Kobe just "wasn't good enough" to start on that Lakers team he was drafted onto is a desperate reach by someone who doesn't want to give credit where it belongs nor cast blame where it should be cast.  Del was an idiot, you've already tried this same debate in another thread and I tore it apart then as well, so no need to rehash what has already been proven wrong but you're trying to recycle as if it somehow is legitimate now.  End of story.

Let it go.

 


Edited by Majesty, August 17, 2013 - 08:21 PM.

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#51 zombeef

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Posted August 17, 2013 - 09:33 PM

 This is why threads like these are a bad idea. 



#52 LakeShow805

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Posted August 18, 2013 - 06:51 AM

As much as I love Kobe the MJ ish needs to be deaded and quickly.  Kobe is going into season 18 and still hasn't passed MJ in what he did in what? 13.25 seasons?

Purely basketball skillset, Kobe is right there with Jordan.

 

buts it w/e, you said Kobe in his prime isn't better than LeBron  :smh:


Edited by LakeShow805, August 18, 2013 - 06:53 AM.

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#53 Jody Smokes

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Posted August 18, 2013 - 07:35 AM

You have a hard time reading my statement don't you.  If you look up a few I've said that Kobe is actually skillwise MORE ADVANCED THAN MICHAEL JEFFREY JORDAN.  In MY opinion I do not I REPEAT do not think that prime Kobe is better than prime Lebron OR vice versa.  They are/were two different players with 2 different paths and styles of play.  Appreciate both guys for what they bring to the game.  Also Kobe is my fav of all time.  Probably the last time I'll address this.

Purely basketball skillset, Kobe is right there with Jordan.

 

buts it w/e, you said Kobe in his prime isn't better than LeBron  :smh:


"Blake and Parker are good at canceling each other out till our bench point guard comes in"  - Majesty aka Bird Ish (12/4/13)


#54 BasketballIQ

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Posted August 18, 2013 - 07:39 AM

Jody.

If Kobe was good enough to start as a rookie and do what all these guys do know, which is stat pad for their first 6-7 years on teams not built to win, then why was he able to dominate the Rook-Soph game?

You think Nash couldn't have stat padded early? Parker? Harden?

#55 Windu

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Posted August 18, 2013 - 08:56 AM

Prime Kobe murders Lebron


Edited by Windu, August 18, 2013 - 08:56 AM.

Pau Gasol is GONE


#56 Ham

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Posted August 18, 2013 - 09:48 AM

Prime Kobe murders Lebron

lol way more than that.


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#57 Piston Honda

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Posted August 18, 2013 - 09:56 AM

 MJ is the GOAT.

 

 In MY opinion I do not I REPEAT do not think that prime Kobe is better than prime Lebron OR vice versa.  They are/were two different players with 2 different paths and styles of play. 

 

How do you claim Jordan is the GOAT and then go on to say we can't compare Kobe and LeBron because they play 2 different styles?


Edited by Piston Honda, August 18, 2013 - 09:56 AM.


#58 LakeShow805

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Posted August 18, 2013 - 10:00 AM

You have a hard time reading my statement don't you.  If you look up a few I've said that Kobe is actually skillwise MORE ADVANCED THAN MICHAEL JEFFREY JORDAN.  In MY opinion I do not I REPEAT do not think that prime Kobe is better than prime Lebron OR vice versa.  They are/were two different players with 2 different paths and styles of play.  Appreciate both guys for what they bring to the game.  Also Kobe is my fav of all time.  Probably the last time I'll address this.

Oh didn't see that but I mean agree with your statements then. MJ is better Nba career wise and Kobe will not catch him( most likely) but Kobe is very close to him skill wise.

 

LeBron and Kobe are different but they have similarities and can be compared. Kobe was a better basketball player in his prime than LeBron has been so far in his prime.

 

And you don't have to say Kobe is your fav everytime bro.


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#59 RobBlake

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Posted August 18, 2013 - 10:59 AM

I wonder what MJ stat line would be if he had Shaq. Pretty sure he would have as much points as he does now


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#60 Ham

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Posted August 19, 2013 - 06:21 AM

I wonder what MJ stat line would be if he had Shaq. Pretty sure he would have as much points as he does now

If MJ has Shaq, he would be about the same as Kobe career-wise. Pippen is no Shaq


Edited by Ham, August 19, 2013 - 06:22 AM.

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