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Why it isn't a good idea to give D12 a max contract


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#21 SuperSaiyan5=Kobe24

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Posted April 27, 2013 - 08:12 PM

At least no one is disagreeing on how much he sucks in the offensive end. Again d12 is a beast defensively, but what irks about the guy is that he DEMANDS the ball even though hes likely to turn it over. If he was like noah and knew how bad he was on offense, I wouldnt mind him at all, but this dude wont stfu and just play defense

#22 muncher

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Posted April 27, 2013 - 08:34 PM

In the end Dwight is a max contract player. Either he gets it here, or gets it somewhere else.



#23 BasketballIQ

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Posted April 27, 2013 - 09:01 PM

Not sure if u understand what a horrible offensive player is. Ben Wallace. Kwame Brown.

Dwight was the offensive leader on a Finals team.

#24 LakeShow805

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Posted April 28, 2013 - 08:50 AM

At least no one is disagreeing on how much he sucks in the offensive end. Again d12 is a beast defensively, but what irks about the guy is that he DEMANDS the ball even though hes likely to turn it over. If he was like noah and knew how bad he was on offense, I wouldnt mind him at all, but this dude wont stfu and just play defense

If he was so terrible on offense then he wouldn't have led a team to the nba finals with the him being the primary offensive threat.



#25 DaSmoothOperator

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Posted April 28, 2013 - 08:56 AM

Long ago I said he wasn't the answer for this team but nooooo none of you followers had an independent thought that the center position wasn't where the team was weakest and all you "Let's get ready for the Parade for a few years" DHoward never gets injured? You folks are now ready to see real hoops and not be prisoners of the moment, let's see how many people we can fit into a VW? This guy is getting cred without producing, he is ok on Defense not great, or didn't you watch the last game? But as a max contract player he has way too many flaws and leadership is at the top, crunch time player? free throws are a different game not NBA basketball, and those go-to offensive moves, close your eyes you can see them in your head, oh you can't, me either, loads of quality free agents coming around I'd trade this dude amnesty MWP and if Kobe can't play next year I'd amnesty him (give him some ownership %) and use the mad cap space to build a real team and welcome Kobe back after the mandatory year he needs the rest whether he thinks so or not. Go ahead tell me how crazy I am. You're the same folks that had hundreds of pages on "Let's get DHoward" lol

#26 SuperSaiyan5=Kobe24

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Posted April 28, 2013 - 08:57 AM

Pau also led this team to the finals and a chip in the past. Doesnt look like thats ever gonna happen again.

#27 SuperSaiyan5=Kobe24

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Posted April 28, 2013 - 09:07 AM


Long ago I said he wasn't the answer for this team but nooooo none of you followers had an independent thought that the center position wasn't where the team was weakest and all you "Let's get ready for the Parade for a few years" DHoward never gets injured? You folks are now ready to see real hoops and not be prisoners of the moment, let's see how many people we can fit into a VW? This guy is getting cred without producing, he is ok on Defense not great, or didn't you watch the last game? But as a max contract player he has way too many flaws and leadership is at the top, crunch time player? free throws are a different game not NBA basketball, and those go-to offensive moves, close your eyes you can see them in your head, oh you can't, me either, loads of quality free agents coming around I'd trade this dude amnesty MWP and if Kobe can't play next year I'd amnesty him (give him some ownership %) and use the mad cap space to build a real team and welcome Kobe back after the mandatory year he needs the rest whether he thinks so or not. Go ahead tell me how crazy I am. You're the same folks that had hundreds of pages on "Let's get DHoward" lol


If bynum wasn't a lazy injury prone bum, and has the will to play the game, id definetly pick him over howard. Im glad we got D12, since bynum didnt do anything at all this year besides sitting on a bench with his afro.

#28 L.A.K.E.R

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Posted April 28, 2013 - 09:17 AM

Pau also led this team to the finals and a chip in the past. Doesnt look like thats ever gonna happen again.

 

Funny, I don't remember Memphis winning anything in the last....ever.

 

Pau did not lead us to a Finals, that was Kobe Bryant. There is a huge difference between being the primary option and leading your team to a Finals appearance (like Kobe and Dwight have done), versus being a 2nd option like Pau Gasol. Pau would NEVER have been able to lead a team to the Finals, not even in his prime. Hell, he couldn't even win a single playoff game prior to teaming up with Kobe.



#29 LakersFanatic

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Posted April 28, 2013 - 09:43 AM

Funny, I don't remember Memphis winning anything in the last....ever.

Pau did not lead us to a Finals, that was Kobe Bryant. There is a huge difference between being the primary option and leading your team to a Finals appearance (like Kobe and Dwight have done), versus being a 2nd option like Pau Gasol. Pau would NEVER have been able to lead a team to the Finals, not even in his prime. Hell, he couldn't even win a single playoff game prior to teaming up with Kobe.


Pau to Kobe is like a Scottie Pippen to Michael Jordan.

Both great players, but they need their superstars to lead the way.

#30 SuperSaiyan5=Kobe24

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Posted April 28, 2013 - 10:30 AM

Funny, I don't remember Memphis winning anything in the last....ever.

Pau did not lead us to a Finals, that was Kobe Bryant. There is a huge difference between being the primary option and leading your team to a Finals appearance (like Kobe and Dwight have done), versus being a 2nd option like Pau Gasol. Pau would NEVER have been able to lead a team to the Finals, not even in his prime. Hell, he couldn't even win a single playoff game prior to teaming up with Kobe.

Too bad west was and still is a lot tougher than the east, if the griz were east im sure it would be a different story. Why are you diminishing pau's role in the past? Kobe didnt win anything post shaq till pau arrived. Stop making it sound like it was all kobe.

#31 Windu

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Posted April 28, 2013 - 10:32 AM

The [expletive] people say

Pau Gasol is GONE


#32 The Big Fish

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Posted April 28, 2013 - 10:39 AM

Pau to Kobe is like a Scottie Pippen to Michael Jordan.

Both great players, but they need their superstars to lead the way.

Scottie Pippen to Pau is an insult to Scottie. Take that back lol. I get the point though. Anyway Dwight is a max player. He is limited offensively in order for us to get our money's worth we are going to have to get consistent 3 point shooting. Otherwise this "Dwight" Era will fail hard. 


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#33 West Coast

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Posted April 28, 2013 - 10:50 AM

Too bad west was and still is a lot tougher than the east, if the griz were east im sure it would be a different story. Why are you diminishing pau's role in the past? Kobe didnt win anything post shaq till pau arrived. Stop making it sound like it was all kobe.


He's not diminishing anyone's role, he's saying you're wrong. The statement was Pau led this team to the finals, which is false.

You're going to tell me that Pau was the leader of this team during our run? You're not because that was Kobe.

Without Pau, Lakers don't go on that 3-4 year run. Without Kobe, Pau doesn't win a single playoff game.

#34 Real Deal

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Posted April 28, 2013 - 10:59 AM

Dwight is a 57-60% FG post player who can give your team 20+ points and 10+ rebounds on any given night, who commands double teams anytime he's near the rim with the ball.  He has had multiple seasons of 10+ FTA/G.

 

You question his offensive abilities, but ask Golden State how scary he is on that end of the floor; that's the team that had to send him to the line for an NBA-record 39 free throws.

 

And no, Gasol didn't lead a team to the Finals.  The furthest he led a team was to a first-round sweep.  

 

Let's not confuse a primary scoring option in Orlando (Dwight Howard) to a secondary scoring option in Los Angeles (Pau Gasol).  The roles were completely different.  

 

Orlando's shooters (basically anyone not named Dwight) relied heavily on Howard's ability to draw doubles in the post.

 

Pau Gasol relied heavily on Kobe's ability to draw doubles outside of it.

 

---------

 

If having more post moves makes you a better offensive player, then Carlos Boozer is a better offensive player than Shaq (and so are many others, according to that failed logic).

 

Yeah, it's not fun winning 45 games and losing in the first round.  Doesn't mean we should have put Kobe on blast for winning 45 and 42, and losing to Phoenix twice in the first round, when he was out there with Odom.

 

This year, Howard averaged 17 PPG, 12 RPG, 57.8% FG.
 
How many other 17/12/57% seasons have we seen?
 
Howard (12-13)
Howard (11-12)
Howard (10-11)
Howard (09-10)
Howard (08-09)
Howard (07-08)
Howard (06-07)
O'Neal (00-01)
O'Neal (99-00)
O'Neal (93-94)
Barkley (88-89)
Parish (88-89)
Barkley (86-87)
Barkley (85-86)
 
Kareem makes the list four times, Wilt makes it three.  I'll stop there.  Howard is the only player to do it since Shaq in the 2001 season.
 
He deserves a max deal.


#35 SuperSaiyan5=Kobe24

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Posted April 28, 2013 - 11:27 AM

I'll admit "led" was the wrong word, but FACTS are kobe wasn't going to win poop till pau's arrival, he WAS a huge factor. Pau couldnt win without kobe, just like kobe couldnt win without pau(post shaq).
As for d12, you think getting pts off open dunks, splitting a pair of FTs, and SOME lucky shots is going to impress me? All those rebounds comes from the defensive end, when no one is around, or literally falls to his lap on the offensive end. Only good thing about the guy is defense, he cant shoot, dribble, or pass. Not worth max imo. Would take marc gasol over him right now, since he'll never be the same again after back surgery.

#36 LakerGeezer

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Posted April 28, 2013 - 11:53 AM

Funny, I don't remember Memphis winning anything in the last....ever.

 

Pau did not lead us to a Finals, that was Kobe Bryant. There is a huge difference between being the primary option and leading your team to a Finals appearance (like Kobe and Dwight have done), versus being a 2nd option like Pau Gasol. Pau would NEVER have been able to lead a team to the Finals, not even in his prime. Hell, he couldn't even win a single playoff game prior to teaming up with Kobe.

And how many titles has Kobe won without a quality big man?


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#37 LakerGeezer

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Posted April 28, 2013 - 11:58 AM

With this way off thinking, we should not have gotten Gasol?

Didn't say that, think a little deeper please.  Typically, top tier players sign the "big", long term contract in the prime of their careers.  When the prime passes and they are still making the "big" paycheck, shallow fans quickly forget the accomplishments and claim that the past his prime guy is now not earning his check any more, when in fact the team realistically HAD to sign him the the contract it did at the time or risk losing him.  That is what has happened with Gasol and in all likelihood will happen with Dwight.


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#38 Ham

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Posted April 28, 2013 - 12:09 PM

Lmfao did you really say he doesn't get offensive rebounds when he is healthy? Are you kidding me? You write without thinking. You think his left handed hook shots are lucky? WTF. since when is a hook shot lucky? He can't pass? He led a bunch of bums (exaggeration: Hedo and Jameer aren't that bad but they aren't that good either) that only knew how to shoot to the finals. How they got all these open looks? Off his offensive presence. Big men don't need dribbling skills they aren't Guards... Shooting is usually never a big mans niche either. FTs are always a big problem with big men. They have big hands, big bodies, and usually neglected from being taught the correct way to shoot free throws. It is not in there comfort zone to shoot. Shaq was bad at it too. Where did he get us? Dwight Howard is the only other player to effect the game so drastically like CP3, and Lebron. He is turning the ball over cause we have [expletive]ty spacing and horrible perimeter offense. Use your damn head

Stop criticizing people that have already proved there greatness so far. He is a superstar for a reason. He needs a good coach and he needs to get healthier. People like you just get me irritated.

Mike D'Antoni is GARBAGE.


#39 Japago

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Posted April 28, 2013 - 12:12 PM

Didn't say that, think a little deeper please.  Typically, top tier players sign the "big", long term contract in the prime of their careers.  When the prime passes and they are still making the "big" paycheck, shallow fans quickly forget the accomplishments and claim that the past his prime guy is now not earning his check any more, when in fact the team realistically HAD to sign him the the contract it did at the time or risk losing him.  That is what has happened with Gasol and in all likelihood will happen with Dwight.

 

As long as Dwight doesn't fall to 12 pts a game on 42% shooting for 3 straight postseasons and is pathetic starting from his 2nd to last season, I won't complain about him at the end of his contract.

 

Pau goes beyond natural decline. He's just been pathetic.


Edited by Japago, April 28, 2013 - 12:22 PM.

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#40 L.A.K.E.R

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Posted April 28, 2013 - 12:13 PM

And how many titles has Kobe won without a quality big man?

 

That wasn't the point. No one wins without help, every great player needs a 2nd option if they want to have any success. I'm not denying the fact that Pau was crucial for us in our back-to-back title runs.

 

However, Pau Gasol has never ever led a team as the 1st option anywhere other than the 1st round. Saying that Pau led us to a championship and Finals berth (like the OP) makes as much sense as saying that Pippen led the Bulls to 6 titles. There was a clear #1 player on those teams, and it definitely wasn't Pau Gasol in either run.

 

Dwight led the Magic to the Finals as a first option and carried that horrid Magic team on the defensive end night in and night out. Often times he was the only one even making a concerted effort on that end of the floor. That is far more impressive than anything Pau Gasol has done in his career as a primary option.






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