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Andrew Wiggins chooses Kansas


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#41 last stand 2.0

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Posted June 21, 2013 - 06:33 PM

Durants ast have been going up through out his career and when he became the ball handler he avged 6 ast a game when westbrook was out. He is an avg rebounder averaging 8 rebounds a game for a wing player? Yea thats pretty average I guess rebound numbers close to lebron means lebron is an average rebounder too. You do realize that Durant is 24 right? The kid is a superstar and at such a young age has such a refined game. No post game? Just because he cant push people around down low doesnt mean he doesnt have a post game. If he puts his back to you and does a turnaround jumper you have no shot of blocking that and its a shot he is quite good with. Also he has length and when down low he uses this length to get pretty good looks at the basket.

You do know body type is gentic right? That proves nothing about his potential. And even though Parker has hype, he is known for having a great work ethic, and imo that in a young player that has the ability to become good now can become great. Like I said Kobe and MJ had to work on their game to get to the top of the food chain, and Parker's work ethic is being compared to them, thats pretty hefty praise, sure it is word of mouth, but isnt everything you hear about high school stars basically just that? Three years ago word of mouth had it Noel was the next LBJ and well at this point he looks like the next larry sanders. Also I like how you said parker is doughy but Wiggins is 6'8 with a listing of 200 pounds, thats a pretty small frame so of course he looks cut. Parker has listings from any where of 6'8-6'9 with his weight being put at 225-240 that is a much more NBA ready frame. Also you know these basketball players dont stop growing like us normally people they grow until their earlier 20's.

Thats my point you said it he is no where near the prospect of wiggins, neither was kobe or MJ coming out of high school and their two of the greatest to ever lace them up. You let the hype machine get control of you and you will draft Kwame Brown number one overall.

I can only speak on the different scouting reports I read and they all say his work ethic is that of the greats, and that is what allows for greats to be great. I dont think anyone questioned lebrons work ethic he has been going to different NBA legends for years in the offseason to improve his game and it shows. Yet no one is gonna compare his work ethic to kobe because its not at that level, the type of commitment he shown is equal to only a few that have ever played in sports history. So while people are commenting on Parker's work ethic it makes it seem he has the same drive that kobe does, and that goes a long way into making a player great.

Also you speak about athleticism as if you need it to be great. What about Larry legend? How about the NBA logo? The all time leading scorer, Kareem? Yea none of those guys were ever put in the same sentence as athletic, but they are some of the best to ever play. Linking athleticism to greatness, you must be watching too much ESPN when they talk about lebron. Vince carter was a monster with his athleticism what about his legacy? Then you have drose and westbrook who are all athletic freaks, and is anyone saying their gonna be all time greats by the time their done? Nope. Unless they prove their something more than just an athletic freaks they will never be thought of as great.

Hardwork beats talent when talent doesnt work hard.


First of all Durant is 24. He may become a 1st tier champion level guy. But he's not one right now. Useless argument

8 rebound a game at 6'9" congratulations?

6 apg a small sample size. Horrible argument. If he does it for a season come back to me. He's a below average passer.

Body type is genetic? False. Body type genetics only determine how hard or easy it is for someone to get fat, build muscle or lose weight

But anyone barring physical disabilities can be cut, muscular or fat depending on their work level

Kareem no athletic? Stop, have never seen a more false statement.

Accusing me of watching too much ESPN? Proving that your argument holds no weight

Magic
Kobe
Jordan
Rodman
Pippen
Hakeem
Ewing
Thomas
Lebron
Duncan
Robinson
Payton
Kidd
Kareem
Oscar Robinson
Shaq
Wilt
Russell
Malone
west
Baylor
dr. j

All great athletes in the league when they played. It's all about context.

But yes bird Wasn't an elite athlete. 1 player I'll give you a few more

Mchale
Stockton
Havlichek
Barry

Still proves that athleticism is important

Also I never said Parker wont be good. I said he wont be as good as wiggins.

Also your whole argument is pretty ridiculous regarding Parker. Your whole assumption is Parker works hard and wiggins doesn't.

If anyone was hyped it was Parker, listed as the next Lebron James by SI last year
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#42 BleedPurple&Gold

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Posted June 21, 2013 - 06:51 PM

Who is talking about Lebron? And Lebron doesnt only do it with athletic ability so don't know where you got that from. No Parker is not going to be on the level as Wiggins (everyone knows that) but dude is going to be a beast too. Just because he doesnt have the athletic ability and the body type like wiggins doesnt mean anything. Athleticism is not really that important if you know how to use your body which he does and know what you can and cant do and you're a smart player which he is def one, but he is lil athletic too so. Plus he is reshaping his body too.   There is prove that he has work ethic (just showed you) a lot of coaches says he does and reason why Mike K wanted him on the team and was so excited that he picked Duke.


Edited by BleedPurple&Gold, June 21, 2013 - 07:20 PM.

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#43 last stand 2.0

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Posted June 21, 2013 - 11:11 PM

Who is talking about Lebron? And Lebron doesnt only do it with athletic ability so don't know where you got that from. No Parker is not going to be on the level as Wiggins (everyone knows that) but dude is going to be a beast too. Just because he doesnt have the athletic ability and the body type like wiggins doesnt mean anything. Athleticism is not really that important if you know how to use your body which he does and know what you can and cant do and you're a smart player which he is def one, but he is lil athletic too so. Plus he is reshaping his body too. There is prove that he has work ethic (just showed you) a lot of coaches says he does and reason why Mike K wanted him on the team and was so excited that he picked Duke.


Wait you think Parker is good but not on the level of wiggins

Why are you arguing with me then? That's all I ever said
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#44 BleedPurple&Gold

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Posted June 22, 2013 - 12:30 AM

I think Wiggins is and will be the better prospect but a lot of people are not sleeping on Parker either. Both can be franchise type players tho.


Edited by BleedPurple&Gold, June 22, 2013 - 12:43 AM.

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#45 PhillyLaker24

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Posted June 22, 2013 - 09:25 AM

I think Wiggins is and will be the better prospect but a lot of people are not sleeping on Parker either. Both can be franchise type players tho.

 

This was basically my point. I never said parker was better than wiggins, but I was just alluding to the fact that he wanted to down play parker so much, that he is known to have a work ethic of a champion and that goes a long way especially during the crucial years of development in a player around college and when they first get in the league. Parker might not have the physical gifts of Wiggins, but that doesnt mean he cant become a stellar bball player in his own right.


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#46 PhillyLaker24

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Posted June 22, 2013 - 09:35 AM

First of all Durant is 24. He may become a 1st tier champion level guy. But he's not one right now. Useless argument

8 rebound a game at 6'9" congratulations?

6 apg a small sample size. Horrible argument. If he does it for a season come back to me. He's a below average passer.

Body type is genetic? False. Body type genetics only determine how hard or easy it is for someone to get fat, build muscle or lose weight

But anyone barring physical disabilities can be cut, muscular or fat depending on their work level

Kareem no athletic? Stop, have never seen a more false statement.

Accusing me of watching too much ESPN? Proving that your argument holds no weight

Magic
Kobe
Jordan
Rodman
Pippen
Hakeem
Ewing
Thomas
Lebron
Duncan
Robinson
Payton
Kidd
Kareem
Oscar Robinson
Shaq
Wilt
Russell
Malone
west
Baylor
dr. j

All great athletes in the league when they played. It's all about context.

But yes bird Wasn't an elite athlete. 1 player I'll give you a few more

Mchale
Stockton
Havlichek
Barry

Still proves that athleticism is important

Also I never said Parker wont be good. I said he wont be as good as wiggins.

Also your whole argument is pretty ridiculous regarding Parker. Your whole assumption is Parker works hard and wiggins doesn't.

If anyone was hyped it was Parker, listed as the next Lebron James by SI last year

 

Duncan athletic? Jerry west athletic? If you are saying in their own way then yea you can make a point that all nba players are athletic in a way, but when I hear someone use that word I think of lighting fast, explosiveness, and has a vert that is 35+. Suppose it is a subjective term. I suppose Kareem was athletic in his own way, but he played more gracefully then someone who relied on athletics, I mean he was very spry so I suppose that is athletic, but that isnt in the same sentence as what you watch lebron, rose, and westbrook do in games.

 

I think you got confused no where was I saying that parker was a better prospect, just that you shouldnt down play him so much because he isnt running past fools and dunking on them. Pointing out his work ethic and MJ and Kobe coming out of highschool that you dont need to look like the best player when you come out of high school because a lot more goes into make an athlete great than being a baller in HS.

 

So is wiggins now over hyped since he has been branded the next lebron this year? Of course all high school players are over hyped, they are playing in high school. Do you know the difference in talent they play against, you can go from a big dog in high school to a bench player in college in a heart beat. Same goes from being good in college to playing in the nba. Its way to early to say for sure how they will transition over because how many "cant miss" prospects have there ever been, and guess what they missed. Pointing out that Parker has something that has been the key to MJ and Kobe become two of the best ever is pretty imporant, compared to dunking on people in high school which about every D1 starter on a good college was doing and the majority of them dont even end up in the league.


Edited by PhillyLaker24, June 22, 2013 - 09:39 AM.

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#47 Real Deal

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Posted June 22, 2013 - 01:16 PM

Going away from the typical LeBron and Melo comparisons between the two...Wiggins can be a Kobe, and Parker can become a Pierce.

 

Now, I have named four superstars above...but two of those will be legendary players when they retire.

 

To me, that's the difference between the two prospects.  One has all the tools to become legendary, the other a franchise player and possible superstar.



#48 PhillyLaker24

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Posted June 22, 2013 - 02:31 PM

Going away from the typical LeBron and Melo comparisons between the two...Wiggins can be a Kobe, and Parker can become a Pierce.

 

Now, I have named four superstars above...but two of those will be legendary players when they retire.

 

To me, that's the difference between the two prospects.  One has all the tools to become legendary, the other a franchise player and possible superstar.

 

I can see why you have come to those conclusions and even agree with them to some point. Its basically just what you think will happen and how the players will develop. However, when a player has the skill of a top prospect and the work ethic to hone those skills and become much better than good is when you have a superstar in the making. Remember Sebastian telfair was suppose to be the truth when he was in high school? We see how that went. To crown wiggins a superstar right now is ridiculous in my mind, maybe I just hate hype machines. He needs to actually blossom into a much more complete player to do what some of you think he will do in the NBA, and Im sure he will grow, but parker will as well.

 

Wiggins might be the safer bet and probably will have the better college year due to his natural athletic ability, but Parker has a great ceiling too. I feel that they both have a chance to be a force in the league one day, and I dont feel that Wiggins will dwarf what Parker will do as Lebron has done to Melo. It will be more like Durant and Bron, one might be better by a consensus vote but on any given night one can out play the other.


Edited by PhillyLaker24, June 22, 2013 - 02:32 PM.

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#49 last stand 2.0

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Posted June 22, 2013 - 04:05 PM

Going away from the typical LeBron and Melo comparisons between the two...Wiggins can be a Kobe, and Parker can become a Pierce.

Now, I have named four superstars above...but two of those will be legendary players when they retire.

To me, that's the difference between the two prospects. One has all the tools to become legendary, the other a franchise player and possible superstar.


Completely agree. Wiggins is special. If he works he can be one of the greatest to ever play. That athleticism can change the game
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#50 Majesty

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Posted June 23, 2013 - 12:43 AM

Going away from the typical LeBron and Melo comparisons between the two...Wiggins can be a Kobe, and Parker can become a Pierce.

 

Now, I have named four superstars above...but two of those will be legendary players when they retire.

 

To me, that's the difference between the two prospects.  One has all the tools to become legendary, the other a franchise player and possible superstar.


I would agree, however I do think Parker will spend more time on completing up his game and defense.  So Pierce is a good place to start with though, I just think he'll be closer to a guy that will have a more complete game before Wiggins begins to develop one(because of his athleticism) so early on he may lead his team farther along while Wiggins still is ironing out the facets of his game to work on. 

His athleticism and explosiveness and natural reaction make him a force to be reckoned with and if him and Parker both work as hard as the other then Wiggins definitely would be the one that's assumed to go farther. 

I like the Pierce comparison over the Melo one actually.

Because I always had a feeling if Carmelo ever had worked on his defense, his post game, and his passing.  He could achieve a LOT more to go along with his natural scoring ability.

Parker always struck me as the guy that WOULD work on those things that Carmelo has yet to.   So the Pierce one strikes me as a bit closer to home in some ways more than others.  good one.

Although I think both can be legendary :)

It's just that one could be remembered in the same vein as Bird, or a Magic. 

The other could be remembered in the same vein as Jordan

And hard work will be the factor in both cases if legendary status.

Hard work can be the difference between being remembered as a Jordan or as a Wilkins.


Edited by Majesty, June 23, 2013 - 12:45 AM.

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#51 TKainZero

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Posted June 23, 2013 - 03:10 AM

The hype surrounding these guys is getting intense...

I wonder if teams could draft a player, and let them go to college, would wiggins go number 1 this year? Of course right?

These guys are getting crazy hype
I cannot see both playing up to it in college...
And if one falls....

#52 PhillyLaker24

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Posted June 23, 2013 - 11:57 AM

The hype surrounding these guys is getting intense...

I wonder if teams could draft a player, and let them go to college, would wiggins go number 1 this year? Of course right?

These guys are getting crazy hype
I cannot see both playing up to it in college...
And if one falls....

 

This.

 

The comparisons already just on this topic alone range from melo, bron, and even legends like Bird, magic, and MJ.

 

This type of hype is good for no one, and really isnt deserved especially if all they did was play good against high school players. Let them win a NCAA chip first, ROY, and average great stats before these comparisons can go. I know people love comparisons and when you see a great talent your first instinct is to compare them to great players, but it is praise that really isnt deserved by any player until they show it on the big stage. 


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#53 last stand 2.0

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Posted June 23, 2013 - 06:24 PM

I think wiggins won't put up the numbers Parker does in college

Rose struggled in college because of no defensive 3 seconds allowing for much less penetration

So with his jumper I think Parker puts up more interesting stats

But come NBA when penetration is easier and the floor is more open then wiggins will begin to show his true potential
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#54 Majesty

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Posted June 24, 2013 - 02:27 AM



Wiggins is number 22.

Main thing I see, eventhough it's a scrimmage, is that he has a lot of really REALLY good to the basket and quick reflex moves, as well as a nice passing instinct though not a natural passer if that makes sense, but ultimately I think his jump shot is his weakness(sound familiar?) :)

For this reason I think that Jabari will have a better year in college because he seems the more complete player while Wiggins seems the more athletic.

If i were either one of them I'd stay in college more than one year.  

I'd stay at least two to work out some more fundamentals and become a more complete player.  

Honestly it could help both of their growth a lot.   This "one year of college" is basically like coming out of high school for some of these players, and I think a lot of them come out too young.

If Wiggins works on that "learning curve" through college he'll be more of a monster when he got to the NBA than if he went in with only one year of college ball under his belt.    Parker too.

But I contrast that with things like this


 



And from what I've seen two things are apparent.


One: Wiggins is DEFINITELY the more Athletic of the two.
Two: Jabari is the better shooter
Three: Jabari has a post game as well as quick post moves and a very reliable step back.
Four:  Wiggins has a nice first step quickness but his jumpshot isn't as reliable although he could virtually get the same shot.
Five: Both Wiggins and Parker are very good reactionary passers, but Parker seems to have practiced it more(opinion)


So to me, right now Jabari is the more complete player and probably will have a better college career if both go one year.

Wiggins main thing is his potential, his athleticism and the heights he can reach. In terms of potential and athleticism it's not close by any means.  And in terms of who will become the better player, if we're going on potential and they both worked as hard you'd say Wiggins most likely.   But if you were to ask me which one seems more "college prepared" I'd go with Jabari by a longshot. 

Now what happens 3-4 years into the league I can't predict.   But from what I've currently seen, Jabari seems the more ready one for the college game, and his consistent jump shot will carry him far.

It's gonna be harder on Wiggins who does great at creating a shot off a drive to the basket AND creating a shot for a jumper, it's just that the jumper isn't gonna be as consistent as Jabari's. 
 

For that reason, Wiggins will show out and have some big games and get a lot of Sportscenter highlights and be very touted.   But I think Jabari dominates this first year of college more than he will.

If BOTH stayed a second year I couldn't predict it.     But as far as first years go, I predict Jabari will be the better college player or at the very least be the one more ready out of the gate.

I wish BOTH would stay 2 years though in college :eh:
 


Edited by Majesty, June 24, 2013 - 02:59 AM.

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#55 Real Deal

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Posted June 24, 2013 - 07:33 AM

In Bill Self's system, Wiggins may not be able to take over the game as much as he wants to...so that could be something that holds him back a little.  He has NBA game and athleticism, though, so once he's engaged, he's going to hurt opponents.

 

But again, like I stated earlier, there have been a few NBA GM's that stated they'd give him a max contract TODAY.  Not just draft him #1, but a max deal.  That's a bit ridiculous, to me, but they see it, too.

 

I mean...LeBron and Duncan fit that mold.  Kobe seemed very selfish in high school, so I don't think I would have stated that for him (and I would've been wrong, lol).  Wasn't 100% sure about Durant, although you got the feeling he was superstar bound by the way he was carrying his Texas team.  Wiggins...I don't know.  I'd draft him #1 over everyone, this year AND next...not sure about $16-20 million, though.



#56 Real Deal

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Posted June 24, 2013 - 07:38 AM

Also, I never believed Sebastian Telfair would do much of anything.  I was never a fan of Stephon Marbury, and that's what turned me away from him instantly.  Of course, I know we're talking hype, but they put him on a pedestal because he was coming out of Brooklyn AND he was Marbury's cousin (how funny).


Plus, 12 teams didn't believe in the hype, either.  With Kobe, I think he slipped so far because he just wanted to play for the Lakers, and he limited workouts.  Otherwise, he would have went sooner, and all hype was around Allen Iverson that year.



#57 Majesty

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Posted June 24, 2013 - 03:15 PM

Also, I never believed Sebastian Telfair would do much of anything.  I was never a fan of Stephon Marbury, and that's what turned me away from him instantly.  Of course, I know we're talking hype, but they put him on a pedestal because he was coming out of Brooklyn AND he was Marbury's cousin (how funny).


Plus, 12 teams didn't believe in the hype, either.  With Kobe, I think he slipped so far because he just wanted to play for the Lakers, and he limited workouts.  Otherwise, he would have went sooner, and all hype was around Allen Iverson that year.



Seriously I could not turn on a TV and NOT hear about that kid.  He got his own movie too if I remember correctly, he was supposed to be the "next" didn't go very far unfortunately.

And you're correct about Bill Self's system.

But one thing Bill Self can do with Wiggins is keep him engaged so that he doesn't become disengaged because the game comes easy to him he has tendency to get complacent and needs to stay competitive.   

To me that's his biggest problem.  That he is so good at times on the court he'll become a little complacent cause it was easy for him to dominate in high school, that CANNOT happen if he's going to make it at the next level or at worst he'll turn into a Lamar Odom type.  All potential, but not consistent and needs to be 'engaged' more.   According to scouting reports that was his only issue aside from his jump shot, that at times he'd get complacent cause the game came so easy for him. 

But I think Self WILL prevent that.  He said he told Wiggins this and when I read it, I instantly stopped worrying that Wiggins would "check out" of games. 

 

 

Self: "I told him the other night, he had not made a basket yet and the attention he has received is based on potential, it's not based on anything he has done."

 

He needs a coach that will say things like that to him in his ear to keep him engaged for one, but also keep him from getting complacent.  When you're that good, it happens.   Hence why I'd like him to stay in college another year, he needs that "stay engaged till the final bell" mentality no matter how easily the game comes to him imo. 

Though the best thing that could happen to Wiggins imo is suffering a very heartbreaking defeat at the college level.   I can almost guarantee if that happened, and he stayed in college another year and lead his team to the national championship that "complacency" will be a thing of the past.   It's also something Parker has on him currently, the ability to stay engaged and constantly feel like he has something to prove.   Parker is already there. Hence why I think Parker is more college ready. 

Wiggins WILL be motivated when he plays Parker though, when he gets up.. HE GETS UP for people

Despite his unassuming manner, Wiggins does not lack confidence. He was motivated to outplay Julius Randle during a highly anticipated showdown at an event in North Augusta, S.C., last July because it "solidified" his reputation as the nation's best high school player. And his high school coach Rob Fulford said Wiggins had been "very upset" that touted Jabari Parker was not at the same event because Wiggins was "tired of hearing about him," Fulford said.

 

http://www.usatoday....rrival/2447225/


So when he gets up for someone he can be unstoppable, he just needs to find a way to stay there and not save it for certain players, but for everyone and to stay engaged for 48 minutes. 

Cause if he has a lapse of complacency, he'll get burned in college and in the pros more than he could in high school.    So I hope he adjusts accordingly.


Edited by Majesty, June 24, 2013 - 03:20 PM.

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Posted June 25, 2013 - 12:54 PM

Andrew Wiggins’ Jersey Already On Sale At Kansas

 

You gettin' one RD?


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#59 Real Deal

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Posted June 25, 2013 - 11:48 PM

Nah, they are silk-screened.  I only buy authentic jerseys, and rarely do in the first place.

 

Wiggins would be one I'd buy, though.  Over time, I've kept three Kobe jerseys, a retro MJ (Chicago cursive), a LeBron HS jersey, and a Barkley Suns.  Got rid of all the others (ex. Vince Carter Raptors, Dominique Wilkins Hawks) when people stopped wearing them.  Kept the ones I have put up.



#60 The Big Fish

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Posted June 26, 2013 - 10:12 PM

Nah, they are silk-screened.  I only buy authentic jerseys, and rarely do in the first place.

 

Wiggins would be one I'd buy, though.  Over time, I've kept three Kobe jerseys, a retro MJ (Chicago cursive), a LeBron HS jersey, and a Barkley Suns.  Got rid of all the others (ex. Vince Carter Raptors, Dominique Wilkins Hawks) when people stopped wearing them.  Kept the ones I have put up.

I copped his jersey and got his rookie jersey lol. But anyway Wiggins seems like the real deal. Just wish he went to UNC. 


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