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Charles Barkley: "The Lakers are gonna stink"


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#81 Calisupra2nr

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Posted July 24, 2013 - 11:05 AM

I don't really think a "defensive anchor" is much more than a buzzword used in NBA 2k games... 

 

Don't tell me Kobe was a defensive anchor in our finals runs from 08-10.. because he wasn't.  He was a good wing defender, but certainly not some "anchor".  When a team has the correct discipline to play together and runs schemes that fit their age/weaknesses, you can have a good defensive team without an anchor - in fact sometimes the anchor - is the team's mindset and schemes.



#82 Tensai

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Posted July 24, 2013 - 11:20 AM

Anyone who watches European competitions would know the term defensive anchor is overrated and in most cases not even applicable. Yet you see those teams play helluva zone defense with blocking the passing lanes and whatnot. It is effective. NBA is lacking in that sense.

#83 Real Deal

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Posted July 24, 2013 - 12:13 PM

DanishLakerFan, on 24 Jul 2013 - 02:51, said:
I agree that we could use a defender or two, but we do have a bit of size so we should be able to crowd the paint and guys like Nick Young and Wesley Johnson should be able to contest 3pt shooters. Also, I don’t think it’s that difficult to add a defender or two – either through free agency or via trades.

Why not look at these guys:
Tyrus Thomas, Ronnie Brewer, K-Mart, Mickael Pietrus, Delonte West, Dahntay Jones – there’s a lot of different defensive skills to be had…

IMO Delonte West is the guy to get. With Delonte you could try move both Meeks and Blake. I also think Ronnie Brewer would be a nice addition, since it’ll give us a real defensive stopper, who may not score much, but doesn’t really make mistakes either. Finally, a guy like Tyrus Thomas would be a nice addition. He’ll give the frontcourt the one thing they need: athleticism and shotblocking.

Regarding the season; we can only be positively surprised. There is no pressure to do anything – and if we miss the playoffs, I don’t think the fan base will be that upset. Looking at the roster I think and hope everyting will be fine. Everybody are trying to showcase their skills, which can be bad (if everybody are looking to fill the statsheet) or good if everyone buys into the system and play as hard as they can.

Size doesn't make up for a lack of defense. Maybe if you're a seven-foot, 356-pound slab of concrete, like Shaq was...but we are going to get obliterated out of the P&R (which has killed us in the playoffs over time) and slashing guards that are seeking to abuse Nash.

If size was a factor, Utah would have been a top 10 defensive team last year (Jefferson, Millsap, Favors, Kanter)...but they were 21st because none of their players could play defense, aside from Favors (who didn't get the minutes he deserved). Then comes Miami, a top 10 defensive team who is playing Chris Bosh at center, LeBron at PF.

And there are defensive players out there, but they will get more money elsewhere and know they will have to play behind Kobe/Young/Johnson (Dahntay Jones), they are too offensively-inept to play significant minutes (Ronnie Brewer, Tyrus Thomas), or they are too injury-prone for the Lakers to even consider (Mickael Pietrus). Additionally, the Lakers are looking to get under the tax threshold, so before they sign anyone else, they will likely look to get rid of Blake and Duhon.

Delonte West would work for me, but he would've already been in purple and gold by now. We had a chance at him last season, when we needed the defense at the one and two...but we passed on him. Same with Keyon Martin, who sat and waited for us.

Again, it's probably exciting in a sense that we have no idea how we're going to run our offense, and what players will stand out at this point...but expectations can't be too high, because none of these guys we're bringing in have proven to be legitimate starters in this league (Kaman a while back, but not today). Young has always had the potential, but who will tap into it? We're basically hoping for Kobe to tutor him enough to bring the best out of his game...but we're crossing our fingers for Wes Johnson as well, and hoping that Farmar isn't any slower, laterally, than he was years ago (he is).

So, defensively, we have no chance. Offensively, there's no evidence that we'll have a 25+ PPG scorer, as much as it pains me to say that...and if we don't, we're dead in the water.

#84 Real Deal

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Posted July 24, 2013 - 12:18 PM

Once again, if you don't have an anchor, you need at least two elite defenders to make up for it, if not more. You can't have players getting to the rim with no contest.

If "defensive anchor" is an overrated term, so is "primary scorer." An anchor protects the rim. A primary scorer is your go-to scorer.

Otherwise, prove me wrong. Start listing the Finals teams that don't have that defensive anchor, or those two defenders that prevent guards from getting to the rack. You have the floor.

Regarding 2008-10, Kobe was roaming. He was no anchor. It doesn't matter how some define the term...defensive anchors protect the rim. They anchor the defense. They are who you funnel your players towards, if you're a weak defensive player (ex. Nash). Larry Brown, Gregg Popovich, and some of the greatest defensive coaches of all time have used the term quite often, so you don't have to question me...ask them about it. Ask them what it means to have a Tim Duncan, Ben Wallace or Dikembe Mutombo, and how it feels when those guys lead your team, defensively, to the NBA Finals.

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Posted July 24, 2013 - 12:48 PM

Delonte West would work for me, but he would've already been in purple and gold by now. We had a chance at him last season, when we needed the defense at the one and two...but we passed on him. Same with Keyon Martin, who sat and waited for us.

Could've had and still could have both those players or at least one if we really wanted to also, but it seems we don't prioritize defense here much at all. From the coach to the front office.


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#86 Lakerace24

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Posted July 24, 2013 - 12:56 PM

Size doesn't make up for a lack of defense. Maybe if you're a seven-foot, 356-pound slab of concrete, like Shaq was...but we are going to get obliterated out of the P&R (which has killed us in the playoffs over time) and slashing guards that are seeking to abuse Nash.

If size was a factor, Utah would have been a top 10 defensive team last year (Jefferson, Millsap, Favors, Kanter)...but they were 21st because none of their players could play defense, aside from Favors (who didn't get the minutes he deserved). Then comes Miami, a top 10 defensive team who is playing Chris Bosh at center, LeBron at PF.

And there are defensive players out there, but they will get more money elsewhere and know they will have to play behind Kobe/Young/Johnson (Dahntay Jones), they are too offensively-inept to play significant minutes (Ronnie Brewer, Tyrus Thomas), or they are too injury-prone for the Lakers to even consider (Mickael Pietrus). Additionally, the Lakers are looking to get under the tax threshold, so before they sign anyone else, they will likely look to get rid of Blake and Duhon.

Delonte West would work for me, but he would've already been in purple and gold by now. We had a chance at him last season, when we needed the defense at the one and two...but we passed on him. Same with Keyon Martin, who sat and waited for us.

Again, it's probably exciting in a sense that we have no idea how we're going to run our offense, and what players will stand out at this point...but expectations can't be too high, because none of these guys we're bringing in have proven to be legitimate starters in this league (Kaman a while back, but not today). Young has always had the potential, but who will tap into it? We're basically hoping for Kobe to tutor him enough to bring the best out of his game...but we're crossing our fingers for Wes Johnson as well, and hoping that Farmar isn't any slower, laterally, than he was years ago (he is).

So, defensively, we have no chance. Offensively, there's no evidence that we'll have a 25+ PPG scorer, as much as it pains me to say that...and if we don't, we're dead in the water.

If I remember correctly, The Lakers waived Duhon because his contract was only partially guaranteed. Part of his contract should still be on the books, and thus, is immoveable.



#87 Calisupra2nr

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Posted July 24, 2013 - 12:57 PM

Primary scorer, defensive anchor, this set of terminology (more like buzz words) is not black and white and easy to say "well you have to have a defensive anchor and a primary scorer to win a championship, unless you have at least 2 elite defenders."

 

That is all too arbitrary for my tastes.  Coaching basketball, and playing basketball is about sifting thru the gray areas and reading between the lines.  It is why Phil Jackson is so good.  We did not have a defensive anchor during our championship runs in 2008-2010.  Kobe was of course listed on the 1st team all NBA D team, but he was not an anchor, like you said he would roam and check passing lanes.  Spike Lee did a great runthrough with Kobe when they played the Spurs where Kobe talks the audience through roaming around defensively.  That is just one way to be effective when you dont have that anchor you are referring to RD.  Pau Gasol was not an anchor, and yet he is who we utilized at the C position to win those rings. 

Point is, you can go places without having "defensive anchors protect the rim. They anchor the defense. They are who you funnel your players towards, if you're a weak defensive player (ex. Nash). "



#88 Calisupra2nr

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Posted July 24, 2013 - 01:02 PM

BTW, let me clarify.... I do not disagree with the idea of having to have elite defenders to win a championship... 99% of NBA teams that have won championships have elite defenders.  I am only saying the Lakers could still make a push this year for a decent playoff run (eg, Conference semis) without needing an anchor (eg, Dwight).



#89 MAMBA24ILL

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Posted July 24, 2013 - 01:48 PM

We need a defensive anchor & a half with teams likely to attach Nash. I'd look at Blake to defend the rim before I'd look Pau's way. 


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#90 Majesty

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Posted July 24, 2013 - 02:29 PM

Otherwise, prove me wrong. Start listing the Finals teams that don't have that defensive anchor, or those two defenders that prevent guards from getting to the rack. You have the floor.
 


Only one I remember is the 2005-2006 Heat team that if memory serves was ranked 17th in the league defensively.

Though I don't know if you'd count that necessarily depending.

Don't disagree that we'd need a defensive anchor, but as it seems, Mitch got Wes for that reason so obviously he must see something.  IF his ceiling is something like Ariza's then he'll help a great deal. 


Our wild cards in my opinion are whether or not our wings play defense, by that I mean if Nick Young stays true to his word to try on defense.


A lot of my hopes lay on the signing of Rambis, the moment he's signed I'll feel a lot better because as constructed with a coach like Rambis who can really help on the team defense concept, it can help us a lot in terms of shrinking the floor.

Also, if Gasol is the one who is rotating at the rim instead of the guy that has to rotate for the 5 I think it will be much better prospects.

When we consider that before Gasol was out at the wing and had to chase down people, I think if Jordan Hill is the guy that has to rotate after the 5 does that we're in better shape than depending on Gasol to rotate when Howard rotated.


Edited by Majesty, July 24, 2013 - 02:31 PM.

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#91 LakeShow805

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Posted July 24, 2013 - 03:27 PM

BTW, let me clarify.... I do not disagree with the idea of having to have elite defenders to win a championship... 99% of NBA teams that have won championships have elite defenders.  I am only saying the Lakers could still make a push this year for a decent playoff run (eg, Conference semis) without needing an anchor (eg, Dwight).

lol.......they aren't


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#92 Real Deal

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Posted July 24, 2013 - 03:35 PM

Primary scorer, defensive anchor, this set of terminology (more like buzz words) is not black and white and easy to say "well you have to have a defensive anchor and a primary scorer to win a championship, unless you have at least 2 elite defenders."
 
That is all too arbitrary for my tastes.  Coaching basketball, and playing basketball is about sifting thru the gray areas and reading between the lines.  It is why Phil Jackson is so good.  We did not have a defensive anchor during our championship runs in 2008-2010.  Kobe was of course listed on the 1st team all NBA D team, but he was not an anchor, like you said he would roam and check passing lanes.  Spike Lee did a great runthrough with Kobe when they played the Spurs where Kobe talks the audience through roaming around defensively.  That is just one way to be effective when you dont have that anchor you are referring to RD.  Pau Gasol was not an anchor, and yet he is who we utilized at the C position to win those rings. 

Point is, you can go places without having "defensive anchors protect the rim. They anchor the defense. They are who you funnel your players towards, if you're a weak defensive player (ex. Nash). "[/size]

...and in those championship seasons, we had Kobe and either Ariza or Ron, and Bynum was at least trying to contest shots at the rim (more than Gasol does today). That was my point.

And Fisher >>>>>>>>>>>> Nash, defensively...even though he was a liability on that end of the floor. Nash is simply awful. Fish wouldn't allow guys to take him into the post, but he'd get rocked against slashing PG's. Nash gets destroyed by everyone, in any way, shape or form.

What defensive players are going to make up for a 60-year old Nash (instead of Fisher), 2014 Kobe (instead of 2010 Kobe), Wes Johnson (instead of Ron Artest), 2014 Gasol (instead of 2010 Gasol), and Chris Kaman (instead of Andrew Bynum)? It doesn't even compare.

#93 Real Deal

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Posted July 24, 2013 - 03:37 PM

If we're going to get out of the first round, what top four team are we beating in the West?

Spurs
Thunder
Clippers
Warriors

?

#94 TKainZero

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Posted July 24, 2013 - 03:40 PM

clippers

 

we still have pride!!!!

If we're going to get out of the first round, what top four team are we beating in the West?

Spurs
Thunder
Clippers
Warriors

?

 

also, I am expecting big things from nick young!

I think dude is going to win us games, that we had no chance in...


Lakers haven't had a Lethal Scorer off the bench since Kobe in his 2nd year...

Maybe Farmar/Sasha but they weren't scorers...

Devin George... nah...

 

 

Nick Young/Kobe/ Nash... that's is as good as it gets offensively...

Defense is going to be a problem all year long...

 

Lakers need to hope CDR developes into a defensive player, and Nick Young matures his game BIG TIME



#95 Calisupra2nr

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Posted July 24, 2013 - 08:21 PM

We aren't getting past the first round.  There are many factors contributing to that, defense is one, but having good defense is not a binary result of a defensive anchor.



#96 Real Deal

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Posted July 25, 2013 - 12:00 AM

We aren't getting past the first round.

You stated that the conference semis were possible, so I'm just asking who we're going to beat. 

There are many factors contributing to that, defense is one, but having good defense is not a binary result of a defensive anchor.

...again, never said it was, and that's why I gave the Miami Heat as an example. They have LeBron, Wade, Battier, Chalmers, etc. It gets the job done. It makes up for a Dwight.

But, again, who are our defensive players? You can't stack a team of offensive-minded players and say that a defensive system can turn them into good defenders. That's not how it works. It has never, ever happened in NBA history...give me one example of it.

Maybe you can do that at a high school level, because you can simply crowd scorers and ruin a team's chances of putting the ball in the rim...but crowding players at a pro level doesn't work. You can't stick a five of Gasol, Jamison, Ebanks, Meeks and Nash out on the floor and expect them to hold a Golden State Warriors squad to anything under 30 in a 12-minute period, doesn't matter your defensive system or coach.

So, anchor or not...what defensive players will make up for Dwight Howard, Ron Artest, Earl Clark, and a 2013 Kobe Bryant?

#97 Jody Smokes

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Posted July 25, 2013 - 06:31 AM

Who cares about that Real Deal.  That forum blue and gold jersey is going to turn Wes Johnson into Tayshaun Prince in his prime and Nick Young into a lockdown defender because Kobe will not allow this team to tank. 


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#98 LakersGAFan

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Posted July 25, 2013 - 07:39 AM

Someone tell Chuck that we stunk last year. Barkley's Psychic ability is not impressive.


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#99 LakeShow805

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Posted July 25, 2013 - 08:43 AM

We aren't getting past the first round.  There are many factors contributing to that, defense is one, but having good defense is not a binary result of a defensive anchor.

....didn't you just say we could make it to the semis lol


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Posted July 25, 2013 - 01:52 PM

^

I am only saying the Lakers could still make a push this year for a decent playoff run (eg, Conference semis) .


yo.





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