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#61 Majesty

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Posted August 09, 2013 - 09:15 PM

Defense, quickness, athleticism, inside dominance, P&R coverage, the list goes on and on.


How bout wanting to be here and not sabotaging the offense because you want to prove Shaq wrong :)


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#62 L.A.K.E.R

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Posted August 09, 2013 - 10:25 PM


How bout wanting to be here and not sabotaging the offense because you want to prove Shaq wrong :)

 

I'd much rather have the superstar with baggage than a mediocre bench player. Dwight leaving is all personal and he's shown a weak mentality, but it doesn't change the fact that even if he's "sabotaging" the offense or playing half-assed defense that he's far superior to Kaman on both ends of the floor. It's not even close. Talent wins in this league, it's always been that way.

 

Getting Chris Kaman as a back-up doesn't mitigate the fact that we lost a superstar and the guy that was supposed to carry the franchise in the near future. With that gone, we'll take a few years to bounce back barring some ridiculous trade or winning the draft lottery.



#63 Majesty

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Posted August 09, 2013 - 10:40 PM

I'd much rather have the superstar with baggage than a mediocre bench player. Dwight leaving is all personal and he's shown a weak mentality, but it doesn't change the fact that even if he's "sabotaging" the offense or playing half-assed defense that he's far superior to Kaman on both ends of the floor. It's not even close. Talent wins in this league, it's always been that way.

 

Getting Chris Kaman as a back-up doesn't mitigate the fact that we lost a superstar and the guy that was supposed to carry the franchise in the near future. With that gone, we'll take a few years to bounce back barring some ridiculous trade or winning the draft lottery.


yeah but does that win a championship?  If he doesn't want to be here he did show the ability to become disengaged at time so if anything his effort appeared to be inconsistent till the last half of the year when he HAD to buy into what was happening and life became a lot easier for him.

I honestly thing the whole "post up" thing was an excuse.  The Rockets ran the least post ups in the NBA last year I just don't think he wanted to be here at all.

If that's the case any extended time here would have been as inconsistent as the first one.     As skilled as he is, he didn't seem like a guy we could depend on to get us to the next level of a championship.

While it's obvious we're not a better team without him it will cause less locker room problems and drama without him. 

All that negative energy is bad karma and it honestly needed to be gone from our team.  The skill in the world isn't worth him disengaging from games or letting frustration get to him and costing us in vital situations because it was the worst year to get him last, we showed a leap of faith by even signing him and he thanked us by not showing full effort, refusing to run pick and roll, refusing to play to his strengths, not moving on the offensive end off pick and rolls allowing Nash and Kobe to get trapped and then complaining about THEM, making fun of Kobe behind his back and then after all this calling Nash a bad teammate..

When you put all that in microcosm.. all that talent wasn't worth keeping around especially if he already felt like he was a winner and didn't have to win a championship to prove that.

To me it's worse to have all that talent but watching them NOT be engaged when you know they are capable of such more as opposed to watching mediocre talent play their heart out every single night.

I'd rather not have a repeat of the drama of last year and if Dwight was the cause of a lot of that and is part of the reason why the team didn't really gel then we're better off in the long run without him, not the short run, but the long run.

And when I look at his mentality, his "I'm already a winner" and "blame everybody else for my problems or lack of effort" or "care more about proving a point than my own team succeeding in a desperate year where I should play to my strengths but won't."

When I weigh all that I think.. yes he was "supposed to be the guy to lead our franchise into the next few years." But looking at that mentality, maybe Dwight on THAT level, wasn't who we thought he was, and wouldn't have been what we wanted him to be.

If that's the case then ultimately it would have been all for naught and all he'd have done was let us down.  Just my opinion though.


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#64 lakersince75

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Posted August 10, 2013 - 02:34 AM

The last I checked we did rather well without that guy #12 and sucked with him. The last I checked there are teams with slow centers that made it to the conference finals. The last I checked, the healthiest most focused teams did well. I'm going to enjoy a bunch of underrated guys being able to show you what they can do when they play with a REAL organization and guys as serious as Kobe and Nash. And I don't want any of you negatives sissies back on the bandwagon when we are seeded 5 or 6 

I'd much rather have the superstar with baggage than a mediocre bench player. Dwight leaving is all personal and he's shown a weak mentality, but it doesn't change the fact that even if he's "sabotaging" the offense or playing half-assed defense that he's far superior to Kaman on both ends of the floor. It's not even close. Talent wins in this league, it's always been that way.

 

Getting Chris Kaman as a back-up doesn't mitigate the fact that we lost a superstar and the guy that was supposed to carry the franchise in the near future. With that gone, we'll take a few years to bounce back barring some ridiculous trade or winning the draft lottery.


Edited by lakersince75, August 10, 2013 - 02:40 AM.


#65 lakersince75

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Posted August 10, 2013 - 02:37 AM

Exactly!! Let's keep it real. Howard didn't want to be with us in the first place. Especially if Kobe was going to be there after his current contract ends. In a weird way I think Howard wants to be the MAN but needs to be carried at the same time. Howard is a good player. But let's not forget what Pau and Bynum did to him in the finals. Pau and Bynum; think about that.


yeah but does that win a championship?  If he doesn't want to be here he did show the ability to become disengaged at time so if anything his effort appeared to be inconsistent till the last half of the year when he HAD to buy into what was happening and life became a lot easier for him.

I honestly thing the whole "post up" thing was an excuse.  The Rockets ran the least post ups in the NBA last year I just don't think he wanted to be here at all.

If that's the case any extended time here would have been as inconsistent as the first one.     As skilled as he is, he didn't seem like a guy we could depend on to get us to the next level of a championship.

While it's obvious we're not a better team without him it will cause less locker room problems and drama without him. 

All that negative energy is bad karma and it honestly needed to be gone from our team.  The skill in the world isn't worth him disengaging from games or letting frustration get to him and costing us in vital situations because it was the worst year to get him last, we showed a leap of faith by even signing him and he thanked us by not showing full effort, refusing to run pick and roll, refusing to play to his strengths, not moving on the offensive end off pick and rolls allowing Nash and Kobe to get trapped and then complaining about THEM, making fun of Kobe behind his back and then after all this calling Nash a bad teammate..

When you put all that in microcosm.. all that talent wasn't worth keeping around especially if he already felt like he was a winner and didn't have to win a championship to prove that.

To me it's worse to have all that talent but watching them NOT be engaged when you know they are capable of such more as opposed to watching mediocre talent play their heart out every single night.

I'd rather not have a repeat of the drama of last year and if Dwight was the cause of a lot of that and is part of the reason why the team didn't really gel then we're better off in the long run without him, not the short run, but the long run.

And when I look at his mentality, his "I'm already a winner" and "blame everybody else for my problems or lack of effort" or "care more about proving a point than my own team succeeding in a desperate year where I should play to my strengths but won't."

When I weigh all that I think.. yes he was "supposed to be the guy to lead our franchise into the next few years." But looking at that mentality, maybe Dwight on THAT level, wasn't who we thought he was, and wouldn't have been what we wanted him to be.

If that's the case then ultimately it would have been all for naught and all he'd have done was let us down.  Just my opinion though.


Edited by lakersince75, August 10, 2013 - 02:44 AM.


#66 DanishLakerFan

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Posted August 10, 2013 - 04:26 AM

Exactly!! Let's keep it real. Howard didn't want to be with us in the first place. Especially if Kobe was going to be there after his current contract ends. In a weird way I think Howard wants to be the MAN but needs to be carried at the same time. Howard is a good player. But let's not forget what Pau and Bynum did to him in the finals. Pau and Bynum; think about that.

Forget about Howard. He blew the chance he had to be among the all-time greats with his indecision two years ago. He better win something in the next year or two, because there are a lot of big men who are looking to knock him off his throne as "best center in the league". 



#67 Jay Cee

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Posted August 10, 2013 - 04:51 AM

I still don't understand how we are supposed to be better defensively. Someone explain please.

Here are the facts: Rambis as the head coach of the Wolves had the worst defense in the league. 29th and 30th in opp ppg.

We have one of the worst defenders at point guard in Nash. Kobe, whose defense has been slipping gradually the last few seasons, but can still play D in crucial situations. Nick Young, who has never been a good defender. Pau Gasol, who gets absolutely slaughtered in pick and roll situations and transition. And Kaman; see Pau Gasol.

Kurt Rambis' magical zone scheme is going to make that lineup good defensively? What do you base that off? What facts? Because his Minnesota teams were the worst defensive teams in the league. There's a fact about Kurt Rambis.

It's an optimistic prediction that he will transform LA into a respectable defensive team. My pessimism (if you want to call it that) is based off the facts I have in front of me. Just being realistic. You need good defensive players to play good defense. Doesn't matter what kind of scheme you run, good offensive players will exploit bad defensive players. We have four average defenders on the team, two of them coming off surgery, and everyone else pretty much sucks.

But yeah, Rambis and his zone defense will mask that....

#68 Majesty

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Posted August 10, 2013 - 05:14 AM

I still don't understand how we are supposed to be better defensively. Someone explain please.

Here are the facts: Rambis as the head coach of the Wolves had the worst defense in the league. 29th and 30th in opp ppg.

We have one of the worst defenders at point guard in Nash. Kobe, whose defense has been slipping gradually the last few seasons, but can still play D in crucial situations. Nick Young, who has never been a good defender. Pau Gasol, who gets absolutely slaughtered in pick and roll situations and transition. And Kaman; see Pau Gasol.

Kurt Rambis' magical zone scheme is going to make that lineup good defensively? What do you base that off? What facts? Because his Minnesota teams were the worst defensive teams in the league. There's a fact about Kurt Rambis.

It's an optimistic prediction that he will transform LA into a respectable defensive team. My pessimism (if you want to call it that) is based off the facts I have in front of me. Just being realistic. You need good defensive players to play good defense. Doesn't matter what kind of scheme you run, good offensive players will exploit bad defensive players. We have four average defenders on the team, two of them coming off surgery, and everyone else pretty much sucks.

But yeah, Rambis and his zone defense will mask that....



The other facts about Kurt Rambis that people seem to always want to ignore is that he's a better assistant than a head coach.  They are two different things.


You neglect to mention that our defense improved when he was our defensive assistant and they were the years we won the championships.  When he left our defensive effort stunk and we got beat by the same plays over and over and were trying to win games on talent till Dallas took us out in 4 cause we never adjusted defensively to what they wanted to do.

You've NEVER heard of defensive assistants that go on and coach teams and suck and are MUCH better as defensive assistants than they are head coaches?  Well that is Rambis.

We aren't bringing him here to head coach we're bringing him here to be a defensive assistant which he's best at.

So what he's done as a head coach is irrelevant as that's not what we're bringing him here for, we're bringing him in as a defensive assistant and in THAT field his credentials speak for themselves.


That's the last time I have to point that out to the same people that always go "but but as a head coach he was no good!"

Well as an assistant he was wonderful.  And that's what we're getting him as so that's more relevant.


Is Wayne Brady gonna have to Djokovic? - Robert Flores 


#69 L.A.K.E.R

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Posted August 10, 2013 - 08:52 AM

The last I checked we did rather well without that guy #12 and sucked with him. The last I checked there are teams with slow centers that made it to the conference finals. The last I checked, the healthiest most focused teams did well. I'm going to enjoy a bunch of underrated guys being able to show you what they can do when they play with a REAL organization and guys as serious as Kobe and Nash. And I don't want any of you negatives sissies back on the bandwagon when we are seeded 5 or 6 

 

Guess what those teams with slow centers had? Players that could cover for them on both ends of the floor, defensive systems with the necessary personnel, good to great coaching, and superstars in their prime. Let's look at the last 3 years:

 

2013

 

East: Miami vs. Indiana, Miami has an amazing defensive system and the best player in the league, no one amazing at the center position, but they have an advantage going small with LeBron at the 4 which no other team in the league can boast. It dramatically shifts whatever lineups they can bring out because he's just that versatile on both ends of the floor. On the other hand Indiana has Roy Hibbert who is an excellent defensive anchor and Paul George is one of the best perimeter defenders (and is becoming one of the best players) in the league.

 

West: San Antonio vs. Memphis. San Antonio has Pop who put in another great year as a coach (until Game 5 of the Finals), the best offensive system in the league, Tony Parker is still in his prime, and they have a defensive scheme that players are committed to with defenders like Danny Green and Kawhi Leonard on the perimeter with Tim Duncan still being an obstacle in the paint. Memphis was the best defensive team for much of last season headlined by Marc Gasol, Tony Allen, Mike Conley and a coach in Lionel Hollins who was committed to their defensive system and focused on slowing the game down.

 

2012

 

East: Miami vs. Boston. Same info for Miami as before, Boston had years of chemistry with the Big 3 and Rondo, one of the better coaches in the league with Doc Rivers, a system that worked well on both ends of the floor, and Rondo who is a top 3 PG and probably the best defensive PG in the league.

 

West: San Antonio vs. Oklahoma City. Same info for San Antonio, OKC has two of the youngest stars in the league in Durant and Westbrook, Durant is the 2nd best player in the entire league, had James Harden and Serge Ibaka as their 3rd and 4th best players which speaks to their depth, Ibaka is one of the best help defenders in the league, and Scott Brooks isn't that good of a coach. They got by on a top heavy team with young talent that let them run through the West before meeting a buzzsaw in Miami.

 

2011

 

East: Chicago vs. Miami. Copy/paste Miami's info here, Chicago was led by a 22 year old Derrick Rose who put in an MVP-caliber season, had the best defensive coach in the league leading their team from the sideline in Tom Thibodeau, and had an awesome defensive system with the likes of Luol Deng on the perimeter with other roleplayers and Joakim Noah roaming the paint.

 

West: Dallas vs. OKC. Nothing new from OKC, same thing from 2012, but Dallas had Dirk Nowitzki (33 years old, maybe the last year of his prime) put in an all-time great effort through the postseason, a team full of competent roleplayers who were committed to playing defense, an offensive system that was efficient and a defensive system that was versatile (again, with COMMITTED personnel), and one of the best coaches in the league in Rick Carlisle. The other slow big men (Duncan, Gasol, Hibbert, Garnett) all all amongst the best defensive players in the league, with Duncan and Garnett in their primes being two of the best defensive anchors that the league has ever seen.

 

Common themes from Conference finalists? Good defensive systems, good coaching, and star players still in their prime. Oh hey, we don't have any of those. A slow center won't bog you down if you have an elite perimeter star commanding defensive attention on the offensive end of the floor or a system that can cover for them. Perkins is a terrible player, but OKC made two straight WCF because they had players to cover him defensively (Ibaka with the help defense, Sefolosha on the perimeter) and obviously had the trio of Durant/Westbrook/Harden to smash teams on the other end. And finally we had Tyson Chandler on the Mavs in '11 and Joakim Noah (who was plagued by foot problems) for the Bulls in '11. Both mobile big men, great interior defenders, great with P&R coverage, and both are completely committed on the defensive end of the floor.

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------

I'd rather be realistic than sipping the kool-aid. Being a "negative sissy" is better than being a blind homer who can't see problems with a team that are clear as day. Sadly, that's what the majority of Lakers fans are, thinking that just because we're the Los Angeles Lakers that everything will somehow work out for us.

 

We were bad in 2011 and it was evident by January, I remember so many fans on these forums saying it'll be fine! We're the Lakers, we're gonna turn on a switch and run right through the playoffs with no problem! Forget the fact that the team looked at average at best on both ends and Pau Gasol was less active offensively in the post than before. We squeaked by a New Orleans team that we should have destroyed, then we were obliterated by the Mavericks in the 2nd round due to the same issues we had all year long.

 

In 2012 it was obvious after a month that our Bynum-centric offense was doomed for failure because Bynum isn't a franchise center and can't have a system run through him. Denver figured this out mid-way through the 1st round and took us to 7 games, OKC took notes and made sure to push Bynum off the block and 2-3 feet out of his comfort zone, thus on an island where he looked completely confused. We were promptly smashed by the Thunder.

 

Let's not bother with this season, it was a complete trainwreck in every possible way.

 

All these signing were underrated until they put on the P&G and then became overrated to oblivion in the last month. Nick Young suddenly isn't the stupid chucker he's been his entire career, Farmar isn't a complete defensive liability anymore (and a mediocre all-around PG), Chris Kaman is no longer the slow-footed, injury prone center who's iffy to show up any given night, and Wesley Johnson went from journeyman underachiever to potential Kawhi-lite based on some of the posts here. It's ridiculous, and makes us look terribly stupid as a fanbase, but I'm used to it by now.

 

It's whatever though, once we reach the All-Star Break it should be clear as day how bad this team really is. Enjoy as much of the upcoming season as you can. Barring some incredible trade, it will be painful.



#70 BasketballIQ

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Posted August 10, 2013 - 09:42 AM

"Painful"?

#71 BleedPurple&Gold

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Posted August 10, 2013 - 09:50 AM

Guess what those teams with slow centers had? Players that could cover for them on both ends of the floor, defensive systems with the necessary personnel, good to great coaching, and superstars in their prime. Let's look at the last 3 years:

 

2013

 

East: Miami vs. Indiana, Miami has an amazing defensive system and the best player in the league, no one amazing at the center position, but they have an advantage going small with LeBron at the 4 which no other team in the league can boast. It dramatically shifts whatever lineups they can bring out because he's just that versatile on both ends of the floor. On the other hand Indiana has Roy Hibbert who is an excellent defensive anchor and Paul George is one of the best perimeter defenders (and is becoming one of the best players) in the league.

 

West: San Antonio vs. Memphis. San Antonio has Pop who put in another great year as a coach (until Game 5 of the Finals), the best offensive system in the league, Tony Parker is still in his prime, and they have a defensive scheme that players are committed to with defenders like Danny Green and Kawhi Leonard on the perimeter with Tim Duncan still being an obstacle in the paint. Memphis was the best defensive team for much of last season headlined by Marc Gasol, Tony Allen, Mike Conley and a coach in Lionel Hollins who was committed to their defensive system and focused on slowing the game down.

 

2012

 

East: Miami vs. Boston. Same info for Miami as before, Boston had years of chemistry with the Big 3 and Rondo, one of the better coaches in the league with Doc Rivers, a system that worked well on both ends of the floor, and Rondo who is a top 3 PG and probably the best defensive PG in the league.

 

West: San Antonio vs. Oklahoma City. Same info for San Antonio, OKC has two of the youngest stars in the league in Durant and Westbrook, Durant is the 2nd best player in the entire league, had James Harden and Serge Ibaka as their 3rd and 4th best players which speaks to their depth, Ibaka is one of the best help defenders in the league, and Scott Brooks isn't that good of a coach. They got by on a top heavy team with young talent that let them run through the West before meeting a buzzsaw in Miami.

 

2011

 

East: Chicago vs. Miami. Copy/paste Miami's info here, Chicago was led by a 22 year old Derrick Rose who put in an MVP-caliber season, had the best defensive coach in the league leading their team from the sideline in Tom Thibodeau, and had an awesome defensive system with the likes of Luol Deng on the perimeter with other roleplayers and Joakim Noah roaming the paint.

 

West: Dallas vs. OKC. Nothing new from OKC, same thing from 2012, but Dallas had Dirk Nowitzki (33 years old, maybe the last year of his prime) put in an all-time great effort through the postseason, a team full of competent roleplayers who were committed to playing defense, an offensive system that was efficient and a defensive system that was versatile (again, with COMMITTED personnel), and one of the best coaches in the league in Rick Carlisle. The other slow big men (Duncan, Gasol, Hibbert, Garnett) all all amongst the best defensive players in the league, with Duncan and Garnett in their primes being two of the best defensive anchors that the league has ever seen.

 

Common themes from Conference finalists? Good defensive systems, good coaching, and star players still in their prime. Oh hey, we don't have any of those. A slow center won't bog you down if you have an elite perimeter star commanding defensive attention on the offensive end of the floor or a system that can cover for them. Perkins is a terrible player, but OKC made two straight WCF because they had players to cover him defensively (Ibaka with the help defense, Sefolosha on the perimeter) and obviously had the trio of Durant/Westbrook/Harden to smash teams on the other end. And finally we had Tyson Chandler on the Mavs in '11 and Joakim Noah (who was plagued by foot problems) for the Bulls in '11. Both mobile big men, great interior defenders, great with P&R coverage, and both are completely committed on the defensive end of the floor.

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------

I'd rather be realistic than sipping the kool-aid. Being a "negative sissy" is better than being a blind homer who can't see problems with a team that are clear as day. Sadly, that's what the majority of Lakers fans are, thinking that just because we're the Los Angeles Lakers that everything will somehow work out for us.

 

We were bad in 2011 and it was evident by January, I remember so many fans on these forums saying it'll be fine! We're the Lakers, we're gonna turn on a switch and run right through the playoffs with no problem! Forget the fact that the team looked at average at best on both ends and Pau Gasol was less active offensively in the post than before. We squeaked by a New Orleans team that we should have destroyed, then we were obliterated by the Mavericks in the 2nd round due to the same issues we had all year long.

 

In 2012 it was obvious after a month that our Bynum-centric offense was doomed for failure because Bynum isn't a franchise center and can't have a system run through him. Denver figured this out mid-way through the 1st round and took us to 7 games, OKC took notes and made sure to push Bynum off the block and 2-3 feet out of his comfort zone, thus on an island where he looked completely confused. We were promptly smashed by the Thunder.

 

Let's not bother with this season, it was a complete trainwreck in every possible way.

 

All these signing were underrated until they put on the P&G and then became overrated to oblivion in the last month. Nick Young suddenly isn't the stupid chucker he's been his entire career, Farmar isn't a complete defensive liability anymore (and a mediocre all-around PG), Chris Kaman is no longer the slow-footed, injury prone center who's iffy to show up any given night, and Wesley Johnson went from journeyman underachiever to potential Kawhi-lite based on some of the posts here. It's ridiculous, and makes us look terribly stupid as a fanbase, but I'm used to it by now.

 

It's whatever though, once we reach the All-Star Break it should be clear as day how bad this team really is. Enjoy as much of the upcoming season as you can. Barring some incredible trade, it will be painful.

that was beautiful!


9888d4ba-ad6b-4879-93aa-9ef1c6ed1dbd_zps


#72 Harry Styles

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Posted August 10, 2013 - 01:24 PM

that was beautiful!

Wasn't it? I think I damn near shed tears of joy reading that. Someone with a brain that isn't a blind homer like some of the people on this site. This post needs to be enshrined in some Hall of Fame for forum posts. 



#73 BasketballIQ

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Posted August 10, 2013 - 02:05 PM

Why is Scott Brooks, "not that good"? Bc he isn't Pop? I bet you're under 21 acting like you REALLY know more than Scott Brooks. That's insulting. Fall back and understand that a coach like Scott Brooks has forgotten more about the NBA than you'll ever know.


As far as the Lakers post 2010.
2011 Kobe played on one knee for NO reason other than a high playoff seed. Led to a foot injury close to the playoffs and a re-injury situation after that.
When Kobe went from God to King in terms of skill level, Pau was exposed. Kobe couldn't create for everybody plus himself plus Pau, so Pau was proven to be 18/8, soft Memphis Pau.
2012
Kobe fractured his wrist and the lockout schedule was horrible for him considering the minutes and little recovery time.
By the playoffs, and to some extent even the first game against the Bulls, crucial late turnovers and quick guards and wingman making Kobe look old.

This season, besides bad 3 point shooting for long stretches , Kobe had a LEGIT case for 2nd best player in the league overall, and best clutch dramatic performer.

Created at a high level, defense was down but it's more his stamina being the issue. Phil wanted him to find ways to rest on defense but I think it's hard for people to accept that Kobe is not valuable as a "hustle" player. 4th quarter, Kibe was still one of the best, if not THE best Ido wing defender

#74 Jody Smokes

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Posted August 10, 2013 - 03:44 PM

Us being swept by Dallas the way we did had more to do with the way the team played as a whole and how well coached Dallas was than Kobe's knee. 

 

The Lakers failed, there aren't any excuses.  They havent been the best or even close to being the best team in the league since 2010.  Now those guys are 4 years older, no Bynum/D12, 0 defenders on wing...Kobe being the best wing defender is laughable.  He's solid at best now.  Let me know when Tony Allen, Shump, Avery Bradley, Lebron and Paul George have retired first.

Why is Scott Brooks, "not that good"? Bc he isn't Pop? I bet you're under 21 acting like you REALLY know more than Scott Brooks. That's insulting. Fall back and understand that a coach like Scott Brooks has forgotten more about the NBA than you'll ever know.


As far as the Lakers post 2010.
2011 Kobe played on one knee for NO reason other than a high playoff seed. Led to a foot injury close to the playoffs and a re-injury situation after that.
When Kobe went from God to King in terms of skill level, Pau was exposed. Kobe couldn't create for everybody plus himself plus Pau, so Pau was proven to be 18/8, soft Memphis Pau.
2012
Kobe fractured his wrist and the lockout schedule was horrible for him considering the minutes and little recovery time.
By the playoffs, and to some extent even the first game against the Bulls, crucial late turnovers and quick guards and wingman making Kobe look old.

This season, besides bad 3 point shooting for long stretches , Kobe had a LEGIT case for 2nd best player in the league overall, and best clutch dramatic performer.

Created at a high level, defense was down but it's more his stamina being the issue. Phil wanted him to find ways to rest on defense but I think it's hard for people to accept that Kobe is not valuable as a "hustle" player. 4th quarter, Kibe was still one of the best, if not THE best Ido wing defender


"Blake and Parker are good at canceling each other out till our bench point guard comes in"  - Majesty aka Bird Ish (12/4/13)


#75 Majesty

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Posted August 10, 2013 - 04:03 PM

Us being swept by Dallas the way we did had more to do with the way the team played as a whole and how well coached Dallas was than Kobe's knee. 

 

The Lakers failed, there aren't any excuses.  They havent been the best or even close to being the best team in the league since 2010.  Now those guys are 4 years older, no Bynum/D12, 0 defenders on wing...Kobe being the best wing defender is laughable.  He's solid at best now.  Let me know when Tony Allen, Shump, Avery Bradley, Lebron and Paul George have retired first.


LeBron's not a good wing defender.  He's a good help defender and a decent iso defender, but nothing special.  When matched up against a top small forward they always blow past him.  Even Paul Pierce.  Shump, Allen, Bradley and George are all better than him at that.


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#76 BasketballIQ

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Posted August 10, 2013 - 04:32 PM

Ask BJ if Kobe can defend, ask Kyrie, it's a host of players Kobe has SHUT down , in the crucial parts of games THIS past season.

#77 Jody Smokes

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Posted August 10, 2013 - 05:43 PM

Ok guy


LeBron's not a good wing defender.  He's a good help defender and a decent iso defender, but nothing special.  When matched up against a top small forward they always blow past him.  Even Paul Pierce.  Shump, Allen, Bradley and George are all better than him at that.


"Blake and Parker are good at canceling each other out till our bench point guard comes in"  - Majesty aka Bird Ish (12/4/13)


#78 Harry Styles

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Posted August 10, 2013 - 05:47 PM

Ask BJ if Kobe can defend, ask Kyrie, it's a host of players Kobe has SHUT down , in the crucial parts of games THIS past season.

Besides Brandon Jennings, I can't remember one star talent that Kobe has shut down. Kyrie traded baskets with him down the stretch when the Cavs won and scored 15 in their lost. He was hardly shut down. 



#79 BasketballIQ

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Posted August 10, 2013 - 06:21 PM

Besides Brandon Jennings, I can't remember one star talent that Kobe has shut down. Kyrie traded baskets with him down the stretch when the Cavs won and scored 15 in their lost. He was hardly shut down.


At the Cavs, Kobe was banged up, little rest and Kyrie wasn't supposed to play.


At Staples Kobe shut down Kyrie.


Wasnt only guy he stopped this season either.

#80 Majesty

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Posted August 10, 2013 - 06:41 PM

Alright let's go by percentages defensively

Against Kobe(I'll bold the two things he had trouble defending)

overall: 37.5%
Isolation: 32.3%

PnR Ball handler: 37.5%
Post up: 48%
PnR Roll Man: 54.5%
spot up: 37.5%
Off Screens: 36.1%
Hand off-: 37%

 

So all Kobe struggled to defend last year was in the post and against the roll man(usually power forwards and centers) so that's understandable.

aside from that he kept opponents in the 30% range of scoring against him.

Not bad.  

If you question his ability as an isolation defender this far into his career..I'll show you.

If we broke it down to schematics

Tony Allen in the iso was scored on 36% of the time compared to 32.3% of the time with Kobe
Paul George in the iso was scored on 38% of the time compared to 32.3% of the time with Kobe

LeBron James in the iso was scored on 37.5% of the time compared to 32.3% of the time with Kobe


Kobe's is still one of the top isolation wing defenders in the league. It's not a debate.

That's not where his issues defensively lay.  One on one he's still more than capable of shutting down players that try to isolate on him.  His problems this year defensively were on close out shooters, post ups, and stopping the roll man which I wouldn't expect him to as roll man's are usually power forwards and centers and asking Kobe to stop them would be a bit crazy.  Not only that but we were simultaneously asking him to be the main offensive option as well as guarding the best player on the floor last year.   The fact he was even able to put up those defensive numbers is staggering.

The WHOLE point of this off-season is to take some load off Kobe's shoulders offensively or defensively, that's why we got Nick Young(offensively) and Wesley Johnson(defensively), that's why we're targeting Beasley(offensively), Farmar(PnR point guard spending years overseas learning to run a pick and roll offense and a team) .

We were looking for guys that didn't require Kobe to have to force feed for ALL of their offense or guys that they could ask to defend the best player on the floor while Kobe takes initiative elsewhere.  And we signed Rambis to get EVERYONE involved defensively so that we NEVER ask Kobe "go defend the best player good luck."  again because it has to be a team defensive effort which is the opposite of what we ran last year.

This was the whole base of how we built our team.   That much is obvious by now.


Edited by Majesty, August 10, 2013 - 06:51 PM.

Is Wayne Brady gonna have to Djokovic? - Robert Flores 





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