Jump to content




Photo

Why it isn't a good idea to give D12 a max contract


  • Please log in to reply
218 replies to this topic

#41 Majesty

Majesty

    Grats on making the Raiderettes cuzzo!!

  • 38,898 posts
  • Joined: Dec 11, 2011
  • Name:Jay
  • Fan Since:1987
  • Fav. Laker:Kobe present, Magic past

Posted April 28, 2013 - 12:24 PM

Dwight is a 57-60% FG post player who can give your team 20+ points and 10+ rebounds on any given night, who commands double teams anytime he's near the rim with the ball.  He has had multiple seasons of 10+ FTA/G.

 

You question his offensive abilities, but ask Golden State how scary he is on that end of the floor; that's the team that had to send him to the line for an NBA-record 39 free throws.

 

And no, Gasol didn't lead a team to the Finals.  The furthest he led a team was to a first-round sweep.  

 

Let's not confuse a primary scoring option in Orlando (Dwight Howard) to a secondary scoring option in Los Angeles (Pau Gasol).  The roles were completely different.  

 

Orlando's shooters (basically anyone not named Dwight) relied heavily on Howard's ability to draw doubles in the post.

 

Pau Gasol relied heavily on Kobe's ability to draw doubles outside of it.

 

---------

 

If having more post moves makes you a better offensive player, then Carlos Boozer is a better offensive player than Shaq (and so are many others, according to that failed logic).

 

Yeah, it's not fun winning 45 games and losing in the first round.  Doesn't mean we should have put Kobe on blast for winning 45 and 42, and losing to Phoenix twice in the first round, when he was out there with Odom.

 

This year, Howard averaged 17 PPG, 12 RPG, 57.8% FG.
 
How many other 17/12/57% seasons have we seen?
 
Howard (12-13)
Howard (11-12)
Howard (10-11)
Howard (09-10)
Howard (08-09)
Howard (07-08)
Howard (06-07)
O'Neal (00-01)
O'Neal (99-00)
O'Neal (93-94)
Barkley (88-89)
Parish (88-89)
Barkley (86-87)
Barkley (85-86)
 
Kareem makes the list four times, Wilt makes it three.  I'll stop there.  Howard is the only player to do it since Shaq in the 2001 season.
 
He deserves a max deal.



Yes, if we want any further evidence how much Kobe helped Pau all you have to do is look no further than this series.


Look at Pau Gasol's field goal percentage in the last few games(including playoff games) without Kobe drawing attention.  There's a reason he can't do anything.  Pau Gasol isn't leading a team anywhere.


Is Wayne Brady gonna have to Djokovic? - Robert Flores 


#42 erfolk

erfolk

    Rookie

  • 730 posts
  • Joined: May 02, 2011
  • Name:Lewis
  • Fan Since:Birth:10-31-86
  • Fav. Laker:All Bout The Name On The Front

Posted April 28, 2013 - 12:29 PM

I'll admit "led" was the wrong word, but FACTS are kobe wasn't going to win poop till pau's arrival, he WAS a huge factor. Pau couldnt win without kobe, just like kobe couldnt win without pau(post shaq).
As for d12, you think getting pts off open dunks, splitting a pair of FTs, and SOME lucky shots is going to impress me? All those rebounds comes from the defensive end, when no one is around, or literally falls to his lap on the offensive end. Only good thing about the guy is defense, he cant shoot, dribble, or pass. Not worth max imo. Would take marc gasol over him right now, since he'll never be the same again after back surgery.

For you to say Dwight is not worth the max show you know nothing about the game. Dwight is the most dominant center in the game and its not even close. Its just hard to understand where some fans heads are when it comes to basketball. Your saying the ball falls in his lap, do you not see how he fights for position on rebounds probably not. Marc Gasol is a good player don't get me wrong but Dwight is dominant.



#43 LakeShow805

LakeShow805

    Superstar

  • 7,592 posts
  • Joined: Jun 13, 2011
  • Location:Cali
  • Name:Tyler
  • Fan Since:2000
  • Fav. Laker:The mamba

Posted April 28, 2013 - 12:53 PM

So much fail in this thread.

 

Oh my.....



#44 jax24

jax24

    Starter

  • 881 posts
  • Joined: Jun 23, 2010
  • Name:Jax
  • Fan Since:1979
  • Fav. Laker:Kobe Bryant

Posted April 28, 2013 - 12:55 PM

Howard = Max Contract. Simple as that. Love those stats Real Deal to back it up. What's even more impressive is this years numbers considering he has not been 100%. I don't disagree that Howard is no Shaq or Hakeem offensively. I'm sure it annoys most of us at times. However as his FG %(which led the NBA) and PPG show he converts a lot of his shots(which he should) and averages 17 which may not be spectacular but is pretty respectable for a defensive player. He ain't no Kwame or Wallace lol. He does actually have some offense. Obviously where he earns his money and his strongest attribute is his defense. We all know what he brings in that department. When fully fit the best defensive player in the game. The key to maximizing his offensive ability is the right coach running the right system and having the the right personnel. This was shown in Orlando when he led them to the Finals and they were a top contender in the East. Dwight deserves the Max no doubt. Even if things dont work out down the road here at the Lakers he can still be a good trade chip. The bigger question is do the FO know and can they put the right pieces around him to suceed as the next franchise player. Well I guess we will find out very soon.

#45 Real Deal

Real Deal

    Legend

  • 14,881 posts
  • Joined: Jun 29, 2008
  • Location:Kansas
  • Name:Brandon
  • Fav. Laker:Kobe

Posted April 28, 2013 - 01:03 PM

I'll admit "led" was the wrong word, but FACTS are kobe wasn't going to win poop till pau's arrival, he WAS a huge factor. Pau couldnt win without kobe, just like kobe couldnt win without pau(post shaq).
As for d12, you think getting pts off open dunks, splitting a pair of FTs, and SOME lucky shots is going to impress me? All those rebounds comes from the defensive end, when no one is around, or literally falls to his lap on the offensive end. Only good thing about the guy is defense, he cant shoot, dribble, or pass. Not worth max imo. Would take marc gasol over him right now, since he'll never be the same again after back surgery.

Tim Duncan wasn't going to win three of his rings without Tony Parker, but that doesn't mean he wasn't going to be able to do it with another player (and Tony Parker is a greater player than Gasol).  Don't boost Gasol's value to prove a point.

 

But more interesting is that last line...

 

Dwight will never be the same after his back surgery?  Let's establish a point: his 17 PPG, 13 RPG, and 58% FG are nearly aligned with his career averages, and that was produced with Kobe as the primary option AND Gasol sharing rebounds with him...along with a few months where Dwight SHOULD NOT have played.

 

Funny, though, that you say you want Marc Gasol over Howard.

 

1) You mentioned Howard's age...but fail to say that Marc Gasol is already 28.

 

2) You mention Howard's inability to score the ball, but don't want to talk about Marc Gasol's 14 PPG on a bad 49% FG (for a big man).

 

3) You talk about Howard on the glass, but don't point out that Marc Gasol averaged just 8 RPG this season, and has NEVER averaged over 9.3 a game.

 

And of course you have a problem with Howard's free throws.  Did you have a problem with Shaq's?  Did Detroit find that Ben Wallace was more of a liability than a help when he was not only arguably the worst FT shooter in league history...but also one of the worst offensive players on their team?

 

Your move.  Try not to ignore the post this time.



#46 Japago

Japago

    Sixth Man

  • 4,050 posts
  • Joined: Aug 02, 2010
  • Name:Pat
  • Fav. Laker:Kobe

Posted April 28, 2013 - 01:05 PM

Dwight has been a legit MVP candidate in this league. Far worse players have gotten max contracts. It's an insult to compare Pau to Dwight, much less Kobe. That's even if you just take into account Pau's great years. He's never had the kind of impact Dwight has had.

 

People always want to blame the most popular players for how this season has gone. Lot's of people blamed Kobe too. He shot too much and was ignoring much better options the Lakers had.

 

That was funny when I heard it, and even funnier now.


Edited by Japago, April 28, 2013 - 01:08 PM.

Posted Image


#47 SuperSaiyan5=Kobe24

SuperSaiyan5=Kobe24

    Rookie

  • 43 posts
  • Joined: Apr 08, 2013
  • Fan Since:2004
  • Fav. Laker:Ebanks jk kobe lol

Posted April 28, 2013 - 01:16 PM

The only reason his fg% is decent is because he gets fouled a lot. Which makes his failed shots not count, can you guess what happens after he gets fouled? 2 incoming bricks. His fg% is high cause of open dunks.
I love how everyones argument is "OH BUT HE CARRIED THE ORLANDO SCRUBS TO THE FINALS, HES GOD!"
I can use that argument too, the lakers were going NO WHERE until pau came, but can you say he's STILL good?

I dont know why people fail to understand after back surgery youll never be the same again. I know im going to be right in the end, and when it's proven, i'll just simply bump this thread saying I told you so.

#48 Majesty

Majesty

    Grats on making the Raiderettes cuzzo!!

  • 38,898 posts
  • Joined: Dec 11, 2011
  • Name:Jay
  • Fan Since:1987
  • Fav. Laker:Kobe present, Magic past

Posted April 28, 2013 - 01:17 PM

The only reason his fg% is decent is because he gets fouled a lot. Which makes his failed shots not count, can you guess what happens after he gets fouled? 2 incoming bricks. His fg% is high cause of open dunks.
I love how everyones argument is "OH BUT HE CARRIED THE ORLANDO SCRUBS TO THE FINALS, HES GOD!"
I can use that argument too, the lakers were going NO WHERE until pau came, but can you say he's STILL good?

I dont know why people fail to understand after back surgery youll never be the same again. I know im going to be right in the end, and when it's proven, i'll just simply bump this thread saying I told you so.



Ah so we're hating on centers for dunking because it increases their field goal percentage...

Know why Dwight gets fouled a lot?  Because other teams FEAR HIM in the paint and send double teams at him left and right.

If he sucked offensively he'd be single covered and wouldn't be fouled half as much as he does. 

You just beat your own argument.


Edited by Majesty, April 28, 2013 - 01:18 PM.

Is Wayne Brady gonna have to Djokovic? - Robert Flores 


#49 Real Deal

Real Deal

    Legend

  • 14,881 posts
  • Joined: Jun 29, 2008
  • Location:Kansas
  • Name:Brandon
  • Fav. Laker:Kobe

Posted April 28, 2013 - 01:32 PM

The only reason his fg% is decent is because he gets fouled a lot. Which makes his failed shots not count, can you guess what happens after he gets fouled? 2 incoming bricks. His fg% is high cause of open dunks.
I love how everyones argument is "OH BUT HE CARRIED THE ORLANDO SCRUBS TO THE FINALS, HES GOD!"
I can use that argument too, the lakers were going NO WHERE until pau came, but can you say he's STILL good?

I dont know why people fail to understand after back surgery youll never be the same again. I know im going to be right in the end, and when it's proven, i'll just simply bump this thread saying I told you so.

So your argument is for Shaq as well, right?  Because he was fouled just as much, and shot just as bad (if not worse) from the free throw line...yet, had a high FG%.

 

Pau was the missing piece for the Lakers to contend.  He was an all-star, and that's IT.  Superstar, and all-star, are two different things.

 

Memphis failed to build around Gasol because, quite frankly, he was nothing more than an all-star.  Not a franchise player.

 

Orlando built around Dwight and got to the Finals.

 

You're making yourself look bad now...and I'm only getting started, kinda holding back only because I have a jacked-up finger and can't type as much as I want to, and I'm also watching Heat/Bucks.



#50 Majesty

Majesty

    Grats on making the Raiderettes cuzzo!!

  • 38,898 posts
  • Joined: Dec 11, 2011
  • Name:Jay
  • Fan Since:1987
  • Fav. Laker:Kobe present, Magic past

Posted April 28, 2013 - 01:34 PM

So your argument is for Shaq as well, right?  Because he was fouled just as much, and shot just as bad (if not worse) from the free throw line...yet, had a high FG%.

 

Pau was the missing piece for the Lakers to contend.  He was an all-star, and that's IT.  Superstar, and all-star, are two different things.

 

Memphis failed to build around Gasol because, quite frankly, he was nothing more than an all-star.  Not a franchise player.

 

Orlando built around Dwight and got to the Finals.

 

You're making yourself look bad now...and I'm only getting started, kinda holding back only because I have a jacked-up finger and can't type as much as I want to, and I'm also watching Heat/Bucks.


It's like the re-run of a soap opera...

The Heat don't try for 3 quarters, take over in the 4th and then win.


Is Wayne Brady gonna have to Djokovic? - Robert Flores 


#51 SuperSaiyan5=Kobe24

SuperSaiyan5=Kobe24

    Rookie

  • 43 posts
  • Joined: Apr 08, 2013
  • Fan Since:2004
  • Fav. Laker:Ebanks jk kobe lol

Posted April 28, 2013 - 01:37 PM

Tim Duncan wasn't going to win three of his rings without Tony Parker, but that doesn't mean he wasn't going to be able to do it with another player (and Tony Parker is a greater player than Gasol). Don't boost Gasol's value to prove a point.

But more interesting is that last line...

Dwight will never be the same after his back surgery? Let's establish a point: his 17 PPG, 13 RPG, and 58% FG are nearly aligned with his career averages, and that was produced with Kobe as the primary option AND Gasol sharing rebounds with him...along with a few months where Dwight SHOULD NOT have played.

Funny, though, that you say you want Marc Gasol over Howard.

1) You mentioned Howard's age...but fail to say that Marc Gasol is already 28.

2) You mention Howard's inability to score the ball, but don't want to talk about Marc Gasol's 14 PPG on a bad 49% FG (for a big man).

3) You talk about Howard on the glass, but don't point out that Marc Gasol averaged just 8 RPG this season, and has NEVER averaged over 9.3 a game.

And of course you have a problem with Howard's free throws. Did you have a problem with Shaq's? Did Detroit find that Ben Wallace was more of a liability than a help when he was not only arguably the worst FT shooter in league history...but also one of the worst offensive players on their team?

Your move. Try not to ignore the post this time.

Im on a phone, I addressed your post, I just didnt quote it.
Oh look more stats. Does it show how versatile marc is? He has a midrange game, and can draw doubles, freeing up Zbo, and if he doesnt he can just drive, you know what else he can do? Pass the [expletive]ing ball. What does dwight do when he get the ball? Everything but passing, he rarely passes it when hes at the post, since you like stats so much how many assists did dwight have last game? A big fat 0. How many does he average? 1.4. I also like how you didnt compare marc's 84% FT compared to dwight's lovely 49%. Marc brings more to the table than d12, and he gets paid way less than he does.

#52 Majesty

Majesty

    Grats on making the Raiderettes cuzzo!!

  • 38,898 posts
  • Joined: Dec 11, 2011
  • Name:Jay
  • Fan Since:1987
  • Fav. Laker:Kobe present, Magic past

Posted April 28, 2013 - 01:40 PM

Dwight is actually very efficient at passing from the post.

Once again, it's why Orlando had success.

You're running out of reasons and now are 'hating' whenever stats that disprove your angle are posted because you don't have any to counter it.

This game has been played here many times before.

Just because Dwight's guys didn't knock down the open jump shots he got them doesn't mean he can't pass -_-


Edited by Majesty, April 28, 2013 - 01:41 PM.

Is Wayne Brady gonna have to Djokovic? - Robert Flores 


#53 SuperSaiyan5=Kobe24

SuperSaiyan5=Kobe24

    Rookie

  • 43 posts
  • Joined: Apr 08, 2013
  • Fan Since:2004
  • Fav. Laker:Ebanks jk kobe lol

Posted April 28, 2013 - 01:42 PM

So your argument is for Shaq as well, right? Because he was fouled just as much, and shot just as bad (if not worse) from the free throw line...yet, had a high FG%.

Pau was the missing piece for the Lakers to contend. He was an all-star, and that's IT. Superstar, and all-star, are two different things.

Memphis failed to build around Gasol because, quite frankly, he was nothing more than an all-star. Not a franchise player.

Orlando built around Dwight and got to the Finals.

You're making yourself look bad now...and I'm only getting started, kinda holding back only because I have a jacked-up finger and can't type as much as I want to, and I'm also watching Heat/Bucks.

Havent really watched/remember a dominant shaq playing since I was only 8 at the time. Oh yea? Dwight is with a bunch of scrubs right now, why are we down 0-3? This is just a preview for the upcoming years IF he re-signs.

Edited by SuperSaiyan5=Kobe24, April 28, 2013 - 01:45 PM.


#54 Majesty

Majesty

    Grats on making the Raiderettes cuzzo!!

  • 38,898 posts
  • Joined: Dec 11, 2011
  • Name:Jay
  • Fan Since:1987
  • Fav. Laker:Kobe present, Magic past

Posted April 28, 2013 - 01:43 PM

Havent really watched/remember a dominant shaq playing at the time since I was only 8 at the time. Oh yea? Dwight is with a bunch of scrubs right now, why are we down 0-3? This is just a preview for the upcoming years IF he re-signs.

 

Blaming Dwight for us being down 0-3 shows how desperately you're reaching for something ANYTHING to try to be right and you're not succeeding.


Is Wayne Brady gonna have to Djokovic? - Robert Flores 


#55 SuperSaiyan5=Kobe24

SuperSaiyan5=Kobe24

    Rookie

  • 43 posts
  • Joined: Apr 08, 2013
  • Fan Since:2004
  • Fav. Laker:Ebanks jk kobe lol

Posted April 28, 2013 - 01:44 PM

Speaking of bucks vs heat, jennings disappeared in the series. Haha, you guys still want him? Hes looking for max too LOL.

#56 SuperSaiyan5=Kobe24

SuperSaiyan5=Kobe24

    Rookie

  • 43 posts
  • Joined: Apr 08, 2013
  • Fan Since:2004
  • Fav. Laker:Ebanks jk kobe lol

Posted April 28, 2013 - 01:47 PM


Blaming Dwight for us being down 0-3 shows how desperately you're reaching for something ANYTHING to try to be right and you're not succeeding.


You guys keep telling me about him being great and leading his team to the finals singlehandedly, yet he cant even win just ONE game for us?

#57 SuperSaiyan5=Kobe24

SuperSaiyan5=Kobe24

    Rookie

  • 43 posts
  • Joined: Apr 08, 2013
  • Fan Since:2004
  • Fav. Laker:Ebanks jk kobe lol

Posted April 28, 2013 - 01:50 PM

Dwight is actually very efficient at passing from the post.

Once again, it's why Orlando had success.

You're running out of reasons and now are 'hating' whenever stats that disprove your angle are posted because you don't have any to counter it.

This game has been played here many times before.

Just because Dwight's guys didn't knock down the open jump shots he got them doesn't mean he can't pass -_-

Splitter isnt playing today's game and diaw is still out. Lets see what dwight can do.

#58 Real Deal

Real Deal

    Legend

  • 14,881 posts
  • Joined: Jun 29, 2008
  • Location:Kansas
  • Name:Brandon
  • Fav. Laker:Kobe

Posted April 28, 2013 - 01:52 PM

Im on a phone, I addressed your post, I just didnt quote it.
Oh look more stats. Does it show how versatile marc is? He has a midrange game, and can draw doubles, freeing up Zbo, and if he doesnt he can just drive, you know what else he can do? Pass the fucking ball. What does dwight do when he get the ball? Everything but passing, he rarely passes it when hes at the post, since you like stats so much how many assists did dwight have last game? A big fat 0. How many does he average? 1.4. I also like how you didnt compare marc's 84% FT compared to dwight's lovely 49%. Marc brings more to the table than d12, and he gets paid way less than he does.

So again, you'd take a Pau or Marc Gasol over Shaq? They are "more complete" than O'Neal. And don't give me excuses about not watching Shaq. I wasn't alive for Wilt, but I know how he played, and I've seen enough footage of him.

#59 Majesty

Majesty

    Grats on making the Raiderettes cuzzo!!

  • 38,898 posts
  • Joined: Dec 11, 2011
  • Name:Jay
  • Fan Since:1987
  • Fav. Laker:Kobe present, Magic past

Posted April 28, 2013 - 01:52 PM

Splitter isnt playing today's game and diaw is still out. Lets see what dwight can do.


Dwight's been doing it all series.

It's not his fault that guys didn't hit jump shots last game.


Pops entire defensive strategy is to try to stop the guy and he's still getting 20/15 with Pop throwing double and triple teams at him.

Dwight is the guy that actually "has" been doing something.


Is Wayne Brady gonna have to Djokovic? - Robert Flores 


#60 True Lakers Fan

True Lakers Fan

    Dead Discussion! You will not win, because I will not lose&a

  • 23,241 posts
  • Joined: May 12, 2009
  • Location:San Antonio but from OC Cali
  • Name:Kyler
  • Fan Since:1990
  • Fav. Laker:Kobe, Swaggy and Kareem

Posted April 28, 2013 - 01:54 PM

Im on a phone, I addressed your post, I just didnt quote it.
Oh look more stats. Does it show how versatile marc is? He has a midrange game, and can draw doubles, freeing up Zbo, and if he doesnt he can just drive, you know what else he can do? Pass the [expletive]ing ball. What does dwight do when he get the ball? Everything but passing,

he rarely passes it when hes at the post, since you like stats so much how many assists did dwight have last game? A big fat 0. How many does he average? 1.4. I also like how you didnt compare marc's 84% FT compared to dwight's lovely 49%. Marc brings more to the table than d12, and he gets paid way less than he does.

 

how do you think Howard led Orlando to the Finals,  its called the 3 out 1 in offense, same thing Brown tried to do when Bynum was here, but Bynum  is not a good enough passing big man 


Kobe%20Bryant%20Sig%20v3.jpg





2 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 2 guests, 0 anonymous users