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Jackson book: MJ over Kobe


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#1 UNLABORED FLAWLESS

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Posted May 17, 2013 - 07:59 AM

Give your objective critique of Kobe Vs Jordan 

 

"One of the biggest differences between the two stars from my perspective was Michael's superior skills as a leader," Jackson writes. "Though at times he could be hard on his teammates, Michael was masterful at controlling the emotional climate of the team with the power of his presence.  Kobe had a long way to go before he could make that claim. He talked a good game, but he'd yet to experience the cold truth of leadership in his bones, as Michael had in his bones."

 

"No question, Michael was a tougher, more intimidating defender," Jackson writes. "He could break through virtually any screen and shut down almost any player with his intense, laser-focused style of defense."

 

 "Jordan was also more naturally inclined to let the game come to him and not overplay his hand, whereas Kobe tends to force the action, especially when the game isn't going his way. When his shot is off, Kobe will pound away relentlessly until his luck turns. Michael, on the other hand, would shift his attention to defense or passing or setting screens to help the team win the game."

 

http://espn.go.com/n...obe-bryant-book

 

 

What are your thoughts i think most of this is pretty accurate 

 

Is Kobe in the same sentence as Michael Jordan ?



#2 HQLLYWQQD

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Posted May 17, 2013 - 08:03 AM

I have to agree with Phil..

I love Kobe.. Probably my favorite Laker of all time but MJ was the best basketball player I have ever seen.

Had he not taken a sabbatical to play baseball, I think the Bulls could have won 8 straight championships.

#3 UNLABORED FLAWLESS

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Posted May 17, 2013 - 08:11 AM

I have always said the problem with Kobe is his shot selection.... can he make those shots ....yes he can but is it the best shot no 

 

also we do have to take into account defenders during the 90s even though it was a more physical game they were a lot shorter at the wing position 

 

also the 2000's era had dozens of 50pt night threats day in and day out whereas the 90's there were a handful at the wing because the 90's was so center dominant 

 

 

its an absolute shame kobe has never shot 50 percent for his career with that level of skill.... Phils comments only high light why the lakers lost in 2004 and 2008.... good defense or not kobe kept on shooting 


Edited by UNLABORED FLAWLESS, May 17, 2013 - 08:13 AM.


#4 Hero

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Posted May 17, 2013 - 08:12 AM

As much as I love Kobe, Phil is correct on all counts. 


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#5 PhillyLaker24

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Posted May 17, 2013 - 08:40 AM

I dont think anyone here will disagree with what Phil is saying, but Kobe is the only player that belongs in the same sentence with MJ, and that alone is amazing.


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#6 Windu

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Posted May 17, 2013 - 08:57 AM

PJ is right

Pau Gasol is GONE


#7 True Lakers Fan

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Posted May 17, 2013 - 09:06 AM

PJ is right, nobody can ever be compare to MJ


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#8 LakersFanatic

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Posted May 17, 2013 - 09:26 AM

Kobe is Kobe and MJ is MJ. Both were better in certain situations. But I must agree that I would pick MJ in more scenarios than I would Kobe.



#9 reryo

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Posted May 17, 2013 - 10:07 AM

Let the Bulls have the GOAT, the Lakers have arguably the next 3-4 greatest players after him.



#10 HQLLYWQQD

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Posted May 17, 2013 - 10:19 AM

Let the Bulls have the GOAT, the Lakers have arguably the next 3-4 greatest players after him.



Exactly.

Our roster of HOF players is only comparable to the Celtics and IMO ours is better.

Baylor, Chamberlain, West, Magic, Shaq, Kareem, Kobe just to name a FEW. The NBA logo is of our player. That alone says enough.

#11 bfc1125roy

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Posted May 17, 2013 - 10:30 AM

PJ is right on all his points, but he's leaving out a few things. First of all it's far easier for Jordan to trust his teammates when you have the 95-96 Bulls roster versus some of the inconsistent players LA has had over the years. If you watch those Bulls teams in the playoffs you can see they had multiple threats and a way to win even when Jordan was shooting poorly. Other than Game 7 vs. Boston, that was rarely true for LA.

Defensively, it's also a luxury having Scottie Pippen on the wing being able to take the best player (not always, but sometimes) and on top of that have Pippen play the facilitator role in the triangle, while Jackson admitted Kobe had to be the facilitator and a primary scoring option from a young age, something Jordan never had to do. And of course we're still forgetting zone vs. man defense.

In the end, Jordan is still the better player for the reasons Phil mentioned, but the gap is not as big as those quotes make it seem.

Edited by bfc1125roy, May 17, 2013 - 10:32 AM.


#12 MAMBA24ILL

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Posted May 17, 2013 - 11:28 AM

LOL, Phil is milking people with who he feels is better. And I can't wait to buy my copy. 


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#13 KarlCalaguas12

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Posted May 17, 2013 - 11:33 AM

Phil Jackson is 1000% correct that Jordan is better than Bryant. To be honest, I kinda glad that Phil finally settled this debate. To me personally, this whole "Greatest of All Time" moniker is another way to create some uneccesary debates between two great players. I'm just glad to watch Kobe Bryant play basketball in my lifetime. Just like fans in the 90's are glad to watch Jordan play in their lifetime.



#14 LakersChamps243

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Posted May 17, 2013 - 11:36 AM

It will always be a never-ending debate. I still stand by my opinion that Kobe is better. Not greater, but better. No matter how you shake it, the era Kobe has played in was harder than the era MJ played in. There is no disputing that. If you do, your simply kidding yourself and holding onto the assumption that Jordan is better simply because he was the first "great" player you saw and no one can ever trump him in the future. There are good arguments for Kobe's side as well. John Wooden stated a few years back Kobe was the greatest player he's ever seen. I heard Wooden knows a few things about basketball. And leadership too. 


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#15 Tensai

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Posted May 17, 2013 - 12:20 PM

Kobe Bryant @kobebryant 17m

The comparisons are #apples2oranges Wonder what the perception would be if M played wit @shaq instead #differentroles #differentcareerpaths



#16 Tensai

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Posted May 17, 2013 - 12:31 PM

If only Kobe had the opportunities Michael had... It's easy to talk like this. Phil is such an hypocrite.



#17 epicwolf

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Posted May 17, 2013 - 12:32 PM

Love how the media is trying to make this a "Phil Jackson slamming Kobe again!"  and trying to create friction between them when in reality they don't have any right now.  Phil is just pointing out what a lot of people also agrees on.  

 

Micheal Jordan is one of a kind and as much as I hate MJ when I was a teenager watching him destroying my sucky lakers in the early to mid 90's, I respect his talent and I dont think anybody is better than Jordan "INCLUDING LEBRON".   I am a Jordan hater. Never bought any of his shoes, posters or anything that has air jordan on it.  I was a lakers fan in the 90's and I rather buy a Sedal Threat jersey before I buy a Jordan jersey.  But even I admit he is the greatest.  Kobe is very close though. I even think Kobe admits it too that he is not better than Jordan.  

 

but if Kobe wins two more championship,    hmmm


Edited by epicwolf, May 17, 2013 - 12:34 PM.

MDA is an offensive genius. I hope he sticks to his guns and keeps doing what he does best: Run and Gun. That's the only way to coach.


#18 Real Deal

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Posted May 17, 2013 - 12:47 PM

I've participated in too many of these threads since 2008, so I'm just going to simplify what I'd say any other time...

 

The gap between Jordan and Kobe's defensive play (Jordan being better) is slightly larger than the gap between their offensive play (which is a toss-up, to me), and combine that with personal achievements, you get the GOAT, who is Michael.

 

Against a zone for most of his career, and pitted against teams like the 2004 Pistons, 2008 Celtics, and all of those elite Spurs teams (defensively), I think Jordan's FG% would have dipped into the late 40's...a little higher than Kobe's because of the amount of times he was able to get to the rim + the lack of threes he attempted, but not into the 50's as often.  

 

The greatest defensive teams came after the Jordan era, and it's a fact that cannot be disputed...both by numbers, and simply using the eye test.  Logic also tells us that physical, individual defense is not as effective as a zone constructed to slow down a superstar, and most of us who DO play basketball know this.



#19 UNLABORED FLAWLESS

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Posted May 17, 2013 - 01:06 PM

I've participated in too many of these threads since 2008, so I'm just going to simplify what I'd say any other time...

 

The gap between Jordan and Kobe's defensive play (Jordan being better) is slightly larger than the gap between their offensive play (which is a toss-up, to me), and combine that with personal achievements, you get the GOAT, who is Michael.

 

Against a zone for most of his career, and pitted against teams like the 2004 Pistons, 2008 Celtics, and all of those elite Spurs teams (defensively), I think Jordan's FG% would have dipped into the late 40's...a little higher than Kobe's because of the amount of times he was able to get to the rim + the lack of threes he attempted, but not into the 50's as often.  

 

The greatest defensive teams came after the Jordan era, and it's a fact that cannot be disputed...both by numbers, and simply using the eye test.  Logic also tells us that physical, individual defense is not as effective as a zone constructed to slow down a superstar, and most of us who DO play basketball know this.

why does lebron and wade shoot over 50 percent..... its not like kobe never had the ability to do so....this will always be a knock on kobe bryant along with those two finals losses 



#20 epicwolf

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Posted May 17, 2013 - 01:18 PM

Comparing Lebron's high FG% to Kobe's FG % is just stupid in my opinion.  Lebron has higher field goal because most of his points comes from making layups and dunks.  Lebron is no where near a shot maker like Kobe and Jordan. Not even close.  So for the people who praise lebron for having a high FG % needs to stfu.    SHaq have a higher percentage than lebron in FG..  What does that make him? Does it mean Shaq is a great shooter? Oh wait, shaq only dunks and make 5 footers.  That is one of my pet peeves when people arguement about Lebron FG% is awesome when most of his shots is layups and dunks.   I rather people praise him for being an athlete and able to get pass people than using his FG % because Lebron's FG % is a mirage.   I wish people don't even mention FG% when it comes to lebron.   Just makes me sick.


Edited by epicwolf, May 17, 2013 - 01:19 PM.

MDA is an offensive genius. I hope he sticks to his guns and keeps doing what he does best: Run and Gun. That's the only way to coach.





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