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Are you willing to take Blake Griffin if D12 wants to leave or just let D12 walk?


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Poll: Willing to get Blake Griffin if D12 walk? (57 member(s) have cast votes)

Yes. Lakers need to atleast get something if D12 wants to leave.

  1. No. Blake Griffin is so over rated. I rather use D12 cap space for other things. (25 votes [43.86%])

    Percentage of vote: 43.86%

  2. Yes. Lakers need to atleast get something if D12 wants to leave. (26 votes [45.61%])

    Percentage of vote: 45.61%

  3. Not sure what I want to do yet. (6 votes [10.53%])

    Percentage of vote: 10.53%

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#81 Majesty

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Posted June 20, 2013 - 08:50 AM

I don't think Griffin is all that unique at all,and he definitely doesn't have the tools to be a good defensive player. He's got an average wingspan and his lateral defense is terrible. He'd need a ton of work to even become half-decent on that end of the floor. I'm not sure you realize how big of a leap you're making by throwing out Karl Malone there.

 

I've been saying all along that it's Dwight + All-Star Free Agent or bust. I do not want a pairing of Griffin + All-Star because we won't be good enough to be a contender out West. If Dwight leaves us, we rebuild from the ground up with a fresh slate. You don't gift him to the Clippers to pair him up with Chris Paul and form a potential dynasty right across the hallway. That would be the worst move in Lakers history.

 

I'm just not understanding why so many of you guys aren't seeing the potential consequences of pairing Chris Paul and Dwight Howard together.


I pretty much consider it this way.


As long as Blake Griffin is the second option or franchise player next to CP3 the Clippers won't go further than the 1st or 2nd round.

If Dwight Howard was the second option or franchise player next to CP3 that team has potential to contend for an NBA Championship.

Dwight already has lead a team to an NBA Championship for the most part with little help.  I don't see Griffin doing that for the Clippers prior to CP3 getting there.


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#82 L.A.K.E.R

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Posted June 20, 2013 - 08:53 AM

Magic and Oscar Robertson?

 

What about them? LeBron isn't a passer on the level of Magic, but his court awareness is just as good in my opinion. He's just not flashy, that's the difference. The ability to facilitate and find such crazy angles from that height are what make the two of them so unique compared to so many other players in NBA history. An extra two inches opens up the floor when you can see right over the defense and see plays forming.

 

Not sure about Oscar Robertson, as I haven't gone out of my way to study up on his game too much. Most of what I've heard of him is hearsay, and I take most of that with a grain of salt because I'm pretty skeptical about anything from so long ago. Basketball just wasn't the same quality until around the mid-late 70s when we transitioned to the modern era.



#83 PhillyLaker24

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Posted June 20, 2013 - 09:09 AM

^ Yes Blake can become more than what he is.   But the question is does he really want to? 

Seems to me that at the end of the day no matter how much work he puts in during the summer to add other aspects to his game, eventually he reverts back to what he knows best which is dunking and relying on that same one spin move and maybe 1 out of every 10 games he'll use that step back jumper he worked on as opposed to spotting up from mid range which he does the other 90% of the time on the perimeter.

This is why he gets shut down in the playoffs.

He works on other aspects of his game during the summer, but when they don't come naturally to him in the game, rather than continuing to work on them till they do he reverts back to what he knows best and let's CP3 force feed him the rest of the way.

It's the kind of mentality like that and an "Eh.. I'll get it later." attitude that can really stunt the kids game imo.

 

Yea that is the only thing I dont know about blake. I feel like his game can grow a lot, but if he doesnt have the mindset to improve those areas they wont. Not being a clipper fan or blake fan I really havent followed the news around Blake i.e. his attitude and mental state in wanting to improve. However, if he does choose to improve those things I really feel like he can get a pretty consistent jump shot and a post game by working on foot work. He will have that ability to take off and fly until he is somewhere in his 30's, but unless he doesnt add those things to his game I agree he isnt that good. The thing about him is his potential is just more than people give him credit for, there are weapons he needs to add to his game he just has to want to do it, sure something comes more natural to one person than another, but if you put time in at the gym and work at it you can improve. Blakes big thing he can do is take off, but has pretty good body control for a guy that is 6'10. You throw in some footwork and he changes his mindset to fight through the contact he can be a nice force down low. Like I said earlier dont think he has the star potential of Lebron, but he def has the potential to be a vital instrument in a run at a chip. He wont be your MVP, but what NBA championship team doesnt have a really solid number two option that can take off pressure from the first guy, and even at times carry a team for a quarter or two? This is what I feel like Blake has the potential to be he just needs to pick up some more skills and round out his game.


Edited by PhillyLaker24, June 20, 2013 - 09:10 AM.

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#84 BleedPurple&Gold

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Posted June 20, 2013 - 09:29 AM

By no means am I trying to put down Blake and make him out to be some scrub, that's far from what I'm trying to say. I think he's a real solid player, definitely a top 3 PF in the league today. The biggest difference between him and LeBron, in my opinion, is probably that I see Blake's ceiling to be far lower. I just don't see him becoming some amazing all-around PF 3-4 years down the road to where you could run an offense through him on a championship caliber team. He looks like the kind of player that could be a good 2nd or 3rd option, but only if you have a legitimate superstar alongside him. I'm just not optimistic at all about him, it's really hard to explain why, it's more a gut feeling than anything.

 

Like, when you see certain players, you can make educated guesses about their potential and whatnot, but there are those guys who just leave such an impression that you see them becoming something big in the future.

 

When I saw LeBron as a rookie, I was blown away by how quick he was at his size (size meaning height, he didn't fill out for a few years), how coordinated he was, and how smart he was on the floor. 3 years later, he was leading his Cavs to the Finals against the Spurs at the age of 22. He was for real, easily a top 5 player by the time he was 23 or 24. I felt the same way about Durant who was super-awkward as a 2/3 hybrid his first year in Seattle, but he had serous potential. In 4 years he went from a pretty good prospect to the 2nd best player in the entire league. To a lesser extent, I saw similar glimpses in Dirk Nowtizki and Steve Nash in the early 00s when they were paired up on the Mavericks. Neither were particularly amazing (a far cry from their MVP-level play a couple of years later), Dirk was especially awkward back then, but they just had something that made me think they could become REALLY good players in the future. And it happened.

 

I just don't get the same vibe from Griffin at all. I just don't think he has the skill level nor is he blessed with something as unique as any of these guys I've mentioned. Nash was always crafty and a nice shooter, Dirk is one of the most unique players in NBA history, Durant has had that freaky length and scoring ability, and LeBron has that court vision and awareness in addition to being physically gifted. Blake just seems like a guy who will remain a solid All-Star caliber big man his entire career, maybe extend his range by a foot or two, but will ultimately not become a superstar player. Basically Shawn Kemp, minus the defensive ability because Griffin doesn't have the wingspan. I just don't think he has a high ceiling as any of these guys I've mentioned.

 

If he does end up becoming some superstar who leads his team to a title as the best player on the team I'll gladly eat crow, but I just don't see it happening at all.

 

same here. Unless Blake Improves but I don't really see any improvements


Edited by BleedPurple&Gold, June 20, 2013 - 09:36 AM.

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#85 Nego

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Posted June 20, 2013 - 10:09 AM

I would take Blake and bledsoe for D12 anyday, dwight will probably be better this coming year but im still not sure dwight will be back at the superstar level he was back in orlando, I know that most likely he will but what if it takes him another year so might as well take griffin and bledsoe because I do think Kobe can be a great mentor to Griffin and possibly make him a much better player.


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#86 DanishLakerFan

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Posted June 20, 2013 - 10:15 AM

I don't think Griffin is all that unique at all,and he definitely doesn't have the tools to be a good defensive player. He's got an average wingspan and his lateral movement is terrible. He doesn't have any natural defensive instincts either, which are hard to develop. He'd need a ton of work to even become half-decent on that end of the floor. I'm not sure you realize how big of a leap you're making by throwing out Karl Malone there.

 

I've been saying all along that it's Dwight + All-Star Free Agent or bust. I do not want a pairing of Griffin + All-Star because we won't be good enough to be a contender out West. If Dwight leaves us, we rebuild from the ground up with a fresh slate. You don't gift him to the Clippers to pair him up with Chris Paul and form a potential dynasty right across the hallway. That would be the worst move in Lakers history.

 

I'm just not understanding why so many of you guys aren't seeing the potential consequences of pairing Chris Paul and Dwight Howard together.

I'm not exactly saying Blake Griffin is Karl Malone, i'm saying that he could develop into a similar player as Malone and i'm not exactly the only one who have made that comparison. http://www.slamonlin...e-lebron-james/

 

Also, i just dont agree that it's Dwight + All-star free agent or bust. I think Blake Griffin can be a 2nd option on a championship team and i think Bledsoe can be the starting PG on a championship team - or traded for assets.

 

Even if you dont want to build around Griffin, wouldn't you at least want to have him on the books and then move him for a handfull of assets? That would speed up the rebuilding process significantly. 



#87 BasketballIQ

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Posted June 20, 2013 - 11:45 AM

Is Kobe the same player he was after 3 seasons?

 

LeBron got better in his tenth season, by a considerable amount.

 

 

 

But GOD, LeBron is so overrated.

 

 

 

He is a big ball of energy, but its not as focused as Larry,MJ,Magic or Kobe. I dont care what his NUMBERS are, I don't care about his efficiency.

 

This is my explanation. LeBron isn't a momentum changer. He rides the wave, but he doesn't all out change energy, the way the aforementioned group did.

 

he has guys who do that at some level though.

 

Wade is one. Chalmers is another.Battier and Mike Miller have that in them. LeBron, has a lot of tools, but some guys know how to use the few tools they have much more effectively.



#88 L.A.K.E.R

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Posted June 20, 2013 - 01:28 PM

I'm not exactly saying Blake Griffin is Karl Malone, i'm saying that he could develop into a similar player as Malone and i'm not exactly the only one who have made that comparison. http://www.slamonlin...e-lebron-james/

 

Also, i just dont agree that it's Dwight + All-star free agent or bust. I think Blake Griffin can be a 2nd option on a championship team and i think Bledsoe can be the starting PG on a championship team - or traded for assets.

 

Even if you dont want to build around Griffin, wouldn't you at least want to have him on the books and then move him for a handfull of assets? That would speed up the rebuilding process significantly. 

 

Yeah, that was Craig Smith who said that in 2010:

 

‘I can say this. I never played against Karl Malone,” Smith said. “But he has the strength of Karl Malone but can run and jump like LeBron James. He can definitely make LeBron plays, defensively. Out in the open, he can make something special happen. He’s kind of like a specialist. He has the best of both worlds. The physical strength, the power and he can run like a deer. I wouldn’t be surprised if he was running a 40-yard dash with a car in the way, if he wouldn’t hurt the car versus hurting himself.’”

 

I'm not going to put much stock into someone throwing out blanket statements like that.

 

Well, then you'd still need a legitimate 1st option to pair alongside him, and we're not going to be getting that anytime soon. LeBron coming here in free agency is a pipe dream and I can't think of any reason why he'd want to come here after all the crap he went through to get to Miami. If we have Bledsoe and Griffin, we're still just stuck at square one.

 

You NEED that superstar who can carry a team, that player who can make a decisive impact on the game like a Chris Paul, Dwight Howard, or LeBron James. Otherwise, we remain mediocre and we're in the position of not being horrible enough to tank for a top pick, but not good enough to be a major team in the playoffs. That's the worst position to be in.

 

Say we did trade for him and then we moved him afterwards. We'd be getting a handful of assets to remain mediocre for the immediate future. No thanks. That's not acceptable when you've basically handed the Clippers a dream pairing of Chris Paul and Dwight Howard in the middle of their primes.

 

Better to go with a clean slate than help the Clippers to a potential dynasty.



#89 Scott P

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Posted June 20, 2013 - 03:37 PM

MDA is a superstar killer?  Really?  So Nash didn't win two MVP's with him as coach?  So Stoudamire wasn't first team all pro with him as coach?  So Linsanity didn't erupt with him as a coach? Say what you want about the guy, but calling him a superstar killer is ignorant?  



#90 Mike D'Antoni

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Posted June 20, 2013 - 03:44 PM

How are amares knees after antoni ran him to the ground. Steve Nash healthy now? Kobe just didn't suffer his worst injury to date. Antoni is a bonafide scrub. He's garbage. Can't coach at any level

#91 Majesty

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Posted June 20, 2013 - 03:45 PM

How are amares knees after antoni ran him to the ground. Steve Nash healthy now? Kobe just didn't suffer his worst injury to date. Antoni is a bonafide scrub. He's garbage. Can't coach at any level


You think Amare's injuries are because of Mike D'antoni? :eh:


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#92 Mike D'Antoni

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Posted June 20, 2013 - 03:56 PM

No. Amares knees aren't fully Antonis fault but mike ran him into the ground. So its partially his fault. Amare was Blake griffin but 10 times better

#93 DanishLakerFan

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Posted June 20, 2013 - 07:06 PM

Yeah, that was Craig Smith who said that in 2010:
 

 
I'm not going to put much stock into someone throwing out blanket statements like that.
 
Well, then you'd still need a legitimate 1st option to pair alongside him, and we're not going to be getting that anytime soon. LeBron coming here in free agency is a pipe dream and I can't think of any reason why he'd want to come here after all the crap he went through to get to Miami. If we have Bledsoe and Griffin, we're still just stuck at square one.
 
You NEED that superstar who can carry a team, that player who can make a decisive impact on the game like a Chris Paul, Dwight Howard, or LeBron James. Otherwise, we remain mediocre and we're in the position of not being horrible enough to tank for a top pick, but not good enough to be a major team in the playoffs. That's the worst position to be in.
 
Say we did trade for him and then we moved him afterwards. We'd be getting a handful of assets to remain mediocre for the immediate future. No thanks. That's not acceptable when you've basically handed the Clippers a dream pairing of Chris Paul and Dwight Howard in the middle of their primes.
 
Better to go with a clean slate than help the Clippers to a potential dynasty.


And Jason Kidd: http://www.dallasnew...karl-malone.ece

Again you are takling nonsense: it's better to have "a clean slate" than a handfull of picks and assets?
Worst case you can have multiple picks and a young star. Unless you're aiming for bottom next season (which should include using Amnesty on other than Metta) we won't have a High pick. Trade Griffin halfway through season and get a handfull.

#94 L.A.K.E.R

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Posted June 21, 2013 - 12:30 AM

And Jason Kidd: http://www.dallasnew...karl-malone.ece

Again you are takling nonsense: it's better to have "a clean slate" than a handfull of picks and assets?
Worst case you can have multiple picks and a young star. Unless you're aiming for bottom next season (which should include using Amnesty on other than Metta) we won't have a High pick. Trade Griffin halfway through season and get a handfull.

 

Are you seriously not comprehending the full impact of allowing the Clippers to pair up two of the best players in the league side by side? Both of whom are the best at their given positions AND are complementary to eachother's games? I really can't believe that I'm having to spell this out. And I'm the one talking nonsense? And why are you linking me to tidbits from his rookie year when Blake has barely shown any improvement in the last 3 years?

 

What part of Blake Griffin + All-Star = mediocre team is difficult to understand? You get a high pick if you go with a clean slate and rebuild from the ground up. Not next season, this is a multiple year plan in the future once Kobe is retired. With Griffin or a "handful" of nice pieces, we're getting a diminished return on our initial investment of a superstar in Dwight Howard. You won't get some amazing assets from Griffin, not unless we swindle a team into dealing us the 1st pick for Andrew Wiggins or something. It's not so simple covering the void that a player like Dwight Howard will leave behind. And the reminders will be there right across the hallway as he and Chris Paul unleash one of the most lethal P&R combinations of all time on the league.

 

I'd rather we be horrible and tank for a few years than remain mediocre for a decade while the Clippers become the MUCH better team AND the premier team in Los Angeles. No amount of Lakers homerism will change the fact that the Clippers would easily become the hottest ticket in town if they had a pairing of Dwight Howard and Chris Paul and dominating the Western Conference. We wouldn't even be in the conversation unless by some miracle LeBron joined us, but that will be impossible after tonight.

 

Oh nice, we'll have a couple of 27th-30th picks as the Clippers run through a depleted Western Conference with many of their 00s eras stars retiring and barely any competition aside from the Thunder. I can't wait to be a 6th-8th seed getting knocked out in the 1st round every year. Sounds great.



#95 fido

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Posted June 21, 2013 - 12:51 AM

Scott P, you've got your analysis backwards.

 

The success D'Antoni found in Phoenix was due to Steve Nash, not the other way around.  And even then he failed to learn the ability to manage the team to the Finals, when by all accounts they should've been there.

 

I wouldn't brand him as a "superstar killer", but I'd certainly brand him as a simply terrible NBA coach.



#96 DanishLakerFan

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Posted June 21, 2013 - 05:25 AM

Are you seriously not comprehending the full impact of allowing the Clippers to pair up two of the best players in the league side by side? Both of whom are the best at their given positions AND are complementary to eachother's games? I really can't believe that I'm having to spell this out. And I'm the one talking nonsense? And why are you linking me to tidbits from his rookie year when Blake has barely shown any improvement in the last 3 years?

 

What part of Blake Griffin + All-Star = mediocre team is difficult to understand? You get a high pick if you go with a clean slate and rebuild from the ground up. Not next season, this is a multiple year plan in the future once Kobe is retired. With Griffin or a "handful" of nice pieces, we're getting a diminished return on our initial investment of a superstar in Dwight Howard. You won't get some amazing assets from Griffin, not unless we swindle a team into dealing us the 1st pick for Andrew Wiggins or something. It's not so simple covering the void that a player like Dwight Howard will leave behind. And the reminders will be there right across the hallway as he and Chris Paul unleash one of the most lethal P&R combinations of all time on the league.

 

I'd rather we be horrible and tank for a few years than remain mediocre for a decade while the Clippers become the MUCH better team AND the premier team in Los Angeles. No amount of Lakers homerism will change the fact that the Clippers would easily become the hottest ticket in town if they had a pairing of Dwight Howard and Chris Paul and dominating the Western Conference. We wouldn't even be in the conversation unless by some miracle LeBron joined us, but that will be impossible after tonight.

 

Oh nice, we'll have a couple of 27th-30th picks as the Clippers run through a depleted Western Conference with many of their 00s eras stars retiring and barely any competition aside from the Thunder. I can't wait to be a 6th-8th seed getting knocked out in the 1st round every year. Sounds great.

First of all, forget the Malone comparison.

Regarding the Clippers. They’re going to be good for a while and we as Laker fans have to accept that. Even without Dwight, if they get Doc Rivers, KG and Pierce and move Bledsoe for Afflalo, they’re going to be an insanely good team that can compete for a championship. I just think and hope that with the new cba and their cheap retard of an owner they will eventually do something very cheap and Clipper-ish and end up missing their opportunity. Also, I really don’t trust the health of CP going forward – a season or two, perhaps, but he is one of the guys who cannot afford to lose a step. At the same time I don’t trust the health of KG or Pierce either.

 

Back to Griffin. I really disagree on Griffin’s potential as well. If you had to pick a guy who could be a #2 or #3 option on a championship team going forward, I think with Griffin’s age, skills and athleticism, he’d be among the top guys you'd look at and if you wanted to rebuild you could easily move him for a young prospect and a couple of high picks, which would really speed up the rebuilding process.

 

Also, why does Griffin+all star sound that bad? With Griffin and Bledsoe and perhaps Kobe and Pau willing to take less, that all-star could be Lebron James.

 

Finally, giving Dwight up to the damn Rockets for nothing is to me just as bad an idea as “helping” the Clippers. If the Rockets signed Dwight, they could do a sign-and-trade deal with Asik or Lin for a guy like Millsap or Josh Smith and being under the cap they could even use the full mid-level. That’s a potential strong team as well.



#97 LakersFanatic

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Posted June 21, 2013 - 05:39 AM

I really wish CP3 could just sacrifice his salary for 1 year and sign with us until we can max him next year.



#98 gque24

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Posted June 21, 2013 - 06:37 AM

Starbury was first to introduce Amare to the NBA not NAsh!

Scott P, you've got your analysis backwards.

 

The success D'Antoni found in Phoenix was due to Steve Nash, not the other way around.  And even then he failed to learn the ability to manage the team to the Finals, when by all accounts they should've been there.

 

I wouldn't brand him as a "superstar killer", but I'd certainly brand him as a simply terrible NBA coach.


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#99 gque24

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Posted June 21, 2013 - 06:37 AM

why he is not the answer he too small

I really wish CP3 could just sacrifice his salary for 1 year and sign with us until we can max him next year.


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#100 LakersFanatic

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Posted June 21, 2013 - 07:19 AM

why he is not the answer he too small

huh? By getting CP3, you get Dwight. By getting them both, you almost certainly get rid of MDA. I would say that's quite the answer.






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