Jump to content




Photo

If Lakers end up being 4 seed or higher, should Kobe hands down win MVP?


  • Please log in to reply
47 replies to this topic

#21 L.A.K.E.R

L.A.K.E.R

    Gomu Gomu

  • 14,753 posts
  • Joined: Jul 24, 2008
  • Location:California
  • Name:Shamim
  • Fan Since:2000
  • Fav. Laker:Kobe Bryant

Posted August 14, 2013 - 12:10 PM

But LeBron, Jordan, Kareem, Wilt, Bird, Magic, Russell and Duncan all won multiple MVP's. It's has merit. That's nine of the greatest players of all time. 

 

That's actually 8 players, and the problem is that the conditions to win the award have changed so drastically in the last decade that it doesn't have as much merit as it once had. Until the '80-81 season, the award was decided via player vote, but since then, it's become a media-driven popularity contest. The requirements to win MVP can change drastically from year to year, there is no fixed list of achievements needed in a season to win the award.

 

The same "rules" that kept Shaq from winning multiple MVPs in the early 00s (despite being clearly the most dominant player in the league) aren't relevant here in 2013, where you see LeBron snagging them despite having a superstar teammate in Wade. Shaq wouldn't win the majority of votes because Kobe was on that team, and sportswriters wouldn't give him as many votes as he deserved, feeling that that was an advantage. Michael Jordan won it at the end of the '87-88 season tied for the 4th best record in the East at 50-32 (they won the season series with Atlanta, thus were 3rd seed), but Kobe couldn't win it in '05-06 despite carrying a horrid Lakers team on his back to 45-37. Both put up historic numbers (MJ had 35/5/6 and Kobe had 35/5/4), but one won the MVP while the other didn't, yet both of them were the best individual players in the league at that time. MJ lost out on a 2nd staright MVP at the end of the '96-97 season (would have won three straight from '96-98) because the media just didn't want to award him another one. He put up similar stats to what he did the previous season AND the Bulls finished the season at 69-13. Yet that still wasn't enough for some reason.

 

Thus, I don't put much stock in the MVP award anymore. It's too random with what constitutes an MVP at the end of any given season. It should go to the best player in the league who does the most for his respective team, period.



#22 fido

fido

    Analyst, Moderator, Insomniac

  • 10,829 posts
  • Joined: Aug 01, 2008
  • Location:Costa Mesa, CA
  • Name:Andy
  • Fan Since:1982
  • Fav. Laker:Magic Johnson

Posted August 14, 2013 - 12:21 PM

Harry, I don't discredit the MVP because "my favorite player doesn't win".  I discredit it because its a traveling award given out by a completely biased media.  You can try to prop the award up all you want but you've been sold a bill of goods.  The media tells you every year what a big deal the MVP is, yet you rarely if ever hear or read about any player that concerned with winning an award that shows off how popular you are to journalists.

 

Until it's voted on by players and coaches, it will hold very little weight to a player.

 

Also, Jerry West, a second tier all-time great?  Man, that says a lot right there.



#23 Harry Styles

Harry Styles

    King of Games

  • 1,417 posts
  • Joined: Jul 31, 2013
  • Name:Dilan
  • Fan Since:Birth
  • Fav. Laker:Kobe Bean Bryant

Posted August 14, 2013 - 02:33 PM

Harry, I don't discredit the MVP because "my favorite player doesn't win".  I discredit it because its a traveling award given out by a completely biased media.  You can try to prop the award up all you want but you've been sold a bill of goods.  The media tells you every year what a big deal the MVP is, yet you rarely if ever hear or read about any player that concerned with winning an award that shows off how popular you are to journalists.

 

Until it's voted on by players and coaches, it will hold very little weight to a player.

 

Also, Jerry West, a second tier all-time great?  Man, that says a lot right there.

He isn't better than Jordan, Magic, Wilt, Kareem, Bird, Russell, Kobe, Duncan, Hakeem and Shaq IMO. 



#24 LakerGeezer

LakerGeezer

    Off The Bench

  • 1,692 posts
  • Joined: Jan 06, 2013
  • Location:North Korea
  • Fan Since:1990
  • Fav. Laker:Dennis Rodman

Posted August 14, 2013 - 03:02 PM

I love "what if" threads.  You can say whatever you want and never have to back it up with thoughtful arguments, real facts/ stats and well drafted posts.  Oh wait, that applies to most threads ....



#25 Jay Cee

Jay Cee

  • 1,534 posts
  • Joined: Oct 01, 2012
  • Location:San Clemente
  • Name:James
  • Fan Since:2000
  • Fav. Laker:The Mamba

Posted August 14, 2013 - 05:01 PM

Probably not. If Lebron has a similar season to that one, or Kevin Durant, whom I believe just had the most efficient high volume shooting numbers in NBA history, then doesn't matter if the Lakers are a top 4 seed really. Just my opinion though.

#26 Jody Smokes

Jody Smokes

    Starter

  • 5,406 posts
  • Joined: Jun 01, 2013
  • Fan Since:2003
  • Fav. Laker:Kobe

Posted August 14, 2013 - 05:02 PM

Jerry West isnt even a legit top 10 player of all time.  MJ, Kobe, KAJ, Magic, Bird, Shaq, Tim Duncan, Lebron, Wilt, Hakeem...West legacy is much bigger than he was actually as a player.  Hell comparing most players from the 60s and 70s at the wing to the guys to day really doesn't hold weight anyway.  Jerry West would get washed by AI and Dwade. 

 

Much respect to what he has done for the game and the Lakers for that matter tho....(puts on flameproof jacket)


"Blake and Parker are good at canceling each other out till our bench point guard comes in"  - Majesty aka Bird Ish (12/4/13)


#27 fido

fido

    Analyst, Moderator, Insomniac

  • 10,829 posts
  • Joined: Aug 01, 2008
  • Location:Costa Mesa, CA
  • Name:Andy
  • Fan Since:1982
  • Fav. Laker:Magic Johnson

Posted August 14, 2013 - 05:22 PM

Did you ever see him play Jody?

 

Saying his legacy is much bigger than him as an actual player is absolutely preposterous.  I have no words for that sentiment - just amazed by the lack of depth of knowledge by some Laker / NBA fans.  :smh:

Back to the topic at hand.



#28 Majesty

Majesty

    Grats on making the Raiderettes cuzzo!!

  • 35,773 posts
  • Joined: Dec 11, 2011
  • Name:Jay
  • Fan Since:1987
  • Fav. Laker:Kobe present, Magic past

Posted August 14, 2013 - 05:26 PM

Did you ever see him play Jody?


Saying his legacy is much bigger than him as an actual player is absolutely preposterous.  I have no words for that sentiment - just amazed by the lack of depth of knowledge by some Laker / NBA fans.  :smh:

ack to the topic at hand.

 

tumblr_lyvq47DWd81rn95k2o1_500.gif


Is Wayne Brady gonna have to Djokovic? - Robert Flores 


#29 Clutch Factor

Clutch Factor

    Starter

  • 5,272 posts
  • Joined: Jul 29, 2013
  • Fav. Laker:Kobe Bryant

Posted August 14, 2013 - 05:28 PM

MVP is media-biased, so I could care less who gets it. Although I would love for Kobe to get another one just to bolster his NBA resume, I highly doubt he will. At this point it's all about rings.



#30 DanishLakerFan

DanishLakerFan

    Starter

  • 4,312 posts
  • Joined: May 27, 2011
  • Fan Since:1998
  • Fav. Laker:Kobe

Posted August 15, 2013 - 04:41 AM

Kobe will never win another MVP, unfortunately. That to me isn’t the end of the world. Guys like Shaq and Oscar Robertson only won one MVP as well and the MVP is quite biased and is given to the best player ON THE BEST TEAM and not the best player overall. If it was the best player overall, Kobe would at least have had four and Dirk and Nash ZERO.

 

In my opinion he’s been the best player in the league for almost a decade from early to late 2000s and while most people appropriately have MJ, Kareem, Wilt and Russell on their top 4, Kobe is right on that next tier with Bird, Magic, Duncan, Big O, Shaq and Lebron. The order on the top and second tier doesn’t really matter either, since we’re comparing players from different eras and you could probably make a case for all of them.

 

For Kobe to win this season, he needs to take this year’s Lakers within a couple of games to the best record in the west, which is next to impossible regardless of what happens.



#31 BasketballIQ

BasketballIQ

    All-Star

  • 6,656 posts
  • Joined: Dec 29, 2012
  • Name:2 Jordans and 2 Steves
  • Fav. Laker:24

Posted August 15, 2013 - 07:20 AM

That's the second tier of all time greats. Kobe belongs in the first tier of all time greats with Jordan, Magic, etc. and those others players are in that second tier. Some people like the discredit the MVP when their favorite player didn't win any or few. 

Elgin was LeBron first of all. Hakeem is the greatest of a modern era of big men. Shaq was the LeBron of Centers before 32 or so. Jerry West, lol. Julius, cmon man.\

 

 

Dirk and KG, sure, though KG is amongst the greatest PFs ever, and if you take Tin " I really am a Center" Duncan out of the mix, KG is arguably the best two-way PF of the last 40 years



#32 Jody Smokes

Jody Smokes

    Starter

  • 5,406 posts
  • Joined: Jun 01, 2013
  • Fan Since:2003
  • Fav. Laker:Kobe

Posted August 15, 2013 - 01:19 PM

Explain my lack of knowledge then.  Explain how Jerry West cracks that top 10 I just posted?

Did you ever see him play Jody?

 

Saying his legacy is much bigger than him as an actual player is absolutely preposterous.  I have no words for that sentiment - just amazed by the lack of depth of knowledge by some Laker / NBA fans.  :smh:

Back to the topic at hand.


"Blake and Parker are good at canceling each other out till our bench point guard comes in"  - Majesty aka Bird Ish (12/4/13)


#33 zombeef

zombeef

    Rookie

  • 590 posts
  • Joined: Jul 27, 2012
  • Name:Daniel
  • Fan Since:1998
  • Fav. Laker:Kobe Bean Bryant

Posted August 15, 2013 - 04:23 PM

If Kobe can take this squad to the fourth seed or higher, that would be a much bigger accomplishment than winning the season MVP. 



#34 Yaboy

Yaboy

    Sixth Man

  • 3,873 posts
  • Joined: Jun 22, 2009
  • Fav. Laker:Kobe Bryant

Posted August 15, 2013 - 04:39 PM

You really just created a thread on some random scenario for Kobe to win MVP?  What if Golden St wins 60 games should Steph get MVP?  What about if the Heat win 73 should Lebron be crowned the MVP again?

You seem bitter in every post.


de__anthony_thomas_by_eksde-d5e4v29.png

"Love me or hate me it's one or the other. Always has been. Hate my game, hate my swagger, hate my fade-away, my hunger, hate that i'm a veteran, A champion, hate that. Hate it with all your heart, and hate that i'm loved for the exact same reasons." - Kobe


#35 Jody Smokes

Jody Smokes

    Starter

  • 5,406 posts
  • Joined: Jun 01, 2013
  • Fan Since:2003
  • Fav. Laker:Kobe

Posted August 15, 2013 - 04:46 PM

Im actually cool, but it may seem that way due to having a brain and actually not having unrealistic expectations for my fav sports team

You seem bitter in every post.


"Blake and Parker are good at canceling each other out till our bench point guard comes in"  - Majesty aka Bird Ish (12/4/13)


#36 Jay Cee

Jay Cee

  • 1,534 posts
  • Joined: Oct 01, 2012
  • Location:San Clemente
  • Name:James
  • Fan Since:2000
  • Fav. Laker:The Mamba

Posted August 16, 2013 - 04:19 AM

He deserves to have at least two MVPs to his name. You could make an argument for three. But that's just the way it is. How many mvp awards he finishes with won't determine his greatness. He's top 10 all time right now, and I don't think having another MVP award would bump him up any higher.

#37 Disaster in Paradise

Disaster in Paradise

    Perfect Blue

  • 8,377 posts
  • Joined: Mar 24, 2012

Posted August 16, 2013 - 04:37 AM

Jerry West isnt even a legit top 10 player of all time. MJ, Kobe, KAJ, Magic, Bird, Shaq, Tim Duncan, Lebron, Wilt, Hakeem...West legacy is much bigger than he was actually as a player. Hell comparing most players from the 60s and 70s at the wing to the guys to day really doesn't hold weight anyway. Jerry West would get washed by AI and Dwade.

Much respect to what he has done for the game and the Lakers for that matter tho....(puts on flameproof jacket)


Agreed with all my heart!

I mean, come on! It's not like Jerry West is the NBA logo, am I right!?

4JX9HR0.png


#38 Jody Smokes

Jody Smokes

    Starter

  • 5,406 posts
  • Joined: Jun 01, 2013
  • Fan Since:2003
  • Fav. Laker:Kobe

Posted August 16, 2013 - 04:38 AM

Don't think there is much Kobe can do to solidify his legacy at this point.  Depending on who you talk to he could range from #2 to #10.  Thats great regardless of how you look at it.  Really to have a real ranking out of a top 10 of hundreds of greats over many generations.


"Blake and Parker are good at canceling each other out till our bench point guard comes in"  - Majesty aka Bird Ish (12/4/13)


#39 Jody Smokes

Jody Smokes

    Starter

  • 5,406 posts
  • Joined: Jun 01, 2013
  • Fan Since:2003
  • Fav. Laker:Kobe

Posted August 16, 2013 - 04:39 AM

Him being a logo has nothing to do with him not cracking the all time top 10. 

Agreed with all my heart!

I mean, come on! It's not like Jerry West is the NBA logo, am I right!?


"Blake and Parker are good at canceling each other out till our bench point guard comes in"  - Majesty aka Bird Ish (12/4/13)


#40 DanishLakerFan

DanishLakerFan

    Starter

  • 4,312 posts
  • Joined: May 27, 2011
  • Fan Since:1998
  • Fav. Laker:Kobe

Posted August 16, 2013 - 04:39 AM

He deserves to have at least two MVPs to his name. You could make an argument for three. But that's just the way it is. How many mvp awards he finishes with won't determine his greatness. He's top 10 all time right now, and I don't think having another MVP award would bump him up any higher.

Nope, it wouldn't. Not at this point.

 

For Kobe to climb the latter he needs to win another ring. That's the first thing.

The second thing is to do what many of the other guys weren't able to do, which is to age with grace and perhaps have success in coaching or management.

 

Jordan's Washington days and his with Charlotte doesn't really improve his resumé.






0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users