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80s vs 90s vs 2000s


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#21 BasketballIQ

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Posted August 11, 2013 - 07:45 PM

McGrady was borderline Hall of Fame, and play on either bad teams or bad luck teams(Yao-him injured)

 

 

Even Kobe thought Tracy was the only one in his conversation in the early 2000s, they guy was LeBron. Look at the numbers, plus he could shoot with confidence, and had an exciting game.

 

 

As far as Scottie being better than GP, welll Scottie never led a team to the Finals



#22 Harry Styles

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Posted August 11, 2013 - 07:49 PM

This post alone clarifies to me that you weren't paying attention to my post at all. I'm talking about the 2000's, not the 90's, so I'm not even going to touch that part of your post.
 
If you don't want to discuss McGrady again, that's fine. I will.
 
7 consecutive all-star appearances in the 2000's, 5 starts. 17 points per game (which is excellent for all-star game standards).
 
2 All-NBA first team selections.
3 All-NBA second team selections.
2 all-NBA third team selections.
 
So for 7 straight seasons, he was at least a top 3 player at his position according to general consensus. He was undeniably the 2nd best perimeter player in the league behind Kobe.
 
2001-6th place in MVP voting
2002-4th place in MVP voting
2004 4th place in MVP voting
2007-6th place in MVP voting
 
4/7 years he was in the distant discussion for the MVP award and the only thing hindering him were the terrible teams he played for.
 
And also, back to back scoring titles in 2003 and 2004. Comfortably. 2 full points ahead of Kobe in 2003 and 4 full points ahead of Peja in 2004. The only others to do it during the decade? Iverson and Kobe. Not counting KD because 2010-11 is a new decade.
 
McGrady averaged 32 points per game in the playoffs over 4 consecutive seasons at one point. He came to play. You can't discredit everything he did because he played for an average Orlando Magic team. He averaged 34 points per game (42%), 8 assists, and 7 rebounds per game in his VERY FIRST PLAYOFF SERIES as the first option.
 
An average player that could dunk? McGrady was the best scorer in the league for a consecutive number of years. He was a 30 point scorer with point guard handles and incredible length and had it not be for injuries he would still be contributing in the league today.

Don't even bother arguing with him. It's clear fido is on that good kush and alcohol. Saying McGrady was average was the most head scratching statement I've ever seen. If averaging 32 7 6 is average, then every player ever was average. 


Edited by Harry Styles, August 11, 2013 - 10:11 PM.


#23 ツ  

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Posted August 11, 2013 - 07:51 PM

fido what is your standard of an "average" player?



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Posted August 11, 2013 - 07:56 PM

Don't even bother arguing with him. It's clear fido is on that good kush and alcohol. Saying McGrady was average was the dumbest statement I've ever seen. 

Damn bro'. You really wanna' talk to a Mod like that? Good luck with that. Psh

 

f7140.jpg


yo.


#25 TKainZero

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Posted August 11, 2013 - 07:58 PM

Because of Kobe, every other sg just looks pedestrian

If Kobe didn't exist, then mcgrady would be remembered in much better light..
Kobe put every other sg to shame...
Can you imagine Kobe in the same role mcgrady was last season?

#26 Harry Styles

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Posted August 11, 2013 - 10:13 PM

Damn bro'. You really wanna' talk to a Mod like that? Good luck with that. Psh

 

f7140.jpg

Not like I insulted him. That post was just really, really disrespectful. Anyone who thinks averaging 32 7 6 for a season is average needs to start following cricket instead. Allen Iverson must have been average too, right?



#27 fido

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Posted August 12, 2013 - 12:46 AM

Disresepctful?

 

The truth hurts.

 

We're going by popularity contests and a one season average as a qualifier for the hall of fame?!  And, seriously, he's a borderline hall of fame player?!

 

Wow, kids, simply wow.

 

Even in the 2000s, McGrady is still not a top 10 player.  11 players (from the 2000s era - 2000-2009) better than McGrady, in no particular order.

 

1) Shaquille O'Neal

2) Kobe Bryant

3) LeBron James

4) Ray Allen

5) Kevin Garnett

6) Paul Pierce

7) Dwyane Wade

8) Tim Duncan

9) Tony Parker

10) Allen Iverson

11) Steve Nash

 

Need more?  You guys bring up All-Star appearances and one season averages as if they are a bearing on a player's overall skill and impact - yet again.  You guys seem more fascinated with dunks and flash than an overall game and impact on games and teams he played than anything else.  Harry, I love how you lump in another player I never even mentioned before and used him as some element in your "argument".  That's not proving your point, it's avoiding mine and trying to derail the conversation to take focus away from the position you can't defend.

 

Again, that's as  far as I'll go.  You guys can live in your delusion as much as you want to.



#28 KB24BlackMamba

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Posted August 12, 2013 - 01:49 AM

Disresepctful?

 

The truth hurts.

 

We're going by popularity contests and a one season average as a qualifier for the hall of fame?!  And, seriously, he's a borderline hall of fame player?!

 

Wow, kids, simply wow.

 

Even in the 2000s, McGrady is still not a top 10 player.  11 players (from the 2000s era - 2000-2009) better than McGrady, in no particular order.

 

1) Shaquille O'Neal

2) Kobe Bryant

3) LeBron James

4) Ray Allen

5) Kevin Garnett

6) Paul Pierce

7) Dwyane Wade

8) Tim Duncan

9) Tony Parker

10) Allen Iverson

11) Steve Nash

 

Need more?  You guys bring up All-Star appearances and one season averages as if they are a bearing on a player's overall skill and impact - yet again.  You guys seem more fascinated with dunks and flash than an overall game and impact on games and teams he played than anything else.  Harry, I love how you lump in another player I never even mentioned before and used him as some element in your "argument".  That's not proving your point, it's avoiding mine and trying to derail the conversation to take focus away from the position you can't defend.

 

Again, that's as  far as I'll go.  You guys can live in your delusion as much as you want to.

McGrady had one of the best overrall offensive games when he was healthy. He could shoot the 3, he had probably the deadliest pull up jumper in the game because no one could contain him because of his length and lift on his jumper, he could take it to the rim and finish, he was a good passer.

How can a player be average if he averaged over 24ppg for 7 straight seasons ? 


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Posted August 12, 2013 - 07:13 AM

I wish some of the other heavy hitters on this forum such as Real Deal, LAKER, GCMD, West Coast, etc. would come in here & give their two cents on T-Mac as it relates to this discussion.


yo.


#30 Windu

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Posted August 12, 2013 - 09:36 AM

1) Shaquille O'Neal

2) Kobe Bryant

3) LeBron James

4) Ray Allen

5) Kevin Garnett

6) Paul Pierce

7) Dwyane Wade

8) Tim Duncan

9) Tony Parker

10) Allen Iverson

11) Steve Nash

 

Of the players listed here, the only ones I enjoyed watching more than Tracy McGrady are:

 

Kobe Bryant

Shaquille O'Neal

Kevin Garnett (Minnesota KG)

 

Tmac was more enjoyable to watch than the others imo


Pau Gasol is GONE


#31 BasketballIQ

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Posted August 12, 2013 - 11:40 AM

For example T-Mac at his best was superior t o KD, and that's not an argument in my book.

 

T-Mac was not only a more willing passer but he was a better one. His ball handling was on prime Kobe level if not better. his shooting was very good. his defense was average, but he had some blocks and steals based on length. But as far as a weapon on a team, he was top shelf. Injuries derailed about the 2-4 more years of production he would have needed for Hall of fame votes.

 

 

There was a time when T-Mac was the 1b perimeter player in the league bar none.



#32 bfc1125roy

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Posted August 12, 2013 - 12:01 PM

There are two ways of looking at this discussion.

 

1) Overall effectiveness throughout the decade. How much did each player dominate over the course of the 2000s? 

 

In this case, I could make a case for TMac not being in the top 10 (although I could also argue he's there, just not at the top). The injuries hurt his ability to stay relevant in the latter half of the decade.

 

2) Peak dominance. In his prime or best years, how good was each player comparatively. 

 

In that case, TMac is in the top 10. Although he had defensive deficiencies, he was an offensive monster as many other posters have proven with stats. 

 

This should probably settle the discussion. 


Edited by bfc1125roy, August 12, 2013 - 12:07 PM.


#33 Massacre

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Posted August 12, 2013 - 02:01 PM

Fido did you even read my post? No insult, serious question...

In regards to your list..

Ray Allen has been more consistent. A better player? No. Allen was never in the top 8 discussion for MVP one time during the 2000's. Closest he got was 9 and McGrady's 26.7 ppg average throughout his 7 best seasons is better than Allen's. McGrady was the better scorer, rebounder and passer during his peak years. I don't see what Allen did better than McGrady other than shoot the ball and MAYBE defend.

McGrady's best 7 seasons he put up 26.7 points per game. More than Allen, more than Pierce, more than Nash and more than Parker. I'm sure if I did the numbers, he would only be second to Kobe and Iverson in that category, if not in front of them. He was one of the better scorers in the game during his peak years.

Parker wasn't a franchise player until the mid-2000's when he became a top 5 player at his position. He didn't even enter the league until 2001 and that was a throwaway rookie season. He never made an all-NBA first or second team during the 2000's, the highest he got was #3 and even that season it was debatable because Nash, Kidd, Deron, Paul all had better years. And I will not penalize McGrady for not having the greatest power forward and a top 5 coach of all-time on his side. More accomplished yes, but Parker a better overall player than McGrady? Not a [expletive]ing chance.

Steve Nash I have no problem giving you because I can't argue against 2 MVP awards. He was consistent, although he wasn't a top player at his position until 2005. It's strongly debatable. Again, Nash is more accomplished (and I can attribute that to the media as you've been doing) but are you seriously telling me he was a better player than McGrady? I'm not buying that.

Wade didn't even enter the league until 2003. He put up incredible scoring numbers on an average Miami team, won a championship and was in the legitimate MVP discussion for one season (2009). Again, this is debatable. Like McGrady, Wade would be recognized as the premier perimeter player during his peak years had it not been for Kobe. Wade is probably a more complete player and he has the rings, but McGrady was a better scorer. Lets go ahead and give the advantage to Wade.

Now with that said,

Kobe
Shaq
Duncan
Garnett
Kidd
LeBron
Wade

You can make a legitimate and FACTUALLY based argument for McGrady being better than any player not listed above. Dirk (who didn't win a ring until June 2011), Allen, Pierce, Iverson--all of the guys you listed...Pick anyone of them and tell me what exactly (multiple things) they did better than McGrady during their peak years.

Edited by Triple Ocho, August 12, 2013 - 02:04 PM.

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#34    

   

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Posted August 12, 2013 - 02:03 PM

^ I love your relentlessness. You just won't let him off the hook. Gotta' respect that.


yo.


#35 steven v

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Posted August 12, 2013 - 02:26 PM

80s.. 

 

 

teams were allowed to play defense back then. 

 

 

A lot of the scoring you see in today's game has nothing to do with how good a player is. It's mostly tied to the fact that today's rules allows players to run towards to rim unimpeded. 


The Lakers FO knows more than you. Sorry.

#36 Jay Cee

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Posted August 13, 2013 - 04:50 AM

Yeah, T-Mac was legit for about 7 seasons of that decade. He was better than Pierce and Allen for sure. It's hard to argue Nash and Parker because they play such a different role. I'd say better than Parker, but not Nash. Dirk was better, AI was certainly better and deserves a little more respect in these conversations.

I don't know if that makes him top 10 of the decade, but he's unquestionably top 20. Saying McGrady was average at best is ridiculous. Do your homework, compare his stats to the top guys, he was on that level. I really don't know how you could possibly argue otherwise.

And as for the original topic, I'd take the 90s team. Shaq and Duncan would be a lot to handle though.

Edited by djcovi, August 13, 2013 - 05:00 AM.


#37 Red September

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Posted August 13, 2013 - 12:19 PM

What about the 60s and 70s?

Wilt
Russell
Baylor
Cousy
West
Kareem
Willes
Bill Walton
Dr j
Havclaik(however u spell that)

60> 70s, 80s

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#38 BleedPurple&Gold

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Posted August 13, 2013 - 12:27 PM

90's


9888d4ba-ad6b-4879-93aa-9ef1c6ed1dbd_zps





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