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If D12 Re-Signs

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#61 ALL CAPS

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Posted May 06, 2013 - 06:42 PM

you just described Lebron^

 

lebron isnt automatic from 3



#62 MAMBA24ILL

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Posted May 07, 2013 - 11:15 AM

That's why we should've kept Ammo!


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#63 nikolatesla

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Posted May 07, 2013 - 12:31 PM

That's why we should've kept Ammo!


hahaha seriously wheres that guy? I loved his game when he was in college, still want him to shine in the nba.

#64 LakersGAFan

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Posted May 07, 2013 - 01:25 PM

lebron isnt automatic from 3

Bron shot .406 and finished 15th in 3 pt shooting among players who shot 250+ three point shots this season.

Pretty auto if ya ask me, especially since D's guard him as the #1 option as they do with KB24.


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#65 iDreamShake

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Posted May 07, 2013 - 11:26 PM

sorry @majesty for being so "my way or the highway" about webster vs. foye! my bad!

like i said in a different thread; the vids you showed me convinced me that Webster is a good player - he's just not in my top 5 choices - and like i said ; its because i value players the most who live by creating their own shots. also, i really think thats what our team needs. i think to much of the responsiblity to create offense is on kobe.

ill say this; our team would be much better off with Webster than Korver.

 

i think our team is one piece away if we replace mwp with a player who can shoot and create his own shot. - luckily,theres a BUNCH of Free Agents in our price range who can do this.

replacing the slowest SF in the league will help our Defense for sure. at this stage of his career;MWP is only good on D as a PF.

(also; it doesnt matter what wing position we add to the starting lineup - it doesnt have to be a 3. Nash cant guard PGs anymore; so we could bring in a PG/SG instead of replacing mwp with a SF. also kobe might be a step slower for the majority of the year and be a SF; even if hes not he can play SF.)

 

heres another big reason why another wing who can create his own shot is the only piece we're missing - this wing will be able to play in both units. both units need another wing who can create, but especially the 2nd unit. relying on Blake to do all of the creating on the wing for a unit ,was the worst decision Mitch Kupcheck has ever made. BLAKE!? ;  even kobe needs another player to take the creating load off of him!

this player can help kobe's offensive load for 4 mins a quarter; and he can help lead the 2nd unit for 4 mins a quarter. a player like Korver wouldnt help how stagnant the 2nd unit is - no one can penetrate . and a player like korver wouldnt help the fact that the first unit needs more than just one player who can penetrate(kobe).

 

all of these players are the one piece that we're missing -

PGs -will bynum, nate rob, R.Beaubois, Augustin, Udrih, Patty Mills, Brian Roberts, Mo Williams, Mike James, Aaron Brooks, Calderon, Foye, N.Young.

 

(mo williams and Calderon both made alot of money last year; and throughout their careers; so they may be willing to take 3 mil)

 

in reality; we're not exactly only one peice way tho...

1) 100% dwight

2)kobe

3) *** replace mwp with player who can create his own shot (and of course he has to be able to shoot; like all the players above)


Kobe and Randle led Lakers lead the team to a 32-50 record. the Lakers select Myles Turner with the 5th pick.


#66 Majesty

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Posted May 08, 2013 - 04:23 AM

sorry @majesty for being so "my way or the highway" about webster vs. foye! my bad!
like i said in a different thread; the vids you showed me convinced me that Webster is a good player - he's just not in my top 5 choices - and like i said ; its because i value players the most who live by creating their own shots. also, i really think thats what our team needs. i think to much of the responsiblity to create offense is on kobe.
ill say this; our team would be much better off with Webster than Korver.

i think our team is one piece away if we replace mwp with a player who can shoot and create his own shot. - luckily,theres a BUNCH of Free Agents in our price range who can do this.
replacing the slowest SF in the league will help our Defense for sure. at this stage of his career;MWP is only good on D as a PF.
(also; it doesnt matter what wing position we add to the starting lineup - it doesnt have to be a 3. Nash cant guard PGs anymore; so we could bring in a PG/SG instead of replacing mwp with a SF. also kobe might be a step slower for the majority of the year and be a SF; even if hes not he can play SF.)

heres another big reason why another wing who can create his own shot is the only piece we're missing - this wing will be able to play in both units. both units need another wing who can create, but especially the 2nd unit. relying on Blake to do all of the creating on the wing for a unit ,was the worst decision Mitch Kupcheck has ever made. BLAKE!? ; even kobe needs another player to take the creating load off of him!
this player can help kobe's offensive load for 4 mins a quarter; and he can help lead the 2nd unit for 4 mins a quarter. a player like Korver wouldnt help how stagnant the 2nd unit is - no one can penetrate . and a player like korver wouldnt help the fact that the first unit needs more than just one player who can penetrate(kobe).

all of these players are the one piece that we're missing -
PGs -will bynum, nate rob, R.Beaubois, Augustin, Udrih, Patty Mills, Brian Roberts, Mo Williams, Mike James, Aaron Brooks, Calderon, Foye, N.Young.

(mo williams and Calderon both made alot of money last year; and throughout their careers; so they may be willing to take 3 mil)

in reality; we're not exactly only one peice way tho...
1) 100% dwight
2)kobe
3) *** replace mwp with player who can create his own shot (and of course he has to be able to shoot; like all the players above)


No its the misconception that Webster can't create his own shot.

He can, and he tries on defense(more that can be said about Calderon)

He can also play the 2 and the 3 and thus can play with both units and NOT be undersized while doing it. Capable on defense, not undersazed 5th best 3 point shooter in the league.

I think he fits all your criteria you just are unsure about his ability to create a shot, he can. He wouldn't need to if he's on the bench with Blake at the 1 and he won't have to if he's a 3 with Kobe at the 2, but he could if it was asked of him. But the beauty of it is Blake, Kobe and Nash could all find him at his strong points and areas to score so above all else all he'd need to be is consistent, and he is, very. So that's a very good thing.

Edited by Majesty, May 08, 2013 - 04:28 AM.

Is Wayne Brady gonna have to Djokovic? - Robert Flores 


#67 iDreamShake

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Posted May 08, 2013 - 04:44 AM

No its the misconception that Webster can't create his own shot.

He can, and he tries on defense(more that can be said about Calderon)

He can also play the 2 and the 3 and thus can play with both units and NOT be undersized while doing it. Capable on defense, not undersazed 5th best 3 point shooter in the league.

I think he fits all your criteria you just are unsure about his ability to create a shot, he can. He wouldn't need to if he's on the bench with Blake at the 1 and he won't have to if he's a 3 with Kobe at the 2, but he could if it was asked of him. But the beauty of it is Blake, Kobe and Nash could all find him at his strong points and areas to score so above all else all he'd need to be is consistent, and he is, very. So that's a very good thing.

 

woah. see thats a huge misconception right there. you dont depend on only one player to create offense off the dribble . when only one player can consistently create O off the dribble, the offense gets stagnant and the ball will have to be in that one players hands to get the D moving or get anything going towards the hoop!!

all 3 wing players are "needed" to be able to create offense off the dribble on every possession. whether thats because of the ball finding energy and a lane opens up ; or because the ball ends up in someone's hands at the end of the shot clock.

 

saying Webster wouldnt "need" to create O off the dribble is basically saying - the duty to get anything going from the perimeter will be on one player(kobe,blake?). you dont realize how much of a load that is!?!!! have you not seen how even kobe or durant needs help in that regard; and you want to put that responsiblity on Blake???

 

also, numberous teams go with a smaller backcourt. and its fine because most SGs dont post up. a smaller backcourt would help us because Nash cant guard fast PGs anymore.


Edited by iDreamShake, May 08, 2013 - 04:47 AM.

Kobe and Randle led Lakers lead the team to a 32-50 record. the Lakers select Myles Turner with the 5th pick.


#68 Majesty

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Posted May 08, 2013 - 05:11 AM

woah. see thats a huge misconception right there. you dont depend on only one player to create offense off the dribble . when only one player can consistently create O off the dribble, the offense gets stagnant and the ball will have to be in that one players hands to get the D moving or get anything going towards the hoop!!
all 3 wing players are "needed" to be able to create offense off the dribble on every possession. whether thats because of the ball finding energy and a lane opens up ; or because the ball ends up in someone's hands at the end of the shot clock.

saying Webster wouldnt "need" to create O off the dribble is basically saying - the duty to get anything going from the perimeter will be on one player(kobe,blake?). you dont realize how much of a load that is!?!!! have you not seen how even kobe or durant needs help in that regard; and you want to put that responsiblity on Blake???

also, numberous teams go with a smaller backcourt. and its fine because most SGs dont post up. a smaller backcourt would help us because Nash cant guard fast PGs anymore.



I think you have "create off the dribble" confused with "ability to initiate a play".

If Blake is the 1 with the bench unit, it's not going to be Webster's job to constantly create off the dribble because Blake is the point guard and it would be his job to find others and to find Webster for offense. Webster wouldn't be bringing the ball up court nor would he be the guy initiating plays, that's Blake's job.

And when Kobe is in the game, his job is to find people open away from the defense and initiate plays for himself or others if they are available, which he's done his whole career as a Lakers. He just finally got recognition for it cause teammates finally are hitting shots.

It will never be Websters job to initiate plays, at least not 90% of the time.

I think that's why you picked ao many point guards, you got play initiator and shot creator confused or you think they have to be one in the same. They aren't.

Webster CAN find a shot off the dribble, but if Steve Blake is out there he won't have to, why? Because it's Blake's job to initiate and start plays, and its up to Webster to finish them as he sees fit after Blake finds him, whether it be off the dribble or otherwise. That's how they'd play together and how they shoud. Cause if Webster had to be play initiator and scorer with Blake on the floor at the same time then Blake wouldn't be doing his job. Get what I'm saying now?

Is Wayne Brady gonna have to Djokovic? - Robert Flores 


#69 MrKnowItAll

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Posted May 08, 2013 - 09:42 AM


Don't give me a YouTube video that shows highlights for one game.


Exactly

#70 iDreamShake

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Posted May 08, 2013 - 06:34 PM

I think you have "create off the dribble" confused with "ability to initiate a play".

If Blake is the 1 with the bench unit, it's not going to be Webster's job to constantly create off the dribble because Blake is the point guard and it would be his job to find others and to find Webster for offense. Webster wouldn't be bringing the ball up court nor would he be the guy initiating plays, that's Blake's job.

And when Kobe is in the game, his job is to find people open away from the defense and initiate plays for himself or others if they are available, which he's done his whole career as a Lakers. He just finally got recognition for it cause teammates finally are hitting shots.

It will never be Websters job to initiate plays, at least not 90% of the time.

I think that's why you picked ao many point guards, you got play initiator and shot creator confused or you think they have to be one in the same. They aren't.

Webster CAN find a shot off the dribble, but if Steve Blake is out there he won't have to, why? Because it's Blake's job to initiate and start plays, and its up to Webster to finish them as he sees fit after Blake finds him, whether it be off the dribble or otherwise. That's how they'd play together and how they shoud. Cause if Webster had to be play initiator and scorer with Blake on the floor at the same time then Blake wouldn't be doing his job. Get what I'm saying now?

 

the nba is a drive and kick league - so its basically an ISO league.  the nba is not a "run plays" league ; plays arent even run half of the time to get guys open shots.

all of this meaning that - all of your wings need to be able to create offense off the dribble. the nba is a league where the ball finds energy,consecutive drive and kicks make the defense move the most; and the most energy can be generated. so, all of your wing players need to be able to consistently take their man off the dribble.

 

what plays do players initiate? - a wing player will come off a screen and spot up /or / the pick and roll. how often do these plays work to their full potential and get a wide open shot? not often. more often then not; the ball is passed from the "play initiator" to another wing to get some offense going(new "play initiator"lol) .and like i say - the offense gets going by penetrating and moving the defense (drive and kick league)

 

on any given possesion; at least 2 of your wings will have to be the "play initiator" - when the first fails to drive and make the D move; then the ball will be passed to the next wing to get this going. - THIS IS NBA OFFENSE.

how often did we see MWP have to be the "play initiator" and drive!?(alot)

(the play initiator is what i described; not what you are thinking of/making up)


Edited by iDreamShake, May 08, 2013 - 06:39 PM.

Kobe and Randle led Lakers lead the team to a 32-50 record. the Lakers select Myles Turner with the 5th pick.


#71 Majesty

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Posted May 08, 2013 - 07:45 PM

the nba is a drive and kick league - so its basically an ISO league.  the nba is not a "run plays" league ; plays arent even run half of the time to get guys open shots.

 

wooow...


Is Wayne Brady gonna have to Djokovic? - Robert Flores 


#72 iDreamShake

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Posted May 08, 2013 - 10:04 PM

i am right MAJESTY.

i explained the league perfectly.

and i quote


 

all of this meaning that - all of your wings need to be able to create offense off the dribble. the nba is a league where the ball finds energy,consecutive drive and kicks make the defense move the most; and the most energy can be generated. so, all of your wing players need to be able to consistently take their man off the dribble.

 

what plays do players initiate? - a wing player will come off a screen and spot up /or / the pick and roll. how often do these plays work to their full potential and get a wide open shot? not often. more often then not; the ball is passed from the "play initiator" to another wing to get some offense going(new "play initiator"lol) .and like i say - the offense gets going by penetrating and moving the defense (drive and kick league)

 

on any given possesion; at least 2 of your wings will have to be the "play initiator" - when the first fails to drive and make the D move; then the ball will be passed to the next wing to get this going. - THIS IS NBA OFFENSE.

how often did we see MWP have to be the "play initiator" and drive!?(alot)

(the play initiator is what i described; not what you are thinking of/making up)

 

i just perfectly explained NBA offense. the same "ball creates energy" offense that Dantoni speaks of and runs.

youve been exposed MAJESTY. you dont know basketball.


Edited by iDreamShake, May 08, 2013 - 10:05 PM.

Kobe and Randle led Lakers lead the team to a 32-50 record. the Lakers select Myles Turner with the 5th pick.


#73 Majesty

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Posted May 08, 2013 - 10:14 PM

i just perfectly explained NBA offense. the same "ball creates energy" offense that Dantoni speaks of and runs.

youve been exposed MAJESTY. you dont know basketball.



I could have just stopped at what I bolded and let the forum laugh at you, but I'll actually reply.
 

 

 

 

Right and that "ball creates energy" philosophy works out for him.


You just tried to compare the way you described basketball as the same way D'antoni speaks of and runs it and then tried to use it as an advantage in your argument and you somehow think that "I" don't know anything about basketball?

That's the funniest thing I've heard all day.
 

 

 

the nba is a drive and kick league - so its basically an ISO league.  the nba is not a "run plays" league ; plays arent even run half of the time to get guys open shots.

all of this meaning that - all of your wings need to be able to create offense off the dribble. the nba is a league where the ball finds energy,consecutive drive and kicks make the defense move the most; and the most energy can be generated. so, all of your wing players need to be able to consistently take their man off the dribble.

 

what plays do players initiate? - a wing player will come off a screen and spot up /or / the pick and roll. how often do these plays work to their full potential and get a wide open shot? not often. more often then not; the ball is passed from the "play initiator" to another wing to get some offense going(new "play initiator"lol) .and like i say - the offense gets going by penetrating and moving the defense (drive and kick league)

 

on any given possesion; at least 2 of your wings will have to be the "play initiator" - when the first fails to drive and make the D move; then the ball will be passed to the next wing to get this going. - THIS IS NBA OFFENSE.

how often did we see MWP have to be the "play initiator" and drive!?(alot)

(the play initiator is what i described; not what you are thinking of/making up)




Gregg-Popovich.jpg

 

You're wrong.

But the fact you tried to push that "D'antoni's way" of describing how basketball offense should run is the way you're going to describe it and think you're right already ended your argument.  

keep living with that "don't run plays, the ball finds energy" Philosophy and see how far it gets you.


Edited by Majesty, May 08, 2013 - 10:18 PM.

Is Wayne Brady gonna have to Djokovic? - Robert Flores 


#74 iDreamShake

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Posted May 08, 2013 - 10:19 PM


Right and that "ball creates energy" philosophy works out for him.


You just tried to compare the way you described basketball as the same way D'antoni speaks of and runs it and then tried to use it as an advantage in your argument and you somehow think that "I" don't know anything about basketball?

That's the funniest thing I've heard all day.
 

 

 




Gregg-Popovich.jpg

 

You're wrong.

But the fact you tried to push that "D'antoni's way" of describing how basketball offense should run is the way you're going to describe it and think you're right already ended your argument.  

keep living with that "don't run plays, the ball finds energy" Philosophy and see how far it gets you.

 

it dIdnt work because we didnt have enough players who can put the ball on the floor and create offense.....

so at the very least - its the offense we're going to be running with Dantoni ; so we have to get players to make it successful.

:bleh:


Edited by iDreamShake, May 08, 2013 - 10:20 PM.

Kobe and Randle led Lakers lead the team to a 32-50 record. the Lakers select Myles Turner with the 5th pick.


#75 Majesty

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Posted May 08, 2013 - 10:26 PM

it dIdnt work because we didnt have enough players who can put the ball on the floor and create offense.....

so at the very least - its the offense we're going to be running with Dantoni ; so we have to get players to make it successful.

:bleh:

 

 

 sigh.....

Unless you want to change our entire roster we aren't gonna be running D'antoni's style of offense as that would require major changes to our bench AND to our starting lineup(basically replacing everyone including Dwight) including replacing Nash as our point guard which isn't going to happen for the sake of running his offense no matter how badly you back it. 

if you're trying to decipher who you want for free agency because you expect us to run the Phoenix offense next year and you actually back your decisions on this philosophy since it's apparently you think it's the "right" way of running an offense too then you were already lost before you even came to this thread.


If you want a team to run the Phoenix offense and have the pieces to run it in free agency the LAKERS aren't the team you should be looking at to do that.

We aren't running in an yway shape or form the Phoenix offense so your free agency decisions based on the fact you think we should be is already incorrect.

Thus your idea of how we should use our free agents is incorrect.

Right along with why you think we should get those free agents.


you were incorrect from the very start if you thought we should be going for free agents that would enable us to run the Phoenix offense.

I feel bad for you if that was the case and am beginning to understand why you wanted all undersized guards around our perimeter now.


Edited by Majesty, May 08, 2013 - 10:29 PM.

Is Wayne Brady gonna have to Djokovic? - Robert Flores 


#76 iDreamShake

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Posted May 08, 2013 - 10:35 PM

major changes? we're only one peice away baby.

as long as this peice can consistently create his own shot; he can play 4-5 minutes of each quarter in both units.

 

and its quiet for that "undersized" argument because Nash cant guard 90% of the point guards in the league. also becuase most SGs dont post up.


Edited by iDreamShake, May 08, 2013 - 10:36 PM.

Kobe and Randle led Lakers lead the team to a 32-50 record. the Lakers select Myles Turner with the 5th pick.


#77 Majesty

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Posted May 08, 2013 - 10:37 PM

major changes? we're only one peice away baby.

as long as this peice can consistently create his own shot; he can play 4-5 minutes of each quarter in both units.

 

and its quiet for that "undersized" argument because Nash cant guard 90% of the point guards in the league. also becuase most SGs dont post up.


So you think the reason that we should have an undersized guard at the 2 is because they won't post up -_-


No. 

And if you think the Phoenix offense is the "right" mentality to have about this team as you're trying to describe to me you'll need a lot more than one piece.

Cause Nash can't run it anymore, Kobe isn't gonna run it, Dwight can't run it, Pau doesn't have the legs to run it.

The only people that can possibly run it are Morris, Goudelock, Meeks, Blake, Hill, and Clark

So unless you're intending on building the team around them instead of Kobe and Dwight, I suggest you rethink priorities.


Edited by Majesty, May 08, 2013 - 10:38 PM.

Is Wayne Brady gonna have to Djokovic? - Robert Flores 


#78 iDreamShake

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Posted May 08, 2013 - 10:43 PM

why else would it be bad to have an undersized SG?

 

most nba offenses are drive and kick.  to an open shot. or drive and kick to a drive and mid range J or layup.

 

and it doesnt matter what offense i want to run. its the offense that we will run when we dont post up a big or go highlow from Pau to Dwight.


Edited by iDreamShake, May 08, 2013 - 10:44 PM.

Kobe and Randle led Lakers lead the team to a 32-50 record. the Lakers select Myles Turner with the 5th pick.


#79 Majesty

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Posted May 08, 2013 - 10:48 PM

why else would it be bad to have an undersized SG?

 

most nba offenses are drive and kick.  to an open shot. or drive and kick to a drive and mid range J or layup.

 

and it doesnt matter what offense i want to run. its the offense that we will run when we dont post up a big or go highlow from Pau to Dwight.



IF you care about the offense WE WILL RUN

Then you don't have to worry about Webster needing to create his own shot 90% of the time with Blake as the backup point guard or with Kobe/Nash on the court at the same time ;) 


Is Wayne Brady gonna have to Djokovic? - Robert Flores 


#80 iDreamShake

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Posted May 08, 2013 - 11:01 PM

ya i trust blake to create offense being the lone guy who can create off the dribble - when kobe and durant have shown they need help (offense gets very stagnant and inefficient. and the only way to cure that is to have more guys who can create)

 

this convo has been done;we're circleing back now.


Kobe and Randle led Lakers lead the team to a 32-50 record. the Lakers select Myles Turner with the 5th pick.





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