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Wilt Chamberlain vs. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar (Archived Footage)


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#21 JTF

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Posted October 05, 2013 - 02:29 AM

MAJESTY: A few thoughts.

 

You state, "So you want to go prime vs prime now?" Actually, I compared the skills of Wilt and Kareem in their respective primes in my 2nd post on this thread. Your claim that each player had "distinctly different roles," defies history. Wilt's role for the Warriors/76ers and Kareem's role for the Bucks were the SAME. Each player was relied upon to be their team's top scorer, rebounder, and shot blocker.

 

The FACT (e.g., individual statistics) is that a prime Wilt did ALL of those things better than a prime Kareem. We all know the remarkable statistics put up by Wilt in the regular season in his first 7 seasons which includes averaging 39.6 points a game, but what is forgotten was how dominant he was in the post-season in that time span.

 

In his first 7 seasons, he led his team to the playoffs 6 times. In 6 post-season appearances, Wilt averaged 32.8 points, 26.6 rebounds, and shot .505 from the field in a league that shot .426 in that time span. If you add his first championship season to the mix, Wilt averaged 30.4 points, 27.0 rebounds, 4.5 assists, and shot .515 from the field. No player in NBA history had a 33/26 and/or a 30/27 post-season series, yet Wilt averaged that over the course of 6/7 post-seasons.

 

You claim that Wilt didn't play against any 7 footers in his prime, but later backtracked on that claim by pointing out that Swede Halbrook was a 7 footer (e.g., Swede was 7'3"). Unfortunately, you forgot about Walter Dukes who was 7'0". In that same train of thought, you stated that I shouldn't "act like it isn't true." Well, acting isn't necessary when it is a documented FACT that Wilt played against TWO 7 footers in his prime. Including Wilt, 2 of the 9 starting centers during the 1961-1962 season were 7 feet tall. HOF center Walt Bellamy was 6'11", HOF center Bill Russell and Darrall Imhoff were 6'10", HOF center Clyde Lovelette was 6'9", 3 Time All-Star Johnny Kerr was 6'9", and 5 Time All-Star Wayne Embry was 6'8" and 270 pounds.

 

You also continue to play psychic and comment on my alleged hidden motivations in posting on this topic. You're certainly entitled to your opinion on this matter, but they are nothing more than claims and repeating the same claims doesn't enhance their veracity. I make no mention in any of my posts that Wilt dominated Kareem in head to head match-ups. That position is your own personal concoction. What I did say is that Wilt outplayed Kareem in 7 of 11 post-season games. If one does the math correctly, Wilt won the head to head post-season battle 7-4. If your one-sided charges had any merit, I would have claimed that Wilt outplayed Kareem in 9 or 10 of the 11 post-season match-ups.

 

Speaking of post-season match-ups, you state that Wilt outplayed Kareem in 3 of the 5 games in the 1971 WCF, yet cannot contain your frustration with my claim that Wilt outplayed in 4 of the 5 games. Huh? Sounds like we're almost on the same page on this issue, yet you use Game 4 of the series as some sort of rebuttal. This is quite bizarre when you consider the FACT that I agree that this is the one game in that series where Kareem outplayed Wilt. In addition, you use Game 1 as another example of how I'm wrong about my assessment of this series.

 

I guess you didn't take a gander at the far right end of the stat line which reads, Wilt 8 blocked shots and Kareem 1 blocked shot. I know. I know. According to your logic, reporters who covered the games don't know squat, but when you score 22 points, grab 20 rebounds, and block 8 shots, you've played a fantastic all around game. At best, Kareem and Wilt fought to a standstill in Game 1, but I'm a sucker for the musings of those who were actually present at the game.

 

Finally, you state that Kareem outplayed Wilt 4 games to 1 in the 1972 WCF. Actually, this series went 6 games, not 5. IMO, your assessments of the games lack context, but when you ignore the reports of those who covered the games... again, when you go game by game, it is clear that Wilt dominated Kareem in the 4th quarter of Games 3, 5, and 6. This dominance led to 3 of the 4 Laker wins. The Lakers won game 3 by 3 points and the main reason was that Wilt held Kareem scoreless for the last 11 minutes of the contest. In Game 6, the Lakers were down by 10 points in the 4th quarter, yet Wilt's "ball-busting" performance down the stretch resulted in a 4 point victory. The individual stat lines don't provide the proper perspective on why the Lakers defeated the Bucks in Games 3, 5, and 6.

 

The simple fact is that you feel that Kareem was a better player than Wilt. I disagree, but their match-up is certainly fodder for debate. That's what happens when you compare 2 of the 5 greatest players in NBA history.



#22 kball

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Posted October 05, 2013 - 05:59 AM

JTF- I just joined forum, although fan since 70-71. Do me a favor and post in more topics unless you dont enjoy or watch the team lately. I really enjoy your writing in this thread.

 

Not the pssing match as much as the historical info brought back to life.

 

I want to mention that wilt left the lakers on awful terms. Perhaps u can fill us in on the details if you know them.

One year 3 or 4 years ago, laker tickets had ALL the former and then current greats on them spread out over the 41 home games plus 2 preseason. But no sign of Wilt among them. I concluded that his estate didn't give permission for his likeness to be used. Couldnt fathom any other reason for him to be left out. I mean chuck nevitt sure, but not Wilt.


Edited by kball, October 05, 2013 - 06:10 AM.

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#23 kball

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Posted October 05, 2013 - 06:31 AM

Awaiting Big O vs. Mr. Clutch debate  :clap2:

 

BTW I give slight edge alltime to wilt over kareem, oscar over west, jordan over kobe, and maybe even bird over magic (which hurts the most and im still on the fence here)...but by the smallest of margins in each.


Edited by kball, October 05, 2013 - 06:35 AM.

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#24 Majesty

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Posted October 05, 2013 - 07:33 AM

MAJESTY: A few thoughts.

 

You state, "So you want to go prime vs prime now?" Actually, I compared the skills of Wilt and Kareem in their respective primes in my 2nd post on this thread. Your claim that each player had "distinctly different roles," defies history. Wilt's role for the Warriors/76ers and Kareem's role for the Bucks were the SAME. Each player was relied upon to be their team's top scorer, rebounder, and shot blocker.

 

 

It was not the same.  The Bucks never required Kareem to have to shoot the ball 30+ times over the first 9 years of his career, we've gone through this.   Kareem was relied on as a focal point but not to the extremes that Wilt was asked, a lot has to do with the times, a lot also has to do with the fact of the teams around them. 

You cannot make Wilt's role when he got into the league THE SAME as Kareem's when he came into the league.

That's like saying that Jameer Nelson being the main offensive option on the Magic now is the exact same as Kobe being the main offensive option on the Lakers when Shaq wasn't there.

Two completely different things are asked from two completely different squads. 

Wilt had to shoot the ball nearly 30+ times a game for the first 9 years of his career!

There was nothing Kareem was ever asked to do offensively on that level because he never had to be asked to do that.  So you can't make it as black and white as that, as I already pointed that out to begin with in the last response to you.  Moving onward.

 

The FACT (e.g., individual statistics) is that a prime Wilt did ALL of those things better than a prime Kareem. We all know the remarkable statistics put up by Wilt in the regular season in his first 7 seasons which includes averaging 39.6 points a game, but what is forgotten was how dominant he was in the post-season in that time span.


Again, this is attributed to the time Wilt played in, the fact he was the only actual rebounder on his team, and the fact that he needed to get 30 shots a game to keep them in it, and often if you listen to the reports back then, they would just feed him the ball and he'd stuff his stats even when losses weren't in question(the biggest example of this was his 100 point game) but that's beside the point.

Kareem was never asked to have to shoot the ball 33+ times a game, and the season he averaged 37.6 not 39.6 points a game he had to shoot the ball 32 times to accomplish that, this is 32 shots, and the year he averaged 50 he had to average 39.5 shots a game THAT'S ALMOST 40 SHOTS TAKEN PER GAME!!

Nowhere in Kareems career was he asked to do that much offensively, one because it was a different time period and secondly his team didn't need it of him.   But you cannot use that and say Kareem COULDN'T have done it.     If Kareem shot 40 shots a game what do you think he'd average?  ask yourself that :)

 

moving on

 

In his first 7 seasons, he led his team to the playoffs 6 times. In 6 post-season appearances, Wilt averaged 32.8 points, 26.6 rebounds, and shot .505 from the field in a league that shot .426 in that time span. If you add his first championship season to the mix, Wilt averaged 30.4 points, 27.0 rebounds, 4.5 assists, and shot .515 from the field. No player in NBA history had a 33/26 and/or a 30/27 post-season series, yet Wilt averaged that over the course of 6/7 post-seasons.

 

 

Yep, Wilt was the only guy on his team and his feats were amazing, he trumps Kareem in rebounding, but trying to say that Kareem isn't as prolific a scorer just because of Wilts numbers is a bit of a misnomer.  Again I pointed this out numerous times, no team was ever built around Kareem that required him to have to shoot the ball 40 times a night, and the game had changed by that point significantly where that kind of stuff didn't happen.  Wilt was the perfect athlete at the perfect time in the perfect place to do what he did, and he is one of the greatest to ever do it.

But ask yourself.  If Kareem had been around in Wilt's era(those first 9 years) I'd argue their numbers would have been virtually identical in that aspect.  ESPECIALLY if Kareem had to take 40 shots a game. I'd stress to say he'd average more points in my opinion.  So there's that as well.

 

You claim that Wilt didn't play against any 7 footers in his prime, but later backtracked on that claim by pointing out that Swede Halbrook was a 7 footer (e.g., Swede was 7'3"). Unfortunately, you forgot about Walter Dukes who was 7'0". In that same train of thought, you stated that I shouldn't "act like it isn't true." Well, acting isn't necessary when it is a documented FACT that Wilt played against TWO 7 footers in his prime. Including Wilt, 2 of the 9 starting centers during the 1961-1962 season were 7 feet tall. HOF center Walt Bellamy was 6'11", HOF center Bill Russell and Darrall Imhoff were 6'10", HOF center Clyde Lovelette was 6'9", 3 Time All-Star Johnny Kerr was 6'9", and 5 Time All-Star Wayne Embry was 6'8" and 270 pounds.

 

Ah yes, Walter Dukes, the guy who lead the NBA in foul outs.. 

You forget I mentioned that the reason that some of these guys weren't known and Wilt was is because of his talent.


BOTH of those 7 footers couldn't carry Wilt's jock and for good reason, Wilt was the athletic freak of his time WITH the skill to back it up and came along in the perfect era for that 9 year stretch.     

Ah yes Walt Bellamy, we all know that story, how Wilt told a rookie Bellamy who was considered a phoenom averaging 30 ppg he wouldn't score in the first half and he didn't as Wilt swatted 8 or 9 of his first shots.   That's a fantastic story.

 

There is no doubt that Wilt had everything especially in the era he came around in, he was the biggest and the strongest BUT he was also the most skilled in HIS ERA and that made a heck of a lot of difference.  The problem was those like Russell understood the 'team concept' more than he did which is why he could get Russell statistically but never beat him in the finals.

But when you consider the fact that Russel had about 9 other hall of famers on his team and Wilts teams lost those games by an average of 3 or 4 points which means Wilt nearly beat 9 hall of famers by himself you realize how skilled he was and how much a prolific scorer he could be.

 

Thing is, the only person that matches him or even comes close in peoples minds is Kareem.    If Kareem was around in Wilt's era, prime for prime, their numbers would be near identical and their matchups would have been as give and take as one would imagine.   Can you name anyone else that you could say Wilt "held" defensively that still dropped 33 on him on average?  You won't find many as defense was the LAST thing to leave Wilt. 

 

 

You also continue to play psychic and comment on my alleged hidden motivations in posting on this topic. You're certainly entitled to your opinion on this matter, but they are nothing more than claims and repeating the same claims doesn't enhance their veracity. I make no mention in any of my posts that Wilt dominated Kareem in head to head match-ups. That position is your own personal concoction. What I did say is that Wilt outplayed Kareem in 7 of 11 post-season games. If one does the math correctly, Wilt won the head to head post-season battle 7-4. If your one-sided charges had any merit, I would have claimed that Wilt outplayed Kareem in 9 or 10 of the 11 post-season match-ups.



No I pretty much showed you where Kareem outplayed him.  

Wilt won the 71 matchups 3 games to 2 imo and Kareem won the 72 matchups 5 games to 1.  Since you wanted to point out my missaying of a number just like you misquoted how many points Wilt averaged above.  So I'll chalk it up as an oversight on your part. 

So to me in post season matchups Kareem outplayed him 7-4. 

YOU say that Wilt won it 7-4,  I say Kareem won it 7-4.  This is going to go on forever because I've already shown you why he outplayed him and the fact you tried to pass off THREE of those games as Wilt matchup wins before I put the actual numbers in front of you.

 

Which were games 3,5 and 6 I put in front of you in 72

GAME 3

 

Fri 04/14/72
- Chamberlain 7 pts, 14 rebs, 4 as, 10 blocks, 1-3 FG/FGA – 6 blocks against Jabbar W
-Abdul-Jabbar 33 pts, 21 rebs, 6 as, * blocks, 15-37 FG/FGA L

 

 

GAME 5

Tue 04/18/72
- Chamberlain 12 pts, 26 rebs, 6 as, * blocks, 2-3 FG/FGA - 4 blocks against Jabbar W
-Abdul-Jabbar 28 pts, 16 rebs, 3 as, * blocks, 13-33 FG/FGA L

 

GAME 6

Sat 04/22/72
- Chamberlain 20 pts, 24 rebs, 2 as, 9 blocks, 8-12 FG/FGA - 3 blocks and 2 steals against Jabbar W
-Abdul-Jabbar 37 pts, 25 rebs, 8 as, * blocks, 16-37 FG/FGA L

 

and the other one you assumed that  Wilt outplayed Kareem was the game 1 of 1971 where it was this

 

Chamberlain 22 pts, 20 rebs, 1 as, 8 blocks, 10-19 FG/FGA – 3 blocks against Jabbar L
Abdul-Jabbar 32 pts, 22 rebs, 1 as, 1 blocks, 14-30 FG/FGA W

Obviously I feel Kareem won all 4 of these matchups BUT I gave you game 6 in 72 to make it 5-1 in 72.

 


We're obviously never going to agree on their matchups here as arguments have been made both ways by the both of us and rehashed and is getting us nowhere. 

 

 

Speaking of post-season match-ups, you state that Wilt outplayed Kareem in 3 of the 5 games in the 1971 WCF, yet cannot contain your frustration with my claim that Wilt outplayed in 4 of the 5 games. Huh? Sounds like we're almost on the same page on this issue, yet you use Game 4 of the series as some sort of rebuttal. This is quite bizarre when you consider the FACT that I agree that this is the one game in that series where Kareem outplayed Wilt. In addition, you use Game 1 as another example of how I'm wrong about my assessment of this series.




Correct.  WE agree on the one game in 71 that Kareem won.  What we do NOT agree on is game 1. 

 

I guess you didn't take a gander at the far right end of the stat line which reads, Wilt 8 blocked shots and Kareem 1 blocked shot. I know. I know. According to your logic, reporters who covered the games don't know squat, but when you score 22 points, grab 20 rebounds, and block 8 shots, you've played a fantastic all around game. At best, Kareem and Wilt fought to a standstill in Game 1, but I'm a sucker for the musings of those who were actually present at the game.



Fantastic all around game yet I think Kareem had a better one. 

To you 

Chamberlain 22 pts, 20 rebs, 1 as, 8 blocks, 10-19 FG/FGA  L

is better than

Abdul-Jabbar 32 pts, 22 rebs, 1 as, 1 blocks, 14-30 FG/FGA W 

And I disagree with you.   We'll just have to disagree here.

 

Finally, you state that Kareem outplayed Wilt 4 games to 1 in the 1972 WCF. Actually, this series went 6 games, not 5. IMO, your assessments of the games lack context, but when you ignore the reports of those who covered the games... again, when you go game by game, it is clear that Wilt dominated Kareem in the 4th quarter of Games 3, 5, and 6. This dominance led to 3 of the 4 Laker wins. The Lakers won game 3 by 3 points and the main reason was that Wilt held Kareem scoreless for the last 11 minutes of the contest. In Game 6, the Lakers were down by 10 points in the 4th quarter, yet Wilt's "ball-busting" performance down the stretch resulted in a 4 point victory. The individual stat lines don't provide the proper perspective on why the Lakers defeated the Bucks in Games 3, 5, and 6.


misstype, just like when you stated Wilt averaged 39.6 when it was actually 37.6.  Not gonna get on about that because everything else in that argument shows why. 

And like I said the one thing you keep forgetting is how the Bucks offense basically became pretty obvious and one sided once Robertson was gone.  Which is something you don't want to talk about.

You mention how we need to "take into account what was asked of the players, the roles etc' when considering what the players didn't have.       Basically whenever Oscar was able to be any bit of himself the Bucks blew out the Lakers that year, Kareem as well, because their offense didn't become predictable.

 

Point is, when Oscar was out of it, the offense basically became about Kareem forcing up shots which was not his thing, at that point the offense became obvious.  AND IF you are dealing with a defender like Wilt, if you're only gonna go one way he knows what it's going to be as it gives him nothing to guess to and when he has nothing to guess to he can hold you.   The fact that Wilt the great defender knew basically from game 1 onward what Kareem was going to do when Oscar wasn't himself and Kareem still averaged 33 on him each night is remarkable and shouldn't be discredited.

There's a reason why Kareem scored a bulk of his 37 in game 6 on top of Wilts head in the first half at over 50% shooting that Robertson played and then suddenly when he had to force up shots Wilt was able to hold him, because Oscar didn't play the 2nd half.  The offense became stagnant and everything basically had to become about Kareem forcing up shots.     If Oscar makes that 2nd half and the offense doesn't have to change to the obvious, the series likely goes 7 and then who knows.  That is why a lot of Milwaukee fans hold a sour taste in their mouth over it as Oscar not only was able to hold Jerry West but him and Kareem seemed to be the answer for what the Lakers threw out.   Each game was guessed by an average of about 2 or points aside from the 2 blowouts by the Bucks and one by the Lakers.   I give Wilt credit for his defensive efforts in them, however when Oscar could no longer go, what the offense was going to be became obvious if Wilt hadn't been able to scout that he wouldn't have been such the great defender he was.  

 

So eventhough Wilt knew from game 1 onward what was going to happen and what the offense would become(I am guessing this because I think Wilt was a brilliant defender and scouter and knew pretty much once Oscar was out of it for the most part that all offense would be forced through Kareem), and knew precisely how to play Kareem, Kareem still dropped 33 on him on average.  I don't care who you are but dropping 33 ppg on Wilt Chamberlain in the playoffs when he knows for 5 of the 6 games what the offense is gonna be is astounding.

And not to be glanced over.

 

The simple fact is that you feel that Kareem was a better player than Wilt. I disagree, but their match-up is certainly fodder for debate. That's what happens when you compare 2 of the 5 greatest players in NBA history.



That is something I agree with.  Agree to disagree.


All-time I go with Kareem over Wilt too, because of his longevity as well as my own personal opinions I've already shared here.  But that's another debate entirely.


Edited by Majesty, October 05, 2013 - 07:35 AM.

 

I've always liked Steve Blake.

 


#25 JTF

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Posted October 05, 2013 - 08:42 AM

MAJESTY: Minor point, but you stated that my listing of Wilt averaging 39.6 points in his first 7 regular seasons was a mistake, and most likely a "misstype." I double checked that statistic and it is accurate. From 1959-1966, Wilt averaged 39.6 points a game.

You also stated that in that same time period, Wilt's teams only made it to the 2nd round of the playoffs. Actually, Wilt led the San Francisco Warriors to the 1964 NBA Finals. The following are Wilt's playoff stat lines against All-Star center Zelmo Beaty and HOF center Bill Russell.

Warriors VS Hawks

Game 1  37 points  22 rebounds
Game 2  28 points  27 rebounds 13 blocks
Game 3  46 points  23 rebounds
Game 4  36 points  23 rebounds
Game 5  50 points  15 rebounds 6 assists
Game 6  34 points  24 rebounds
Game 7  39 points  30 rebounds 12 blocks

Series Average  38.5 points  23.4 rebounds

Warriors VS Celtics

Game 1  22 points  23 rebounds
Game 2  32 points  25 rebounds
Game 3  35 points  25 rebounds 5 assists
Game 4  27 points  38 rebounds
Game 5  30 points  27 rebounds

Series Average  29.2 points  27.6 rebounds


Edited by JTF, October 05, 2013 - 12:41 PM.


#26 JTF

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Posted October 05, 2013 - 12:43 PM

KBALL: Thanks for the compliment. I appreciate it. Prior to the 1972-1973 season, Wilt and several other Laker players were upset at Jack Kent Cooke for playing it cheap in regards to playoff (e.g., 1971-1972 playoffs) bonus money. Wilt, of course, garnered most of the headlines on this issue and his relationship with Cooke was never the same.

 

Fortunately, this discord didn't deter Wilt from playing well in his final season. He led the league in rebounding, he made the 1st Team All-NBA defensive team, and he broke the all-time record for FG % in a season by shooting 72 percent from the floor. He also carried the Lakers into the NBA Finals which was Wilt's 4th appearance in the NBA Finals in 5 years as a Laker. In the last 4 games of the 1973 Western Conference Divisional series, the 36 year old Chamberlain put up this stat line against the Chicago Bulls.   

 

Game 4  11 points  30 rebounds  12 blocks

Game 5  21 points  29 rebounds

Game 6  14 points  20 rebounds

Game 7  21 points  28 rebounds  8 blocks

 

In his final game as an NBA player, Wilt scored 23 points and grabbed 21 rebounds in a 5th game loss to the New York Knicks. The only post-retirement difficulties between Wilt and the Laker organization that I'm aware of involved an SI photo shoot. If memory serves, the Laker organization was not happy with Wilt's refusal to be photographed on the cover of SI with Shaq, Mikan, and Kareem. Hope this helps.  



#27 Majesty

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Posted October 05, 2013 - 05:24 PM

MAJESTY: Minor point, but you stated that my listing of Wilt averaging 39.6 points in his first 7 regular seasons was a mistake, and most likely a "misstype." I double checked that statistic and it is accurate. From 1959-1966, Wilt averaged 39.6 points a game.

You also stated that in that same time period, Wilt's teams only made it to the 2nd round of the playoffs. Actually, Wilt led the San Francisco Warriors to the 1964 NBA Finals. The following are Wilt's playoff stat lines against All-Star center Zelmo Beaty and HOF center Bill Russell.
 


misread that, thought you meant that he averaged 39.6 in a season, not as an average of those first few years. my bad.


 

I've always liked Steve Blake.

 


#28 kball

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Posted October 06, 2013 - 08:23 AM


 

In his final game as an NBA player, Wilt scored 23 points and grabbed 21 rebounds in a 5th game loss to the New York Knicks. The only post-retirement difficulties between Wilt and the Laker organization that I'm aware of involved an SI photo shoot. If memory serves, the Laker organization was not happy with Wilt's refusal to be photographed on the cover of SI with Shaq, Mikan, and Kareem. Hope this helps.  

 

Doesn't explain being left off those tickets though. Perhaps it goes deeper. I remember that SI cover (also magazines in general), maybe someone can find it. They all posed in their laker uni's and mikan had to be 80 something. It was recently part of a tremendous display honoring the career of KAJ at staples center last season to coincide with the his statue.  All the SI covers he was on were blown up poster size


Opposing Coaches Brief Pregame Peptalk/Scouting Report:

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#29 Majesty

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Posted October 06, 2013 - 02:27 PM

Wilt sorta burned all his bridges.  We'll say that much.


 

I've always liked Steve Blake.

 


#30 JTF

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Posted October 07, 2013 - 01:00 PM

If Wilt did burn all of his bridges with the Lakers organization, that's too bad because before his death in 1999, he mended fences with Kansas State University and the Philadelphia 76ers. Wilt's number being retired in the rafters at KU and at the Philly spectrum can be viewed on Youtube. The ceremony in Philly was all glitz whereas the KU ceremony was extremely emotional. 

 

 https://www.youtube....h?v=MrLuE_DRBuY

 

https://www.youtube....h?v=BbxrzeUIzpI


Edited by JTF, October 07, 2013 - 01:02 PM.


#31 kball

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Posted October 07, 2013 - 03:37 PM

If Wilt did burn all of his bridges with the Lakers organization, that's too bad because before his death in 1999, he mended fences with Kansas State University and the Philadelphia 76ers. Wilt's number being retired in the rafters at KU and at the Philly spectrum can be viewed on Youtube. The ceremony in Philly was all glitz whereas the KU ceremony was extremely emotional. 

 

 https://www.youtube....h?v=MrLuE_DRBuY

 

https://www.youtube....h?v=BbxrzeUIzpI

What about the globetrotters? Everything good there? :laughing:


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#32 Majesty

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Posted October 07, 2013 - 05:42 PM

What about the globetrotters? Everything good there? :laughing:


Some of the greatest players to never come to the NBA came from the Globetrotters. 

Marques Haynes to this day is the greatest ball handler I've ever seen, the guy could shake 5 people at once(including the Minneapolis Lakers) and they'd never touch them and he didn't have to carry it like 99.9% of point guard that can 'handle' these days.  He could cross people up with one hand and knew how to keep the ball away from the defender, a lost art by ball handlers who nearly always square out now.

 

 

 

Marques :56 to 1:09

1:23 to 2:10

 

Wilt: 2:54 to 3:00

Haynes also lead his team Langston to DEFEAT the Globetrotters before he joined them.  It was one of the only times the Globetrotters ever lost, and Haynes lead his team Langston to beat them by 4, immediately after he was invited to the team(after finishing his degree) and the rest is history.    And while in college at Langston he lead his team in scoring all 4 years while leading them to a 112-3 record....   

112-3....  which included a 59 game winning streak.

One of the greatest ever Marques was..possibly the best guard to never go into the NBA, if ONLY he'd come to the NBA and been seen on the NBA scale!! Think of the innovation considering the times. That to this day no crossover has ever matched up to his, mainly because he could do it with one hand and at his peak could dribble the ball 6 times a second.  THAT is astounding!!!  He would have been one of the greatest guards the NBA had ever seen.   The thing is the Philly Warriors(who later would go on to get Wilt Chamberlain) did offer Hayes a a 35,000 a year contract to join their team in 53 which would have made him the 2nd HIGHEST paid player in the NBA in his rookie season at the age of 27...  But he turned it down.  

What could have been?  They'd had gotten Haynes and 6 years later would have gotten Wilt.   What could have been...  I will stress to say that if it had happened, Russell wouldn't have 11 rings. 

 

Not to mention he continued at a high level of play till the age of 66 when he finally retired.  He was different...    in an age nowadays where 33 is considered close to "done"  Haynes kept it up till his mid sixties logging in over 12,000 games.   let me put that into perspective.  

A Player with a 17 year career in the NBA, and playing game 7s in every round of the playoffs to the finals each year.  Would log around 1870 games.   Haynes played in 12,000 until the age of 66 still at a high level!! Let that marinate...
 
ANOTHER THING about the guy?  When the globetrotters beat the Lakers... Haynes lead them in the 2nd half.. with a BROKEN BACK!... its true
 

"In the Trotters' locker room, there was jubilation and profound relief. The players hoisted a beaming Abe into the air, and he showed his delight with the win by handing out cash bonuses. George Mikan showed his class by stopping by to congratulate the victors. "One hell of a game guys," he said.

Most of the Trotters were going out to celebrate, but Marques Haynes was in such pain from his two horrendous falls that he went back to the Trotters' rooming house and went to bed. The next morning he could barely move and decided to go to the hospital, where X-rays confirmed that he had fractured the fourth lumbar vertebra. Amazingly, he had played the second half with a broken back. The doctors put him in a full body cast and he walked out of the hospital, but he was through for the season. He went home to Sand Springs, Oklahoma, to recuperate."

 

http://www.mmbolding...obetrotters.htm



THAT IS HEART!!! Against one of the greatest teams of all time!


I wish there was more film of him!!!
 


Edited by Majesty, October 07, 2013 - 06:48 PM.

 

I've always liked Steve Blake.

 





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