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Why it isn't a good idea to give D12 a max contract


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#161 fido

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Posted April 28, 2013 - 08:44 PM

"Well you all wanted Howard, where did that get us? It took the last game of the year to make the playoffs. If signing a guy to help us make the 7th or 8th seed was a success in your eyes, then it's the other way around."

 

That's blaming Howard for not getting the Lakers further.



#162 Dwight Rules All

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Posted April 28, 2013 - 08:46 PM

Sign him to a max contract then. If it works it works, in my opinion it will be a big mistake. We all have our opinions and this is mine. I'm not allowed to have one?



#163 West Coast

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Posted April 28, 2013 - 08:47 PM

Sign him to a max contract then. If it works it works, in my opinion it will be a big mistake. We all have our opinions and this is mine. I'm not allowed to have one?

 

You're allowed to have one, it's the reasoning behind your opinion that's the issue. 



#164 Dwight Rules All

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Posted April 28, 2013 - 08:47 PM

"Well you all wanted Howard, where did that get us? It took the last game of the year to make the playoffs. If signing a guy to help us make the 7th or 8th seed was a success in your eyes, then it's the other way around."

 

That's blaming Howard for not getting the Lakers further.

It's not blaming Howard. It's saying that adding him was not the answer. Am I wrong? We still have "HUGE" problems.



#165 last stand 2.0

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Posted April 28, 2013 - 08:48 PM

how is there 2 lakerfandudes that have the exact same opinions


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#166 Real Deal

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Posted April 28, 2013 - 08:48 PM

We have better shooters this year than we did last year. Meeks, Jamison, a better Steve Blake, Clark. A coach that won't cater to him you say? He benched Gasol at the beginning of the year and said he did it because he wanted to win. When asked why he wouldn't bench Howard after he missed hella free throws that helped us lose games, he said it's because he is our franchise player and you need to make the franchise players happy. He left him in and catered to him only second to Kobe, which is what other Laker coaches have done.

We shot in the worst half of the league from three...but I'm assuming you didn't read this.  Most of our threes were coming from Kobe (in bail-outs) or Ron Artest.  Meeks, Jamison, Blake, Clark...were all bench players.  Clark wasn't playing until Gasol was injured, actually...and once he put together a bad string of games, he was getting limited minutes again.  Blake was injured for quite some time, also...but maybe you forgot about that.  Jamison has been jacking shots with a wrist/hand that needs surgery this offseason.

 

He benched Gasol because of Gasol's poor play, and he stated this in the presser.  He benched him the same week (just days after) he took over as coach.  The real reason, though?  He did it because he had no idea how to play a double-post motion offense.

 

So what did the Lakers run, offensively?  It wasn't an offense to cater Dwight Howard, was it?  I'm trying to get you to answer that question, but you refuse to.

 

No, it wasn't.  In fact, nothing we did catered to Dwight.  Each time he touched the ball, we weren't spreading the floor to pull the opposing defense OUT of the paint, and nothing is easier than fronting AND playing the backside of a post player.

 

So, again, I ask...what would have been your suggestion?  What do you think Howard should have done, play more like Mehmet Okur?



#167 Dwight Rules All

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Posted April 28, 2013 - 08:49 PM

You're allowed to have one, it's the reasoning behind your opinion that's the issue. 

West Coast, my opinion is based on what I saw this year, and on the fact that I don't think he wanted to sign here in the 1st place which didn't help any. My opinion is that he will sign somewhere else because he wants to be the big fish in a smaller pond as they say. If I'm wrong I'm wrong. Only time will tell.



#168 fido

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Posted April 28, 2013 - 08:51 PM

You're wrong.

 

He won't turn down a 2-year, 30 million dollar difference in contracts along with being in the second biggest market in the world and being the main cog for the league's most storied franchise.

 

He'll flirt with other teams like all the big guys do, but he'll re-sign and you'll look back on this thread and smack yourself in the forehead harder than you ever thought you could.

 

Also, is there an answer to Real Deal's and my questions yet?



#169 last stand 2.0

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Posted April 28, 2013 - 08:53 PM

people forget kobe spent time flirting with chicago and the clippers. at some points people were saying he would sign in one of those places.

 

i swear people forget such recent history 


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#170 fido

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Posted April 28, 2013 - 08:55 PM

People love to forget history when it doesn't support their argument.



#171 Dwight Rules All

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Posted April 28, 2013 - 08:56 PM

We shot in the worst half of the league from three...but I'm assuming you didn't read this.  Most of our threes were coming from Kobe (in bail-outs) or Ron Artest.  Meeks, Jamison, Blake, Clark...were all bench players.  Clark wasn't playing until Gasol was injured, actually...and once he put together a bad string of games, he was getting limited minutes again.  Blake was injured for quite some time, also...but maybe you forgot about that.  Jamison has been jacking shots with a wrist/hand that needs surgery this offseason.

 

He benched Gasol because of Gasol's poor play, and he stated this in the presser.  He benched him the same week (just days after) he took over as coach.  The real reason, though?  He did it because he had no idea how to play a double-post motion offense.

 

So what did the Lakers run, offensively?  It wasn't an offense to cater Dwight Howard, was it?  I'm trying to get you to answer that question, but you refuse to.

 

No, it wasn't.  In fact, nothing we did catered to Dwight.  Each time he touched the ball, we weren't spreading the floor to pull the opposing defense OUT of the paint, and nothing is easier than fronting AND playing the backside of a post player.

 

So, again, I ask...what would have been your suggestion?  What do you think Howard should have done, play more like Mehmet Okur?

I'm saying that he was in no better position than say Bynum was last year. Last years team was played around Kobe just like this year. You thought that when he signed he would be the focal point? The offense would cater around Dwight? It is what it always is with Kobe as the leader. Howard dealt with it the same way Drew did last year, he didn't like it.

 

I was under the impression from what I heard on many sites was that if we got Howard things would change for the better. I didn't believe it and I haven't seen it. I feel Kobe will be back next year and maybe a year or 2 after that. If that's the case, will the offense all of a sudden switch from Kobe to Howard? In my eyes, no. If it won't cater to Howard in the next couple of years, then why resign him to a max deal?


Edited by lakersfandude, April 28, 2013 - 09:00 PM.


#172 fido

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Posted April 28, 2013 - 08:59 PM

So you have to be the focus of an offense to get a max deal?  Defensive prowess, being the best rebounder in the league and one of the best defenders year after year doesn't garner a max deal?  So only half the game deserves a big money deal, defense just doesn't matter as much - is this what you're getting at?

 

The difference between Bynum and Howard is, Howard doesn't whine and poiut on and off the court letting it affect his play.  Howard brings effort to every game and even when he was at 50% capacity (for most of the year) he was a better defender than Bynum could be if he was 10 feet tall.  Comparing Howard to Bynum in ANY way is a losing game, you might wanna run far away from bringing that up.

 

And yes, the offense will start moving to feature Dwight as Kobe ages, and especially off of this major injury.  The triangle caters perfectly to both players by the way.



#173 Dwight Rules All

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Posted April 28, 2013 - 09:04 PM

So you have to be the focus of an offense to get a max deal?  Defensive prowess, being the best rebounder in the league and one of the best defenders year after year doesn't garner a max deal?  So only half the game deserves a big money deal, defense just doesn't matter as much - is this what you're getting at?

 

The difference between Bynum and Howard is, Howard doesn't whine and poiut on and off the court letting it affect his play.  Howard brings effort to every game and even when he was at 50% capacity (for most of the year) he was a better defender than Bynum could be if he was 10 feet tall.  Comparing Howard to Bynum in ANY way is a losing game, you might wanna run far away from bringing that up.

 

And yes, the offense will start moving to feature Dwight as Kobe ages, and especially off of this major injury.  The triangle caters perfectly to both players by the way.

We'll see dude. Some of us will be right and some of us will be wrong. That's how it goes. I feel I'm right and you feel you are. Nobody will know for sure for the next few years.


Edited by lakersfandude, April 28, 2013 - 09:05 PM.


#174 Disaster in Paradise

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Posted April 28, 2013 - 09:05 PM

Then that's because nobody likes the truth. It's not fun to think about. It's always better to think that all is good, but sorry bro, it's not. Dwight Howard in L.A. will never be the Dwight Howard of Orlando. 

 

 

It's not the truth, in fact, it's far from it. 

Your keen judgment is plain bonkers. 


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#175 Real Deal

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Posted April 28, 2013 - 09:08 PM

I'm saying that he was in no better position than say Bynum was last year. Last years team was played around Kobe just like this year. You thought that when he signed he would be the focal point? The offense would cater around Dwight? It is what it always is with Kobe as the leader. Howard dealt with it the same way Drew did last year, he didn't like it.

 

I was under the impression from what I heard on many sites was that if we got Howard things would change for the better. I didn't believe it and I haven't seen it. I feel Kobe will be back next year and maybe a year or 2 after that. If that's the case, will the offense all of a sudden switch from Kobe to Howard? In my eyes, no. If it won't cater to Howard in the next couple of years, then why resign him to a max deal?

Welp...that's not a good thing for you to say, because Mike Brown ran the 4-out/1-in offense, which catered to Bynum more than anything we have ran for Dwight this season.

 

It was a modified offense that was ran FOR Dwight in Orlando...modified to fit Kobe into the mix, who would get ISO's and P&R out of broken offense.

 

Bynum failed to produce out of it because he could not pass the ball back out of doubles, and he was not drawing enough defensive attention with Kobe out there because, simply put, he was not that big of an offensive threat.

 

So...yeah, don't compare the two players.  Bynum is a one-year flash-in-the-pan who is a lazy player in general, who has not proven anything as a second option (let alone a primary option), and who wouldn't even ATTEMPT to come back and play for the Sixers this season.



#176 Dwight Rules All

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Posted April 28, 2013 - 09:08 PM

It's not the truth, in fact, it's far from it. 

Your keen judgment is plain bonkers. 

Only time will tell. If I'm wrong I'm wrong.



#177 Dwight Rules All

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Posted April 28, 2013 - 09:15 PM

Welp...that's not a good thing for you to say, because Mike Brown ran the 4-out/1-in offense, which catered to Bynum more than anything we have ran for Dwight this season.

 

It was a modified offense that was ran FOR Dwight in Orlando...modified to fit Kobe into the mix, who would get ISO's and P&R out of broken offense.

 

Bynum failed to produce out of it because he could not pass the ball back out of doubles, and he was not drawing enough defensive attention with Kobe out there because, simply put, he was not that big of an offensive threat.

 

So...yeah, don't compare the two players.  Bynum is a one-year flash-in-the-pan who is a lazy player in general, who has not proven anything as a second option (let alone a primary option), and who wouldn't even ATTEMPT to come back and play for the Sixers this season.

At least he could hit free throws. How many games did we lose this year because Howard couldn't make a freakin free throw. I can tell you, it was alot. That's what got us to a below .500 record for the 1st half of the year. That's not gonna change. As far as Bynum goes, I don't know, but I did read somewhere that he eventually had to have surgery. Maybe he didn't attempt to play because his knees were shot. You gotta ask him. Besides, he's not on the Lakers anymore, Howard is. 



#178 fido

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Posted April 28, 2013 - 09:17 PM

So now you're moving down to blaming the free throws as the root of a good chunk of losses?  Wow, its degrading further then,  Shaq had the same free throw issues, but if the game is coached and played properly by the TEAM free throws don't matter.  What happens now is you're looking for deficiencies in his game.  The other arguments you've brought up held no water, so the next and easiest thing to run to is free throws.

 

I've heard this rhetoric before.

 

Since its the most glaring weak spot in his game its perceived as the lynch pin that brings him and the team down.  I can tell you either haven't watched much Laker basketball or you're a brand new fan due to you either ignoring or not knowing what has come before.  Shaq had this same criticism, the exact same one.  Free throws, though great to make at a good clip, should not have an adverse affect on the game if the offensive and defensive schemes are laid out correctly and to suit the personnel on the team.

 

When the Lakers won their 3 in a row with Shaq in the paint, his free throws barely improved.  They wavered in and out, but somehow they managed to win because the team concept was firmly in place by a coach who had a game plan.  You're blaming things on Dwight without looking any deeper than what the radio or a TV announcer has told you.  Bad way to approach analyzing a team or player.

 

By thew way, still no answers to any of the legitimate questions brought up to you?



#179 Dwight Rules All

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Posted April 28, 2013 - 09:20 PM

So now you're moving down to blaming the free throws as the root of a good chunk of losses?  Wow, its degrading further then,  Shaq had the same free throw issues, but if the game is coached and played properly by the TEAM free throws don't matter.  What happens now is you're looking for deficiencies in his game.  The other arguments you've brought up held no water, so the next and easiest thing to run to is free throws.

 

I've heard this rhetoric before.

 

Since its the most glaring weak spot in his game its perceived as the lynch pin that brings him and the team down.  I can tell you either haven't watched much Laker basketball or you're a brand new fan due to you either ignoring or not knowing what has come before.  Shaq had this same criticism, the exact same one.  Free throws, though great to make at a good clip, should not have an adverse affect on the game if the offensive and defensive schemes are laid out correctly and to suit the personnel on the team.

 

When the Lakers won their 3 in a row with Shaq in the paint, his free throws barely improved.  They wavered in and out, but somehow they managed to win because the team concept was firmly in place by a coach who had a game plan.  You're blaming things on Dwight without looking any deeper than what the radio or a TV announcer has told you.  Bad way to approach analyzing a team or player.

 

By thew way, still no answers to any of the legitimate questions brought up to you?

Now you are comparing Howard to Shaq? That's pretty funny. If Shaq missed free throws, he'd still score 30 or 40. There's no comparison. Howard is not good enough to overcome his crappy free throws like Shaq was. That's a bad comparison fido.



#180 Dwight Rules All

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Posted April 28, 2013 - 09:21 PM

We will just have to see who wins this debate in the future. I'm looking forward to it.






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