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Re-clariying why Pau Gasol shouldn't start


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#61 Alpha Four

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Posted March 22, 2013 - 10:52 PM

oh because i'm riled over a loss i should be a heat fan? makes perfect sense.

 

and thanks for stating the obvious, because the only thing we care about NOW are wins.

 

When you make threads like this one: http://lakernation.c...his-team-sucks/ you may as well be.

 

I STILL don't get why people are overreacting so hard. Is it last year again?


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#62 L.A.K.E.R

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Posted March 22, 2013 - 10:54 PM

I see how you try to twist things into making it seem like gasols fault. This game was on Kobe. Just because he made a few shots in the fourth, it doesn't make up for his lack of discipline on defense and his careless turnovers.

 

He had careless turnovers and some bad defensive possessions, but they didn't kill us as badly as Gasol who doesn't care to play a lick of defense. 18-7 run flipped a 9 point advantage to a 2 point deficit. That run consisted of drives by Wall and Ariza, collapsing defense due to the lack of a reliable anchor, and various kick-out after the collapse. That's going to hurt especially bad when John Wall is the one attacking us off the dribble.

 

Kobe got burned on a few possessions by losing sight of his man, not going to deny that, but the majority of them were due to giving help on the drive because Wall was penetrating at will off the high P&R. The high P&R in general destroyed us when they dragged either Jamison/MWP/Gasol up to cover, since Nash has no chance of containing Wall off the dribble. As a result, our defense falls apart, Kobe can't recover quickly enough to his man, and we get smacked around by the same play over and over.

 

The catalyst was Pau Gasol's time on the floor to close the 3rd and start the 4th. It carried over the rest of the game once the Wizards realized that dragging out anyone but Howard off the high P&R was the key to destroying us. Once Wall got into rhythm and found confidence late in the game, it was essentially over. We gave up too much momentum with that stretch that Howard rested. There is no way to contain John Wall off the dribble if we have such horrible man coverage with Nash and equally bad help coverage from the likes of MWP/Jamison/Gasol.



#63 Majesty

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Posted March 22, 2013 - 10:58 PM

When you make threads like this one: http://lakernation.c...his-team-sucks/ you may as well be.

I STILL don't get why people are overreacting so hard. Is it last year again?


Because 4-12 with Gasol starting with Dwight an 11 point swing in 5 minutes he's in wasn't enough evidence.


Post all-star break we had one of the best home records in the NBA and the 2nd in the league in defense, first in the league our last 5 games. Gasol comes back and its an 11 point swing in 5 minutes, Jamison's efficiency was higher than Gasol's interior D wise tonight.. THAT is bad.

Its not the time to overreact and say "oh this team is so terrible"

The problem is fixable, put Gasol on the bench indefinitely as the 5 and play him sparing minutes.

We can't afford a collapse like that again, and like it or not Gasol caused it way before Kobe HAD to go into hero mode to try to save us.

Nash doesn't even want Gasol to start anymore, its been written for a while.

Yet im seeing people saying it was more Kobe's fault than Gasol for the loss... Thats funny

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#64 Japago

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Posted March 22, 2013 - 11:01 PM

Kobe got burned on a few possessions by losing sight of his man, not going to deny that, but the majority of them were due to giving help on the drive because Wall was penetrating at will off the high P&R. The high P&R in general destroyed us when they dragged either Jamison/MWP/Gasol up to cover, since Nash has no chance of containing Wall off the dribble. As a result, our defense falls apart, Kobe can't recover quickly enough to his man, and we get smacked around by the same play over and over.

 

This has basically been the story of the Lakers over the last few years. It's no different tonight. Not that Kobe hasn't declined on the defensive end, but he's not just leaving his man for no reason.


Edited by Japago, March 22, 2013 - 11:01 PM.

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#65 MrKnowItAll

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Posted March 22, 2013 - 11:14 PM

Kobe's defense could be better tonight, However he was in facilitative mode and gave 11 assists to teammates and looked in the flow, he only turned on the offensive bucket when we got down.

Kobe's points on nearly 50 percent shooting and assists and bringing us back into the game constantly takes presedence over Gasol's 2-10, 11 point swing in 5 minutes effort.

Lakers are now 4-12 with Gasol starting with Dwight.. And our defense goes from 2nd in the league since all-star break to giving up 103 against the Wizards with out biggest lack of defensive inefficiency when Gasol was on the court for 5 minutes... But Gasol has nothing to do with any of that it I'm sure... At least not as much as Kobe apparently..

/sarcasm

Bringing us back in the game? Also kobes defense was worse than mettas tonight (and that's saying a lot) and you can't say Kobe was flowing in "facilitator mode" when he had 6 turnovers.

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Posted March 22, 2013 - 11:55 PM

Now stfu.

You. Are. Stupid.


yo.


#67 last stand 2.0

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Posted March 23, 2013 - 04:37 AM

He's a power forward that can defend the pick and roll, crash the boards, and give his all on the defensive end. The polar opposite of Pau Gasol.

And we already have an athletic wing to play on the perimeter. It's just that our idiot of a head coach forgot his existence and played him only 7 minutes tonight.


I hope you don't mean Clark. He in no way is a wing at the NBA level. He is a 4 through and through
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#68 BleedPurple&Gold

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Posted March 23, 2013 - 08:21 AM

when he was on the floor he was basically playing the three when mwp was playing the four, so he is capable playing the 3, he can keep up with other SFs.


Edited by BleedPurple&Gold, March 23, 2013 - 08:24 AM.

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#69 L.A.K.E.R

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Posted March 23, 2013 - 11:48 AM

I hope you don't mean Clark. He in no way is a wing at the NBA level. He is a 4 through and through

 

We don't need him to do anything other than stick to the opposing SF. Unless it's LeBron or Durant, he'll be more than adequate. He's already been playing the 3 position when he's been out there with MWP, I don't see what the problem is.



#70 Cato

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Posted March 23, 2013 - 12:05 PM

Let me clarify what is an extremely flawed way of thinking:

 

1. It makes absolutely no difference whether Gasol starts or not - when Dwight is on the bench, Pau plays C. Just because he starts, doesn't mean he plays any less minutes with the 2nd unit.

 

2. If Metta can't spread the floor when Gasol is in, then Meeks or Clark needs to replace MWP minutes when Gasol is on the floor. It's not Pau's fault MWP can't shoot. You bench MWP so Pau can play, not the other way around.

 

3. Taking stats from tonight's game is utterly pointless, Pau only played 20 minutes and is obviously going to be working his way back into shape for the nest week or two. We lost this game with Pau on the bench.

 

Pau is going to start for however long this season last. Get used to it. It's up to D'Antoni to find a way to use him properly (see: 2009-2011 game tapes). The only other alternative is to put Pau back on the inactive list (which many people here would love) - but we're not making a deep playoff with the team that 90% of you think plays better without Pau.



#71 Cato

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Posted March 23, 2013 - 12:08 PM

WTF DOES IT MATTER IF HE STARTS OR NOT. HE PLAYED 20 [expletive]ING MINUTES. HE PLAYED MOSTLY WITH THE BENCH. Y'ALL SOUNDING DUMB AF RIGHT NOW

 

For god's sake at least there's one sane person on these boards.



#72 Cato

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Posted March 23, 2013 - 12:10 PM

what about until the point we reached the 16 point lead?

 

Exactly. All these haters love to pick and choose which stats to portray. They mention the time Pau was in when we lost a lead, but don't mention the time Pau was in when we went up by double digits. smh



#73 Cato

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Posted March 23, 2013 - 12:14 PM


Lakers last 5 games without Gasol. Holding opponents to 92.7 ppg(first in the league). Lakers first game with Gasol, gives up 103 points to the lowly Wizards who go on a run that gets them a 2 point lead after previously being down 9 in the span Gasol was in.
The Lakers are now 0-6 with their full starting lineup and lost their first game at home after 7 straight wins and a 12-1 homestand since the all-star break. #foodforthought

 

You sir are the king of selectively and misleading using stats. Pau played 20 minutes and his +/- was virtually the same as the rest of the starters. You can't use 1 game and compare it to a 5 game trend.

 

Wake the [expletive] up. 



#74 Cato

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Posted March 23, 2013 - 12:18 PM

We definitely weren't up 18 due to Pau Gasol being on the floor. Unless you're somehow insinuating that his 2-10 shooting display and horrible defense was the key to that. That 18-7 run happened with Dwight out of the game and Pau on the floor. In 5 minutes, Pau as the anchor erased our 9 point advantage and got us a 2 point deficit. That was the turning point in the game.

 

Even if I went along with you and ignored the fact Pau isn't in game shape yet, what other alternative do we have when Dwight is on the bench?

 

You, and especially Majesty seem to be implying that

 

a) We're better off having Jamison or Clark playing C when D12 sits and,

b) Metta is a better PF that Pau.

 

Good luck making a deep playoff run if those two things are true.



#75 Majesty

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Posted March 23, 2013 - 12:20 PM

+/- doesn't mean jack and isn't the be all and end all. It's been proven time and time again.

You wake up. We're 4-12 when Gasol and Dwight start together and 0-6 with Nash Pau and Dwight starting together and Blake healthy.

We are NOT a winning team with Gasol startong with Dwight, YOU wake up.

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#76 Majesty

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Posted March 23, 2013 - 12:22 PM

Even if I went along with you and ignored the fact Pau isn't in game shape yet, what other alternative do we have when Dwight is on the bench?

You, and especially Majesty seem to be implying that

a) We're better off having Jamison or Clark playing C when D12 sits and,
b) Metta is a better PF that Pau.

Good luck making a deep playoff run if those two things are true.



Since you love stats so much, Metta IS a better PF than Pau this year both offensively and defensively and efficiency wise :)

Truth hurts I know.

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#77 Cato

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Posted March 23, 2013 - 12:27 PM

+/- doesn't mean jack and isn't the be all and end all. It's been proven time and time again.

You wake up. We're 4-12 when Gasol and Dwight start together and 0-6 with Nash Pau and Dwight starting together and Blake healthy.

We are NOT a winning team with Gasol startong with Dwight, YOU wake up.

 

So you're seriously advocating only playing Pau in the 10-14 minutes that Dwight sits?



#78 L.A.K.E.R

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Posted March 23, 2013 - 12:27 PM

Even if I went along with you and ignored the fact Pau isn't in game shape yet, what other alternative do we have when Dwight is on the bench?

 

You, and especially Majesty seem to be implying that

 

a) We're better off having Jamison or Clark playing C when D12 sits and,

b) Metta is a better PF that Pau.

 

Good luck making a deep playoff run if those two things are true.

 

We're better off having a unit on the floor actually capable of working together. Pau Gasol out there with the likes of Nash/Blake/Meeks is a recipe for disaster. I'd rather we curb his minutes and relegate him to being a bench player. He doesn't deserve to see anything more than 22-24 mpg with how horrible he has been all year long on both ends of the floor.

 

And Metta actually has been a better PF than Pau this year. Not too impressive though, considering how low Pau has set the bar.



#79 Cato

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Posted March 23, 2013 - 12:28 PM

Since you love stats so much, Metta IS a better PF than Pau this year both offensively and defensively and efficiency wise :)

Truth hurts I know.

 

I mean, MWP isn't a better PF than Pau. Everyone outside this message board knows this.



#80 Cato

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Posted March 23, 2013 - 12:31 PM

We're better off having a unit on the floor actually capable of working together. Pau Gasol out there with the likes of Nash/Blake/Meeks is a recipe for disaster. I'd rather we curb his minutes and relegate him to being a bench player. He doesn't deserve to see anything more than 22-24 mpg with how horrible he has been all year long on both ends of the floor.

 

And Metta actually has been a better PF than Pau this year. Not too impressive though, considering how low Pau has set the bar.

 

If we're a better team without Pau why even play him 24 minutes? Why not just the 12 minutes when Pau is on the bench? You're being incredibly inconsistent with your logic.

 

You also didn't answer the question concerning our defense when Dwight was on the bench last night. What alternative do we have other than Pau playing C? Do you think we're better off with Jamison or Clark at C when Dwight sits? I want a straight answer.






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