Jump to content




Photo

Lakers second half of the season comparison


  • Please log in to reply
46 replies to this topic

#21 L.A.K.E.R

L.A.K.E.R

    Gomu Gomu

  • 14,800 posts
  • Joined: Jul 24, 2008
  • Location:California
  • Name:Shamim
  • Fan Since:2000
  • Fav. Laker:Kobe Bryant

Posted May 17, 2013 - 09:08 PM

Thank you Kobe.



#22 Japago

Japago

    Sixth Man

  • 4,044 posts
  • Joined: Aug 02, 2010
  • Name:Pat
  • Fav. Laker:Kobe

Posted May 17, 2013 - 09:11 PM

This is like the millionth time somebody has brought up the end of the regular season run. If it didn't have it's own topic, it's been brought up a million times in other topics.

 

For a variety of reasons, I wasn't really impressed with the run. There was too much Kobe carrying the team against even bad teams. And, I never got the feeling that they were an elite team. They were 8th in offensive efficiency and tied for 18 in defensive efficiency for the entire season. The Lakers didn't make the playoffs until the final day, and had to capitalize on Utah going 3-13 for a stretch just to get back into the playoff hunt. People act like other teams didn't have injuries too. Dallas dealt with a lot of injuries too. If they weren't injured, maybe the Lakers don't make the playoffs.


Posted Image


#23 Majesty

Majesty

    Grats on making the Raiderettes cuzzo!!

  • 36,727 posts
  • Joined: Dec 11, 2011
  • Name:Jay
  • Fan Since:1987
  • Fav. Laker:Kobe present, Magic past

Posted May 17, 2013 - 09:17 PM

This is like the millionth time somebody has brought up the end of the regular season run. If it didn't have it's own topic, it's been brought up a million times in other topics.

 

For a variety of reasons, I wasn't really impressed with the run. There was too much Kobe carrying the team against even bad teams. And, I never got the feeling that they were an elite team. They were 8th in offensive efficiency and tied for 18 in defensive efficiency for the entire season. The Lakers didn't make the playoffs until the final day, and had to capitalize on Utah going 3-13 for a stretch just to get back into the playoff hunt. People act like other teams didn't have injuries too. Dallas dealt with a lot of injuries too. If they weren't injured, maybe the Lakers don't make the playoffs.



Two can play that game.  If Dallas isn't injured?

Alright.. how about if Dwight isn't injured and recovering from back injury, if Pau Gasol never got injured(twice), if Nash wasn't injured our second game of the season, if Blake wasn't injured in our 4th game of the season, if Hill never went down with injury, then maybe the Lakers aren't even in a position of fighting for the 7th seed and are safely in the playoffs way before the end of the season.


Edited by Majesty, May 17, 2013 - 09:18 PM.

Is Wayne Brady gonna have to Djokovic? - Robert Flores 


#24 Japago

Japago

    Sixth Man

  • 4,044 posts
  • Joined: Aug 02, 2010
  • Name:Pat
  • Fav. Laker:Kobe

Posted May 17, 2013 - 09:23 PM



Two can play that game.  If Dallas isn't injured?

Alright.. how about if Dwight isn't injured and recovering from back injury, if Pau Gasol never got injured(twice), if Nash wasn't injured our second game of the season, if Blake wasn't injured in our 4th game of the season, if Hill never went down with injury, then maybe the Lakers aren't even in a position of fighting for the 7th seed and are safely in the playoffs way before the end of the season.

 

The point I'm making is that injuries are a factor with other teams. So, you can't look at it in a vacuum and say the Lakers would be this good if they didn't have injuries because many teams dealt with them too.

 

Yes, they would be better if they were healthier. But, this team isn't suddenly going to be a championship contender just because they're healthy. I wasn't impressed with how the played when they were healthy. They were 10-9 against playoff teams in that stretch. Meh.

 

Truth be told, you almost have to expect injuries with the make up of this team and how the team plays anyway.


Edited by Japago, May 17, 2013 - 09:30 PM.

Posted Image


#25 BasketballIQ

BasketballIQ

    All-Star

  • 6,855 posts
  • Joined: Dec 29, 2012
  • Name:2 Jordans and 2 Steves
  • Fav. Laker:24

Posted May 17, 2013 - 09:37 PM

We were the pre season favorites in the West for a reason. In basketball talent wins. But Dwight was not himself. Pau was not himself. nash was not himself and just at the end KObe got hurt.

 

 

Plus we changed coaches and philosophies from Princeton to uptempo, to High low.

 

 

All while shuffling line-ups due to injuries.

 

We were injured in the 28-12 run, with key injuries to Nash and Jamison. Clark hit a wall during that time, and Dwight was fatigued for a while.

 

 

Impressed?

 

It's not about that. The only TRULy impressive team is Miami, and honestly, they aren't as impressive as expectations would have you to believe.

 

i was entertained and glad my Lakers made the push. Thats what t's about.

 

 

YWe won 2 with ourKobe/Pau era, and you know how many very good teams haven't won ONE in their entire existence.

 

 

PERSPECTIVE is key.



#26 Majesty

Majesty

    Grats on making the Raiderettes cuzzo!!

  • 36,727 posts
  • Joined: Dec 11, 2011
  • Name:Jay
  • Fan Since:1987
  • Fav. Laker:Kobe present, Magic past

Posted May 17, 2013 - 09:37 PM

The point I'm making is that injuries are a factor with other teams. So, you can't look at it in a vacuum and say the Lakers would be this good if they didn't have injuries because many teams dealt with them too.

 

Yes, they would be better if they were healthier. But, this team isn't suddenly going to be a championship contender just because they're healthy. I wasn't impressed with how the played when they were healthy. They were 10-9 against playoff teams in that stretch. Meh.

 

Truth be told, you almost have to expect injuries with the make up of this team and how the team plays anyway.


yeah but there's some things teams just CAN'T prepare for.


People cite the Chicago Bulls all the time, but the Chicago Bulls came into this season knowing they wouldn't have Derrick Rose, and were able to make off-season moves in preparation for it, hence their successes.  They had an entire playoff run to scout what to do, and they had an entire off-season to prepare the team, and bring in players that would help their team in Rose's absense.  So that's a completely different situation.

Every other team that has dealt with injuries over the course of the season or suddenly, don't have time to adjust.

Like I said, look at how it changes the dynamic of the Nuggets, of the warriors, of the thunder, of new york  when they lost JR for a game, not injury but they haven't regained it.


It's easy to sit here and say "You gotta prepare for injuries its a part of the game"

You CANNOT prepare for

Nash
Blake
Gasol
Dwight
Hill
Kobe
Metta
Meeks
 
All going down over the course of the season.

Heck OKC couldn't deal with losing one piece and people acknowledge their deepness.   But they didn't have a pointguard suitable to replace Westbrook.

Now you can say "well who COULD replace Westbrook?"

That's the point, you can't prepare for it on a dime like that.

IF Westbrook was hurt last season in the playoffs, you can bet your bottom dollar if they knew they were entering the season without Westbrook, for one they'd have kept Harden, and they'd have made many other moves that would have helped the team in case of Westbrook's absense.

So in the same breath asking the Lakers to do it on the stop of a dime when they lose so many players is very unfair don't you think?


Is Wayne Brady gonna have to Djokovic? - Robert Flores 


#27 Japago

Japago

    Sixth Man

  • 4,044 posts
  • Joined: Aug 02, 2010
  • Name:Pat
  • Fav. Laker:Kobe

Posted May 17, 2013 - 10:33 PM

Age gets hurt. The roster was flawed from the very beginning. When you combine that with the fact that they play heavy minutes and play in a fast paced system, you had to expect injuries to a certain extent. Maybe not to the extent that it did happen, but still.

 

The Lakers still wouldn't be an elite team with less injuries, which is the best you can hope for with this team. At no point did I ever think that the Lakers played at a championship level in any stretch of games, even when everybody was healthy.


Posted Image


#28 Majesty

Majesty

    Grats on making the Raiderettes cuzzo!!

  • 36,727 posts
  • Joined: Dec 11, 2011
  • Name:Jay
  • Fan Since:1987
  • Fav. Laker:Kobe present, Magic past

Posted May 17, 2013 - 10:40 PM

Age gets hurt. The roster was flawed from the very beginning. When you combine that with the fact that they play heavy minutes and play in a fast paced system, you had to expect injuries to a certain extent. Maybe not to the extent that it did happen, but still.

 

The Lakers still wouldn't be an elite team with less injuries, which is the best you can hope for with this team. At no point did I ever think that the Lakers played at a championship level in any stretch of games, even when everybody was healthy.


Our system wasn't fast paced.

Nash got hurt during the Princeton, Dwight got hurt when we were playing at a slower pace, Blake got hurt under Bickerstaff, Hill got hurt driving to the basket on a fluke injury.

And all other subsequent injuries that followed were under a slower offensive system.

We didn't play a fast based system.  Maybe from the beginning till the middle of January.   But no one got injured during that stretch.

Steve Nash was one of the most durable players.
And we were prepared for an injury to him, we had Steve Blake to back him up.

Who would have forseen Blake going down one game after nash got hurt?

Like I said, some things you can't prepare for.

When Hill went down we had Jamison and Clark, and Clark did great in his role until he fatigued and had to deal with a dead knee.  Jamison was inconsistent all year.  But you can't say we didn't have pieces "in case"

Meeks was inconsistent as well, and Metta started great, but fatigued down the stretch, which is understandable given the heavy minutes he did play during other players injuries and injured his knee and tried to come back at the end of the season.

You can't prepare for everything.

When the players AND their backups get injured... not much you can do.

Nash is injured, Blake follows
Gasol is dealing with pain, Jordan Hill follows

Kobe goes down with injury, Meeks soon follows
Dwight goes down with injury, Gasol goes down right before Dwight returns

You can't prepare for that kind of stuff.  You just can't. 

And even if you tried you wouldn't lock down players to make the roster 3 positions deep at every position of players "worth" having or that would be a viable replacement considering our payroll.


You have to take that into account too.

We weren't gonna find replacements

for

Gasol, Dwight
Kobe, Nash
Meeks, Blake
Hill, Metta

two positions in every "just in case" with our payroll


Sometimes you gotta just throw in the gauntlet and acknowledge that things are out of your control, and outside of NBA 2k13 aren't easily fixed with foresight.   If there was any to begin with.

 


Edited by Majesty, May 17, 2013 - 10:42 PM.

Is Wayne Brady gonna have to Djokovic? - Robert Flores 


#29 Japago

Japago

    Sixth Man

  • 4,044 posts
  • Joined: Aug 02, 2010
  • Name:Pat
  • Fav. Laker:Kobe

Posted May 17, 2013 - 10:41 PM

And, good luck if you guys think the Lakers will be any healthier next season with them being a year older and now coming off of injuries.


Posted Image


#30 Majesty

Majesty

    Grats on making the Raiderettes cuzzo!!

  • 36,727 posts
  • Joined: Dec 11, 2011
  • Name:Jay
  • Fan Since:1987
  • Fav. Laker:Kobe present, Magic past

Posted May 17, 2013 - 10:45 PM

And, good luck if you guys think the Lakers will be any healthier next season with them being a year older and now coming off of injuries.


The Lakers are looking at younger wing defenders for specifically that reason.


Is Wayne Brady gonna have to Djokovic? - Robert Flores 


#31 Japago

Japago

    Sixth Man

  • 4,044 posts
  • Joined: Aug 02, 2010
  • Name:Pat
  • Fav. Laker:Kobe

Posted May 18, 2013 - 07:51 AM

Well, that's kind of the point I guess. The Lakers CAN'T do anything about all those injuries, which is another reason the Lakers can't compete next season. Maybe our current players are just too brittle. You can try to limit them by limiting minutes with more depth, but those were a lot of injuries.

 

Even after all of that, I still don't think the Lakers would be contenders if healthy anyway. So, you would have to improve this team's durability and talent, which is too much to ask given the Lakers' assets and ability to spend in the new CBA. And, the coaching issue obviously.


Edited by Japago, May 18, 2013 - 07:55 AM.

Posted Image


#32 BasketballIQ

BasketballIQ

    All-Star

  • 6,855 posts
  • Joined: Dec 29, 2012
  • Name:2 Jordans and 2 Steves
  • Fav. Laker:24

Posted May 18, 2013 - 10:24 AM

Lol.

#33 Windu

Windu

    Shatterpoint

  • 43,084 posts
  • Joined: Apr 24, 2009
  • Name:Will
  • Fan Since:1999
  • Fav. Laker:Kobe

Posted May 18, 2013 - 10:33 AM

When you're leading off about this team's issues, the first thing to make note of is MDA.

Pau Gasol is GONE


#34 BasketballIQ

BasketballIQ

    All-Star

  • 6,855 posts
  • Joined: Dec 29, 2012
  • Name:2 Jordans and 2 Steves
  • Fav. Laker:24

Posted May 18, 2013 - 12:09 PM

MDA is not the first problem.

Metta is.

Then it's the FIT of Dwight, Pau, and Metta.

Then it's back-up 3.

But this season it was injuries as number one.

#35 Majesty

Majesty

    Grats on making the Raiderettes cuzzo!!

  • 36,727 posts
  • Joined: Dec 11, 2011
  • Name:Jay
  • Fan Since:1987
  • Fav. Laker:Kobe present, Magic past

Posted May 18, 2013 - 02:03 PM

Well, that's kind of the point I guess. The Lakers CAN'T do anything about all those injuries, which is another reason the Lakers can't compete next season. Maybe our current players are just too brittle. You can try to limit them by limiting minutes with more depth, but those were a lot of injuries.

 

Even after all of that, I still don't think the Lakers would be contenders if healthy anyway. So, you would have to improve this team's durability and talent, which is too much to ask given the Lakers' assets and ability to spend in the new CBA. And, the coaching issue obviously.


And that is where the debate lays.

With a healthy Dwight, a healthy Pau, a healthy Nash, a healthy Kobe a healthy Hill a healthy Metta a healthy Blake, I think we're contenders.   We still need to make some changes this off-season.  But I think if everyone is healthy we're not a first round exit team and probably would be the scariest 7th seed that had been in the playoffs.  Then again if everyone was healthy the entire season from the start we probably don't give up those one and two point losses or those 5 point losses in close games and then we aren't fighting for the 7th seed and we're probably the 6th or 5th seed.

So it can be argued if everyone is healthy.

But the fact is, we weren't unfortunately. 

The most important thing for us to do this off-season is to get better wing defenders which are available to make life easier defensively and to help out Dwight as well and give us less of a weakness when Pau is playing the center while Dwight sits.

I am not worried about perfecting our offense off of what we did to end the season and going into the next season with a more complete and refined version of what was working for us in the second half of the season.  

It's defensively where we need to work.

So getting wing defenders and depending on the defensive coordinator there could be help there. 

So we'll have to see.


Edited by Majesty, May 18, 2013 - 02:04 PM.

Is Wayne Brady gonna have to Djokovic? - Robert Flores 


#36 Windu

Windu

    Shatterpoint

  • 43,084 posts
  • Joined: Apr 24, 2009
  • Name:Will
  • Fan Since:1999
  • Fav. Laker:Kobe

Posted May 18, 2013 - 03:29 PM

MDA is not the first problem.

Metta is.

Then it's the FIT of Dwight, Pau, and Metta.

Then it's back-up 3.

But this season it was injuries as number one.


He's the HEAD coach. It does not matter if the team is 110% healthy because he does not have the capabilites to coach championship basketball.

Pau has been a problem for years and I do not blame MDA for that. However, this coach cannot "fit" ANYONE to win championships. It's been shown over the course of his coaching career (including his time here in LA) that he cannot do so and for people to think otherwise is dumbfounding.

Pau Gasol is GONE


#37 BasketballIQ

BasketballIQ

    All-Star

  • 6,855 posts
  • Joined: Dec 29, 2012
  • Name:2 Jordans and 2 Steves
  • Fav. Laker:24

Posted May 18, 2013 - 08:33 PM

Spolestra won. I think his basketball acumen isn't in D'Antoni's conversation.

That being said, I think you HAVE to give a coach a training camp. It's just about any person having an even playing ground.

#38 Windu

Windu

    Shatterpoint

  • 43,084 posts
  • Joined: Apr 24, 2009
  • Name:Will
  • Fan Since:1999
  • Fav. Laker:Kobe

Posted May 18, 2013 - 09:18 PM

It's possible that Spolestra has a better grasp on winning than does MDA. D'Antoni was a perennial loser long before Spolestra came along. Some franchises know how to evaluate young talent rather than reaching into the cesspool of failed coaches that the LA front office has done twice in a row.

Pau Gasol is GONE


#39 BasketballIQ

BasketballIQ

    All-Star

  • 6,855 posts
  • Joined: Dec 29, 2012
  • Name:2 Jordans and 2 Steves
  • Fav. Laker:24

Posted May 19, 2013 - 08:11 AM

Eric Spo is a video coordinator turned coach.

Winner? What was he before LeBron got there? Just a guy.

What about LeBrons first year? He was the guy who took all the blame.

LeBron is the reason the Heat are winners.

If Kobe was as young and durable , then we would likely still be playing.

MDA was down 3-1 to the GOAT, and what happened?

Phil had the best player on the floor.

Phil also got swept by Dallas.

Phil also lost to the Celtics.

Phil is far from perfect. So like I said, MDA at least deserves a shot with a legit training camp.

What was. MDA supposed to win with the rosters he has been given?

#40 Windu

Windu

    Shatterpoint

  • 43,084 posts
  • Joined: Apr 24, 2009
  • Name:Will
  • Fan Since:1999
  • Fav. Laker:Kobe

Posted May 19, 2013 - 08:30 AM

Spo's prior position is irrelevant. He's won.

So sick of tunnel vision people who can't grasp the concept of an organization paying MILLIONS to an individual to coach a professional ball club. Don't minimize what these people have accomplished at the highest level. If Mike D'Antoni could win, he would have done so by now considering his MANY failed attempts.

If you're going to foolishly fault a coach for winning with a roster then you damn sure better fault the coach who CAN'T win with a roster.

What did Lebron win in Cleveland? It takes a combined ability from the players and coaches to win it all and it's so obvious which part of the puzzle LA is missing.

Are you really gonna bring up Phil Jackson? For what? He's the best to ever do it so I'm not going to waste time comparing his many accomplishments to the empty coaching shell that is Mike D'Antoni. How in the hell could that loser be down 1-3 to that scrubby ass Laker team in the first place lulz.

The loser mentality ugh

Pau Gasol is GONE





0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users