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Kobe meets with Melo for possible 2014 destination


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#241 Lakerace24

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Posted July 24, 2013 - 03:44 PM

Let me make sure I get this straight before I spit water at my computer screen... Some of you actually believe acquiring Love in free agency is not a Home Run?



#242 Majesty

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Posted July 24, 2013 - 03:45 PM

Where are the full facts? I want the span of games and the matchups as well.  Then what about the defense?  Melo cant even defend the 3's in the league he now is going to body up 4s and play great D when teams Pick and Roll him to death?  Get real man.  Melo is a great offensive tool.  I'd love to have him ONLY if the right pieces were in place and the right price.  Giving Melo 96M over 4 years at what will be age 30 will be a stupid idea if he is going to be the best player on the team.


he's only slightly worse defensively.

But you wanted facts.  Alright
 

POS.

SF MIN: 8%   NET PTS: +29    OFF: 99.1    DEF: 95.2  NET48: 3.9   W: 19  L: 15 

PF MIN: 48% NET PTS: +238   OFF: 101.7  DEF:95.8   NET48: 5.9   W: 40  L: 22 

 



Enough yet?

Knicks are 19-15 when he played small Forward

and were 40-22 when he played power forward

Across the board, except for defense by 0.6 points, the Knicks were better. 40 of the team’s 54 wins were attributed to Anthony at power forward and just 19 with him at the 3 sometimes he played both so that's factored in.
 

 

Also when Anthony is at the 4, Iman Shumpert their best perimeter defender gets to play the 3 instead, and the only reason the Knicks defensive numbers were worse with Melo at the 4 wasn't because of Melo individually but more to do with Shumpert not being healthy till around January.  And even then it was only a .6 point difference... oooh scary...

How about this?  With Amar'e out, and Carmelo playing the 4 the Knicks went 20-7 to start the season. 

When Stoudamire returned on New Years day with Carmelo who then had to play the 3 mostly because Woodson is an idiot the Knicks went 16-13 before Amar'e went down with injury again.

Carmelo also hurt himself during this time while carrying the team during the 1-4 stretch where Woodson STILL played him.

When Carmelo was back healthy and Stoudamire was out and Carmelo got to play the 4 again guess what happened?  The Knicks went 16-2 including a 13 game winning streak.  

 



Are you done yet?

Knicks are a better team when Carmelo plays the 4 over the 3.  What the heck else more do you want?


Edited by Majesty, July 24, 2013 - 03:52 PM.

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#243 Jody Smokes

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Posted July 24, 2013 - 04:01 PM


he's only slightly worse defensively.

But you wanted facts.  Alright
 

POS.

SF MIN: 8%   NET PTS: +29    OFF: 99.1    DEF: 95.2  NET48: 3.9   W: 19  L: 15 

PF MIN: 48% NET PTS: +238   OFF: 101.7  DEF:95.8   NET48: 5.9   W: 40  L: 22 

 



Enough yet?

Knicks are 19-15 when he played small Forward

and were 40-22 when he played power forward

Across the board, except for defense by 0.6 points, the Knicks were better. 40 of the team’s 54 wins were attributed to Anthony at power forward and just 19 with him at the 3 sometimes he played both so that's factored in.
 

 

Also when Anthony is at the 4, Iman Shumpert their best perimeter defender gets to play the 3 instead, and the only reason the Knicks defensive numbers were worse with Melo at the 4 wasn't because of Melo individually but more to do with Shumpert not being healthy till around January.  And even then it was only a .6 point difference... oooh scary...

How about this?  With Amar'e out, and Carmelo playing the 4 the Knicks went 20-7 to start the season. 

When Stoudamire returned on New Years day with Carmelo who then had to play the 3 mostly because Woodson is an idiot the Knicks went 16-13 before Amar'e went down with injury again.

Carmelo also hurt himself during this time while carrying the team during the 1-4 stretch where Woodson STILL played him.

When Carmelo was back healthy and Stoudamire was out and Carmelo got to play the 4 again guess what happened?  The Knicks went 16-2 including a 13 game winning streak.  

 



Are you done yet?

Knicks are a better team when Carmelo plays the 4 over the 3.  What the heck else more do you want?

 

Yet you still are trying to pigeon hole that as all of Melo's doing.  Do you realize that playing him at the 4 and having a 2 great and 1 capable defender in Shump, Brewer and JR allowed them to take this risk defensively? Chandler being one of the better defenders and offensive rebounders in the league had no play in this?

 

The main issue you keep overlooking is that the Lakers and the Knicks rosters are totally different.  Conceptually a 2014 Roster of Pau, Melo, ? , Kobe and ? is going to be a defensive trainwreck.  Chandler, Melo, Shump, JR and Felton is a better line up for Melo at the 4.  That team still would have gotten worked by the better defensive teams in the playoffs as well....carry on


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#244 Jody Smokes

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Posted July 24, 2013 - 04:02 PM

Lets also not overlook that Chandler is a the epitome of a defensive anchor that is really really low maintenance.  A player like Melo at the 4 next to him isnt a bad concept.  Melo at the 4 next to Pau is very stupid move.


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#245 Majesty

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Posted July 24, 2013 - 04:25 PM

Lets also not overlook that Chandler is a the epitome of a defensive anchor that is really really low maintenance.  A player like Melo at the 4 next to him isnt a bad concept.  Melo at the 4 next to Pau is very stupid move.



Thing is no one knows what our roster would be in the 2014-2015 season other than the 3 core people they want on this team.


The three core people people talk, since we're talking Carmelo at the 4 and LeBron at the 3

The core 3 that would be signed for that year let's assume the position that we signed both since we started this conversation with me saying LeBron would play the 3 and Carmelo would play the 4.

Nash
Kobe
LeBron
Carmelo

That's our lineup from 1-4 and no one else would be signed.  

If Nick Young and Wesley Johnson returned it would be to our bench and we re-sign Farmar as Blake's contract is up and we're high on Jordan Hill and actually would have the money to bring him back so if we bring him back

Our bench would be

Farmar
Young
Johnson
Hill


What we'd be missing is a backup 5 and a starting 5

What are the centers available for the 2014-2015 season



Aside from Gasol


There's

Anderson Varejao

Udonis Haslem
Andrew Bogut

Boris Diaw

Nikola Vucevic

Marcin Gortat
Chris Andersen


So nothing special really.

So I would guess that if we were to get a center it would probably either be re-signing Gasol or bringing in someone from the draft or making a trade would net us a center.

That's about it as far as that goes.

However with those 8 spots taken up, it wouldn't shock me if that team did well, I'm pretty sure given that lineup and the bench they could live with Gasol being the center and Carmelo being the 4. 



Now if we JUST signed Carmelo then we'd need a 3 as well.

Who are the 2014 free agent 3s?

Michael Kidd-Gilchrist

Luol Deng

Jimmy Butler

Rudy Gay

Quincy Pondexter

Danny Granger

Andrei Kirilenko

Trevor Ariza



Little bit broader and there's a few defenders there.


So again we'll have to see how the season goes and what teams make what moves.


But if we're talking about bringing in Carmelo and LeBron it's not much of a worry, defensively we'd be fine enough.

But if we're talking about just bringing in Carmelo to play the 4 then we'd need to look at what other 3s are available.

But this discussion wasn't about any of that.

It was about Carmelo being more efficient at the 4 than the 3, and I've proven that.  So there isn't much else to discuss as far as THAT discussion/disagreement goes :)
 


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#246 Jody Smokes

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Posted July 24, 2013 - 04:33 PM

You still ignore the other things that factor into it.  Nothing about the Lakers roster can speak to him being that good at the 4 here, especially considering the roster.  There are probably more details we could comb through on that topic but bottom line is if the Lakers set their foundation on a 24M a year avg Melo at 30 years old they are going to cripple any real rebuild they can make. 

 

Melo isnt going to magically improve his game in a Lakers jersey


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#247 lakerfan0307

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Posted July 24, 2013 - 04:34 PM

Let me make sure I get this straight before I spit water at my computer screen... Some of you actually believe acquiring Love in free agency is not a Home Run?

I like Kevin Love a lot, don't get me wrong. But Kevin Love is not a centerpiece player. He is a great player though.



#248 Yellow_Evan

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Posted July 24, 2013 - 04:43 PM



Thing is no one knows what our roster would be in the 2014-2015 season other than the 3 core people they want on this team.


The three core people people talk, since we're talking Carmelo at the 4 and LeBron at the 3

The core 3 that would be signed for that year let's assume the position that we signed both since we started this conversation with me saying LeBron would play the 3 and Carmelo would play the 4.

Nash
Kobe
LeBron
Carmelo

That's our lineup from 1-4 and no one else would be signed.  

If Nick Young and Wesley Johnson returned it would be to our bench and we re-sign Farmar as Blake's contract is up and we're high on Jordan Hill and actually would have the money to bring him back so if we bring him back

Our bench would be

Farmar
Young
Johnson
Hill


What we'd be missing is a backup 5 and a starting 5

What are the centers available for the 2014-2015 season



Aside from Gasol


There's

Anderson Varejao

Udonis Haslem
Andrew Bogut

Boris Diaw

Nikola Vucevic

Marcin Gortat
Chris Andersen


So nothing special really.

So I would guess that if we were to get a center it would probably either be re-signing Gasol or bringing in someone from the draft or making a trade would net us a center.

That's about it as far as that goes.

However with those 8 spots taken up, it wouldn't shock me if that team did well, I'm pretty sure given that lineup and the bench they could live with Gasol being the center and Carmelo being the 4. 



Now if we JUST signed Carmelo then we'd need a 3 as well.

Who are the 2014 free agent 3s?

Michael Kidd-Gilchrist

Luol Deng

Jimmy Butler

Rudy Gay

Quincy Pondexter

Danny Granger

Andrei Kirilenko

Trevor Ariza



Little bit broader and there's a few defenders there.


So again we'll have to see how the season goes and what teams make what moves.


But if we're talking about bringing in Carmelo and LeBron it's not much of a worry, defensively we'd be fine enough.

But if we're talking about just bringing in Carmelo to play the 4 then we'd need to look at what other 3s are available.

But this discussion wasn't about any of that.

It was about Carmelo being more efficient at the 4 than the 3, and I've proven that.  So there isn't much else to discuss as far as THAT discussion/disagreement goes :)
 

 

I'd hope for Granger for MLE if we get Melo.



#249 Jody Smokes

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Posted July 24, 2013 - 04:43 PM

I like Kevin Love a lot, don't get me wrong. But Kevin Love is not a centerpiece player. He is a great player though.

 

I like the concept of Love, Rondo and player like Gay as a trio in 2015.  Can't say that its truly a championship team but much better foundation to work off of than Melo.


"Blake and Parker are good at canceling each other out till our bench point guard comes in"  - Majesty aka Bird Ish (12/4/13)


#250 Majesty

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Posted July 24, 2013 - 04:43 PM

You still ignore the other things that factor into it.  Nothing about the Lakers roster can speak to him being that good at the 4 here, especially considering the roster.  There are probably more details we could comb through on that topic but bottom line is if the Lakers set their foundation on a 24M a year avg Melo at 30 years old they are going to cripple any real rebuild they can make. 

 

Melo isnt going to magically improve his game in a Lakers jersey



you have no idea the roster they are putting together in 2014 that's the point.  That's why I gave what the realistic assumption of the roster would be that they are intending.

Melo is a better 4 than a 3 that is something that's indisputable as he's proven it whenever he played the 4.

That is what this discussion started at, it was prove Carmelo is a better 4 than a 3.  Now you're trying to turn it into a "but does Carmelo fit as a 4 with this roster"

That wasn't where the discussion started, it's where the discussion is going because the previous disagreement was proven.


We have no idea what roster they are putting together, but no I wouldn't mind Carmelo as an off-ball scorer to Kobe Bryant.  He can play stretch or in the post from the 4 and when Kobe draws double teams it leads to open shots for Carmelo.


Defensively I'd like to actually see the team as built.

Cause you can't make an assumption when there'd only be 3 players on the roster if they signed Carmelo

Nash, Kobe and Carmelo would be the only 3 if that was to happen.

If Carmelo is playing the 4 we only would know what 3 positions there would be but nothing else would be known

So we can't make the assumption that somehow we'd defensively suck with Carmelo at the 4 without knowing what the rest of the roster will be.

What we can assume is how they would run offensively and it would run with Carmelo in an off-ball role to Kobe Bryant with occasional isolation duties. 

And that would work very well imo.     That's all we know about and could judge on because we don't know whom else would be signed on that front.  So you can't make the assumption on how we'd be defensively because we have no idea who the other signings could be.


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#251 8RingKobe

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Posted July 24, 2013 - 04:55 PM

I'd prefer Love/Wall(or Rondo) in 15 and try to get Cousins in 2014.

If Ariza took a big paycut I'd love him back here to.

#252 Jody Smokes

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Posted July 24, 2013 - 04:56 PM

You cant make a true assumption that Melo is better at the 4 everywhere tho.  Would Melo have made the Nuggets in 2009 or 10 better as constructed at the 4?  Melo at the 4 based on that roster is a nice reward b/c they had particular pieces in place that allowed it.  Same thing goes for Lebron playing the 4 in Miami with the team as constructed.  You just can't assume because one team had success with him at the 4 another will either. 

 

I gave you all the factors as to why.  You keep saying we dont know how the team will be constructed but we do know the realistic possibilites of who they can sign via free agency.  Unless you put a defensive powerhouse at the 5 and other wing defenders with Melo at the 4 the team will have some serious defensive issues. 

 

Now if you want to throw the Lebron factor in, then sure hell yea I'll take a team based on Lebron and Melo anyday...well because its Lebron.  Even then I think if we could land Lebron that addl max contract availability could be better utilized than a player like Melo. 


Edited by Jody Smokes, July 24, 2013 - 04:57 PM.

"Blake and Parker are good at canceling each other out till our bench point guard comes in"  - Majesty aka Bird Ish (12/4/13)


#253 Wilfred

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Posted July 24, 2013 - 05:21 PM

Melo and Kobe in one team only works for Team USA where they have other elite players .. and they play with hugely inferior opposition.

 

Chances of getting Lebron are very low.

 

So unless Lakers fans want a "how quickly you can jack up 30 shots" contest - please keep Melo out of LA.

 

If not might as well get J.R also.

That would be one fine lineup Kobe/Nick Young/JR/Melo. With MDA as the coach they will fit right in



#254 LakeShow805

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Posted July 24, 2013 - 05:53 PM

lol Melo and LeBron are not both coming here.

 

 

And if only Melo comes.......we still most likely won't be good enough to win the whole thing.



#255 KobeWillReturnTriumphant

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Posted July 24, 2013 - 05:59 PM

^. Agree. Don't see lebron or melo coming. Don't want melo by himself. Kinda sad the lakers have been relegated to waiting for another year and hoping things work out.

#256 Chad

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Posted July 24, 2013 - 07:05 PM

Wall is about to be locked up for 5 years. 


Edited by Chad, July 24, 2013 - 07:06 PM.

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#257 LakersAllDay77

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Posted July 24, 2013 - 07:07 PM

If you guys think Melo is the savior you are all sadly mistaken. The guy is not a winner, he almost never makes it out of the first round and is a proven chucker and is one of the streakiest players I have ever seen. He can definitely super hot and noone can stop him, but he has some long droughts such is this past playoffs, although could possibly due to his shoulder getting hurt. I really don't know how we can turn it around and truly compete next year, sad to see Kobe go down like this....

#258 West Coast

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Posted July 24, 2013 - 07:31 PM

If you guys think Melo is the savior you are all sadly mistaken. The guy is not a winner, he almost never makes it out of the first round and is a proven chucker and is one of the streakiest players I have ever seen. He can definitely super hot and noone can stop him, but he has some long droughts such is this past playoffs, although could possibly due to his shoulder getting hurt. I really don't know how we can turn it around and truly compete next year, sad to see Kobe go down like this....

 

No one has said he is a savior. 



#259 Ham

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Posted July 24, 2013 - 07:45 PM

lol melo and kobe makes a great offensive team add another piece and a couple of roleplayers. keep nick young. get some athleticism and some defensive talent. get gasol on the min or MLE. we're looking at a championship team.... 

 

oh and a good coach.

 

and then in 2015 you should have enough cap space for another key piece. (if kobe takes a one year contract)


Edited by Ham, July 24, 2013 - 07:47 PM.

Mike D'Antoni is GARBAGE.


#260 Jody Smokes

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Posted July 24, 2013 - 08:07 PM

lol melo and kobe makes a great offensive team add another piece and a couple of roleplayers. keep nick young. get some athleticism and some defensive talent. get gasol on the min or MLE. we're looking at a championship team.... 

 

oh and a good coach.

 

and then in 2015 you should have enough cap space for another key piece. (if kobe takes a one year contract)

Kobe will be 36 then man.  Get real.  You guys really need to be thinking past the Kobe stage.  Sad to say but he shouldnt even be in the discussion past 2014


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