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Clippers, Bucks Suns complete 3 team trade


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#61 Niss

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Posted July 03, 2013 - 04:48 PM

Are the Suns going to trade Dragic then? If so, where? Mavs?

 

They will probably move him to SG and play two PG's in the backcourt.



#62 fido

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Posted July 04, 2013 - 10:00 AM

It hasn't relieved anything in the inside for an already seriously post up deficient team. It's just made the Clippers easier to defend.

The object is to make team have to double team multiple players. As of right now, you can man up on every player the Clippers have (Paul being the exception, though you can't necessarily stop him anyway).

Shooters around no inside game does nothing. Poor trade for the Clippers.

(And again that Redick contract is toxic.)

#63 Majesty

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Posted July 04, 2013 - 12:31 PM

Yes, as long as they don't do something about that Deandre Jordan is your starting center and Blake Griffin has no post game problems, getting all those shooters isn't gonna help their cause, if anything this trade made them worse losing bledsoe for redick. 

Dudley for Butler is fine.


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#64 PhillyLaker24

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Posted July 04, 2013 - 03:11 PM

Yes, as long as they don't do something about that Deandre Jordan is your starting center and Blake Griffin has no post game problems, getting all those shooters isn't gonna help their cause, if anything this trade made them worse losing bledsoe for redick. 

Dudley for Butler is fine

 

How is losing your back up pg (who is really overrated, solid player but no all star as people portray him) and gaining a starting sg who isnt named willie green a down grade?

 

The clippers had no 2 play at all last year other than the 6th man with crawford, but they had willie green starting for basically the whole season. No way this trade made the clips worst. They might of not got significantly better, but they did improve.

 

Saying you need a post presence that will get doubled to make shooters relevant is just plain wrong. Didnt the NBA champs do that without a post presence? Only player on their team that gets doubled is lebron when he drives, and he kicks out to an open shooter all day. Other maybe than wade who might pull a defender over when he drives everyone on that team gets matched up 1v1 and their shooters still get good looks. Paul will be able to run the pick and roll and create good looking shots for perimeter players, no doubt. You dont need to run the triangle with an inside outside game to get shooters good looks, while that is probably the most efficient way to do it, there are other ways to run an offense and still get your shooters good looks.


Edited by PhillyLaker24, July 04, 2013 - 03:15 PM.

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#65 Majesty

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Posted July 04, 2013 - 03:53 PM

How is losing your back up pg (who is really overrated, solid player but no all star as people portray him) and gaining a starting sg who isnt named willie green a down grade?

 

The clippers had no 2 play at all last year other than the 6th man with crawford, but they had willie green starting for basically the whole season. No way this trade made the clips worst. They might of not got significantly better, but they did improve.

 

Saying you need a post presence that will get doubled to make shooters relevant is just plain wrong. Didnt the NBA champs do that without a post presence? Only player on their team that gets doubled is lebron when he drives, and he kicks out to an open shooter all day. Other maybe than wade who might pull a defender over when he drives everyone on that team gets matched up 1v1 and their shooters still get good looks. Paul will be able to run the pick and roll and create good looking shots for perimeter players, no doubt. You dont need to run the triangle with an inside outside game to get shooters good looks, while that is probably the most efficient way to do it, there are other ways to run an offense and still get your shooters good looks.



Bosh can hit threes , mid range jumpers, has a post game and can hit free throws. 

he can stretch the floor to be viable enough to be a kicked to player when LeBron drives to the basket.    Haslem as well is great from mid range.

The 4 things Bosh can do, and the great mid range shooting Haslem can do, are things Blake and Deandre Jordan can't do and don't have. 

So you can't compare it to what the Heat were able to do


Edited by Majesty, July 04, 2013 - 03:55 PM.

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#66 PhillyLaker24

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Posted July 04, 2013 - 03:58 PM



Bosh can hit threes , mid range jumpers, has a post game and can hit free throws.

4 things Blake and Deandre Jordan can't do and don't have.

 

What does that have to do with doubling teaming down low? If anything teams love that bosh stays out of the paint, frees up a man and allows for rotations to be quicker around the perimeter, so if anything that would play against them. However, when you have a player driving and creating off the dribble it breaks down defenses opening up shooters. This is what chris paul will do and it opens things for the shooters.


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#67 Majesty

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Posted July 04, 2013 - 04:12 PM

What does that have to do with doubling teaming down low? If anything teams love that bosh stays out of the paint, frees up a man and allows for rotations to be quicker around the perimeter, so if anything that would play against them. However, when you have a player driving and creating off the dribble it breaks down defenses opening up shooters. This is what chris paul will do and it opens things for the shooters.



Bosh stays out of the paint because they have a 3 in LeBron that can attack the basket and score from anywhere on the court.

The Clippers have a 3 that doesn't do either of those things and is basically a spot up shooter.

The only guy that can create for themselves in that starting lineup is Chris Paul and at times Jamal Crawford.

So they have spot up shooters, and only ONE guy capable of drive and kicking, along with Blake and Jordan who don't demand double teams in the post thus there will be no freeing up of all the wing based one dimensional shooters they have just signed.  

So even then it's a different dynamic completely than Miami and still doesn't work.


Their lineup is like this

Paul(can create his own shot and drive and kick)
Crawford(can create his own shot)
Dudley(spot up shooter)
Redick(spot up shooter)
Griffin(can't get his own shot, can't shoot from the mid range and has no post game or hit free throws so he'd never demand a double team)
Deandre Jordan(can't get his own shot, can't shoot, can't hit free throws, has no post game whatsoever) 


The only guy on that team apparently that can create for himself is Paul and at times Crawford, aside from that they have an inside with no post presence and no one else capable of getting their own shot.   If you force Griffin or Deandre out of the paint to try to space the floor in ANY aspect you're going to fail.   Miami COULD do that with Haslem as well as Bosh cause they are both money from mid range.

Griffin and Jordan are not.

There's no reason to help off of anyone defensively on the Clippers which is what would get them wide open shots.


No one is gonna collapse on Griffin or Jordan or Crawford.  Maybe Chris Paul but that's it.  And that's not enough.   You can get away with planing one on one defense against the Clippers without helping off their shooters, and that's a problem when you just stockpiled your team with one dimensional shooters that need such opportunities to score.


Edited by Majesty, July 04, 2013 - 04:16 PM.

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#68 CueTheRain

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Posted July 04, 2013 - 04:20 PM

DeAndre Jordan is the epitome of what's wrong with NBA centers in this new era. All flashy athleticism, no fundamentals whatsoever. He's never going to improve beyond a potential rim blocker. Hate his guts too.



#69 PhillyLaker24

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Posted July 04, 2013 - 04:37 PM



Bosh stays out of the paint because they have a 3 in LeBron that can attack the basket and score from anywhere on the court.

The Clippers have a 3 that doesn't do either of those things and is basically a spot up shooter.

The only guy that can create for themselves in that starting lineup is Chris Paul and at times Jamal Crawford.

So they have spot up shooters, and only ONE guy capable of drive and kicking, along with Blake and Jordan who don't demand double teams in the post thus there will be no freeing up of all the wing based one dimensional shooters they have just signed.  

So even then it's a different dynamic completely than Miami and still doesn't work.


Their lineup is like this

Paul(can create his own shot and drive and kick)
Crawford(can create his own shot)
Dudley(spot up shooter)
Redick(spot up shooter)
Griffin(can't get his own shot, can't shoot from the mid range and has no post game or hit free throws so he'd never demand a double team)
Deandre Jordan(can't get his own shot, can't shoot, can't hit free throws, has no post game whatsoever) 


The only guy on that team apparently that can create for himself is Paul and at times Crawford, aside from that they have an inside with no post presence and no one else capable of getting their own shot.   If you force Griffin or Deandre out of the paint to try to space the floor in ANY aspect you're going to fail.   Miami COULD do that with Haslem as well as Bosh cause they are both money from mid range.

Griffin and Jordan are not.

There's no reason to help off of anyone defensively on the Clippers which is what would get them wide open shots.


No one is gonna collapse on Griffin or Jordan or Crawford.  Maybe Chris Paul but that's it.  And that's not enough.   You can get away with planing one on one defense against the Clippers without helping off their shooters, and that's a problem when you just stockpiled your team with one dimensional shooters that need such opportunities to score.

 

Alright everything you described how did they get worst? They lost butler who was inconsistent, and a back up pg who was overrated.

 

Please tell me how they got worst that is the case I am making. They have added two players that have grown every year they have been in the league. Sounds like better than having willie green starting and a declining caron butler.

 

Not here to make a case how the Clipper will have a glorious offense, but just that I feel they got better with this trade. Didnt really lose anything, but added players that are continuing to grow and better at doing what they do then who they lost. Isnt that the point of a trade?


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#70 Majesty

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Posted July 04, 2013 - 06:03 PM

Alright everything you described how did they get worst? They lost butler who was inconsistent, and a back up pg who was overrated.

 

Please tell me how they got worst that is the case I am making. They have added two players that have grown every year they have been in the league. Sounds like better than having willie green starting and a declining caron butler.

 

Not here to make a case how the Clipper will have a glorious offense, but just that I feel they got better with this trade. Didnt really lose anything, but added players that are continuing to grow and better at doing what they do then who they lost. Isnt that the point of a trade?


the problem is that the trade doesn't improve them while also making them more one dimensional.

Say what you want about Bledsoe, at the very least he added a dimension to that bench and was able to get his own shot.  He's overrated in YOUR opinion.  But the fact of the matter is he can get his shot better than Redick and Redick would need to be setup for his shots.  So like I said they are gonna be running with a group of guys where 95% percent of the team can't get their own shot and they only have one person on that team that MAYBE would call for a double team.  that's a problem unless they are gonna run Phoenix Suns basketball.   And once again I say they got Doc, not D'antoni.  if they want to be the Suns then trade us Doc and take D'antoni.


Edited by Majesty, July 04, 2013 - 06:04 PM.

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#71 PhillyLaker24

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Posted July 04, 2013 - 06:13 PM


the problem is that the trade doesn't improve them while also making them more one dimensional.

Say what you want about Bledsoe, at the very least he added a dimension to that bench and was able to get his own shot.  He's overrated in YOUR opinion.  But the fact of the matter is he can get his shot better than Redick and Redick would need to be setup for his shots.  So like I said they are gonna be running with a group of guys where 95% percent of the team can't get their own shot and they only have one person on that team that MAYBE would call for a double team.  that's a problem unless they are gonna run Phoenix Suns basketball.   And once again I say they got Doc, not D'antoni.  if they want to be the Suns then trade us Doc and take D'antoni.

 

Overrated in my opinion? Do you think he is an all star caliber player right now?

 

Redick was dominating the ball when nelson was out early on in ORL and was doing pretty good getting his own shot and dishing the ball. He might not be a guy that is gonna take your team off the dribble but he is more than just a spot up three shooter. They were gonna lose bledsoe soon because they wouldnt be able to give him money he wanted, so they turned him into something instead of nothing, Butler was making more money than Redick is now so they shaved dollars there as well.

 

You might feel they could of got more and guess what they probably could of. However, they did improve with this trade. Doc will get them playing defense, and chris paul will run an effective offense. If he ran a effective offense down in NO with that squad I think he will be fine with this starting 5. This is a better starting five than they had last year as the Clippers. Replacing willie green and caron butler with jared dudley and Redick is an upgrade.

 

You make it as their offense with this squad is so much worst, nothing really has changed except changing the role players with better role players.


Edited by PhillyLaker24, July 04, 2013 - 06:15 PM.

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