Jump to content




Photo

Why the negativity?


  • Please log in to reply
110 replies to this topic

#41 Majesty

Majesty

    Grats on making the Raiderettes cuzzo!!

  • 35,853 posts
  • Joined: Dec 11, 2011
  • Name:Jay
  • Fan Since:1987
  • Fav. Laker:Kobe present, Magic past

Posted August 09, 2013 - 02:40 PM

This false sense of hope reminds me of the 2004-2005 season. I was there for opening night when Chris Mihn had a nice performance. Everyone was talking about how we were better without shaq. Team sucked. The lakers will probably not be better, short-term, without Howard. Long term they should be fine. I doubt that dantoni and the dudes on one year contracts will set the world in fire. Conversely I don't think the lakers will be the Los Angeles generals. Lakers make the 7-8 seed if they are lucky.



Nowhere near that bad and we were nowhere near as deep then as we are right now.


Is Wayne Brady gonna have to Djokovic? - Robert Flores 


#42 Harry Styles

Harry Styles

    King of Games

  • 1,418 posts
  • Joined: Jul 31, 2013
  • Name:Dilan
  • Fan Since:Birth
  • Fav. Laker:Kobe Bean Bryant

Posted August 09, 2013 - 02:45 PM

I just don't see how after losing Clark, Metta, and Dwight Howard and replacing them with Wesley Johnson, Nick Young, and Chris Kaman we're going to be better defensively. Kobe can only play solid defense for 2-3 possession spurts. Nash has never played defense and now he's another year older and still just as injury prone as he was the last few years. Chris Kaman is okay, but defensively he'll never come close to filling Dwight Howard's shoes.

Will adding Rambis suddenly make us better defensively? When he coached the T-wolves they were 29th and 30th in opponents ppg. Worst in the league. I understand those teams sucked, but how much better are we than them as far as defensive personnel goes?

I actually like the additions we made, I'm not trying to be negative. I'm just looking at the facts though, and what I see in front of me is an ancient, injury-prone core led by Mike D'Antoni and surrounded by average role players. I like Jordan Hill, Kaman is decent, Nick Young can maybe provide some offense, inconsistently. But that isn't good enough to make me optimistic about this season.

No Dwight. No Metta. No Clark. Aside from Hill and occasionally Kobe, where will the defense come from?

But Majesty said Kurt Rambis would make us better because he has such a great track record!! How could we be so bad on defense when we have the greatest defensive player of all time in Steve "Nashty" Nash and superstar talents Wes Johnson and Nick Young?! You're just a hater

/sarcasm



#43 zombeef

zombeef

    Rookie

  • 590 posts
  • Joined: Jul 27, 2012
  • Name:Daniel
  • Fan Since:1998
  • Fav. Laker:Kobe Bean Bryant

Posted August 09, 2013 - 02:45 PM

Sure did and I stand by that.  It was a diss but I respect his ability to articulate his positions as well.  Nothing wrong with taking digs every now and then but you have to be able to add bball related value to the debate.

 

How can you value his opinions AND stand by the fact that you think he shows fake optimism and is a Laker homer? Just trying to understand your thought process here. 



#44 LakerGeezer

LakerGeezer

    Off The Bench

  • 1,695 posts
  • Joined: Jan 06, 2013
  • Location:North Korea
  • Fan Since:1990
  • Fav. Laker:Dennis Rodman

Posted August 09, 2013 - 03:00 PM

Let's give it 20 games and see what we have.  Personally, I think if we are .500 that would be an accomplishment.   I expect more like 7-13, 8-12.  

 

Does the preseason matter this year?  I think so.  Lots of new faces, MDA needs it to fully install his "system", Rambis needs it to teach defense, So perhaps we will know alot more than we do now, even after just the preseason.



#45 KobeWillReturnTriumphant

KobeWillReturnTriumphant

    TheNefariousJim&HisSilverSpoon

  • 1,738 posts
  • Joined: Apr 01, 2012
  • Fan Since:Showtime
  • Fav. Laker:Magic/Kobe/Tony Smith

Posted August 09, 2013 - 03:47 PM



Nowhere near that bad and we were nowhere near as deep then as we are right now.


Chunky Atkins was better than Jordan Farmar.
Chris mihm= Chris kaman
Caron butler was better than nick young

Lamar and Kobe were both nearly ten years younger.

Rudy T had won two rings and MDA has won none.

#46 Majesty

Majesty

    Grats on making the Raiderettes cuzzo!!

  • 35,853 posts
  • Joined: Dec 11, 2011
  • Name:Jay
  • Fan Since:1987
  • Fav. Laker:Kobe present, Magic past

Posted August 09, 2013 - 03:58 PM

Chunky Atkins was better than Jordan Farmar.
Chris mihm= Chris kaman
Caron butler was better than nick young

Lamar and Kobe were both nearly ten years younger.

Rudy T had won two rings and MDA has won none.

 

189654d1363885092-hva-lytter-du-til-i-da

It's funny how you're naming our STARTERS back then and comparing them with our current BENCH backup center, backup shooting guard and our 3rd off the bench point guard who he still isn't better than.


Edited by Majesty, August 09, 2013 - 04:01 PM.

Is Wayne Brady gonna have to Djokovic? - Robert Flores 


#47 KobeWillReturnTriumphant

KobeWillReturnTriumphant

    TheNefariousJim&HisSilverSpoon

  • 1,738 posts
  • Joined: Apr 01, 2012
  • Fan Since:Showtime
  • Fav. Laker:Magic/Kobe/Tony Smith

Posted August 09, 2013 - 04:52 PM

I was just being glib. I don't have a lot of opportunities to use chucky Atkins and Chris mihm in a sentence. If they are better than A six seed, I will buy you a Tierre brown jersey.

Edited by KobeWillReturnTriumphant, August 09, 2013 - 04:52 PM.


#48 lakersince75

lakersince75

    Rookie

  • 1,340 posts
  • Joined: Jun 30, 2010
  • Fan Since:1975
  • Fav. Laker:Kareem Abdul Jabbar

Posted August 09, 2013 - 04:55 PM

And if you look at what he said, he was wrong. Atkins better than Farmar?? .Nope...Chris Mihm better than Kaman?? Mihm was horrible... Nick Young would embarrass Butler one on one.  And yes, that dude is comparing their starters to our current bench... I don't understand that at all. I know this. Unless everyone plays not to get hurt we'll do well. The only thing I worry about is not getting enough star calls by the referees 

189654d1363885092-hva-lytter-du-til-i-da

It's funny how you're naming our STARTERS back then and comparing them with our current BENCH backup center, backup shooting guard and our 3rd off the bench point guard who he still isn't better than.



#49 KobeWillReturnTriumphant

KobeWillReturnTriumphant

    TheNefariousJim&HisSilverSpoon

  • 1,738 posts
  • Joined: Apr 01, 2012
  • Fan Since:Showtime
  • Fav. Laker:Magic/Kobe/Tony Smith

Posted August 09, 2013 - 05:06 PM

Glib= superficial and without thought.

#50 Clutch Factor

Clutch Factor

    Starter

  • 5,279 posts
  • Joined: Jul 29, 2013
  • Fav. Laker:Kobe Bryant

Posted August 09, 2013 - 05:29 PM

And if you look at what he said, he was wrong. Atkins better than Farmar?? .Nope...Chris Mihm better than Kaman?? Mihm was horrible... Nick Young would embarrass Butler one on one.  And yes, that dude is comparing their starters to our current bench... I don't understand that at all. I know this. Unless everyone plays not to get hurt we'll do well. The only thing I worry about is not getting enough star calls by the referees 

 

I'd still take Butler over Young.



#51 Jody Smokes

Jody Smokes

    Starter

  • 5,437 posts
  • Joined: Jun 01, 2013
  • Fan Since:2003
  • Fav. Laker:Kobe

Posted August 09, 2013 - 05:35 PM

You're putting words in my mouth.  I said I RESPECT HIS ABILITY TO ARTICULATE HIS POSITION or OPINION.  I disagree with a lot he's says though.  The reason why I say he's fake optimistic is because he goes deep and wide to explain how a guy that has multiple years of being a certain way is finally now going to get it for whatever reason he deems convenient for his argument. 

 

Saying things like Nick Young a guy that will be 29 before the end of the season is going to reach his potential when we have 8 years of him being a chucker and overall poor bball IQ on both ends of the floor is crazy.  Saying a team that just lost 3 of its best defenders and replaced them with guys that are known defensive liabilities but somehow the great Kurt Rambis is going to magically make them solid defenders is fake optimistic to me.  It's stuff that he can't honestly believe himself when he's typing it. 

How can you value his opinions AND stand by the fact that you think he shows fake optimism and is a Laker homer? Just trying to understand your thought process here. 


"Blake and Parker are good at canceling each other out till our bench point guard comes in"  - Majesty aka Bird Ish (12/4/13)


#52 Clutch Factor

Clutch Factor

    Starter

  • 5,279 posts
  • Joined: Jul 29, 2013
  • Fav. Laker:Kobe Bryant

Posted August 09, 2013 - 05:43 PM

I can't wait for the season to start to see whose predictions come true. Honestly, parts of everyone's will come through. Maybe Majesty's right about Young and perhaps Jody's right about Rambis not being able to improve the defense with the given roster.



#53 zombeef

zombeef

    Rookie

  • 590 posts
  • Joined: Jul 27, 2012
  • Name:Daniel
  • Fan Since:1998
  • Fav. Laker:Kobe Bean Bryant

Posted August 09, 2013 - 05:44 PM

You're putting words in my mouth.  I said I RESPECT HIS ABILITY TO ARTICULATE HIS POSITION or OPINION.  I disagree with a lot he's says though.  The reason why I say he's fake optimistic is because he goes deep and wide to explain how a guy that has multiple years of being a certain way is finally now going to get it for whatever reason he deems convenient for his argument. 

 

Saying things like Nick Young a guy that will be 29 before the end of the season is going to reach his potential when we have 8 years of him being a chucker and overall poor bball IQ on both ends of the floor is crazy.  Saying a team that just lost 3 of its best defenders and replaced them with guys that are known defensive liabilities but somehow the great Kurt Rambis is going to magically make them solid defenders is fake optimistic to me.  It's stuff that he can't honestly believe himself when he's typing it. 

 

Yes, you can value someone's opinion, but respectfully disagree. I don't see how I put anything in your mouth when it's so busy saying what I said. Your assumptions about people seem pretty horrific, too, that you think people are ready to share opinions that they themselves happen to NOT believe in. That is some psychosis gymnastics that you yourself aren't qualified to offer about strangers on-line. 


Edited by zombeef, August 09, 2013 - 05:44 PM.


#54 Majesty

Majesty

    Grats on making the Raiderettes cuzzo!!

  • 35,853 posts
  • Joined: Dec 11, 2011
  • Name:Jay
  • Fan Since:1987
  • Fav. Laker:Kobe present, Magic past

Posted August 09, 2013 - 06:00 PM

You're putting words in my mouth.  I said I RESPECT HIS ABILITY TO ARTICULATE HIS POSITION or OPINION.  I disagree with a lot he's says though.  The reason why I say he's fake optimistic is because he goes deep and wide to explain how a guy that has multiple years of being a certain way is finally now going to get it for whatever reason he deems convenient for his argument. 

 

Saying things like Nick Young a guy that will be 29 before the end of the season is going to reach his potential when we have 8 years of him being a chucker and overall poor bball IQ on both ends of the floor is crazy.  Saying a team that just lost 3 of its best defenders and replaced them with guys that are known defensive liabilities but somehow the great Kurt Rambis is going to magically make them solid defenders is fake optimistic to me.  It's stuff that he can't honestly believe himself when he's typing it. 


And you are of the assumption that on a team with a lesser role and being fed wide open shots that it won't bring the best out of Young and you think that he will chuck the same amount of shots he did in Washington.

When the truth is his shot selection goes DOWN when he plays a diminished role off the bench.

I also said that Kobe has a habit of pushing people and at times brings the best out of them if they can handle it.

To act like being in camp with a guy like Kobe isn't gonna improve his game especially since he wants to learn from Kobe how to take his game to the next level.  

So if he(young) is coming into camp with the mentality of wanting to learn from Kobe and wanting to take his game to the next level then I'm not gonna sit back and say "no amount of tutelage from Kobe is going to help Nick Young become a better player!" because that to me is an ignorant way of thinking no offense.    Trying to act like guys can't get "better" no matter what kind of guidance they get is a defeatist way of looking at it.   If Nick is coming here to learn from Kobe and wants to take his game to that next level there's no reason to think he won't apply himself to doing that and will have a better year.

Did I say he'll be an all-star?  No.   But he'll be effective and probably have one of the most productive years he's had for a while.  

Not to mention he'll be getting more wide open shots than he's ever gotten and he won't have to create offense in iso as much as he had to on any of his other teams, save for the Clippers, the system also works for a player like him.

I have no reason to think he won't be productive on this team especially if he's coming here with the intent of Kobe helping him become a better player and teaching him things unless he proves otherwise during the season and I don't sale short his scoring ability. 

The true fact is he's the most skilled iso wing scorer Kobe has had next to him since I don't know when.

But when I say that you get so SO offended when I say that you start breaking down everything Nick Young is bad at yet when I ask you to mention a wing iso-player that was a better scorer at the same time with Kobe Bryant you can't. 

So that's why I think you're defeatest.  You'll look at my point about Nick Young being the best iso wing player and wing scorer Kobe has had beside him for a LONG time if at all.   

You constantly tear down Nick Young. 

I ask you to name a better iso wing scorer on Nick Young's level that has played beside Kobe.

You can't.

So you constantly just keep naming things wrong with him.

Disagreeing is fine but if you get called on it, don't keep repeating the same argument, if you can't name a wing scorer as skilled as Nick Young that has been beside Kobe just admit that :)   Because that's the entire point I was trying to prove.

But don't put words in my mouth saying I think Nick Young is for sure gonna reach his potential or that. I said he "could if he applies himself" and that if he doesn't he'll be gone after this year.




And as far as Rambis' defense goes. 

If you pay attention to the defensive schemes that Rambis specializes in, they are strong size zone.


Strong side zone is key for players like Kaman and Gasol because it masks their slow lateral movement and makes them less easy to take advantage of.

The defense we ran before was sticking people on an island and iso'ing while never rotating to help each other.

If you think Rambis isn't gonna give us a better defensive scheme than that then I am going to disagree.

You seem to think everything is so set in stone that it shall always be the way you say it's going to be, yet when facts are actually brought to you in terms of how schemes are ran and how they can be used to different advantages for certain players either offensively or defensively you shrug it off and repeat the same rhetoric.

Not once have you named an iso scorer better than Nick Young at the wing that has played beside Kobe Bryant in the past few years.      Yet you bash Nick Young at every turn.

Not once have you broken down WHY Rambis' defensive schemes will do nothing for our team and why the strong side zone will be useless for Gasol and Kaman and Hill or the team as a whole.

You just constantly say "It wont work! It wont work! It won't work!"

yet when someone breaks down how something could be used within these schemes in order TO work.

Rather than come with a reverse argument as to why it won't you repeat your same debunked argument over and over again.

Those are the only problems I have with you honestly.

But I respect your opinion.


Edited by Majesty, August 09, 2013 - 06:04 PM.

Is Wayne Brady gonna have to Djokovic? - Robert Flores 


#55 Harry Styles

Harry Styles

    King of Games

  • 1,418 posts
  • Joined: Jul 31, 2013
  • Name:Dilan
  • Fan Since:Birth
  • Fav. Laker:Kobe Bean Bryant

Posted August 09, 2013 - 06:38 PM


And you are of the assumption that on a team with a lesser role and being fed wide open shots that it won't bring the best out of Young and you think that he will chuck the same amount of shots he did in Washington.

When the truth is his shot selection goes DOWN when he plays a diminished role off the bench.

I also said that Kobe has a habit of pushing people and at times brings the best out of them if they can handle it.

To act like being in camp with a guy like Kobe isn't gonna improve his game especially since he wants to learn from Kobe how to take his game to the next level.  

So if he(young) is coming into camp with the mentality of wanting to learn from Kobe and wanting to take his game to the next level then I'm not gonna sit back and say "no amount of tutelage from Kobe is going to help Nick Young become a better player!" because that to me is an ignorant way of thinking no offense.    Trying to act like guys can't get "better" no matter what kind of guidance they get is a defeatist way of looking at it.   If Nick is coming here to learn from Kobe and wants to take his game to that next level there's no reason to think he won't apply himself to doing that and will have a better year.

Did I say he'll be an all-star?  No.   But he'll be effective and probably have one of the most productive years he's had for a while.  

Not to mention he'll be getting more wide open shots than he's ever gotten and he won't have to create offense in iso as much as he had to on any of his other teams, save for the Clippers, the system also works for a player like him.

I have no reason to think he won't be productive on this team especially if he's coming here with the intent of Kobe helping him become a better player and teaching him things unless he proves otherwise during the season and I don't sale short his scoring ability. 

The true fact is he's the most skilled iso wing scorer Kobe has had next to him since I don't know when.

But when I say that you get so SO offended when I say that you start breaking down everything Nick Young is bad at yet when I ask you to mention a wing iso-player that was a better scorer at the same time with Kobe Bryant you can't. 

So that's why I think you're defeatest.  You'll look at my point about Nick Young being the best iso wing player and wing scorer Kobe has had beside him for a LONG time if at all.   

You constantly tear down Nick Young. 

I ask you to name a better iso wing scorer on Nick Young's level that has played beside Kobe.

You can't.

So you constantly just keep naming things wrong with him.

Disagreeing is fine but if you get called on it, don't keep repeating the same argument, if you can't name a wing scorer as skilled as Nick Young that has been beside Kobe just admit that :)   Because that's the entire point I was trying to prove.

But don't put words in my mouth saying I think Nick Young is for sure gonna reach his potential or that. I said he "could if he applies himself" and that if he doesn't he'll be gone after this year.




And as far as Rambis' defense goes. 

If you pay attention to the defensive schemes that Rambis specializes in, they are strong size zone.


Strong side zone is key for players like Kaman and Gasol because it masks their slow lateral movement and makes them less easy to take advantage of.

The defense we ran before was sticking people on an island and iso'ing while never rotating to help each other.

If you think Rambis isn't gonna give us a better defensive scheme than that then I am going to disagree.

You seem to think everything is so set in stone that it shall always be the way you say it's going to be, yet when facts are actually brought to you in terms of how schemes are ran and how they can be used to different advantages for certain players either offensively or defensively you shrug it off and repeat the same rhetoric.

Not once have you named an iso scorer better than Nick Young at the wing that has played beside Kobe Bryant in the past few years.      Yet you bash Nick Young at every turn.

Not once have you broken down WHY Rambis' defensive schemes will do nothing for our team and why the strong side zone will be useless for Gasol and Kaman and Hill or the team as a whole.

You just constantly say "It wont work! It wont work! It won't work!"

yet when someone breaks down how something could be used within these schemes in order TO work.

Rather than come with a reverse argument as to why it won't you repeat your same debunked argument over and over again.

Those are the only problems I have with you honestly.

But I respect your opinion.

In Caron Butler's one year with the Lakers, he was more efficient offensively and defensively than Nick Young has been his entire career. So yes, Kobe has played with another capable wing player on his team. It's gonna take the Lakers giving up 105 pts a game for you to realize Rambis isn't all he's cracked up to be. 


Edited by Harry Styles, August 09, 2013 - 07:28 PM.


#56 L.A.K.E.R

L.A.K.E.R

    Gomu Gomu

  • 14,755 posts
  • Joined: Jul 24, 2008
  • Location:California
  • Name:Shamim
  • Fan Since:2000
  • Fav. Laker:Kobe Bryant

Posted August 09, 2013 - 06:58 PM

The reality is that this team has a bad roster, with a bad coach, with an old core, and it's best player is coming off the biggest injury of his career. And it's not just losing 23/14 and gaining 16/8, this isn't a basketball simulation. We lost Dwight Howard and gained Chris Kaman, who is a downgrade an almost every aspect of the game. So it's not just negativity, it's the reality that this team isn't very good at all. Once people understand this, it'll be less of a shock when we struggle next season and lose a ton of games.

 

.500+ without Kobe? No chance in hell unless the NBA somehow gave us 20 games versus the Bobcats in the first month. Even then, I don't like our chances.



#57 Windu

Windu

    Shatterpoint

  • 42,999 posts
  • Joined: Apr 24, 2009
  • Name:Will
  • Fan Since:1999
  • Fav. Laker:Kobe

Posted August 09, 2013 - 07:03 PM

Watch some football gentlemen


Pau Gasol is GONE


#58    

   

  • 40,365 posts
  • Joined: Aug 26, 2010

Posted August 09, 2013 - 07:04 PM

We lost Dwight Howard and gained Chris Kaman, who is a downgrade an almost every aspect of the game.

Kaman actually has an outside shot. Kaman shoots almost 80% from the free throw line (won't have to worry about Hack-a-Dwight costing us anymore). Those are at least two nice advantages.


Edited by    , August 09, 2013 - 07:05 PM.

yo.


#59 L.A.K.E.R

L.A.K.E.R

    Gomu Gomu

  • 14,755 posts
  • Joined: Jul 24, 2008
  • Location:California
  • Name:Shamim
  • Fan Since:2000
  • Fav. Laker:Kobe Bryant

Posted August 09, 2013 - 07:14 PM

Kaman actually has an outside shot. Kaman shoots almost 80% from the free throw line (won't have to worry about Hack-a-Dwight costing us anymore). Those are at least two nice advantages.

 

Defense, quickness, athleticism, inside dominance, P&R coverage, the list goes on and on.

 

He doesn't score as much as Dwight (or get as many attempts) nor does he shoot anywhere near as much from the FT line for that to be a relevant factor. He's averaged a little under 2 FTA per game the last 3 years, whereas Dwight has MADE on average about 6 per game in that same time. FT percentage isn't the only factor, the volume of attempts is more relevant in the majority of cases.

 

I really don't see a game ever coming down to Chris Kaman making free throws. If he's played big minutes to that point, we're probably already down 15+ from the number of lay-ups we've given up.



#60 Harry Styles

Harry Styles

    King of Games

  • 1,418 posts
  • Joined: Jul 31, 2013
  • Name:Dilan
  • Fan Since:Birth
  • Fav. Laker:Kobe Bean Bryant

Posted August 09, 2013 - 07:30 PM

Defense, quickness, athleticism, inside dominance, P&R coverage, the list goes on and on.

 

He doesn't score as much as Dwight (or get as many attempts) nor does he shoot anywhere near as much from the FT line for that to be a relevant factor. He's averaged a little under 2 FTA per game the last 3 years, whereas Dwight has MADE on average about 6 per game in that same time. FT percentage isn't the only factor, the volume of attempts is more relevant in the majority of cases.

 

I really don't see a game ever coming down to Chris Kaman making free throws. If he's played big minutes to that point, we're probably already down 15+ from the number of lay-ups we've given up.

I don't know why I laughed so much at this. Maybe because it's so true  :no:






0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users