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#41 Japago

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Posted February 28, 2013 - 10:34 AM

^I have no trouble trading Pau.  I do struggle with all the hate shown him in this board and the disspect shown him by the coach and to some degree by the FO.  I'm cool with trading him, if not, treat him with respect, he won us 2 rings.

 

Doesn't excuse how Pau's played this entire season and over the last 2 postseasons. Not only that, he's whined about his role this entire season. Other players have had to adjust too.

 

How has the FO treated him? They virtually denied he's being shopped this entire season. And if he is, that's part of the game. Many players play well despite being put into trade rumors. Rondo was unbelievable last season even during trade rumors.


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#42 gque24

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Posted February 28, 2013 - 10:37 AM

^Funny, of all the bonehead moves Mitch has made in the last few years, Pau's deal is one I have a hard time criticizing.  There was no indication that his skills were in decline when the deal was made and he would have commanded a max deal on the FA market.

 

He makes what, $19m?  In HINDSIGHT, it was not a shrewd move by the GM.  But it was not unreasonable for the GM to assume that Pau could still produice at a reasonable high level at age 33, when the deal ends.

 

Kobe makes $27m, and he's worth alot more than Pau, no question.  But could one argue that his contract was a bad one when the GM made it?  Pays Kobe 27m this year and 30m next year to a 35 YO guard.  No one has produced at the level Kobe has at this age, especially when you factor in the true milage on his body, which is probably the NBA equivalent of 36 or 37.  in HINDSIGHT it was a good move but was a real gamble when Mitch made it (assuming that salary pays for future performance only).  So the Lakers got lucky there, and got unlucky with Pau.  it evens out.

 

Is Kobe "worth" 27m today?  Depends on the yard stick.  Not if you measure by Lebron standards, who is making 18m today.

 

Pau is not a SuperStar does not seserve Super Star $ period even if he didnt take a huge decline in his gm. His production was lowering each new season after the Titles = it was clearly evident. He was never built for the long run. He doesnt stay in good shape & he has always played soft even when he was putting solid #s. Kobe has made the Lakers more $ than almost any1 so besides his on court production yes he deserves any contract he gets Lakers to finalize.

 

Kobe could be traded with his contract still. Pau cant until its the final season of the deal cuz no1 wants to pay him that type of $ for a role players on court production.


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#43 LakerGeezer

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Posted February 28, 2013 - 10:46 AM

^Japago, I think we are talking past each other at this point.  We agree on most of this I think.  Pau's play has sucked mostly, is that because he is unmotivated or because his skills have declned that much?  Not sure I guess.  Pau has been whining, no question.  MDA has been dismissive and disrespectful.  FO appears to have continually shopped him while denying they are doing so.  

 

It's a bad situation and time for him to go.  He could have handled it all better, but so could the Lakers.

 

If I put myself in his shoes, I was preliminarily traded to Houston last year, then seemingly shopped ever since then.  My loyalty to the team would be ... waning.  But I would still try hard, despite all that.  Unfortunately, many players dont, and will flat admit that trade rumors cause them motivational issues and greatly affect their play.  Not saying its right, but its a fact of NBA life.



#44 BasketballIQ

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Posted February 28, 2013 - 11:00 AM

Well when you construct a contract, it's based on what you want to pay an individual. When Pau got that initial contract, I winced, because I thought he was more around 15-16 M, but the Lakers are generous to guys that produce for them, especially at a championship level.

 

This new CBA is aimed at the Lakers, so Mitch and Jim and Jerry tried to trade Pau for Chris Paul and save 20 million, and we know Dwight was next.

 

That chapter is over but, it was such a brilliant move.

 

Then you have ALL the pundits saying the Lakers are "stuck" with this team and they go out over the past year and add Hill,Dwight,Nash,Jamison, and Meeks while losing Bynum,Odom,Fisher and Ramon.

 

And now they have an asset in Pau that they may trade but i'm starting to think we're ALL in for next season, because we're REALLY all in for 2014 and that FA class and getting under the cap for that one year to avoid those penalties.

 

I suspect Dwight's contract will be back loaded, if he resigns, which he likely will.

 

The bottom line is our Lakers will consist of Pau and D'Antoni next season UNLESS they find a "Kobe Bryant" we can trade Pau for a mid- first round draft pick a decent big, fast forward, and young guard



#45 Japago

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Posted February 28, 2013 - 11:01 AM

^Japago, I think we are talking past each other at this point.  We agree on most of this I think.  Pau's play has sucked mostly, is that because he is unmotivated or because his skills have declned that much?  Not sure I guess.  Pau has been whining, no question.  MDA has been dismissive and disrespectful.  FO appears to have continually shopped him while denying they are doing so.  

 

It's a bad situation and time for him to go.  He could have handled it all better, but so could the Lakers.

 

If I put myself in his shoes, I was preliminarily traded to Houston last year, then seemingly shopped ever since then.  My loyalty to the team would be ... waning.  But I would still try hard, despite all that.  Unfortunately, many players dont, and will flat admit that trade rumors cause them motivational issues and greatly affect their play.  Not saying its right, but its a fact of NBA life.

 

I blame the Lakers a lot less that you do.

 

D'Antoni didn't act up until Pau started performing poorly. He fired back after Pau complained about his role. He gave him time before he benched him.

 

If he wanted out, he should've made that request. Lamar did and got his wish. In terms of trade rumors, many people play despite that and have performed. He doesn't deserve any special treatment.

 

Pau is completely in the wrong here.


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#46 LakerGeezer

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Posted February 28, 2013 - 11:07 AM

^Pau signed his new contract in late 2009, effective for the 2010-11 season.  3 years, $57m.

 

At the time he signed, here is his production with the Lakers:

2007-8 (29 games)      19ppg, 8 rebs

2008-9                          19/10

2009-10                        18/11

 

So ... where were the indications of a dropoff that Mitch was supposed to read?

 

His stats are slightly better when he was in Memphis, but he was the #1 option there, so it's apples and oranges.



#47 BasketballIQ

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Posted February 28, 2013 - 11:17 AM

I was DONE with Pau this season, but I do think he came back healthy after the concussion and played well. In fact he played like a good offensive Center, which means LOW post work, plus he has passed at a high level, and that's about it.

 

His defense as a Center is solid. He is tall enough to block a shot but he doesn't have foot speed.

 

He played unhealthy and it was a liability at times, AND he isn't a good enough mid-range shooter to really make the Pau-Dwight fit to be great, but I do think Pau's FT shooting can be of use.

 

 

PFs outrun him now, so he HAS to be in the low-post to truly to be effective. He can't guard any quick-footed forwards, PERIOD.

But he has defensive value and when Dwight sits, he can be of use. Pau can play in spurts with Dwight , but overall they both present more value when they are on the floor separately. i actually think we could play Hill and Pau, along with Dwight and Clark or Jamison or Metta, so it's all about match-ups and coaching. Dwight talked about playing all out recently, and with all the BIGS we were supposed to have, he truly could have, but no worries.

 

 

I think a lot of people were disappointed in Pau's playoff last season, but Ibaka/Perkins had Bynum and Pau's number and I don't feel comfortable with Dwight and Clark or Jamison against those two. 

 

 

And faried is a beast. He has the potential to be better than Pau was in his prime, so I don't know if people realize how competitive the PF position has become.



#48 LakerGeezer

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Posted February 28, 2013 - 11:25 AM

^Good post BBIQ.  It't time for Pau to go.  I am no Pau apologist, just dont like seeing all the hate he gets on this board.



#49 gque24

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Posted February 28, 2013 - 11:29 AM

^Pau signed his new contract in late 2009, effective for the 2010-11 season.  3 years, $57m.

 

At the time he signed, here is his production with the Lakers:

2007-8 (29 games)      19ppg, 8 rebs

2008-9                          19/10

2009-10                        18/11

 

So ... where were the indications of a dropoff that Mitch was supposed to read?

 

His stats are slightly better when he was in Memphis, but he was the #1 option there, so it's apples and oranges.

 

his play on both sides of the ball, his post season production, his list of injuries, his age at the time


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#50 LakerGeezer

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Posted February 28, 2013 - 01:34 PM

Gque, I gave you his Lakers regular season stats, above.  At the time he signed the contract extension, he was coming off 2 Laker postseasons where he averaged basically 18 and 10.  I dont recall any inordinate criticism that his (average) defense had fallen off either.  He had just played 81 regular season games the year before and was (I think) 29 years old. 

 

Again, Mitch made an ok deal.  Pau was gonna get a max deal in the offseason from someone else.

 

Yes, a year AFTER he signed the big contract, the production starting slipping but I think he has been a fairly durable player overall, until this year, playing 65+ regular season games every year.

 

You guys keep throwing these premises out there with no factual support.



#51 Japago

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Posted February 28, 2013 - 01:51 PM

^Good post BBIQ.  It't time for Pau to go.  I am no Pau apologist, just dont like seeing all the hate he gets on this board.

 

So, it's hating to acknowledge he's been awful?

 

Nobody is saying he's always been awful. But, he's been awful this entire season and has disappeared during the postseason the last 2 seasons.

 

He earned plenty of the doubts about him from everybody else here.


Edited by Japago, February 28, 2013 - 01:52 PM.

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#52 Majesty

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Posted February 28, 2013 - 01:54 PM

Mitch was already gonna trade him and rid us of the contract at the exact point he was gonna have the major drop off.

Mitch was about to unload him and Odom at the perfect times and for all intents and purposes he did.

We can't really knock Mitch for the contract because it was going to be perfectly used along with Odoms right before both drop offs to land us CP3 which was overall a perfect move.

So I don't blame Mitch at all for it. If not for Stern we wouldn't be stuck with it.

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#53 LakerGeezer

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Posted February 28, 2013 - 02:08 PM

^Majesty, this may be the first post where we completely agree on something!



#54 gque24

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Posted February 28, 2013 - 02:33 PM

Gque, I gave you his Lakers regular season stats, above.  At the time he signed the contract extension, he was coming off 2 Laker postseasons where he averaged basically 18 and 10.  I dont recall any inordinate criticism that his (average) defense had fallen off either.  He had just played 81 regular season games the year before and was (I think) 29 years old. 

 

Again, Mitch made an ok deal.  Pau was gonna get a max deal in the offseason from someone else.

 

Yes, a year AFTER he signed the big contract, the production starting slipping but I think he has been a fairly durable player overall, until this year, playing 65+ regular season games every year.

 

You guys keep throwing these premises out there with no factual support.

 

 

Factual support is the Lakers play along with Pau's. Pau has far too many gms where his impact is not felt at all. That cant be the case when you are making that type of $.


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#55 LakerGeezer

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Posted February 28, 2013 - 03:01 PM

^Ok gque I think you are now mixing current play/ stats with play/ stats that supported the contract extension.  Obfuscation is never a good thing.

 

He's not playing well now, but he was when Mitch made the deal.  If you have some facts/ information to debate that premise, be happy to look at them.



#56 LakerGeezer

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Posted February 28, 2013 - 03:02 PM

You hate on the guy who was NEVER any good.  All I am saying is that Pau brought you 2 rings bro, that's worht something.  He does not deserve the vitrile that's being spewed about him on this board.

So, it's hating to acknowledge he's been awful?

 

Nobody is saying he's always been awful. But, he's been awful this entire season and has disappeared during the postseason the last 2 seasons.

 

He earned plenty of the doubts about him from everybody else here.



#57 Japago

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Posted February 28, 2013 - 03:29 PM

You hate on the guy who was NEVER any good.  All I am saying is that Pau brought you 2 rings bro, that's worht something.  He does not deserve the vitrile that's being spewed about him on this board.

 

He does based on how he's playing now. It's all based on right now. He's been awful, and has blamed everybody else but himself for his issues. It's completely fair to point that out. What should we do, ignore it and pretend that it's ok? He's fallen off a cliff this season. He's been awful for a long stretch now dating back to last postseason and was horrible during the postseason before that.

 

NOBODY has been saying he's been awful his entire time here. But, he's awful now. And, we talk about now by default.


Edited by Japago, February 28, 2013 - 03:33 PM.

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#58 Red September

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Posted February 28, 2013 - 04:25 PM

You guys are nuts. cant support your own players. 


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#59 Windu

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Posted February 28, 2013 - 04:36 PM

I'll support the player when he supports the team.

Pau Gasol is GONE


#60 Japago

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Posted February 28, 2013 - 04:56 PM

Yeah, I don't see the outrage at all in how Pau has been treated. And, I defended him before this season began(even though I thought he should have been traded due to fit with the team).

 

Dwight gets tons more hate with this team, and he's still having a relatively solid season statistically coming off a major back injury.


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