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Is LeBron too good?


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#1 Jody Smokes

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Posted July 31, 2013 - 05:10 PM

During an argument about Lebron being a better shooter this statement was made to discredit Lebron and the reason why he gets better shots b/c he doesnt get double teamed

 

"I don't have to show you facts to prove Kobe has been doubled 75% of his career... It's a given... Teams can't double Lebron.... He's too quick, too big, and handles the ball most of the time.. outside of the post, you can't really double him"

 

Can someone help me figure this out...


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#2 Jody Smokes

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Posted July 31, 2013 - 05:11 PM

That's quite possibly the funniest thing I've ever heard of a player not seeing double teams


"Blake and Parker are good at canceling each other out till our bench point guard comes in"  - Majesty aka Bird Ish (12/4/13)


#3 Ven

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Posted July 31, 2013 - 05:32 PM

Which in case results, if you're good you get double teamed.



#4 Jody Smokes

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Posted July 31, 2013 - 05:35 PM

This dude was so out of excuses for his argument he made a post that actually made Lebron look better than he really is. 

Which in case results, if you're good you get double teamed.


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#5 RobBlake

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Posted July 31, 2013 - 05:43 PM

This dude was so out of excuses for his argument he made a post that actually made Lebron look better than he really is. 

well.. there's a reason why people say make lebron shoot rather than drive on you. His jumper has improved 


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#6 David

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Posted July 31, 2013 - 06:02 PM

If the NBA tested for PEDs, and LeBron tested positive, will it be the biggest scandal in the history of the NBA?


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#7 Majesty

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Posted July 31, 2013 - 06:10 PM

You don't double LeBron. 

he's always surrounded by wing players that can stretch the floor from mid or 3. They've done a very good job surrounding him.


The way you beat LeBron is you take away the paint and you force him to shoot jumpers instead.


The problem is, most coaches like to play LeBron by guarding the drive and leaving him open for jumpers.  

He shoots 52% on jumpers and people still guard him as if he shoots 42% in jumpers.


But if you look at how the Heat's team is constructed, they basically can clear the paint when they want LeBron to drive, the way you defend that is you let the power forward and center stand at the perimeter and you keep the paint guarded.

That's why when teams did this the only shot Miami could get was a 3 pointer from Bosh. 

Their entire offense is based around the idea that LeBron will be double teamed thus he has players on both sides of the ball for mid range or corner threes, or he has Dwayne Wade on an iso or he'll finish at the rim if the double never comes.

It's very smart. 

The problem is when the defense decides to stay home on the shooters LeBron has little options aside from forcing a shot.  When they stay home on the shooters only the Power Forward or Center gets the shot.  Thus why Bosh got so many three point opportunities once teams found that out.  They were willing to sacrifice that instead of a LeBron basket at the rim.  This is also why they picked up Battier, because when they switch out the power forward with Battier that corner shot instead of being midrange from Haslem, turns into a 3 pointer for Battier.   Make sense?  Good


If you double LeBron the Heat's offense is built around countering that and making threes off of it.

Best way to guard LeBron is to shut down the paint and surrender the three pointer and staying home on the 1 and 2.

That way LeBron only has 3 options.

He's gonna drive and try to force a shot and hope for a foul

He's gonna drive it and try to pass it to the open corner shot.
He's gonna take a jump shot.

Most teams give LeBron extra space so that he doesn't do 1 or 2 as he'll nearly always do 3 when left wide open.

Problem is he shoots 52% in jump shots and his jumper should be given a little more respect than that.    But teams have made the conscious choice that they'd rather sacrifice LeBron making a jump shot over driving and having all the other options of passing.


Now.... tell me ... if Kobe had those three options.  What coach in the NBA would be completely fine with their guy just letting Kobe shoot the jump shot?  

The answer...is NONE :)




 


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#8 Game

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Posted July 31, 2013 - 06:39 PM

problem is he's so effective at the rim, the 52% jumpshot is still a better option against him than letting him drive


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#9 lakers1o1

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Posted July 31, 2013 - 07:01 PM

If the NBA tested for PEDs, and LeBron tested positive, will it be the biggest scandal in the history of the NBA?

 

I feel like it would be the biggest scandal in the history of sports haha


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#10 Jody Smokes

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Posted July 31, 2013 - 07:11 PM

 While I understand what you are trying to convey it doesnt change the fact that teams STILL double team Lebron on drives.  Rarely are there 2 people standing in front of a player on the wing.  Players get doubled and tripled via close out and defensive help.  This idea that Kobe shoots lower percentages b/c he has 2 men guarding him makes 0 sense.  If this was true then wouldnt it make sense to pass the ball to the doubling defenders man?  You see why when people make these arguments how it only plays into the fact that Kobe doesnt pass?

You don't double LeBron. 

he's always surrounded by wing players that can stretch the floor from mid or 3. They've done a very good job surrounding him.


The way you beat LeBron is you take away the paint and you force him to shoot jumpers instead.


The problem is, most coaches like to play LeBron by guarding the drive and leaving him open for jumpers.  

He shoots 52% on jumpers and people still guard him as if he shoots 42% in jumpers.


But if you look at how the Heat's team is constructed, they basically can clear the paint when they want LeBron to drive, the way you defend that is you let the power forward and center stand at the perimeter and you keep the paint guarded.

That's why when teams did this the only shot Miami could get was a 3 pointer from Bosh. 

Their entire offense is based around the idea that LeBron will be double teamed thus he has players on both sides of the ball for mid range or corner threes, or he has Dwayne Wade on an iso or he'll finish at the rim if the double never comes.

It's very smart. 

The problem is when the defense decides to stay home on the shooters LeBron has little options aside from forcing a shot.  When they stay home on the shooters only the Power Forward or Center gets the shot.  Thus why Bosh got so many three point opportunities once teams found that out.  They were willing to sacrifice that instead of a LeBron basket at the rim.  This is also why they picked up Battier, because when they switch out the power forward with Battier that corner shot instead of being midrange from Haslem, turns into a 3 pointer for Battier.   Make sense?  Good


If you double LeBron the Heat's offense is built around countering that and making threes off of it.

Best way to guard LeBron is to shut down the paint and surrender the three pointer and staying home on the 1 and 2.

That way LeBron only has 3 options.

He's gonna drive and try to force a shot and hope for a foul

He's gonna drive it and try to pass it to the open corner shot.
He's gonna take a jump shot.

Most teams give LeBron extra space so that he doesn't do 1 or 2 as he'll nearly always do 3 when left wide open.

Problem is he shoots 52% in jump shots and his jumper should be given a little more respect than that.    But teams have made the conscious choice that they'd rather sacrifice LeBron making a jump shot over driving and having all the other options of passing.


Now.... tell me ... if Kobe had those three options.  What coach in the NBA would be completely fine with their guy just letting Kobe shoot the jump shot?  

The answer...is NONE :)




 


"Blake and Parker are good at canceling each other out till our bench point guard comes in"  - Majesty aka Bird Ish (12/4/13)


#11 Jody Smokes

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Posted July 31, 2013 - 07:13 PM

Not that I dont believe Kobe doesnt pass b/c he does.  Kobe does not always make the right play but he does pass.  In the end the facts state that Lebron has been the better outside shooter.  Nothing wrong with admitting that.  Only the Kobe stan sect has a problem with this fact and want to use imaginary circumstances to refute it. 


"Blake and Parker are good at canceling each other out till our bench point guard comes in"  - Majesty aka Bird Ish (12/4/13)


#12 BasketballIQ

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Posted July 31, 2013 - 07:40 PM

This is really why I hate numbers.

 

 

leBron has morphed into a pretty good shooter, and Kobe has turned into an errratic one from the outside but guess what

 

 

 

i don't need any stat sheet.

Curry>Kobe>LeBron>Wade>Rondo

 

 

That's how I view shooters



#13 PhillyLaker24

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Posted July 31, 2013 - 08:05 PM

The title really has nothing to do with the question. Just saying.


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#14 Jody Smokes

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Posted July 31, 2013 - 08:23 PM

So how would you judge that Curry is a better shooter if you didnt have the stats to make your case?  Stats show that Nash is probably the best shooter of this era, but people will tell you Ray Allen is the better shooter.  Stats aren't the end all be all but when you make statements like so and so isnt a better shooter than so and so stats enter the conversation.  Now we discussing shot creation on the wing or playmaking ability those are subjective things that stats cannot fully explain.

This is really why I hate numbers.

 

 

leBron has morphed into a pretty good shooter, and Kobe has turned into an errratic one from the outside but guess what

 

 

 

i don't need any stat sheet.

Curry>Kobe>LeBron>Wade>Rondo

 

 

That's how I view shooters


"Blake and Parker are good at canceling each other out till our bench point guard comes in"  - Majesty aka Bird Ish (12/4/13)


#15 Jody Smokes

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Posted July 31, 2013 - 08:24 PM

You'd have to go read the debate we were having.  The question was in jest.  I didnt fully explain thats my fault.

 

The title really has nothing to do with the question. Just saying.


"Blake and Parker are good at canceling each other out till our bench point guard comes in"  - Majesty aka Bird Ish (12/4/13)


#16 PhillyLaker24

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Posted July 31, 2013 - 08:28 PM

You'd have to go read the debate we were having.  The question was in jest.  I didnt fully explain thats my fault.

 

Its cool bro, I just read the topic and when I clicked on it the thread wasnt anything I thought it would be related to at all lol


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#17 Paris

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Posted July 31, 2013 - 08:36 PM

Not that I dont believe Kobe doesnt pass b/c he does.  Kobe does not always make the right play but he does pass.  In the end the facts state that Lebron has been the better outside shooter.  Nothing wrong with admitting that.  Only the Kobe stan sect has a problem with this fact and want to use imaginary circumstances to refute it. 

LOL, no. People don't back 10ft. off of Kobe and give him practice shots like they do Lebron. They do it for a reason. I wish teams would back all the way off Kobe and dare him to shoot 18 fts. He'd average 35 PPG again with relative ease.

 

Bottom line is Lebron is not a better shooter than Kobe.


Edited by Paris, July 31, 2013 - 08:38 PM.


#18 Majesty

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Posted July 31, 2013 - 08:40 PM

 While I understand what you are trying to convey it doesnt change the fact that teams STILL double team Lebron on drives.  Rarely are there 2 people standing in front of a player on the wing.  Players get doubled and tripled via close out and defensive help.  This idea that Kobe shoots lower percentages b/c he has 2 men guarding him makes 0 sense.  If this was true then wouldnt it make sense to pass the ball to the doubling defenders man?  You see why when people make these arguments how it only plays into the fact that Kobe doesnt pass?


yes they do. 

They do it because his only other option besides a forced pass will be a corner three to whatever side he was driving towards.

When Bosh is out there it's sort of exploitable unless Bosh is hitting that shot, and he can but you live with it.

We saw what happened to Indiana when they decided to NOT live with it.  Easy layup for Lebron.   They constructed their offense and players in a very smart way.


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#19 Jody Smokes

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Posted July 31, 2013 - 09:00 PM

Teams dont treat Lebron like Rondo and havent done for some time.  Stop repeating old adages that have been debunked man.  Lebron is an above avg shooter in the NBA.  Unless you have some metrics that say otherwise you are just blowing hot air. 

LOL, no. People don't back 10ft. off of Kobe and give him practice shots like they do Lebron. They do it for a reason. I wish teams would back all the way off Kobe and dare him to shoot 18 fts. He'd average 35 PPG again with relative ease.

 

Bottom line is Lebron is not a better shooter than Kobe.


"Blake and Parker are good at canceling each other out till our bench point guard comes in"  - Majesty aka Bird Ish (12/4/13)


#20 Jody Smokes

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Posted July 31, 2013 - 09:02 PM

It does not make you any less of Lakers or Kobe fan to admit that a 28 year old Lebron can shoot better than a 34 year old Kobe.  Its not the end of the world.


"Blake and Parker are good at canceling each other out till our bench point guard comes in"  - Majesty aka Bird Ish (12/4/13)





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