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All Lakers titles have come when we had the best player in the world


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#1 BasketballIQ

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Posted July 21, 2013 - 08:22 AM

People who criticize Jim Buss , always make this mistake. They forget that once MJ passed Magic, our title days were done. Over.

So after we added Magic to Kareem, our talent was off the charts. Add in Worthy and it was crazy.
But those stars faded and under the late great Dr Buss and Jerry West for over a decade, we were the type of team we are now. Playoffs but not close to a title.

In the late 80-90s, we didn't have Charles Barkley, Hakeem, MJ, Reggie, Patrick, the Admiral, Payton, Stockton, Malone or any of the legends of that era. Not one.

That was after the Magic era into the MJ era.

The great Jerry West led us to no titles or even threat of a title.


Now into the Jim Buss era. The guy drafted Bynum, so in my eyes he deserves credit for the last two titles. Now , Kobe is past his prime, and LeBron is in the middle.

Why can't fans make the parallels. Why is it such a in vogue thing to diss Jim, when these players, including Kobe have FAILED under Phil, Brown and MDA for 3 straight years?

Is it taboo to say Kobe may be destined for 5 rings. Is that horrible?
Can people acknowledge that traditionally the best 2-3 players in the world win titles, not guys who have played 20 seasons worth of minutes.

Add to the fact that last season, the healthiest guy from Game 1 was Nash who broke his leg Game 2.
Kobe had a minor injury. Gasol had no knees. Dwight was stiff and slow. It was just a bad year.

#2 Japago

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Posted July 21, 2013 - 08:36 AM

It's not that the Lakers haven't won, it's that the Lakers haven't really been in a position to compete since 2010-2011.

 

Other teams with older cores have done much better jobs at least putting themselves in the conversation, such as the Celtics and Spurs. They were able to surround their older cores with younger talent with the same limited resources that the Lakers have had at their disposal. Instead, the Lakers have gotten worse at surrounding Kobe with talent each season and was playing entire games before the end of this season when he got hurt.


Edited by Japago, July 21, 2013 - 08:36 AM.

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#3 Thanatos

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Posted July 21, 2013 - 08:44 AM

I don't understand your point.

 

Just because the Lakers haven't won titles in the past without the league's best player doesn't mean it's definitively impossible for them to do so. '04 Pistons and '08 Celtics are two examples of teams that have won it all without the best player in the league ('13 Spurs too if not for Ginobili).

 

I'm just disappointed in the way the FO's failed at giving itself a chance to win.


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#4 David

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Posted July 21, 2013 - 09:15 AM

It's not that the Lakers haven't won, it's that the Lakers haven't really been in a position to compete since 2010-2011.

Other teams with older cores have done much better jobs at least putting themselves in the conversation, such as the Celtics and Spurs. They were able to surround their older cores with younger talent with the same limited resources that the Lakers have had at their disposal. Instead, the Lakers have gotten worse at surrounding Kobe with talent each season and was playing entire games before the end of this season when he got hurt.


We were in salary cap hell. We had very limited options on what we could do. We tried to get better via trade. We almost acquired the best point guard in the league. We acquired the best center, but he never wanted to have been here anyways. We traded picks for Nash.

We have done a great job getting talent with limited resources. The plans just blew up on our faces.

KOBE. #VINO. BRYANT.


#5 Japago

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Posted July 21, 2013 - 09:28 AM

We were in salary cap hell. We had very limited options on what we could do. We tried to get better via trade. We almost acquired the best point guard in the league. We acquired the best center, but he never wanted to have been here anyways. We traded picks for Nash.

We have done a great job getting talent with limited resources. The plans just blew up on our faces.

 

The Celtics/Spurs/Heat did a great job adding talent with the same limited resources the last few seasons.

 

The Lakers have made some good moves, but they haven't done a good job adding younger talent that helps out the older core. They kept Pau around for too long and shouldn't have traded for Nash when it was clear they needed to get younger.


Edited by Japago, July 21, 2013 - 09:28 AM.

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#6 flota

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Posted July 21, 2013 - 09:29 AM

i was thinking along these lines we won five in the 80s, completly dry in the 90s, 00s we won another 5, so according to the stats (lol) this decade we should not win anything...

 

flawed logic, i know, i prefer to think we will defy the past


Edited by flota, July 21, 2013 - 09:30 AM.

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#7 BasketballIQ

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Posted July 21, 2013 - 10:11 AM

The Celtics/Spurs/Heat did a great job adding talent with the same limited resources the last few seasons.

The Lakers have made some good moves, but they haven't done a good job adding younger talent that helps out the older core. They kept Pau around for too long and shouldn't have traded for Nash when it was clear they needed to get younger.


LeBron end up still having to drag that team to a title. And at his age he was more equipped to do it than Kobe. Dwight was supposed to be Top 5 but ended up being Top 30 or something like that. I thought Nash and Pau showed as much worth as Rat Allen and Bosh. But Dwight and Kobe didnt have the impact that LeBron had.

#8 BasketballIQ

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Posted July 21, 2013 - 10:11 AM

i was thinking along these lines we won five in the 80s, completly dry in the 90s, 00s we won another 5, so according to the stats (lol) this decade we should not win anything...

flawed logic, i know, i prefer to think we will defy the past

It's the same thing. That happened to be the MJ era.

#9 BasketballIQ

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Posted July 21, 2013 - 10:15 AM

I don't understand your point.

Just because the Lakers haven't won titles in the past without the league's best player doesn't mean it's definitively impossible for them to do so. '04 Pistons and '08 Celtics are two examples of teams that have won it all without the best player in the league ('13 Spurs too if not for Ginobili).

I'm just disappointed in the way the FO's failed at giving itself a chance to win.


So when the CBA was designed to take away our advantages (money), took away CP3, and when we turned Fish , Odom and Bynum to Nash and Dwight, the front office failed.

We hit bad luck in the sense that the best center in the world did not have a great year, and the other bigs both missed too much time. And our point guards both got hurt for most of the season.

The front office did much better than expected given the way the CBA was aimed our way.

#10 fido

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Posted July 21, 2013 - 10:26 AM

Bynum had virtually nothing to do with the Lakers winning two titles.

#11 Japago

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Posted July 21, 2013 - 10:27 AM

Wade and Bosh were still great during the regular season. Wade was very efficient. Because they were great during the regular season, Lebron had more juice in him for the playoffs. And, Lebron had support in the most important games in the postseason.

 

Their team was also a much better defensive team. They were 7th in the regular season and 4th during the postseason. The Lakers were 19th during the regular season and dead last in the postseason.

 

Again though, it's not about the Lakers not winning championships. It's about the Lakers not even being in the conversation. The Lakers may have made some good moves here or there, but they didn't build the well-rounded rosters older teams that have remained competitive have like the Spurs.


Edited by Japago, July 21, 2013 - 10:28 AM.

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#12 BasketballIQ

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Posted July 21, 2013 - 10:35 AM

Bynum had virtually nothing to do with the Lakers winning two titles.

Inaccurate

Bynum made Kobe feel like we were a contender which was big.

Bynum helped us in the regular seasons of both 2009,2010.

We needed every bit of his rebounding and inside presence against the Celtics.

#13 BasketballIQ

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Posted July 21, 2013 - 10:38 AM

Wade and Bosh were still great during the regular season. Wade was very efficient. Because they were great during the regular season, Lebron had more juice in him for the playoffs. And, Lebron had support in the most important games in the postseason.

Their team was also a much better defensive team. They were 7th in the regular season and 4th during the postseason. The Lakers were 19th during the regular season and dead last in the postseason.

Again though, it's not about the Lakers not winning championships. It's about the Lakers not even being in the conversation. The Lakers may have made some good moves here or there, but they didn't build the well-rounded rosters older teams that have remained competitive have like the Spurs.


What moves would have been available? Pau for whom? Bargnani? Millsap?

He was going to get traded the first year he showed decline , which was CP3.. The next season was THIS. Season where he was hurt at the deadline. untradeable.

#14 Japago

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Posted July 21, 2013 - 10:49 AM

What moves would have been available? Pau for whom? Bargnani? Millsap?

He was going to get traded the first year he showed decline , which was CP3.. The next season was THIS. Season where he was hurt at the deadline. untradeable.

 

Millsap would've been good. Josh Smith too.

 

They had the opportunity to trade him all of 2011-2012 and last offseason. And, Pau wasn't hurt all of this season. He got injured in December and missed a few weeks. He missed 5 games in January, and played until the 2nd week of February when got his major injury. There were a few spots there where he could've been traded. It was said that the Lakers didn't want to make any kind of moves until they got to see how this team played together, which was terrible considering you could tell this team wasn't going to be great even when healthy. Not even during their late end of season run did they look like a team capable of competing.


Edited by Japago, July 21, 2013 - 10:51 AM.

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#15 Ham

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Posted July 21, 2013 - 10:52 AM

lol this is the same for every other team that won a championship except detroit and a few other exceptions.


Edited by Ham, July 21, 2013 - 10:52 AM.

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#16 Tensai

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Posted July 21, 2013 - 11:11 AM

This just confirms we will win this season.



#17 reryo

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Posted July 21, 2013 - 12:08 PM

It can be debated that the Lakers had the world's best player during the 2010 championship run. 



#18 fozi

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Posted July 21, 2013 - 12:17 PM

If you make the right decisions, you can prepare a team that can contend..

 

 

That wasnt the case since 2011..



#19 Jay Cee

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Posted July 21, 2013 - 01:14 PM

It doesn't really bother me that the Lakers haven't won since 2010. That's just sports, you don't win every year. I don't blame Jim or Mitch at all, every team goes through spells like this (yes, even the Lakers) in which you have to struggle for a while until you get back on top. MJs Bulls didn't win every year, neither did Magics Lakers nor Birds Celtics. The Heat the last two seasons have just been better than everyone else, there's no use blaming Jim for that. Unless he was gonna trade for Lebron James, we weren't winning anything anyway.

#20 fido

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Posted July 21, 2013 - 01:14 PM

Pay did the Leon's share of work in the middle both times.

Go back and watch the games again.




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