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Phil Jackson Watch: Phil's end game is the Lakers (Pg. 7)


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#161 Japago

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Posted May 22, 2013 - 04:41 PM

As for Phil's hesitation, yes it did hurt him but was it fair? At the meeting with Jim & Mitch, Phil told them he needed a few days to let them know his decision and said he would have an answer by Monday at the latest.  For me, it would have been different had Monday come and Phil said he wanted a few more days.  Instead he gets a phone call at midnight saying he didn't get the job.  I'll still never understand why they could not wait a few more hours to hear his decision.

 

Which makes me think they really did pick D'Antoni over Phil.


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#162 Windu

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Posted May 22, 2013 - 04:50 PM

I said before that the front office trolled Phil. They never intended to hire him.

Dick measuring contest instead of trying to win championships.

Pau Gasol is GONE


#163 UKUGA

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Posted May 22, 2013 - 05:10 PM

Which makes me think they really did pick D'Antoni over Phil.


It's very clear that they did.

Perhaps if Phil had accepted the job on the spot, he would be coach, but you can't blame him for wanting to take some time to think on it.

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#164 Majesty

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Posted May 22, 2013 - 05:52 PM

It's very clear that they did.

Perhaps if Phil had accepted the job on the spot, he would be coach, but you can't blame him for wanting to take some time to think on it.



One problem I really did have with the front office was their impatience.

The story they tell about rushing to a few decisions because of Jerry's failing health and wanting to win fast before he passed away is really telling.

Yes Phil could have accepted it on the spot.  But they could have also waited for his answer and let Bernie coach us for a bit longer.  They could have also waited to fire Mike Brown too.  But they went with the fastest decision, and they wanted to have a coach that would utilize Nash in a way that would allow Kobe to play off ball.

In all honesty the front office wanted Chris Paul, they wanted a point guard that could push pace, score and get people involved.   They got as close as they could when they got Sessions last year and their initial plan aside from bringing in Dwight Howard was hoping that Sessions would remain.    Getting Steve Nash was pretty much their only other move because they felt Nash had more left in the tank and could run the team in a way that would allow Kobe to play off ball, that's another reason they were planning on going to the Princeton offense.

The problem is the front office had a plan on how they wanted the team used, and the coach had a different plan.   They brought Nash in to be (Chris Paul) and to run the team and allow Kobe to attack off ball and have an "easier" year.  But in training camp Mike Brown obviously realized Nash is better suited off ball for the team.   The front office didn't agree and they used our losses.  They believed the hype that near everyone was saying that all we had to do was play Nash in the pick and roll and that the Princeton offense was holding Nash back, that it sucked, that it wouldn't win etc.  

So when they went to Phil, he sold them the same idea they fired Brown for utilizing.   That Nash should play off ball and Kobe should be main facilitator.   They didn't agree with Brown and they didn't agree with Phil, that and given the Princeton difficulties, they didn't feel the team would pick up the triangle.  So they went with D'antoni, the coach with the "simpler" style, and the coach that would try to utilize Kobe off ball instead of Nash, and they rushed to that decision cause they thought Nash PnR would equal quick wins.

They were wrong.

 

Brown and Jackson were right.   Nash was NOT Chris Paul, and while he was the best point guard in the league that was available for the Lakers to get, the style required for maximum effectiveness at his age didn't fit the direction they wanted the team to go in.

This team wanted to get away from the "Kobe being main facilitator to everyone" style the moment they tried to get Chris Paul, that's why they got Chris Paul, and Sessions was considered a replacement.  That's the style that the front office wanted the Lakers to run with.  So they got Nash and thought it would be more of the same, it wasn't.  It's not his style anymore and it doesn't fit our team unless Chris Paul himself or Steve Nash of the mid 2000s is running it.   The worst part is, Nash stated this many times, but it was received as him being a team guy, that he was 'secretly' frustrated with not running pnr everytime down and that he was just being nice to Mike Brown. So they got the coach Nash is most familiar with, thinking it would make Nash happy as to how he REALLY wanted to play as if he could be most effective.   

First interview about Mike D'antoni, Nash said "I didn't think he was the perfect guy for the job." 

And right then and there the front office realized they goofed and that Nash meant what he said prior for the last 4 weeks.   But it was too late, and they'd been focused on the wrong player to adjust it to.

So do I blame D'antoni 200%? No I don't.  They brought him here to run a style that was based on Kobe being off ball while Nash ran things.  They fired Mike Brown for not doing that, they made a hasty decision on Phil because he'd have done the same thing.   He did what he was brought here for and the team was losing.  So he had to change it.  So no, I don't blame D'antoni 200%, I blame in part the FO for not believing Brown nor Phil when it was stated that Nash would be best off-ball.   

This was supposed to be Kobe's "easy" year, where he could wait in the reeds and attack off ball and not have to strain himself so much, the problem is, they got a Steve Nash that was about 2 years past being capable of relieving that much responsibility off of him.  Chris Paul, yes.  Steve Nash, 2 years too late.    Now, it's obvious that Nash should be used off ball, and its common knowledge how effective the triangle and/or the Princeton would have been with this team.  This is why Phil's name is constantly starting to come up again and should Dwight re-sign with us.  Unless D'antoni blows the socks off the league with whatever offense he's concocted after an off-season of work that maximizes everyone he'll be gone in the first week of the season.   If we are anything other than 5-1 after our first 6 games he's likely gone.   Why?  Because the FO understands WHO they should be building around now, and if the coach doesn't follow that formula for the offensive system then the coach will be gone. 

That is my prediction anyway.


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#165 evil Monkey

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Posted May 22, 2013 - 08:19 PM

Dwight is going to want a satisfactory answer on the future of this team and how much they value him eg. they need to fire D'Antoni and appease Dwight, the entire Laker roster, and obviously LakerNation.


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#166 Majesty

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Posted May 22, 2013 - 09:06 PM

Did anyone catch Phil Jackson on through the lens recently on TWC?

He was on TWC recently on the through the lens show... Talked about Kobe and MJ and how he feels gifted to have coached Kobe and how much of a spectacle it will be when Kobe passes MJ on the all time scoring list and how much of a joy it was to coach him.

He's showing up just a "little" too often to just be "visiting" ...imo


Edited by Majesty, May 22, 2013 - 09:07 PM.

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#167 fido

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Posted May 22, 2013 - 09:20 PM

Phil's been not so quietly campaigning for a job with the Lakers for quite a while now.

 

Just waiting on July 1 and the Lakers' decision on D'Antoni. Once Pringles is let go, dominoes will start to fall.



#168 lakerfan0307

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Posted May 22, 2013 - 09:23 PM

Phil's been not so quietly campaigning for a job with the Lakers for quite a while now.

 

Just waiting on July 1 and the Lakers' decision on D'Antoni. Once Pringles is let go, dominoes will start to fall.

You sound oftly confident. I hope it happens. What makes you so confident?



#169 fido

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Posted May 22, 2013 - 09:44 PM

Because I truly believe its going to come down to Dwight saying its D'Antoni or him.  Felt that vibe coming from Dwight mid-season.  And from what it seems, Pau and Kobe support that notion 100% (as well they should).



#170 Tensai

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Posted May 23, 2013 - 01:26 AM

I don't like that Phil is trying to manipulate his way into the FO or coaching position. If he didn't retire 2 years back, he would have continued with his job, correct? It was up to him. He saw Kobe was injured, Pau was mentally gone and Lakers had an aging squad that couldn't be rebuilt via FA. He chose the easy way instead of regrouping the team for championship. Just in next season we wanted to trade Pau for CP3, it failed but Mitch tried it. Mike Brown and D'Antoni had both unfortunate years. Both started their seasons without a training camp, Brown had to deal with Bynum's drama and post-lockout [expletive]tiness, D'Antoni had to deal with the most ridiculous year of all in terms of collective injuries. Phil would have been no different in either circumstances. He coached the team that got swept by Mavs. He couldn't deal with THAT, and other things and walked away. Now of course he'd want to come back. He will have the most dominant center after Shaq era at his disposal. And [expletive] loads of cap space next year. It is 1999 for him all over again. The opportunities are there, he just needs to 'teach' some triangle. Oh goodie.

 

I'd love to see this team succeed but I can't stomach this knowing that this is exactly his plan. And doing it with under the title of "promoting his book".

 

I'll ask this. How long do you think Phil will coach? 2 years? 5 years? 10 years? No. Answer is whenever he feels ready to jump the ship. He's a smart bastard that doesn't want to be part of losing seasons. Call it ego, ring collection or whatever. There is just no work ethic there. There is no loyalty. Mitch and Jerry Buss have seen that from far away. They won't do it all over again. It is gonna be same mess after 2 years and in a likely playoff struggle, will we call for the "Zen Master" again? No, I don't like that. I don't want that. This organization needs to move on one way or another. They chose to do it with Mike Brown and then D'Antoni but their views are conflicted. Pressure of winning puts great stress on FO. There is just no planning. You have to be patient and read the situation. Mike Brown was not at fault, and neither is D'Antoni. If you cannot identify these things, then you also don't have the correct mindset to do team related business. And if that means buh-bye to Dwight, so be it.

 

Fanbase is too emotional and passionate, rightly so since winning is in Lakers culture. However, you need to look at the full picture instead of bangwagoning.



#171 Majesty

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Posted May 23, 2013 - 01:50 AM

I don't like that Phil is trying to manipulate his way into the FO or coaching position. If he didn't retire 2 years back, he would have continued with his job, correct? It was up to him. He saw Kobe was injured, Pau was mentally gone and Lakers had an aging squad that couldn't be rebuilt via FA. He chose the easy way instead of regrouping the team for championship. Just in next season we wanted to trade Pau for CP3, it failed but Mitch tried it. Mike Brown and D'Antoni had both unfortunate years. Both started their seasons without a training camp, Brown had to deal with Bynum's drama and post-lockout [expletive]tiness, D'Antoni had to deal with the most ridiculous year of all in terms of collective injuries. Phil would have been no different in either circumstances. He coached the team that got swept by Mavs. He couldn't deal with THAT, and other things and walked away. Now of course he'd want to come back. He will have the most dominant center after Shaq era at his disposal. And [expletive] loads of cap space next year. It is 1999 for him all over again. The opportunities are there, he just needs to 'teach' some triangle. Oh goodie.

 

I'd love to see this team succeed but I can't stomach this knowing that this is exactly his plan. And doing it with under the title of "promoting his book".

 

I'll ask this. How long do you think Phil will coach? 2 years? 5 years? 10 years? No. Answer is whenever he feels ready to jump the ship. He's a smart bastard that doesn't want to be part of losing seasons. Call it ego, ring collection or whatever. There is just no work ethic there. There is no loyalty. Mitch and Jerry Buss have seen that from far away. They won't do it all over again. It is gonna be same mess after 2 years and in a likely playoff struggle, will we call for the "Zen Master" again? No, I don't like that. I don't want that. This organization needs to move on one way or another. They chose to do it with Mike Brown and then D'Antoni but their views are conflicted. Pressure of winning puts great stress on FO. There is just no planning. You have to be patient and read the situation. Mike Brown was not at fault, and neither is D'Antoni. If you cannot identify these things, then you also don't have the correct mindset to do team related business. And if that means buh-bye to Dwight, so be it.

 

Fanbase is too emotional and passionate, rightly so since winning is in Lakers culture. However, you need to look at the full picture instead of bangwagoning.



Ima let you finish but.... he coached our team when Smush Parker and Kwame Brown were our starting point guard and center....


Phil didn't bail on us when there was no end in site and we "lost" our center and he was part of the rebuilding project during the dark years. 

In fact HE came back the very season after we missed the playoffs and the future didn't look too promising.  

I may be critical of Phil at times but one thing I know he isn't is a coward, and it isn't just me saying that, evidence proves it.

IF he wanted to bide his time he wouldn't have had anything to do with us after missing the playoffs.   Nor trying to tackle "coaching" Kobe again.  But he did, he did when we were a team that through his coaching and Kobe's greatness were able to make the 8th and 7th seeds. 

These were dark years, he was coaching us to what appeared like a darkhorse season where we looked like we could do damage when Bynum started coming into his own, Bynum went down and our season looked bleak and then we got Pau Gasol.

But that doesn't take away the fact that Phil came back to coach us one year removed from feeling that Kobe was "uncoachable" he took that challenge again on a team that had just missed the playoffs when he didn't have to.  

The only reason he left after getting swept by Dallas was his health, sure, I feel like he lost the locker room(outside of Kobe) but his health was also declining, and because of the recent story about his cancer and what he revealed(and regretting it) it tells more to the story.

 

 

His health was the only thing that kept him from returning, but when Mitch and the Lakers offered him the job(before the thinking period and before they made a rushed decision) they made sure that Phil told them that "health wise" he could coach the team.  And Phil told them his health was good and he could but that he needed to think about it still.


Phil isn't being opportune because we look like a championship contender with our roster.   Phil came back when there was no end in sight and we'd just missed the playoffs and stayed with us through a rebuilding project which lead to 3 finals appearances.

Despite his age and despite his health, he has earned the right to say yes or no to a team that wants his services, if he wants to coach a contending team so be it, if he wants to coach a rebuilding team or lead their front office so be it.
 
If he wants to manipulate his way back on the Lakers after selling a book which is eerily similar to the last time then so be it.     If the front office doesn't want him, no manipulation would work.

But being that they "offered" him the job outright apparently first they obviously have interest.

Bringing him around the TWC place and having him on their Lakers channel shows talking about the Lakers and Kobe, obviously they don't mind having him involved with the organization.


So if they hire him, alright, if they don't, alright.  But Phil is far from a cowardly old man looking for one last hurrah.  When you have as many rings as he has you don't "need" a last hurrah.   9 times out of 10 the last hurrah needs you. 

And that's all I have to say about that.


Edited by Majesty, May 23, 2013 - 02:00 AM.

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#172 Tensai

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Posted May 23, 2013 - 01:56 AM

Oh yeah Smush and Kwame. What about Prime Kobe? We were only one Pau Gasol away from championship and you know the result.

 

 

Health is one way to look at it. But he still had Shaw on his side. He could have assumed a lesser role instead of pushing the franchise into another post-Phil debacle. I'm most thankful to Phil for his services for years, but his time has passed. He needs to move on just like we do. And taking jabs at Lakers organization and flirting with other teams to pressure Lakers FO does no good as far as that process goes. I know that he's more involved now after whole fiancee thing but this is doing more harm than good.

 

 

I really wish this Seattle thing happened.


Edited by Goku, May 23, 2013 - 02:08 AM.


#173 UKUGA

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Posted May 23, 2013 - 03:50 AM

Phil is on a book tour right now.  Not the best time for a switch.  Once that ends (I don't know the dates), expect some type of something to happen in his career. 


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#174 Windu

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Posted May 23, 2013 - 05:00 AM

PJ had a host of scrubs:

Smush Parker
Kwame Brown
Luke Walton
Sasha Vujacic
Jordan Farmar
Devean George
Chris Mihm
Brian Cook
Maurice Evans
Vladmir Radmanovic

Look at that [expletive] lol

Then the front office brings in the ultimate loser in Mike D'Antoni and turns this franchise into a laughing stock. What Phil Jackson did was go to a job interview and he was passed over for Mike D'Antoni. REALLY think about that last sentence...

Kobe Bryant
Dwight Howard
Steve Nash
Carmelo Anthony
Pau Gasol
Amare Stoudemire
Joe Johnson
Shawn Marion

How many championships you got Mike?

MDA is such garbage that he can't even finish seasons...he has to resign like the perennial loser that he is.

Don't understand some of these so-called fans.

Pau Gasol is GONE


#175 Tensai

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Posted May 23, 2013 - 08:51 AM

what does D'Antoni have to do with this discussion? We are talking about Phil.



#176 LakeShow805

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Posted May 23, 2013 - 08:56 AM

I don't like that Phil is trying to manipulate his way into the FO or coaching position. If he didn't retire 2 years back, he would have continued with his job, correct? It was up to him. He saw Kobe was injured, Pau was mentally gone and Lakers had an aging squad that couldn't be rebuilt via FA. He chose the easy way instead of regrouping the team for championship. Just in next season we wanted to trade Pau for CP3, it failed but Mitch tried it. Mike Brown and D'Antoni had both unfortunate years. Both started their seasons without a training camp, Brown had to deal with Bynum's drama and post-lockout [expletive]tiness, D'Antoni had to deal with the most ridiculous year of all in terms of collective injuries. Phil would have been no different in either circumstances. He coached the team that got swept by Mavs. He couldn't deal with THAT, and other things and walked away. Now of course he'd want to come back. He will have the most dominant center after Shaq era at his disposal. And [expletive] loads of cap space next year. It is 1999 for him all over again. The opportunities are there, he just needs to 'teach' some triangle. Oh goodie.

 

I'd love to see this team succeed but I can't stomach this knowing that this is exactly his plan. And doing it with under the title of "promoting his book".

 

I'll ask this. How long do you think Phil will coach? 2 years? 5 years? 10 years? No. Answer is whenever he feels ready to jump the ship. He's a smart bastard that doesn't want to be part of losing seasons. Call it ego, ring collection or whatever. There is just no work ethic there. There is no loyalty. Mitch and Jerry Buss have seen that from far away. They won't do it all over again. It is gonna be same mess after 2 years and in a likely playoff struggle, will we call for the "Zen Master" again? No, I don't like that. I don't want that. This organization needs to move on one way or another. They chose to do it with Mike Brown and then D'Antoni but their views are conflicted. Pressure of winning puts great stress on FO. There is just no planning. You have to be patient and read the situation. Mike Brown was not at fault, and neither is D'Antoni. If you cannot identify these things, then you also don't have the correct mindset to do team related business. And if that means buh-bye to Dwight, so be it.

 

Fanbase is too emotional and passionate, rightly so since winning is in Lakers culture. However, you need to look at the full picture instead of bangwagoning.

The only reason Phil Jackson left because he wanted to take time off and he thought Shaw was going to take over.



#177 LakeShow805

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Posted May 23, 2013 - 08:57 AM

what does D'Antoni have to do with this discussion? We are talking about Phil.

11 rings. Best coach in NBA history. We should have signed him right after we fired Brown. There is no discussion here.



#178 Lagunero

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Posted May 23, 2013 - 09:07 AM

guys, [expletive] mda. this is a phil jackson thread lol. plain and simple jackson would make pau and howard work, meaning, we will win with both of them on the court. :)


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#179 West Coast

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Posted May 23, 2013 - 10:00 AM

Phil retweeted this, thought it was interesting:

 

@Max_Kellerman why hasn't @KRambis been mentioned as a head coach? He was a @PhilJackson11 Padawan and has been a head coach. #LakersNation



#180 True Lakers Fan

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Posted May 23, 2013 - 10:16 AM

If we can't get Phil, I would LOVE Rambis as the coach, 


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