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Why can’t the Lakers win next season?


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#1 DanishLakerFan

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Posted July 01, 2013 - 11:31 PM

I’m so sick and tired of the notion that next season is going to be so bad that it’s hardly worth the effort to even try. I totally [expletive]ing disagree about this. I even felt the same about Boston and while I don’t like seeing those green butt-holes win anything I think their idea of blowing it up and starting from scratch was a mistake. IMO they were a one big-man and an injury to Rondo away from making a push this year.

Same with Lakers.

 

Consider this:

1. Our “big 4” missed a combined 75 games! That’s equivalent of the Heat missing Wade for 50 games.

2. Then add that we missed two of our most important bench players (Hill and Blake) for 90 games – which is the equivalent of the heat being without Shane Battier and Norris Cole for half the season.

3. Then there is the timing: While the injuries sucked, the timing of these injuries were horrible. Nash and Blake were injured at the same time and we were forced to play Morris and Duhon. Hill, Dwight and Pau were injured at the same time as well and we saw Jamison and Clark playing the 5 (!).

4. The coaching situation was a disaster as well. Brown implementing the Princeton with Nash and Dwight? MDA wanting to run-and-gun with an older team? We basically didn’t have anything resembling a workable system until Kobe told MDA what was going to happen – after that we went 28-12, despite injuries. 28-12 is .700 and a 55win team.

5. Then we make the playoffs without our best player and our other ball-handler (Nash) being hobbled against the soon-to-be western champs. No wonder we go swept. How do you think the Heat would have done had they been without Wade or LBJ for the Finals?

 

I think all we need this season, other than Howard to re-sign, is a couple of bona-fide role players, who can defend and spread the floor and more importantly, knows their role.

Ronnie Brewer, Dorrell Wright and a defensive minded PG would be enough. Then we need a full training camp and we need all players to be on the same page on both ends of the floor. Then I think we can win. I really think people underestimate how good a Dwight – Pau frontcourt could be.

We need a bit of luck as well, especially regarding injuries, but with our big-4 we should be able to manage everyone's minutes better than MDA did.

 

Following next season we see how few dollars Kobe and Pau are willing to accept and we add a max deal.



#2 bigfetz

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Posted July 01, 2013 - 11:34 PM

i0jJu.srS7LI.jpg

He cant figure it out either



#3 Tensai

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Posted July 01, 2013 - 11:39 PM

we'll win.



#4 Real Deal

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Posted July 01, 2013 - 11:44 PM

The starters were overworked all season long, especially Kobe.  The team needs some youth and athleticism, and a coach that can manage minutes properly + install an offense and defense that will allow him to play the second unit longer.

 

Our starters did miss games, but that wasn't a major issue.  We went 19-13 without Nash (and just 26-24 with him).  We lost efficiency at the guard position when he was out, but we gained defense (Blake and Morris are better defenders).

 

And that's just one example of how our season played out.

 

Another would be Ron Artest, who lost a step defensively (the only important aspect of his game, at this point), but was still a better defender than anyone else trying to defend SF's.  Thing is, his offense was horrific...yet, he took as many shots as anyone else NOT named Kobe on our team, which is flat out wrong.  He is most definitely not a second option.

 

Even though we didn't run the Triangle, the Princeton carries similar principles.  It was going to work much better than D'Antoni's idea for a system, but Mike Brown is not an offensive-minded coach, and Eddie Jordan really had no idea what he was doing.  

 

The team wasn't put together correctly, and the coaching wasn't effective.  Minutes weren't managed, and Kobe had to play in overdrive most of the season, especially near the end, just to get us into the playoffs.  

 

Even with the five healthy, we would have lost before the WCF.



#5 last stand 2.0

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Posted July 01, 2013 - 11:52 PM

We can compete next year as long as these things happen and these are necessities

Phil Jackson having some large input
Pau traded for 2-3 young, athletic guys. 1 starter and 2 solid bench guys
Kobe and Nash healthy
Dwight back
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#6 RobBlake

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Posted July 01, 2013 - 11:55 PM

We can compete next year as long as these things happen and these are necessities

Phil Jackson having some large input
Pau traded for 2-3 young, athletic guys. 1 starter and 2 solid bench guys
Kobe and Nash healthy
Dwight back

this. Pau needs to go especially and give us back at least one starter and a solid bench player


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#7 Majesty

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Posted July 01, 2013 - 11:58 PM

We can compete next year as long as these things happen and these are necessities

Phil Jackson having some large input
Pau traded for 2-3 young, athletic guys. 1 starter and 2 solid bench guys
Kobe and Nash healthy
Dwight back



if Dwight comes back is the biggest thing, but I'm pretty sure currently the Lakers are currently setting up all those other things to happen right now.


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#8 Anautikus

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Posted July 02, 2013 - 12:19 AM

If by the grace of the basketball gods, Dwight returns, Kobe returns with a whole new bag of deadly tricks, the FO cleverly rounds out the bench with a serviceable bunch, and Mike D'Antoni learns how to coach and instills a proper system while managing minutes and egos, the Lakers should be good. 

 

...too much?  :eh:


Edited by Anautikus, July 02, 2013 - 12:19 AM.

#DominateInjuries

#DominateHashtags

#DominateDominating

 

#KobeSystem


#9 DanishLakerFan

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Posted July 02, 2013 - 12:26 AM

The starters were overworked all season long, especially Kobe.  The team needs some youth and athleticism, and a coach that can manage minutes properly + install an offense and defense that will allow him to play the second unit longer.

 

Our starters did miss games, but that wasn't a major issue.  We went 19-13 without Nash (and just 26-24 with him).  We lost efficiency at the guard position when he was out, but we gained defense (Blake and Morris are better defenders).

 

And that's just one example of how our season played out.

 

Another would be Ron Artest, who lost a step defensively (the only important aspect of his game, at this point), but was still a better defender than anyone else trying to defend SF's.  Thing is, his offense was horrific...yet, he took as many shots as anyone else NOT named Kobe on our team, which is flat out wrong.  He is most definitely not a second option.

 

Even though we didn't run the Triangle, the Princeton carries similar principles.  It was going to work much better than D'Antoni's idea for a system, but Mike Brown is not an offensive-minded coach, and Eddie Jordan really had no idea what he was doing.  

 

The team wasn't put together correctly, and the coaching wasn't effective.  Minutes weren't managed, and Kobe had to play in overdrive most of the season, especially near the end, just to get us into the playoffs.  

 

Even with the five healthy, we would have lost before the WCF.

Everything you mention is related to coaching and i still belive that we can win with our current roster with a few tweeks, obviously. I think the Metta part is key. He isn't good enough defensively anymore to stay on the floor and he isn't good enough offensively either. A guy like Kyle Korver would have been better because he shoot fewer but better shots and his presence would chance how other teams defend.

I think the way to use Metta at this point is as a stretch-4.



#10 Tensai

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Posted July 02, 2013 - 12:55 AM

I guess D'Antoni injured Nash, Blake, Pau, Hill, Dwight, MWP himself.



#11 Real Deal

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Posted July 02, 2013 - 02:04 AM

I guess D'Antoni injured Nash, Blake, Pau, Hill, Dwight, MWP himself.

Smart coaches do not play one of the oldest teams in the NBA heavy minutes in an uptempo offense, then basically give up mid-season and allow the 34-year old superstar to play 45+ minutes in numerous games to snag a bottom four seed.

 

Simple question for you: do you believe a coach's decision-making has no impact on a player's health over the course of a season in professional sports?  A yes or no will do.



#12 Tensai

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Posted July 02, 2013 - 02:29 AM

D'Antoni wasn't even the coach when Nash was injured at the beginning of the season. Then, Blake got also injured. Who was he supposed to play for PG then? We started Morris 17 games.Then, dumb people talk about managing minutes. He did what he had to do. It is easy to say "Rest Kobe", had we done that we would win 35 games at max.

 

You should question FO before D'Antoni for not bringing ANY player after doing their job in summer. The team begged for reinforcements.

 

Honestly, the hunt for MDA's head is sickening. Every coach wants to play his system. When the FO contacted him regarding the job, MDA's pitch was probably playing through Nash and pick and roll action with Howard. You can't blame him for thinking like that. He did not have any training camp to see what is out there. He did not sit down with Kobe to discuss how the full team could play. We, as in whole organization, waited for Nash to come back before doing any adjustments on the team. When he came back, it was too late. And the situation with Dwight's torn labrum and Pau's plantar fascitis did not help either. It's true that Kobe HAD TO play 45+ minutes a game to keep the team in contention for playoffs. That is a very sad situation when you consider Kobe is 35 years old and into his 17th season. But he was BY FAR our best player and his will alone couldn't stop him from playing.

 

If we had a healthy squad throughout the season, I don't imagine our record and performance would turn out this way. Even with Dwight's post-rehab process we could have done well under D'Antoni.

 

Our roster was old and slow before D'Antoni took the job. We gambled, and it resulted in worst case possible. It might have turned out the way it did with 71-72 Lakers. We'll never know. But we got a glimpse of how this team can play when they are clicking. The process was long and painful to watch due to coaching change, and ridiculous injuries one after another. However, like Kobe said if they are given one more chance they can do it. Now FO has to do their job and reinforce the team with some perimeter shooting, and athleticism.

 

We have too much talent and too little time to waste.



#13 Real Deal

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Posted July 02, 2013 - 03:04 AM

Then, dumb people talk about managing minutes.

Quite funny, because plenty of professional analysts, and even a couple of retired NBA coaches, pointed out D'Antoni not managing players' minutes correctly all season long.  But, I know you heard it from them.  You're referring to the fans, who are repeating the same thing as these "dumb" professionals.

 

Of course, Gregg Popovich was probably "dumb" for pulling Tim Duncan and Tony Parker out of Game 2 of the NBA Finals, right?  He knew they needed rest, and decided to go ahead and rest them early.  He also did it many times during the season, losing games in the process, not knowing if he would be guaranteed HCA or not.  Ultimately, he didn't get it over the Heat...but instead of going into the playoffs without Tim Duncan, he did what he was paid to do as a coach.

 

When the FO contacted him regarding the job, MDA's pitch was probably playing through Nash and pick and roll action with Howard. You can't blame him for thinking like that. He did not have any training camp to see what is out there. He did not sit down with Kobe to discuss how the full team could play.

You don't play through a 38-39 year old PG that can't get to the rim anymore.  A decent coach would have known that.  When you have two SUPERSTARS on your team, you insert an offense that plays through them, not a guy coming off of a season in Phoenix that nearly killed him, physically, over just 62 games that he played.

 

But no, D'Antoni didn't know how to post a player up, the same way he didn't know how to post Shaq up effectively, or Amare.  He failed.

 

Our roster was old and slow before D'Antoni took the job.

And anyone who thought it was a good idea to run an uptempo offense with that roster was/is "dumb."

 

But we got a glimpse of how this team can play when they are clicking.

When?  Are you referring to their best stretch of the year, when Kobe carried them on his back?  Of course you are.  Nash wasn't there for our 7-1 record in April.  Again...with Nash, we went 26-24.  Without, we were 19-13.  What glimpse?

 

Kobe was clicking...and he was running on fumes.  The only other month we found success in was February, at 9-4...and a huge part of that was the All-Star break.  What glimpse?

 

Our main starting five of Kobe, Dwight, Nash, Gasol and Ron?  They went 0-7 on the season together.  What glimpse?

 

We had shooters.  Nash is one of the greatest shooters to ever play the game of basketball...arguably #1.  Meeks and Blake shoot the rock, Goudelock wasn't used at all, and Clark only had an opportunity once Gasol was injured.  Was any of that considered while we fought through the season, though?

 

This is all really funny to me.  I didn't want to say anything.  I wanted to turn my head, and hope that we move on from this disaster of a decision to bring in Mike D'Antoni.  I was hoping we would have learned from the Knicks, and a high-octane Suns team that got their ass beat in the first round by an older Spurs team that they could not defend, despite San Antonio being 15th in the league in offensive rating.

 

Now, we have a few fans who hang onto hope, and believe that Kobe will be able to give this team another 40+ minutes a night, some 28-30 PPG on some of the most efficient shooting we've seen from him in quite some time, and defending PG's that Nash has no shot at.  Meanwhile, we still have no defensive identity...because we have a coach who once STATED he does not coach defense.

 

We need perimeter shooting?  Is D'Antoni going to post up Dwight now, and run a much-slower halfcourt offense that is constructed for him?  If your answer is no, then perimeter shooting means nothing to this team because Nash cannot get to the rim anymore, and Kobe isn't going to be the same, regardless of how much I want him to.  If your answer is yes, tell me how long D'Antoni will have to study one of those Coach's Bibles in the local library.

 

The answer to the question I asked you earlier, by the way, is yes.  I figured I'd have to answer it.  D'Antoni ran this team into the ground.  Too little time to waste?  That's exactly what he had, and he didn't use all of that talent contained in this roster to make use of games he coached, even if it took him until mid-January to figure it out (which is really [expletive]ing generous for an NBA coach that has had 50-60+ wins in multiple seasons).  If it was a Bucks team he was taking over, he gets a pass...but it was clear as day what needed to happen here, yet it didn't.

 

Take up for him all you want, but you're wrong.  To basically look the other way when it comes to managing players' minutes, you're disrespecting the HOF coaches that have done it better than everyone else over time...especially guys like Chuck Daly, who had to preserve Zeke and Dumars, Popovich (with his older big three), and most of all, Phil Jackson, who sat Kobe whenever the hell he wanted, no matter the score.  Just your excuse, really.



#14 Majesty

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Posted July 02, 2013 - 03:15 AM

All I will say is that it took Mike Brown a second to know what kind of offense we should run.

The minute we got Steve Nash, Brown due to Kobe's idea was for us to run the Princeton.  

Once we got Nash camp and maybe a game into the pre-season he'd figured out that we need to play Nash off ball. 

When this forum was up in arms about why Mike Brown wasn't running Nash in the pick and roll and called for his head when he said of the old Phoenix led Nash teams "they were fun to watch but in the playoffs where were they?" or something to that effect.   I can't count how many people asked for his head.  

Then Mike D'antoni comes in, and shows everyone here, for one and a half months WHY Mike Brown was right and what a Nash lead offense would lead this team.  

What is the main knock everyone says about Mike Brown "He's not an offensive minded coach"

Yet HE was able to figure this out way before the "offensive minded" Mike D'antoni...

yeah....

Mike D'antoni should have known this coming in, but I agree, he probably sold that they would run the offense through Nash so Kobe could play off ball.

Because THAT is the style the front office wanted us to adopt.  That's why they went after Chris Paul, that's why they got Ramon Sessions.

They wanted to play a system and get a player that could take the ball off Kobe's hands, push tempo, score on his own, and allow Kobe to play off ball.

The problem is they were 2 years too late as far as Nash goes for that.

Mike Brown knew this, he wanted to play Nash off ball.
He was fired because of it. 

Phil Jackson knew this, wasn't sold on the idea of Nash being main distributor.
He was passed over.

Mike D'antoni's only offense he's ran was through point guards like Nash and that was what the front office wanted to hear.

He was hired.

It's really that simple really.

By the time everyone realized Nash was "SERIOUS" when he said he wanted to play the way Mike Brown was coaching and NOT run pick and roll every time down, and realized he wasn't just being a "team guy" it was too late, crap hit the fan, and we all got to see what would have happened if we ran pick and roll with Nash every time down.


Mike Brown knew it the moment we signed Nash.

It shouldn't have taken D'antoni a month and a half to figure it out.

Technically WITH Nash it only took him about 3/4ths of a month to figure it out.

Cause prior to Nash coming back we were running the offense through Kobe and with Blake off ball, but by necessity not by design.

When Nash came back we ran Nash ball for 3/4ths of a month and we saw the result, 7 games under .500.

D'antoni should have figured it out long before that


Edited by Majesty, July 02, 2013 - 03:16 AM.

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#15 LakersGAFan

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Posted July 02, 2013 - 03:39 AM

1. Our “big 4” 

What Big 4 do we have this season?


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#16 Tensai

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Posted July 02, 2013 - 04:01 AM

Popovich is working with same core for a decade. And he's built the chemistry needed for successful regular seasons. You can't put MDA against him and say "D'Antoni could have managed Kobe's minutes as well." No. That doesn't work that way. You can manage minutes if you have the backup to play.

 

Let's look at our injury history for this season.

 

Steve Nash: Missed 32 games (Hip/back/hamstring: 8 games, fractured right fibula: 24 games)

Steve Blake: Missed 37 games (Torn abdominal muscle: 37 games)

Pau Gasol: Missed 33 games (Tendinitis both knees: 8 games, concussion: 5 games, right plantar fascia tear: 20 games)

Jordan Hill: Missed 53 games (Torn labrum/damaged cartilage left hip: 53 games)

Dwight Howard: Missed 6 games (Torn labrum right shoulder: 6 games)

Metta World Peace: Missed 6 games (Right torn meniscus: 6 games)

 

That's 6 of the best 7 players in our team. How are you gonna manage the minutes with them unavailable, tell me. Are you gonna rest Kobe so that Goudelock or Ebanks can play 10 minutes a game? That's a very good plan right there.

 

You are rallying people into wrong cause. D'Antoni isn't the reason we have had ridiculous injuries, D'Antoni also isn't the reason we had 1st round exit.

 

------

 

Dwight Howard isn't the man he was in Orlando Magic. So you can excuse D'Antoni for not giving him more responsibilities on offensive end. He was stiff, and couldn't even elevate properly until end of the season. This post play crap or other things are secondary. The player has to be ready first if you are gonna play around him.

 

This team needing shooters is not related to what Dwight wants to do. We had the 3rd most 3P FGA in the league, yet we were only 19th, below league average, in shooting percentage. With teams doubling Kobe, Howard we have to create some proper spacing for outside shooters. The plan involved that, but the action was poor. Steve Nash isn't the man you are looking for if you want just that. Nash isn't a volume shooter, although he's the best shooter. Nash doesn't provide you 7/9 3PFG like Danny Green did in Finals. Nash is NOT a threat. Double that with him not being accustomed to that style, it won't produce any fruit. We have to get shooters, because that is what we need.

 

If you are gonna argue against the man, at least show some respect instead of spewing same [expletive] over and over again. D'Antoni willingly changed his coaching in LAST 40 games of the season, which resulted in 28-12 record. However, you are only looking at the cup as half empty while ignoring the improvements the team had especially in using Pau with Howard and Kobe. As far as I'm concerned, that was the most crucial point of the season. And if we indeed keep the core intact, we'll see a much better performance next season.

 

Kobe is always the man. When we won in 2010, our record was 57-25 of which those 6 wins came with Kobe game winners. Phil was the coach then, mind you. And if we hadn't won those games, we might have lost in 1st round. So long story short, look at the full picture instead of blaming it all on the coach.



#17 Jody Smokes

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Posted July 02, 2013 - 05:04 AM

I believe the Lakers had a good chance to make noise this past season but pretty much injuries killed them.  This in turned forced starters to be overworked for wins and no true chemistry or system was built around the core 4 guys.  It was always mainly 2 on 2 out all season. 


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#18 noknife

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Posted July 02, 2013 - 07:24 AM

They could do much better than they did last season, and probably will, they were cursed last season.  With that being said, they aren't a championship caliber team.



#19 Ham

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Posted July 02, 2013 - 08:11 AM

We coming back with vengeance. 


Edited by Ham, July 02, 2013 - 08:12 AM.

Mike D'Antoni is GARBAGE.


#20 Real Deal

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Posted July 02, 2013 - 08:34 AM

Dwight Howard wasn't the man he was in Orlando, although he did something (18/12/58%) that has only been done 15 times in NBA history, and five times since Shaq in 1994 (and Dwight has done it all five of those times).  He also put up his career averages, basically.

 

Not THAT far off.  He also didn't have a Kobe Bryant in Orlando...yet, we were a disaster compared to D12's teams.

 

What did he have, though?  SVG, a coach that realized his team needed to play a 4-out/1-in offense designed to take advantage of Howard's post presence, while maximizing each role player's abilities out on the court.  Hedo could handle the ball well, so he was allowed to quite often, while guys like Redick and Shard spaced the floor.  It all started with Dwight.

 

In LA, it all started with a 39-year old PG, feeding TWO superstars...and you'll never have an excuse for that ignorance.

 

Regarding minutes, you can't manage anyone's minutes if you're going to play them into injuries.  

 

What to know what's funny?  Steve Nash (MDA's boyfriend) played just ONE game over 40 minutes.

 

Dwight Howard?  17 games over.

 

Kobe Bryant?  29 games.

 

That injury to Blake must not have mattered.  He didn't overplay Nash.  He managed his minutes.

 

Want to know what's funny?  Just that 12 of those 29 games Kobe played so long happened before January, and 11 of the 12 with Mike D'Antoni coaching (and 28 of the 29 under him).

 

It didn't matter when it was during the season...Kobe didn't get the proper amount of rest with D'Antoni coaching.

 

As far as Nash not being the guy to spread the floor goes...that was part of his adjustment, and he failed.  Fortunately, you don't need to be 25 years old to be an excellent floor-spacing spot-up shooter, but I suppose Nash's IQ is far too high to play like Ray Allen, Reggie Miller, or Rip Hamilton.






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