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Nash needs to be the main table-setter for everyone in late game situations


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#21 Majesty

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Posted March 24, 2013 - 02:13 PM

If only there was some coach here that had game plans for late in the game or any kind of authority to exercise a plan.

He does what every coach that has coached the Lakers does in a late game jam, give the ball to Kobe and hope he makes the right play.

With the exception of a few very well executed out of bounds plays like the one vs the Hornets which of course he'll never get credit for here.
It didn't start with our current coach.

Sometimes it works sometimes it doesn't.

Though more times this year because we have Nash I've seen him make some game saving plays off of Kobe's passes of course and once or twice on isos off screens.

But at the end of the day it's Kobe's team and it's Kobe's call to make.

Kobe himself said that it was his mistake taking 8 of the 9 last shots in the game against the wizards despite the plays drawn up and promised to be more balanced.


Blame D'antoni all you want for that but Kobe has done that before with coaches before him as well.

As did Jordan.

So we gonna single out D'antoni or we gonna put it on every coach who throws him the ball late in games?

It wasn't what D'antoni asked, and it was something D'antoni was pissed about and told Kobe about after the game. Kobe agreed.

But know why Kobe did that? Kobe had just sat in the Suns game and watched his team go down cause they were exhausted and he wanted to be out there.

Now he saw them battling after the 5 minute 11 point swing. So in his mind he wanted to help his teammates like he couldn't prior, and it wound up hurting us.

All those things he agreed with and D'antoni's addressed. Sometimes Kobe "cares too much" and wants to do everything and after sitting out watching the Suns game it kicked into overdrive.

So the 11 point swing was on Gasol's lack of interior defense and effort, and the late game iso's were on Kobe.

Then again it worked in other games and no one shows up to bash it.

Darned if he does darned if he doesn't.

If the ball goes to Nash late in games and he misses the shot, people will pick it apart all day with how 7"open" Kobe might have been and how stupid of a coach we have to choose someone other than Kobe.

But if it goes to kobe and he misses then its the coaches fault for being"unoriginal"

Darned if you do or don't. His greatest crime is "not" being Phil Jackson.

The same things have happened under Phil, we just had a better record and he had rings.

Evenso, the last 2 months we got ourselves in position to be IN the playoffs.

And since all star break had a 12-1 home record(with 7 straight) and was playing the 2nd best defense in the league, first in the previous 5 games. We've also been the best post all-star break team in the western conference.

Amazing how suddenly all of that is irrelevant after a loss to the Wizards and now we are "terrible" again.

But it is what it is.

Edited by Majesty, March 24, 2013 - 02:24 PM.

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#22 fido

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Posted March 24, 2013 - 02:32 PM

I don't recall me ever saying this team wasn't terrible. By Laker standards they are, and te mild winning they've done post All-Star has done nothing to change it.

#23 Majesty

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Posted March 24, 2013 - 03:07 PM

I don't recall me ever saying this team wasn't terrible. By Laker standards they are, and te mild winning they've done post All-Star has done nothing to change it.



Yes by Lakers standards you are correct.

But since the all-star break they have been performing up to the standards we expected in the first half.

Best record in the west, 2nd best defensively, 16-1 record at home.

Id say their post all-star game stretch has hit closer to the mark and honestly was the effort needed for us to make the playoffs.

So even if we had a crappy first half of the season im content with having a great second half into the playoffs. Aside from the teams that had a great first half and are falling in the 2nd half(ie all the western conference teams have worse records than us post all-star)

The only two that seem to be ok(eventhough struggling) are san antonio and the thunder, cause of how far ahead their records were.

But look at a team like the clippers that have dropped from 2nd/3rd to 5th and the warriors to 6th.

Funny thing is if we get to 6th and the Clippers stay at 5th we face off against them with them in a slump and us on a role and aside from the Nuggets we're the only western conference team that's rising post all-star break.

Id rather enter the playoffs on a role than I would starting the season on fire and in the 2nd to 3rd slot and then drop to 6th or 7th post all-star break.

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#24 fido

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Posted March 24, 2013 - 04:03 PM

All points well taken.

#25 fozi

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Posted March 24, 2013 - 04:20 PM

We had the same talks after winning couple of games and then lose one .. To this point, the team isn't going far(past 1st round) we are 3 weeks away from the playoffs and we are still facing inconsistency issues. We have players that still don't know what to do in the court because we solely focus on reading defense reactions ...



#26 Real Deal

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Posted March 24, 2013 - 11:27 PM

You give me Chris Paul and Tony Parker as your two players who set the tone for their teams late in games...so I'll jump on the boat and say, sure, those two do just that.


Then, I'll hop off with the two best examples anyone can give, from the two best teams in the NBA, the Heat and Thunder: LeBron and Durant.

 

It's not Chalmers and Westbrook running the offense and/or taking those shots, make no mistake about it.  Westbrook gets his shots, but that ball goes into Durant more times than not when it's game time.

 

Additionally, Nash is not CP3 or Parker.  Both can get to the rim at will.  Nash hasn't been able to do this for a couple of seasons now, and especially this year.

 

Kobe is still a top three player in this league.  Nash isn't even a top five PG anymore.

 

All of this hope that Nash was going to run an effective offense...should have been thrown out the window before the season started.  It was CLEAR AS DAY that it wouldn't happen...don't know how this was overlooked.  Clear, especially if you watched him in Phoenix last season (and no, not just in the 3-4 games against us, and Sessions/Fisher/Blake).

 

You know what?  Maybe Kobe should look for Nash a bit more from beyond the arc...but maybe Nash should also try and play off the ball more, and not just stand around like a spectator.  Both can change it up a little, but regardless, the ball starts in Kobe's hands because, quite frankly, he's the superstar.  This is his franchise.  He will ALWAYS be a better player than Steve Nash, from 1996-retirement.  Let's stop suggesting things we tried while we were one of the worst teams in the West.



#27 LakersFanatic

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Posted March 25, 2013 - 06:54 AM



Best record in the west, 2nd best defensively, 16-1 record at home.
 

 

Is this true? We have the best record in the west since the allstar break?



#28 lakerti'lldeath2

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Posted March 25, 2013 - 07:04 AM

Kobe ball late is the worst. Dribble til there is 5 seconds left, zero chance of a pass, take a contested shot. It's great that he makes some huge shots, but an offense that predictable is a recipe for failure. Furthermore, in the playoffs someone other than Kobe is going to have to hit some big shots late, need to start getting them some touches in crunch time.

I agree with you. Like that game against Atlanta they were down four then instead of shooting the shot right away he waits then drives.....I mean Kobe is one of the best players in the League but he needs to stop trying to be a hero all the time.



#29 Viper

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Posted March 25, 2013 - 08:04 AM

Best record in the west, 2nd best defensively, 16-1 record at home.

 
 
Is this true? We have the best record in the west since the allstar break?



Of course not... Are you not following the Denver win streak?

#30 last stand 2.0

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Posted March 25, 2013 - 08:08 AM

You give me Chris Paul and Tony Parker as your two players who set the tone for their teams late in games...so I'll jump on the boat and say, sure, those two do just that.

Then, I'll hop off with the two best examples anyone can give, from the two best teams in the NBA, the Heat and Thunder: LeBron and Durant.

It's not Chalmers and Westbrook running the offense and/or taking those shots, make no mistake about it. Westbrook gets his shots, but that ball goes into Durant more times than not when it's game time.

Additionally, Nash is not CP3 or Parker. Both can get to the rim at will. Nash hasn't been able to do this for a couple of seasons now, and especially this year.

Kobe is still a top three player in this league. Nash isn't even a top five PG anymore.

All of this hope that Nash was going to run an effective offense...should have been thrown out the window before the season started. It was CLEAR AS DAY that it wouldn't happen...don't know how this was overlooked. Clear, especially if you watched him in Phoenix last season (and no, not just in the 3-4 games against us, and Sessions/Fisher/Blake).

You know what? Maybe Kobe should look for Nash a bit more from beyond the arc...but maybe Nash should also try and play off the ball more, and not just stand around like a spectator. Both can change it up a little, but regardless, the ball starts in Kobe's hands because, quite frankly, he's the superstar. This is his franchise. He will ALWAYS be a better player than Steve Nash, from 1996-retirement. Let's stop suggesting things we tried while we were one of the worst teams in the West.


It's the truth. Kobe with the ball in his hands has led to 5 titles. Nash with the ball has led to zero

This really shouldn't even be a debate. The proof is right there
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#31 gque24

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Posted March 25, 2013 - 11:19 AM

People are placing blame on Coach D for his actions well b4 Kobe had to attempt to save the day lat in 4th. It should have never gotten to the point plain & simple.


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#32 BasketballIQ

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Posted March 25, 2013 - 11:42 AM

I saw 2-3 bad KObe plays in that game, where a guy was obviously OPEn, and like Jamison said...YELL AT KOBE if he doesn't pass

 

 

That Metta play was THE problem. We need a guy who won't do that. Meeks isn't that guy by the way, because he is the SAME way.

 

 

I think the bottom line is we need Pau/Metta to be traded for/replaced by 2 solid forwards, a decent big, and  dynamic guard



#33 gque24

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Posted March 25, 2013 - 12:08 PM

^^^Dynamic catch & shoot / spot up shooting Guard


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#34 Majesty

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Posted March 25, 2013 - 01:44 PM

Is this true? We have the best record in the west since the allstar break?


Yep. We did. Denver has probably passed us by a game or so now, but yes we did.

We also had one of the best home records(as has denver) since all-star break.

Denver and us have been the best post all-star break western conference teams in the NBA

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#35 Scooter123

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Posted March 25, 2013 - 03:28 PM

I agree.  End of game options should be Nash-Nash-Nash, with him dishing the ball to Kobe, on low or high back screen to get free. 

 

I am not a fan of Iso-Kobe.  He dribbles the ball around, blowing 5-10 seconds and then takes a contested shot. 



#36 Majesty

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Posted March 25, 2013 - 04:11 PM

Nash Nash Nash lead to a 2-10 record.


If Nash gets game winning opportunities it should be off a pass from Kobe or a pick and roll.

More often than not the ball should be in Kobe's hands, he's the one that makes the defense have to choose how they want to play him.


Nash only has one or two options, and they don't work he gets trapped and we don't get a shot off.

Simple as that.

I do miss when we'd set up the high screens on either side for Nash that we finished games with against Golden State and New York...

But those were the 2 wins...

So like I said, Kobe's hands. Kobe's decisions.

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#37 LakerGeezer

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Posted March 25, 2013 - 04:16 PM

^Spot on.  Nash is much better off the ball in crunch time at this point in his career.


Debbie Downer

 

 


#38 noknife

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Posted March 25, 2013 - 04:31 PM

Doesn't matter who takes the shot, just something a little less predictable than hold the ball at the 3 point line til the shot clock gets low and then hope for the best would be a huge improvement. Especially with an offensive genius like D'antoni and the ultimate closer in Kobe, sarcasm intended.




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