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Who's Better?

Kobe Lebron

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#21 Drift

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Posted August 17, 2013 - 09:15 AM

Im a huge Kobe fan, but I must say that Lebron is a great player.

 

If it's scoring and defense, Kobe is far superior.

 

but if you add in passing, rebounding, then its Lebron and it isn't even close. the Rebounding is probably negated due to how Lebron plays.

 

MJ will always be the best player that has ever played the game.

 

MJ dominated the game just like Michael Phelps dominated swimming


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#22 Windu

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Posted August 17, 2013 - 09:17 AM

This thread is exactly what LN needed because there's never been a KB vs LBJ vs MJ thread here before.

 

lol


Pau Gasol is GONE


#23 Mike D'Antoni

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Posted August 17, 2013 - 09:20 AM

One thing about lebron. He relies so much on his physical attributes. It's good when you're in your 20's. but how well can he transition into his 30's? His jumper isn't as deadly as many think. It's improved greatly. But on a night where he can't get anything in the paint he won't have his perimeter game to fall back on. Lebron is a walking mismatch against anyone in the world yet he fails to realize that. He can't out smart people the way Jordan or Kobe can do. I don't hate on any player. But I don't think lebron will have the success Kobe and MJ had in their 30's.

#24 rnr

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Posted August 17, 2013 - 09:36 AM

Jody you have hit it right on the nail.. Kobe is very MJ esque.. and we al knew that.. and there's proof.. See Vid..
 
If you all haven't seen this...This is a must see. I've had this in my archive for some time now
and every time I go back to see this, its just amaze me the greatness of MJ..but that's not the greatness here.
 
IMHO this is the greatness here, just mind blowing is what Kobe has done watching tape and everything on MJ and not only that,to go on the floor then emulate verbatim of MJ...
 
Theirs two hard facts here,(1) hours and hours,days after days,month after month,year after year of tape and (2)  To go out physically to perform like this esque MJ. What Kobe has done..to me this show kobe's true greatness..
 
No one can emulate the sky hook,But what Kobe has done to emulate MJ..Is the closes thing to it.....Get my drift!... Nuff Said..
 
If you all have tried to emulate someone,then you know how difficult it can be,Its nearly impossible.
 
See for yourself in Vid below and you be the judge..
 
Must see..Again and Again..Also give the guy who did this Vid some props...Amazing footage..
 
Kobe Bryant vs Michael Jordan - Identical Plays..
 

Edited by rnr, August 17, 2013 - 09:39 AM.


#25 Harry Styles

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Posted August 17, 2013 - 09:36 AM

Harry stop lying u loved to be touched by your one direction pals

Uhh, what the hell are you talking about? Lay off the glue buddy. 



#26 LakeShow805

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Posted August 17, 2013 - 09:48 AM

Im a huge Kobe fan, but I must say that Lebron is a great player.

 

If it's scoring and defense, Kobe is far superior.

 

but if you add in passing, rebounding, then its Lebron and it isn't even close. the Rebounding is probably negated due to how Lebron plays.

 

MJ will always be the best player that has ever played the game.

 

MJ dominated the game just like Michael Phelps dominated swimming

In their primes, Kobe is a greater player



#27 BlueJab23

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Posted August 17, 2013 - 10:57 AM



No Slam Dunk contest, so many clutch failures.
 

 

Clutch failures? Other than the dallas series what else do you consider clutch failures?



#28 citr92

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Posted August 17, 2013 - 12:09 PM

don't think i've ever seen lebron drag his team to the playoffs...



#29 Jody Smokes

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Posted August 17, 2013 - 12:10 PM

I've had to learn to ignore anything basketballIQ(yea the irony) says...

Clutch failures? Other than the dallas series what else do you consider clutch failures?


"Blake and Parker are good at canceling each other out till our bench point guard comes in"  - Majesty aka Bird Ish (12/4/13)


#30 BasketballIQ

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Posted August 17, 2013 - 02:19 PM

Clutch failures? Other than the dallas series what else do you consider clutch failures?

The Boston series the year before where he was no longer the freight train he had been all season. His energy changed. It wasnt just that Boston was better. It was that LeBron shrunk.

In the first game of that series, I remember Mo Williams distinctively having to put that game on his shoulders late. Now it stuck out because Skip Bayless had started his LeBron isn't clutch rant by then. I thought it was weird that when punched in the mouth AND expected to win, LeBron had/has trouble.

They lost that series. It's not that he's incapable.

But I've noticed usually Wade is more of a momentum changer. LeBron is a momentum sustainer in many ways.

Kobe played that role with Shaq. Shaq was the running back you could pound into when you had a teams on its heels. Kobe was the Wide receiver who could bust the game open with his speed and versatility.


It's cool though cuz LeVron is really just a finesse big man.

#31 Majesty

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Posted August 17, 2013 - 02:27 PM

They trade Caron Butler for Kwame Brown.  Thats enough said right there. 


Kwame Brown was traded for Pau Gasol.

That's enough said right there.


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#32 Tensai

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Posted August 17, 2013 - 02:31 PM

I can't produce more "Wow" moments than what I could count with my hand as far as Lebron is concerned. Lebron isn't in that mold. Instead he is consistent like an atomic clock. 9 consecutive seasons (basically post-rookie seasons) of 26+ ppg, 6.5+ rpg, 6.0 apg. And 27.6/7.3/6.9 for a career. You can't really ask more than that.

 

Kobe, on the other hand, is of assassin breed. 13 consecutive seasons of 24.0+ ppg (post 99/00). In history of NBA only Karl Malone matches that record. Considering Kobe's recent track, he will probably shatter that record to pieces so that nobody will ever repeat it again. His style of play, combined with cold blood in his veins is what makes him a unique player. Perhaps, he could have been more efficient, stat padding in early game (like Lebron) and seeking points in every quarter (like Jordan's 8-8-8-8) but he chooses not to do it. Sometimes that hurts the team. But certainly more than ANY other player in history of NBA, it makes him exciting to watch. That 'unpredictability' is tough one to swallow if you are his opponent. Lebron crashes you with his power and athleticism, Jordan did the same with his post game / mid range as bonus. But in both of them you know what you expect from them. In Kobe's case, you can't. (81 points, 62 vs 61 in 3 quarter, 4 consecutive 50+ points in a game, and countless "How the hell did he do that?" reaction....). People from ESPN and people like them who have bashed Kobe and labeled him as ballhog use that particular side as their arsenal, but more than often forgetting what this game is all about. Kobe does what he does, creating more "WOW" than ANY other player in history including Magic and MJ, winning 5 titles out of 7, being a two way player in majority of his career, and shooting respectable 45% and doing it over 17 seaons and counting. That, imo, is what puts him in at least equal ground as Michael and above likes of Lebron James.

 

“Love me or hate me. It’s one or the other. Always has been. Hate my game, my swagger. Hate my fadeaway, my hunger. Hate that I’m a veteran, a champion. Hate that. Hate it with all your heart. And hate that I’m loved for the exact same reasons.” Kobe Bryant

 

 

Well...



#33 BasketballIQ

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Posted August 17, 2013 - 02:33 PM

don't think i've ever seen lebron drag his team to the playoffs...

In the East. Jason Kidd twice, Allen Iverson, LeBron,Reggie Miller took teams to the Finals with relatively little help.

To me Pau and Bosh are similar. Wade is a guy who can be the best player on the court even when LeBron is on the court. On both sides of the ball


Happens just often enough.

I like LeBron's numbers less than I like Kobe's performances. They both purposely entertain. It's why LeBrons leaks out for easy dunks a lot and why Kobe takes very long and/or highly off balanced attempts.

LeBron may be better. But Kobe is OBVIOUSLY greater.

65 vs Portland in 2007 , that's my ultimate Kobe game where it was no question that he could sit at the table with MJ, Magic, Larry, Kareem , and West.

#34 BlueJab23

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Posted August 17, 2013 - 03:54 PM

The Boston series the year before where he was no longer the freight train he had been all season. His energy changed. It wasnt just that Boston was better. It was that LeBron shrunk.

In the first game of that series, I remember Mo Williams distinctively having to put that game on his shoulders late. Now it stuck out because Skip Bayless had started his LeBron isn't clutch rant by then. I thought it was weird that when punched in the mouth AND expected to win, LeBron had/has trouble.

They lost that series. It's not that he's incapable.

But I've noticed usually Wade is more of a momentum changer. LeBron is a momentum sustainer in many ways.

Kobe played that role with Shaq. Shaq was the running back you could pound into when you had a teams on its heels. Kobe was the Wide receiver who could bust the game open with his speed and versatility.


It's cool though cuz LeVron is really just a finesse big man.

 

 

LeBron nearly posted a triple double all series except game 5. How can you say that he choked when that same boston team took the Lakers to game 7. You clearly did not watch the series because you only know about the horrible game LeBron had and failed to recognize what he did all series. Just to remind you LeBron posted 27-10-19 in game 6 and still lost.

 

 

 


In the first game of that series, I remember Mo Williams distinctively having to put that game on his shoulders late.
 

 
Stop making up stuff dude. Mo only scored 2 points in 4th quarter that game.  LeBron also dropped 35-7-7.
 
I'll provide you the link to the first game of that series so you can check for yourself that LeBron scored 12 points in 4th quarter and Mo scored 2 points.
 
Feel free to post the link or explain to me how exactly did Mo Williams put that game on his shoulders late. Otherwise ill just assume that you just make up stuff to hate on LeBron.
 

Edited by BlueJab23, August 17, 2013 - 03:58 PM.


#35 Jody Smokes

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Posted August 17, 2013 - 04:18 PM

Lmao at the idea of Mo Williams putting the team on his back...


"Blake and Parker are good at canceling each other out till our bench point guard comes in"  - Majesty aka Bird Ish (12/4/13)


#36 Majesty

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Posted August 17, 2013 - 04:19 PM

What people remember in that Boston series is the final game.

Where it was because of what Mo Williams was doing that they stayed in the game, and then the team got it close and the time came for LeBron to seal the deal after his teammates had brought the team back into the game, and LeBron couldn't do it.

That's what they remember about that series for the most part.  It was either the Boston series or the Orlando one before then, but I too distinctly remember a closeout game where Mo Williams was the reason they were in it and they were down by three or twoo and LeBron couldn't take the opportunity to seal the deal on the comeback and then was gone for the rest of the game for the most part, save one or two dunks and free throws.

Don't remember what game it was but I think that's the one IQ confused it with.   The one where Shaq looked like he wanted it more than LeBron, so I'm guessing it was the Boston series at some point though I don't remember which one. .


Looking at play by play.. yeah it was definitely game 6. 

And Mo Williams carried them in the first half.  

In the third it was tit for tat really with some missed opportunities for LeBron.

But the 4th is what everyone remembers.

LeBron hit two threes which cut the lead to 4 and everyone was saying "Now it's the time!! To make your legacy!" etc etc... and then... he vanished. 

And that was that.

THAT is the game people remember I think.


Edited by Majesty, August 17, 2013 - 04:26 PM.

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#37 Harry Styles

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Posted August 17, 2013 - 04:20 PM

I can't produce more "Wow" moments than what I could count with my hand as far as Lebron is concerned. Lebron isn't in that mold. Instead he is consistent like an atomic clock. 9 consecutive seasons (basically post-rookie seasons) of 26+ ppg, 6.5+ rpg, 6.0 apg. And 27.6/7.3/6.9 for a career. You can't really ask more than that.

 

Kobe, on the other hand, is of assassin breed. 13 consecutive seasons of 24.0+ ppg (post 99/00). In history of NBA only Karl Malone matches that record. Considering Kobe's recent track, he will probably shatter that record to pieces so that nobody will ever repeat it again. His style of play, combined with cold blood in his veins is what makes him a unique player. Perhaps, he could have been more efficient, stat padding in early game (like Lebron) and seeking points in every quarter (like Jordan's 8-8-8-8) but he chooses not to do it. Sometimes that hurts the team. But certainly more than ANY other player in history of NBA, it makes him exciting to watch. That 'unpredictability' is tough one to swallow if you are his opponent. Lebron crashes you with his power and athleticism, Jordan did the same with his post game / mid range as bonus. But in both of them you know what you expect from them. In Kobe's case, you can't. (81 points, 62 vs 61 in 3 quarter, 4 consecutive 50+ points in a game, and countless "How the hell did he do that?" reaction....). People from ESPN and people like them who have bashed Kobe and labeled him as ballhog use that particular side as their arsenal, but more than often forgetting what this game is all about. Kobe does what he does, creating more "WOW" than ANY other player in history including Magic and MJ, winning 5 titles out of 7, being a two way player in majority of his career, and shooting respectable 45% and doing it over 17 seaons and counting. That, imo, is what puts him in at least equal ground as Michael and above likes of Lebron James.

 

“Love me or hate me. It’s one or the other. Always has been. Hate my game, my swagger. Hate my fadeaway, my hunger. Hate that I’m a veteran, a champion. Hate that. Hate it with all your heart. And hate that I’m loved for the exact same reasons.” Kobe Bryant

 

 

Well...

Kobe isn't that unique. He's exactly like Jordan was, only far less efficient. Jordan was one of the most exciting players in NBA history right with Magic Johnson. Jordan could get any shot he wanted whenever he wanted. That was exciting. He was both LeBron and Kobe. When he wanted to, he could put up insane stats(having a streak of 10 straight triple doubles I believe)., The next day, he could decide he wanted to make a highlight reel by posterizing every player on the other team. ESPN and others bash Kobe because he forces shots way too often. He takes the first shot he sees, regardless if it's the right one. Sorry, but Jordan and MJ shaped basketball the way it is. Jordan's dunk on Ewing, his layup in the 1991 Finals, his 6 3's in one half, his shot on Russell, etc. I will always make Kobe my favorite player of all time but everything he did, Jordan just did it better..



#38 Harry Styles

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Posted August 17, 2013 - 04:21 PM

Lmao at the idea of Mo Williams putting the team on his back...

You were right: Don't take anything BasketballIQ says seriously. 



#39 Majesty

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Posted August 17, 2013 - 04:38 PM

Kobe isn't that unique. He's exactly like Jordan was, only far less efficient. Jordan was one of the most exciting players in NBA history right with Magic Johnson. Jordan could get any shot he wanted whenever he wanted. That was exciting. He was both LeBron and Kobe. When he wanted to, he could put up insane stats(having a streak of 10 straight triple doubles I believe)., The next day, he could decide he wanted to make a highlight reel by posterizing every player on the other team. ESPN and others bash Kobe because he forces shots way too often. He takes the first shot he sees, regardless if it's the right one. Sorry, but Jordan and MJ shaped basketball the way it is. Jordan's dunk on Ewing, his layup in the 1991 Finals, his 6 3's in one half, his shot on Russell, etc. I will always make Kobe my favorite player of all time but everything he did, Jordan just did it better..


Just to play advocate with you Harry as it seems we always seem to do... ;)

Kobe has a better jump shot then Jordan.

Zone wasn't allowed in Jordan's era, Kobe averaged 35ppg against a zone and better defensive schemes than Jordan ever faced in the era he was in.  Back in that era you legitimately had to double team or it was illegal, this allowed Jordan to set up those teammates and Kobe drew more defensive attention than anyone not named Wilt, and Shaq. While in Jordan's era in the 1980s and early 1990s the TOP defensive squads regularly surrendered upwards of 100 points per game because of the schemes and rules about defense.   

Kobe faced better defensive schemes than Jordan ever did and was even more feared than he was in them.   Like I said, not since Wilt nor Shaq has anyone ever demanded such defensive attention as Kobe, and in the era he came up in and the defenses schemed for it the fact he could get a shot whenever he wanted on THOSE defensive schemes is even more mind blowing then watching Jordan do it in his day when you consider the defenses they both played against.


Not to mention despite this Kobe I believe has more assists in his career than Jordan I believe.

The reality is if Kobe remains healthy the only numbers Jordan will have over Kobe will be steals and blocks, but Kobe will eclipse him in points(playoff and season), rebounds and assists.

Kobe knows this, that's why he wants that 6th ring.

Because if Kobe finishes his career with 6 rings,more points(season and playoffs), rebounds, assists than Jordan...  

That makes the debate that much more interesting.    Jordan will be known as the better defender though.  But if Kobe surpasses him in every other category and ties him in rings...then the debate goes from Kobe being "knocking on the door" to Kobe "unlocking it and living inside the house"


Edited by Majesty, August 17, 2013 - 04:41 PM.

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#40 BasketballIQ

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Posted August 17, 2013 - 04:42 PM


LeBron nearly posted a triple double all series except game 5. How can you say that he choked when that same boston team took the Lakers to game 7. You clearly did not watch the series because you only know about the horrible game LeBron had and failed to recognize what he did all series. Just to remind you LeBron posted 27-10-19 in game 6 and still lost.




Stop making up stuff dude. Mo only scored 2 points in 4th quarter that game. LeBron also dropped 35-7-7.

I'll provide you the link to the first game of that series so you can check for yourself that LeBron scored 12 points in 4th quarter and Mo scored 2 points.

Feel free to post the link or explain to me how exactly did Mo Williams put that game on his shoulders late. Otherwise ill just assume that you just make up stuff to hate on LeBron.

http://espn.go.com/n...ameId=300501005



This game
http://sports.yahoo....ebroncavs050110





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