Jump to content




Photo

How "soft" is the modern era NBA?

soft aggressiveness physicality ref foul

  • Please log in to reply
37 replies to this topic

#21 LakeShow805

LakeShow805

    Superstar

  • 7,730 posts
  • Joined: Jun 13, 2011
  • Location:Cali
  • Name:Tyler
  • Fan Since:2000
  • Fav. Laker:The mamba

Posted May 13, 2013 - 11:09 AM

Lebron wants no part of 90's style trust me 

 

every time he would think about driving in the lane he would get cracked hard 

 

Kobe i think would play about the same in 90's style. Kobe although great 1on1 he struggles with players that Jordan would embarrass 

 

Bruce bowen 2003

Tashawn Prince 2004

Celtics team defense 2008

Those weren't single players locking him down. Those were whole teams, statistically some of the best in Nba history, defending him. 

Kobe would be just as successful in the 90s, might of even been more successful.



#22 GenkiSushi

GenkiSushi

    Rookie

  • 780 posts
  • Joined: Jun 14, 2010
  • Location:SoCal

Posted May 13, 2013 - 06:24 PM

As someone who had mentioned hand checks on a previous post. I believe this rule made the league softer. Defenders have limited options of stopping a bull rushing offensive player who can't be touched in the process. That's why superstars like durant and others can "muscle" their way in the paint. A sprinting athlete would always beat a laterally moving opponent every single time.

#23 LakeShow805

LakeShow805

    Superstar

  • 7,730 posts
  • Joined: Jun 13, 2011
  • Location:Cali
  • Name:Tyler
  • Fan Since:2000
  • Fav. Laker:The mamba

Posted May 13, 2013 - 06:40 PM

As someone who had mentioned hand checks on a previous post. I believe this rule made the league softer. Defenders have limited options of stopping a bull rushing offensive player who can't be touched in the process. That's why superstars like durant and others can "muscle" their way in the paint. A sprinting athlete would always beat a laterally moving opponent every single time.

lol with what muscles?



#24 UNLABORED FLAWLESS

UNLABORED FLAWLESS

    Rookie

  • 595 posts
  • Joined: Nov 29, 2008
  • Fan Since:1999
  • Fav. Laker:Kobe Bryant

Posted May 13, 2013 - 07:11 PM

Those weren't single players locking him down. Those were whole teams, statistically some of the best in Nba history, defending him. 

Kobe would be just as successful in the 90s, might of even been more successful.

So are you trying to say no player has locked down kobe or made it very tough for him. 

 

kobe does take a lot of bad shots and doesnt finish in the paint with the regularity that MJ did 



#25 LakeShow805

LakeShow805

    Superstar

  • 7,730 posts
  • Joined: Jun 13, 2011
  • Location:Cali
  • Name:Tyler
  • Fan Since:2000
  • Fav. Laker:The mamba

Posted May 13, 2013 - 07:21 PM

So are you trying to say no player has locked down kobe or made it very tough for him. 

 

kobe does take a lot of bad shots and doesnt finish in the paint with the regularity that MJ did 

Obviously there have been players that have locked him down for a game or two....but not consistently (that I know of).

\

That has nothing to do with what we are talking about lol



#26 androsays

androsays

    representing infinity with presidencies

  • 4,851 posts
  • Joined: Dec 20, 2008
  • Location:city of angels
  • Name:andro
  • Fan Since:90s
  • Fav. Laker:kobe

Posted May 13, 2013 - 09:38 PM

are u guys kidding me with this LBJ can't play in the 90s BS.

 

the L has groomed this generation of players to play soft with all these new rules, but that doesn't change the fact that LBJ is a freak of [expletive]in nature. 

 

if LBJ was allowed to play one on one with the majority of the 90s SFs, Lebron would [expletive]in smoke mother [expletive]ers, hand checking or not.

 

don't let your guys hate for this dude cloud your judgement. 



2div

#27 Majesty

Majesty

    Grats on making the Raiderettes cuzzo!!

  • 40,063 posts
  • Joined: Dec 11, 2011
  • Name:Jay
  • Fan Since:1987
  • Fav. Laker:Kobe present, Magic past

Posted May 14, 2013 - 03:18 AM

are u guys kidding me with this LBJ can't play in the 90s BS.

 

the L has groomed this generation of players to play soft with all these new rules, but that doesn't change the fact that LBJ is a freak of [expletive]in nature. 

 

if LBJ was allowed to play one on one with the majority of the 90s SFs, Lebron would [expletive]in smoke mother [expletive]ers, hand checking or not.

 

don't let your guys hate for this dude cloud your judgement. 



70,s 80s or 90s.   LeBron has never faced a defender the caliber of a Michael Cooper, and never will.


But the reason this generation is the way it is, is BECAUSE of zone defense.

Now the zone defense era makes it easier to stop stars, but in my opinion  and my dad's as well its implementation is also the reason why guys rarely come into the league as one on one defenders, because they don't have to be.

A lot of basics of the one on one defensive game have been lost because of their means of simplifying the game in some aspects.

So in a way it was easier back in the days of iso players when zone was illegal to score than it is with the zone played on them.   But there aren't as many one on one great defenders nowadays and those that are, are few and far between or seen as special because of it.    Because of zone, they aren't taught to master the one on one things like how to ensure someone NEVER beats you baseline with one step, how to stay in front of someone beating any move they make with two steps, knowing how to focus on the chest, making them give up their position, knowing how to play angles and when to LET them beat you, understanding how to play in their chest and knowing how much ground to give, how to force their momentum to change and timing it so it makes them drag their foot and cause a traveling violation, and my biggest pet peeve players don't do.. knowing how to watch the ball AND the guy you're defending, 90% of the time it seems like they only know how to watch one and it's frustrating as all heck!!  ALL the aspects of the game they aren't taught to master, and a very few players in todays game use.   It actually makes me sad, because I was raised on that kind of teaching, and now I see less and less players use it.

That's because it's more about a team shutting down a star over an individual player shutting down a star.

But that era produced a lot of GREAT one on one defenders because of the lack of zone allowance players had to learn how to stop players.    Why do you think Michael Jordan said the strategy to stop LeBron's game down to when he drives left he'll do this when he drives right he'll do this.  It was instilled in that era's basketball players to scout players on an individual level, that's why Michael was able to break down exactly HOW to stop him one on one so simply.    You don't have "minds" like that in the game now because of the simplicity of the game has eliminated the need for it, the closest is Kobe and once he retires there won't be anymore left.   it's a sad thought isn't it?
 
The one in particular I'd have loved to see matched up one on one with LeBron is Michael Cooper.   He is someone I think LeBron would have fits trying to score on, freak of nature or not. 


Edited by Majesty, May 14, 2013 - 03:26 AM.

Is Wayne Brady gonna have to Djokovic? - Robert Flores


#28 androsays

androsays

    representing infinity with presidencies

  • 4,851 posts
  • Joined: Dec 20, 2008
  • Location:city of angels
  • Name:andro
  • Fan Since:90s
  • Fav. Laker:kobe

Posted May 14, 2013 - 06:49 AM



70,s 80s or 90s.   LeBron has never faced a defender the caliber of a Michael Cooper, and never will.


But the reason this generation is the way it is, is BECAUSE of zone defense.

Now the zone defense era makes it easier to stop stars, but in my opinion  and my dad's as well its implementation is also the reason why guys rarely come into the league as one on one defenders, because they don't have to be.

A lot of basics of the one on one defensive game have been lost because of their means of simplifying the game in some aspects.

So in a way it was easier back in the days of iso players when zone was illegal to score than it is with the zone played on them.   But there aren't as many one on one great defenders nowadays and those that are, are few and far between or seen as special because of it.    Because of zone, they aren't taught to master the one on one things like how to ensure someone NEVER beats you baseline with one step, how to stay in front of someone beating any move they make with two steps, knowing how to focus on the chest, making them give up their position, knowing how to play angles and when to LET them beat you, understanding how to play in their chest and knowing how much ground to give, how to force their momentum to change and timing it so it makes them drag their foot and cause a traveling violation, and my biggest pet peeve players don't do.. knowing how to watch the ball AND the guy you're defending, 90% of the time it seems like they only know how to watch one and it's frustrating as all heck!!  ALL the aspects of the game they aren't taught to master, and a very few players in todays game use.   It actually makes me sad, because I was raised on that kind of teaching, and now I see less and less players use it.

That's because it's more about a team shutting down a star over an individual player shutting down a star.

But that era produced a lot of GREAT one on one defenders because of the lack of zone allowance players had to learn how to stop players.    Why do you think Michael Jordan said the strategy to stop LeBron's game down to when he drives left he'll do this when he drives right he'll do this.  It was instilled in that era's basketball players to scout players on an individual level, that's why Michael was able to break down exactly HOW to stop him one on one so simply.    You don't have "minds" like that in the game now because of the simplicity of the game has eliminated the need for it, the closest is Kobe and once he retires there won't be anymore left.   it's a sad thought isn't it?
 
The one in particular I'd have loved to see matched up one on one with LeBron is Michael Cooper.   He is someone I think LeBron would have fits trying to score on, freak of nature or not. 

 

which is why i stated, "the majority of 90 SFs" 

 

anybody in any era would have trouble scoring on the likes of Michael Cooper, Scottie Pippen, and MJ.

 

but one other thing is that power can negate all defensive prowess, positioning, footwork, etc. [overwhelming] power is the reason the league changed the rules in the first place cuz nobody could front Shaq in the post. LBJ is very similar, but for perimeter players. this guy has the size and strength of Karl Malone playing like a guard. put anybody on this dude's chest/hip/whatever body part you want, and in a 2 to 3 dribble drive, he'll still find his way right next to the basket. this is what makes lebron so unique and frustrating for opposing coaches to match up against. anybody strong enough (PFs and Cs) is usually way too slow to guard him on the perimeter, and anybody fast enough (SGs and SFs) to guard him is usually too weak to regularly frustrate him.



2div

#29 LakeShow805

LakeShow805

    Superstar

  • 7,730 posts
  • Joined: Jun 13, 2011
  • Location:Cali
  • Name:Tyler
  • Fan Since:2000
  • Fav. Laker:The mamba

Posted May 14, 2013 - 06:52 AM

which is why i stated, "the majority of 90 SFs" 

 

anybody in any era would have trouble scoring on the likes of Michael Cooper, Scottie Pippen, and MJ.

 

but one other thing is that power can negate all defensive prowess, positioning, footwork, etc. [overwhelming] power is the reason the league changed the rules in the first place cuz nobody could front Shaq in the post. LBJ is very similar, but for perimeter players. this guy has the size and strength of Karl Malone playing like a guard. put anybody on this dude's chest/hip/whatever body part you want, and in a 2 to 3 dribble drive, he'll still find his way right next to the basket. this is what makes lebron so unique and frustrating for opposing coaches to match up against. anybody strong enough (PFs and Cs) is usually way too slow to guard him on the perimeter, and anybody fast enough (SGs and SFs) to guard him is usually too weak to regularly frustrate him.

LeBron would think twice about going into the paint. He would get hammered in there. He would need a more reliable jumper to be as effective.



#30 androsays

androsays

    representing infinity with presidencies

  • 4,851 posts
  • Joined: Dec 20, 2008
  • Location:city of angels
  • Name:andro
  • Fan Since:90s
  • Fav. Laker:kobe

Posted May 14, 2013 - 07:06 AM

as if his jumper isn't already reliable. what year are we in, 2007?



2div

#31 LakeShow805

LakeShow805

    Superstar

  • 7,730 posts
  • Joined: Jun 13, 2011
  • Location:Cali
  • Name:Tyler
  • Fan Since:2000
  • Fav. Laker:The mamba

Posted May 14, 2013 - 10:23 AM

as if his jumper isn't already reliable. what year are we in, 2007?

Not that reliable but im basing that off of the Heat-thunder series so stats could prove me wrong. Would like to see his fg% from the mid range area/ outside of paint.



#32 5thDroog

5thDroog

    Kapow!

  • 14,731 posts
  • Joined: Jun 22, 2009
  • Fav. Laker:24,32,33,44,13,22,16,34,5,2

Posted May 14, 2013 - 11:23 AM

Surround LeBron with jumpshooters, he's going to run through players in the 90's 'cept Pippen, Rodman, Pacers with the 2 Davis, New York with Ewing and Oakley in the paint.



#33 androsays

androsays

    representing infinity with presidencies

  • 4,851 posts
  • Joined: Dec 20, 2008
  • Location:city of angels
  • Name:andro
  • Fan Since:90s
  • Fav. Laker:kobe

Posted May 14, 2013 - 12:09 PM

he's shooting 40% from 3 this year



2div

#34 5thDroog

5thDroog

    Kapow!

  • 14,731 posts
  • Joined: Jun 22, 2009
  • Fav. Laker:24,32,33,44,13,22,16,34,5,2

Posted May 14, 2013 - 12:31 PM

he's shooting 40% from 3 this year

 

and he has a post up game now. 



#35 LakeShow805

LakeShow805

    Superstar

  • 7,730 posts
  • Joined: Jun 13, 2011
  • Location:Cali
  • Name:Tyler
  • Fan Since:2000
  • Fav. Laker:The mamba

Posted May 14, 2013 - 12:48 PM

he's shooting 40% from 3 this year

but his mid range shot looks pretty average



#36 androsays

androsays

    representing infinity with presidencies

  • 4,851 posts
  • Joined: Dec 20, 2008
  • Location:city of angels
  • Name:andro
  • Fan Since:90s
  • Fav. Laker:kobe

Posted May 14, 2013 - 12:56 PM

he's shooting 43% from the midrange, 40% from 3, and 70% in the paint this year.

 

(http://vorped.com/bb...n/2012-2013-REG) hit 2s/3s/paint

 

again, don't let your hate blind you. this guy is a beast. he's ironed out the majority of his flaws. any other criticisms ya'll got?

 

edit*

 

in comparison, kobe shot 42% from the midrange, 32% from the 3, and 59% in the paint for this year.


Edited by androsays, May 14, 2013 - 03:25 PM.


2div

#37 LakeShow805

LakeShow805

    Superstar

  • 7,730 posts
  • Joined: Jun 13, 2011
  • Location:Cali
  • Name:Tyler
  • Fan Since:2000
  • Fav. Laker:The mamba

Posted May 14, 2013 - 02:27 PM

he's shooting 43% from the midrange, 40% from 3, and 70% in the paint this year.

 

(http://vorped.com/bb...n/2012-2013-REG) hit 2s/3s/paint

 

again, don't let your hate blind you. this guy is a beast. he's ironed out the majority of his flaws. anything other criticisms ya'll got?

 

edit*

 

in comparison, kobe shot 42% from the midrange, 32% from the 3, and 59% in the paint for this year.

hmm guess I was wrong.....pretty good. 

 

I still don't think he could handle the physical play in the 90s as well as Kobe and Jordan


Edited by LakeShow805, May 14, 2013 - 02:27 PM.


#38 androsays

androsays

    representing infinity with presidencies

  • 4,851 posts
  • Joined: Dec 20, 2008
  • Location:city of angels
  • Name:andro
  • Fan Since:90s
  • Fav. Laker:kobe

Posted May 14, 2013 - 03:25 PM

to each his own i guess



2div





Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: soft, aggressiveness, physicality, ref, foul

0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users