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Steve Nash

what will he do ??

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#41 BasketballIQ

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Posted June 30, 2013 - 02:11 PM

I like nash as a helper defensively. Like I said his speed isnt a factor, because besides Hill, all Pgs get toasted in my book. You need a long , quick team to keep these point guards from dominating you



#42 Real Deal

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Posted June 30, 2013 - 02:12 PM

And Real Deal, put the record of Kobe,Dwight and nash vs kobe, Dwight with Duhon

Duhon was our fourth-best PG...shot overall worse than Nash/Blake/Morris, shot threes worse than them, scored the least, defended horribly.    If you're wanting me to compare Nash to Duhon, you aren't making much of a statement.  Stop trolling.



#43 Real Deal

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Posted June 30, 2013 - 02:13 PM

I like nash as a helper defensively. Like I said his speed isnt a factor, because besides Hill, all Pgs get toasted in my book. You need a long , quick team to keep these point guards from dominating you

Were the 2008 and the 2010 Celtics "long and quick" when Rondo was locking down everyone at the PG position?



#44 BasketballIQ

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Posted June 30, 2013 - 02:19 PM

Few?

 

Bradley-point guard-Please...Imagine him and kobe in the backcourt. Yuck,,great defender though

Rondo-yup, though not a shut down iso type defender, his length and speed has value defensively, plus rondo plays bigger..Kinda like J Kidd 

CP3-great hands, can get burned by good point guards though. Sessions lit him up

Williams-HAS the tools, but doesn't use them enough. Better on Sgs than Pgs, and not that good on either

Hinrich-yup, dirty but you wouldn't want him OVER Nash though

Kidd-not last year but all time top 3 defensively. No argument there

Lowry-doesn't show it in my opinion. Competes with Pgs, but more like tit for that

Conley-yup, but can still get handled . tony Parker got anywhere he wanted against the guy

Westbrook-Yeah, just so quick and strong, I mean he can get lost at times depending too much on his gifts

Holiday-haven't seen it. He was a good defender in college but I haven't seen enough of him to make that judgement in the pros

 

 

 

Okay, and George hill as well, but still, not MANY who you would say tHESE players are certainly better than Nash AND better fits



#45 BasketballIQ

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Posted June 30, 2013 - 02:22 PM

Were the 2008 and the 2010 Celtics "long and quick" when Rondo was locking down everyone at the PG position?

Rondo was long and quick and didn't play THAt mant minutes as I recall. they had Posey and Garnett and Brown, and Tony Allen , and ray and Pierce were one year away from being old, and they have good size for their position.

 

I mean you don't have to be OKC, where the 1,2,3 and 3 are all BIG for their position, but we know that those team defenses were STEllar.

 

i remember in 2009 though, Westbrook putting about 35 on Rondo with NO Durant there, it was incredible .



#46 Real Deal

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Posted June 30, 2013 - 02:23 PM

Sessions lit CP3 up because of the P&R.  ISO, he didn't have a chance.  You watched the game.

 

Same with Tony Parker against Conley, although Parker is actually an all-star player.  The Spurs P&R'ed the Grizzlies to death that series, and Memphis had no answer to it.

 

Nash is an incredible shooter off a P&R.  He can't get to the rim anymore, especially if there's a defensive anchor underneath, and he most certainly cannot defend, help or individual.  Come on.



#47 Real Deal

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Posted June 30, 2013 - 02:25 PM

Rondo was long and quick and didn't play THAt mant minutes as I recall. they had Posey and Garnett and Brown, and Tony Allen , and ray and Pierce were one year away from being old, and they have good size for their position.

 

I mean you don't have to be OKC, where the 1,2,3 and 3 are all BIG for their position, but we know that those team defenses were STEllar.

 

i remember in 2009 though, Westbrook putting about 35 on Rondo with NO Durant there, it was incredible .

There's your argument for 2008 (even though Rondo played 30 minutes a game for them, kind of like Nash did for us last year, but I digress), but when Rondo turned all-star...?  He played 37 MPG for Boston in 2010, and that's one year I pointed out.

 

EDIT: You also said "long and quick" regarding the team behind the PG, not the PG.



#48 Majesty

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Posted June 30, 2013 - 02:25 PM

Sessions lit CP3 up because of the P&R.  ISO, he didn't have a chance.  You watched the game.

 

Same with Tony Parker against Conley, although Parker is actually an all-star player.  The Spurs P&R'ed the Grizzlies to death that series, and Memphis had no answer to it.

 

Nash is an incredible shooter off a P&R.  He can't get to the rim anymore, especially if there's a defensive anchor underneath, and he most certainly cannot defend, help or individual.  Come on.



Nope, he's best suited as an off ball shooter and a guy who guards spot up shooters that can't get to the basket.   Otherwise we're depending on Dwight(if he remains) to do the heavy lifting on that end.

This wouldn't be bad if we didn't have to depend on Pau to be the help defender to rotate over.   Hence why Clark or Hill would be better in that role.

And ugh that Clippers game... it's so bitter sweet for me because Deandre jacked up Sessions shoulder and he wasn't right after that. :no:


Edited by Majesty, June 30, 2013 - 02:26 PM.

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#49 Real Deal

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Posted June 30, 2013 - 02:30 PM

Nope, he's best suited as an off ball shooter

Can't say he is, because he doesn't know how to move off the ball yet.  He refused to do it effectively in the second half of the season, and Kobe literally had to force the ball into his hands, adjusting to Nash's poor positioning on the court.  I believe Nash even acknowledged this in an interview, talking about how he is struggling to play off the ball, not used to it, something similar to that...and it showed.

 

Spotting up, and camping out, are two different things to me.  Ray Allen is an incredible spot-up shooter.  He utilizes screens better than anyone in NBA history not named Reggie Miller (and you can argue between them, actually), where Nash does nothing of the sort.  Nash needs breast-fed when he doesn't have the ball in his hands.

 

Now, will that change?  I don't know, but I can't sit here and say a player will be able to change the way he plays, that dramatically, at nearly 40 years old...especially when that player used to be the main ingredient of a high-octane offense that depended heavily on him for so many years.



#50 Majesty

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Posted June 30, 2013 - 02:34 PM

Can't say he is, because he doesn't know how to move off the ball yet.  He refused to do it effectively in the second half of the season, and Kobe literally had to force the ball into his hands, adjusting to Nash's poor positioning on the court.  I believe Nash even acknowledged this in an interview, talking about how he is struggling to play off the ball, not used to it, something similar to that...and it showed.

 

Spotting up, and camping out, are two different things to me.  Ray Allen is an incredible spot-up shooter.  He utilizes screens better than anyone in NBA history not named Reggie Miller (and you can argue between them, actually), where Nash does nothing of the sort.  Nash needs breast-fed when he doesn't have the ball in his hands.

 

Now, will that change?  I don't know, but I can't sit here and say a player will be able to change the way he plays, that dramatically, at nearly 40 years old...especially when that player used to be the main ingredient of a high-octane offense that depended heavily on him for so many years.




That is a reason I think him and Blake are the perfect start and backup.

The reason is because of what they work with each other on.


Nash helps Blake on things that can make Blake a better player in the pick and roll as well as getting his own shot at times, and Blake can help Nash in terms of adjusting to being an off ball shooter which Blake is very familiar with especially playing with us for the last few years.   So I think they compliment each other well especially in practice.


But now that you've mentioned Sessions I'm gonna go watch the trailblazers game he started in last season and while missing the offense we played that year as compared to the one we ran this year :sorry:


Edited by Majesty, June 30, 2013 - 02:34 PM.

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#51 BasketballIQ

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Posted June 30, 2013 - 02:37 PM

I see what you mean.

 

But whatt I mean is this

 

 

We aren't better without Nash.

 

 

You can't say Lowry because that opportunity never came up.

 

 

Nash knows how to set screens to get open, but more than anything, our line-up shuffles didn't help.

 

 

Ron was damn near USELESS if you want to talk about EMPTY numbers.

 

 

Watching the games, I know Nash was a Star level payer for us. At times I felt Nash contributed more offensively than anyone but kobe.

 

 

defensively, I felt like Nash was SMARt, unlike so many players I have seen in the past, even like Shannon or farmar or Sasha, they made plays that made up say"Are you paying attention?

 

 

Nash got handled a few times, but he game it to a few cats in the process, I like Nash bottom line and glad he is here, I don't think a guy like

 

Bledsoe is better for example, even with his defensive potential



#52 The Big Fish

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Posted June 30, 2013 - 02:42 PM

Problem is, Kidd finished his career shooting 0-235, or something like that.

 

Nash isn't going to become an awful shooter, but his incredibly bad defense, and his inability to get to the rim these days, is becoming a huge liability.  Nash can't score enough points, or make enough passes, to make up for it anymore...and that's generally what happens when you age.

 

So, for a guy who will make a total of $19 million over the next two seasons, leading into him being an eye-opening 41 years old, I really don't care what we do with him...but he can't have a large role on this team.  A big reason why we didn't P&R with him and Dwight is because Nash is no longer the offensive threat he used to be in Phoenix...and the injuries this season only made that worse.

I remember that but the Knicks used Kidd to his strengths and negated his weaknesses. We have to find a way to mask Nash's problems to the best of our ability. We have two more years of him unless he decides to hang em up after this season. 


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#53 Real Deal

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Posted June 30, 2013 - 02:59 PM

I remember that but the Knicks used Kidd to his strengths and negated his weaknesses. We have to find a way to mask Nash's problems to the best of our ability. We have two more years of him unless he decides to hang em up after this season. 

Of course.  I wasn't really debating anything.  It was more about J-Kidd sliding downhill, drastically, than anything else.  The last series he played in (the Pacers), he did nothing right.  Missed 17 shots, and every shot he took, in 10 consecutive games starting in the third game of the Boston/NY series.  Scoreless in every game.  Played below average defensively, didn't throw as many assists closing as he closed in on retirement, and he played 11 total minutes in his final two games.

 

But if you were talking about J-Kidd in the regular season, that's fine, but he was even pretty bad then.  Not even sure if he averaged five assists on a team that was ranked 3rd in offensive rating.



#54 lakersince75

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Posted June 30, 2013 - 03:10 PM

The difference is at one point in Fishers career he was an excellent defender. Nash was never a great defender. A world class point guard but never a defender. I still think we are much better with him than without. I know this though, he needs to be a healthy Nash and only play 30 minutes per game 

not a good defender, just better than i thought.

 

 

the worst defender i have seen is Sessions. Nash is on par with Fisher. I think few PGs have REAL value defensively



#55 TKainZero

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Posted June 30, 2013 - 06:30 PM

After Dwight walks, lakers need to decide what to do with nash...

 

I think there is a 10% nash retires before the season starts...

Although nashs defense will help us get to Wiggins, his offense is a serious problem...



#56 Majesty

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Posted June 30, 2013 - 06:43 PM

After Dwight walks, lakers need to decide what to do with nash...

 

I think there is a 10% nash retires before the season starts...

Although nashs defense will help us get to Wiggins, his offense is a serious problem...



Lakers don't tank so you can stop right there :)


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#57 TKainZero

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Posted June 30, 2013 - 06:45 PM



Lakers don't tank so you can stop right there :)

 

And clippers don't win division titles...

 

 

Its a strange world out there...



#58 Majesty

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Posted June 30, 2013 - 06:45 PM

And clippers don't win division titles...

 

 

Its a strange world out there...


and they still lost in the first round.

Same old world.


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#59 BasketballIQ

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Posted June 30, 2013 - 06:48 PM

The difference is at one point in Fishers career he was an excellent defender. Nash was never a great defender. A world class point guard but never a defender. I still think we are much better with him than without. I know this though, he needs to be a healthy Nash and only play 30 minutes per game 

You talking about when bibby used to light him up or Troy Hudson or Damon Stodamire or jason Williams orWHEN has Fisher EVER slowed down ANY PG that the Lakers faced.

 

Iverson?

 

oops..try again.

 

 

Fish never shut down ANYONe, BUT he had defensive intangibles, he got big steals and took charges at the right time.

 

 

nash is similar, but you just have to give him a chance.

 

if he sucked, like Sessions, I would say it, but his reputation is worse than his defense truly is in my opinon



#60 gque24

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Posted July 01, 2013 - 06:43 AM

Who cares he barely showed up last season

Steve Nash has to be feeling a little like Jamison regarding going to a championship contender. Do you think he will want out if D12 leaves and what kind of player will he be for us even healthy??


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