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#201 DanishLakerFan

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Posted February 19, 2013 - 07:21 AM

Wow.

Don't let your hate for our season's performance cloud what Dwight Howard can do for a team.

1) Dwight needs a system as much as Drew (and any other center) needs one. Dwight's best came when he had a team built around him? Drew's best season (and only all-star season) came when we ran the "four out, one in" offense that features centers.

Lucky for Drew, he was also being spoon-fed by Kobe Bryant.

If Dwight had Kobe Bryant on his team in 2009, the Orlando Magic would have won it all.

2) Drew has 2-3 more go-to moves in the post. We already knew that. Does no good, though, if one is a drop-step in the other direction, and the other is basically a jumper. Drew didn't pass out of the post, and he wasn't an excellent P&R player. Those are the differences that make up for those extra post moves that Dwight doesn't have.

Dwight was the best P&R finisher last season...with Jameer Nelson as his PG.

3) No contest, defensively. I won't even entertain the discussion. Even an 85% Howard is better, on defense, than Bynum. The rare defensive stands that Bynum did have, like his 10 blocks in the playoffs, were negated by the surrounding bad performances on that end of the court, in games before and after. If you aren't consistently good on defense, you're not an "above average" defender.

4) Bynum has done absolutely NOTHING as a primary scoring option, and he failed as a second scoring option...to the point where an injured Bryant had to attempt to carry the team through the last two seasons. Let's go ahead and mention that this was the Drew that many thought would STAY healthy.

5) The Lakers' struggles, being pinned on Howard, remind me of the Lakers' struggles being pinned on Kobe, post-Shaq and pre-Gasol. Sure, we didn't have a good team back then, but truthfully, we don't have a good TEAM right now. We don't have a defensive strategy, we don't have an offensive strategy, we don't have defense at multiple positions in the five, hardly any at all out of the five...and we don't have an aggressive PG despite his shooting percentages, don't have a willing P&R PG/C combo for whatever reason (maybe they hate each other). We don't have a good coach. We don't have good assistant coaches. We have a much-slower defender who still thinks he should be featured in an NBA offense, who stands at the three and shoots anywhere from 8-15 times a night, no matter his FG%.

Everything I've said, since October...well, this is it: you can't select an offense that features just ONE player, on a team with two superstars (Kobe and Dwight), a PG who has to have the ball in his hands (Nash), and a PF who has to have the ball in his hands to get the best out of him as a passing big (Gasol).

This team is constructed to be dominant in pick-up games, not NBA games. They don't have the shooters to open up the floor. They don't have defensive-minded players who don't have to take 10+ shots a night to matter. They don't have a bench player that is a top five candidate for sixth man of the year.

So, when you take a step back and start blaming all of this on Dwight, go ahead and look at how this team will be constructed without him, if he decides to leave this summer. Then, let me know what your projected W/L will be for the 2014 Lakers.

While you decide on that, you might as well give me the number of remaining games left in Kobe's career, once we lose Dwight. Over/under 118.

So basically what you're saying is: Dwight is better than Drew, Dwight could be a beast, our starters suck, our bench suck, our coach suck, and if Dwight doesn't re-sign this summer everything will suck. Correct?

Seriously, this is not news. What i dont understand is why you on one hand talk about how good Dwight Howard could be and on the other hand talk about how much our team sucks and how bad things will get if he leaves. If we are so bad, why on earth would Dwight even consider for a second to resign and if ownership knew this why would they keep him around?

#202 gque24

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Posted February 19, 2013 - 07:31 AM

So basically what you're saying is: Dwight is better than Drew, Dwight could be a beast, our starters suck, our bench suck, our coach suck, and if Dwight doesn't re-sign this summer everything will suck. Correct?

Seriously, this is not news. What i dont understand is why you on one hand talk about how good Dwight Howard could be and on the other hand talk about how much our team sucks and how bad things will get if he leaves. If we are so bad, why on earth would Dwight even consider for a second to resign and if ownership knew this why would they keep him around?


cuz Lakers can change their foolish ways by revamping the role players. MWP will be gone next yr along with Jamison. they just need to start getting the right type of role players who are not old washed up prior names in NBA & not injury prone or recently injured.
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#203 Windu

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Posted February 19, 2013 - 07:33 AM

Changing their "foolish ways" begins with changing the coach.

Pau Gasol is GONE


#204 gque24

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Posted February 19, 2013 - 07:41 AM

Changing their "foolish ways" begins with changing the coach.


well you know they wont swallow that pride up. after jumping gun on Coach Brown to early there is no way they can save face & look credible by getting rid of another coach in same yr while still paying him for 2-3 more years not even coaching the team. its just wasting $.
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#205 Windu

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Posted February 19, 2013 - 07:52 AM

well you know they wont swallow that pride up. after jumping gun on Coach Brown to early there is no way they can save face & look credible by getting rid of another coach in same yr while still paying him for 2-3 more years not even coaching the team. its just wasting $.


Since when has it been about $ > Winning with this franchise?

Correct the mistakes and accept the consequences of those mistakes. Doing anything else only digs a deeper hole.

Pau Gasol is GONE


#206 gque24

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Posted February 19, 2013 - 09:21 AM

Since when has it been about $ > Winning with this franchise?

Correct the mistakes and accept the consequences of those mistakes. Doing anything else only digs a deeper hole.


when you have 2 coaches at home with their feet up making $4 mill per yr for doing absolutely nothing while overpaying a lazy hippie like PJ $12 mill or more for 1 yr to coach & keep up many of same stubborn practices. How much $ would that be for coaching & lil to no coaching would be going on?

The triangle would be better suited for D12 but dont act like PJ focuses on player development nor coaching the X's & O's. he is big on philosphy.
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#207 WWBD

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Posted February 19, 2013 - 09:28 AM

The triangle would be better suited for Dwight AND Gasol. The only person it wouldn't be better for would be Nash. But he's not doing much in the current system either, now is he?

PJ's GENIUS - and it is that - is in player motivation and blending a bunch of big egos into one harmonious ecosystem. Hello! Is there anything this team needs more than that?

#208 gque24

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Posted February 19, 2013 - 09:37 AM

The triangle would be better suited for Dwight AND Gasol. The only person it wouldn't be better for would be Nash. But he's not doing much in the current system either, now is he?

PJ's GENIUS - and it is that - is in player motivation and blending a bunch of big egos into one harmonious ecosystem. Hello! Is there anything this team needs more than that?


Only 1 thing more needed: no more injuries this season & or next season.
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#209 Ham

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Posted February 19, 2013 - 09:40 AM

PJ is gone. stop.

Mike D'Antoni is GARBAGE.


#210 Tensai

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Posted February 19, 2013 - 09:51 AM

Some things work, some things don't. We fans embraced Dwight even with his "Indecision" run before the trade. Mitch and the organization embraced him. Remember what Mitch said: "One day we want to hang his (Dwight) jersey up there in the Staples Center near Wilt's, Kareem's..." You know that is a very big opportunity that few players can get. That is an honor for any player. Dwight did not embrace that. This looming 2013 FA talk kind of shaped his state of mind and actions. You know we are in same position as Cavs were, maybe even worse due to our record. Dwight can stay and become another legend, or he choose to leave in FA to pursue title (Rockets, Mavs) It was the same thing for Lebron. That uncertainty hung over the club until the very last day the decision was made. And you know what happened. Since Dwight has not shown any kind of attachment to LAKERS, I have doubts about his decision when the time comes.

This whole "Lakers can offer him more money" thing does not mean anything. If I were Dwight Howard, just based on basketball game, I'd pick Houston Rockets as my next destination. They have arguably the best SG of next 7-8 years. They have Chandler Parsons playing for only 800k ! and other talents for very cheap. Rockets can turn Asik into a really good PF if they want and you have your ace team with Dwight Howard. So considering all these things, can you imagine what Howard is thinking? He's unhappy right now. That is for sure. The injury is bugging him. Our expectations are also bugging him. You can read it from his face.

So what I am trying to say here, we don't need Dwight and Dwight doesn't need us either. This is ironically both win-win and loss-loss situation depending on the perspective. If we have a good deal in front of us right now, we should deal him away. No question about it. We can get good picks and some nice young players in return. This is way better than nothing. Remember we are still over the cap next season. Eventually one way or another, we will start over in 2014 (or maybe 2015 depending on Kobe's sitaution - his next salary etc.) There will be [expletive] loads of talent around and a lot of young good players that will come from NBA Draft. We waited for players like Kobe and Shaq to come. That drought lasted for 5 years. We are facing a similar situation now not with Magic but Kobe. Of course we do compete and try to win it all the time but [expletive] happened before and may happen again. So we need to read the situation carefully. And with Dwight, the uncertainty around him is no good for us.

Edited by Tensai, February 19, 2013 - 09:52 AM.


#211 Miggs

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Posted February 19, 2013 - 09:54 AM

Some things work, some things don't. We fans embraced Dwight even with his "Indecision" run before the trade. Mitch and the organization embraced him. Remember what Mitch said: "One day we want to hang his (Dwight) jersey up there in the Staples Center near Wilt's, Kareem's..." You know that is a very big opportunity that few players can get. That is an honor for any player. Dwight did not embrace that. This looming 2013 FA talk kind of shaped his state of mind and actions. You know we are in same position as Cavs were, maybe even worse due to our record. Dwight can stay and become another legend, or he choose to leave in FA to pursue title (Rockets, Mavs) It was the same thing for Lebron. That uncertainty hung over the club until the very last day the decision was made. And you know what happened. Since Dwight has not shown any kind of attachment to LAKERS, I have doubts about his decision when the time comes.

This whole "Lakers can offer him more money" thing does not mean anything. If I were Dwight Howard, just based on basketball game, I'd pick Houston Rockets as my next destination. They have arguably the best SG of next 7-8 years. They have Chandler Parsons playing for only 800k ! and other talents for very cheap. Rockets can turn Asik into a really good PF if they want and you have your ace team with Dwight Howard. So considering all these things, can you imagine what Howard is thinking? He's unhappy right now. That is for sure. The injury is bugging him. Our expectations are also bugging him. You can read it from his face.

So what I am trying to say here, we don't need Dwight and Dwight doesn't need us either. This is ironically both win-win and loss-loss situation depending on the perspective. If we have a good deal in front of us right now, we should deal him away. No question about it. We can get good picks and some nice young players in return. This is way better than nothing. Remember we are still over the cap next season. Eventually one way or another, we will start over in 2014 (or maybe 2015 depending on Kobe's sitaution - his next salary etc.) There will be [expletive] loads of talent around and a lot of young good players that will come from NBA Draft. We waited for players like Kobe and Shaq to come. That drought lasted for 5 years. We are facing a similar situation now not with Magic but Kobe. Of course we do compete and try to win it all the time but [expletive] happened before and may happen again. So we need to read the situation carefully. And with Dwight, the uncertainty around him is no good for us.

Yes 5 years, but it can be 2 if we don't sign Dwight. We can wait for 2014

#212 Listen2TheBeatt

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Posted February 19, 2013 - 10:40 AM

With how good Paul George is becoming, I really think the Pacers would be willing to move Granger. Mathematically, Gasol and Ebanks for Granger and Hansborough works, however I don't know if the Pacers would want Gasol with Hibbert and West playing very well this season. If we could turn it into a 3 team deal with say, Minnesota, that would be great. I would love to land Granger and a backup 5, our team would look like this:

Nash/Blake
Kobe/Meeks
Granger/Clark/Metta
Clark/Metta
Howard/Backup 5

http://espn.go.com/n...tradeId=b9jjjpl

Lakers get:
Granger
Hansborough
Stiesma

Pacers get:
Brandon Roy
Derrick Williams
JJ Barea
Chris Duhon

Wolves get:
Gasol
Ebanks
Stephenson

Lakers do it because Granger would be perfect at the 3 in our starting lineup. Hansborough is a good backup and is 3 mil off the books after the season if we dont want him, and Stiesma is a cheap backup 5 at 2.6 mil.

Pacers do it because they get out of Granger's contract and can allow George to continue to form into a star. They get Roy and his likely 5mil expiring contract, Derrick Williams who is another young, talented player that would give them great depth off the bench, and two serviceable guards. Duhon is the knock on this trade for them, but him and Barea combined will only make 16 mil over the next two years, whereas Granger is owed 26mil.

The wolves get the bet end of this deal. They get Gasol who they covet, and only have to give up Williams and Barea as, who really are only two role players on that team. Ebanks could become a decent player on a new team and they also get rid of Brandon Roy's contract. They would probably have to throw in a 1st round pick or two to make it happen, but there are reports of them being very willing to do so. Lets say they send one 1st to LA and one to IND.

So...who says no to this deal?
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#213 Real Deal

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Posted February 19, 2013 - 01:51 PM

So basically what you're saying is: Dwight is better than Drew, Dwight could be a beast, our starters suck, our bench suck, our coach suck, and if Dwight doesn't re-sign this summer everything will suck. Correct?

Where did I say our starters suck?

Seriously, this is not news. What i dont understand is why you on one hand talk about how good Dwight Howard could be and on the other hand talk about how much our team sucks and how bad things will get if he leaves. If we are so bad, why on earth would Dwight even consider for a second to resign and if ownership knew this why would they keep him around?

This isn't NBA Live 95. Chemistry matters. Offensive and defensive strategies matter.

I never said our starters suck. I said that we are playing basketball the wrong way, with who we are putting out on the court. We don't have a coach who understands anything BUT his fast-paced run-and-gun offense. He relied solely on his perimeter defenders to stop guys like Bryant in the past (Bell, Marion), and has no idea how to use a guy like Howard in the post, on offense AND defense.

Ron Artest can stay on this roster, if he's not taking 40 threes every game, and trying to play point-forward at his age by putting the ball on the floor 20 feet from the rim.

Dwight Howard can stay on this roster, if we find a way to spread the floor enough to where teams can't move 2-3 defenders over to him, fronting him, within a second...clogging the lane and making it nearly impossible for ANY big man to go to work down low.

Pau Gasol can stay on this roster (yes, even Gasol), as long as D'Antoni learns how to double post his players, and once again, that requires heavy spacing...or else all defenders will be a wingspan away from the next offensive player.

This team has been so poorly coached, it's mind-blowing. Bernie Bickerstaff directed them to go out and play basketball. That kind of coaching won't win you championships, either, but it did prove that we had enough talent on the floor -- without Nash, I may add -- to get the job done, at least on the offensive end.

Why would Howard stay? It's $30 million he'd pass up, plus an extra year, and if he's still feeling a bit shaky in his knees, he's going to do what's best for his wallet...doesn't matter what any media reports.

The only thing that worries me is the Mike D'Antoni factor. I don't think Kobe and Dwight have any issues that would run Howard out of LA. I don't think Howard and Nash have any. I don't think Howard and Buss do. Dwight and D'Antoni, though? That's a different story, and that's what will ultimately carry Howard's bags to the plane...not Kobe, Nash, the front office, or our record in April.

#214 Windu

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Posted February 19, 2013 - 03:31 PM

Pau Gasol can stay on this roster (yes, even Gasol)


You ever feel like banning yourself sometimes?

Pau Gasol is GONE


#215 Lakers4Life

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Posted February 19, 2013 - 03:47 PM

You ever feel like banning yourself sometimes?


I loled
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#216 CueTheRain

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Posted February 19, 2013 - 04:00 PM

I loled


I had a good one as well. The amount of time Windu spends and thinks about Pau is a mixture of humorous and sad. Although I do agree with his opinion on D'Antoni.

#217 Windu

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Posted February 19, 2013 - 04:16 PM

I don't think about Pau Gasol. Unfortunately, his name is still tied to this franchise.

Edited by Windu, February 19, 2013 - 04:17 PM.

Pau Gasol is GONE


#218 Ham

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Posted February 19, 2013 - 04:23 PM

Metta and MDA are the only people I truly want gone right now. Metta is just horrible. I don't even need to explain. MDA is sad excuse for a coach. He is supposed to be an offensive mastermind yet he can't establish Howard in the post and can't stop or teach us to stop going on crazy dry spurts. He was just a shadow behind a hall of fame PG like how Mike Brown was a shadow behind Lebron James...

Mike D'Antoni is GARBAGE.


#219 Real Deal

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Posted February 19, 2013 - 04:46 PM

Teams win with deficiencies. The greatest team to ever play the game, the 1996 Bulls, had just three scorers averaging double digits that season (Jordan with 30, Pippen at 19, Kukoc averaging 13), and Kukoc was their sixth man.

However, they were ranked 1st in the NBA in Offensive Rating, and 1st in the league in scoring (PPG).

So, we may not be getting enough of out Gasol on the offensive end (scoring-wise, because he's still a great passer), but we have two superstars, a PG who should still play at an all-star level, and a few contributing players (Clark, Jamison, Artest) that should EASILY make up for Gasol not scoring 15 a night.

-------

Defensively, again, let's look at the Bulls. Kukoc, Kerr, Wennington, Buchler were all poor defensive players. Harper was getting there, due to age and his knees...still defended certain players well, like Ron Artest does, but he was having more trouble with the quicker guys who were tall enough to get their shot off over him.

But none of that was a problem, because the Bulls were ranked 1st in the NBA in defense as well. Why? They had a defensive system in place. Sure, it helped that Jordan and Pippen were incredible on the defensive end, and Rodman as well...so if that's enough to disregard what they did, take a look at the Orlando Magic.

Howard's Magic were collecting awful defenders, surrounding Howard with players that fit the offense they wanted to feature him in. Take a look at almost every Magic player he had as a teammate...from Jameer Nelson to Hedo Turkoglu, Jason Richardson to Ryan Anderson, Rashard Lewis to Glen Davis...these guys were bad defensive players. Courtney Lee, Matt Barnes...and that's about it. Marcin Gortat would sub in for Dwight, and the experiment with those two in the five was a bust from the start. Yet, Orlando was in the Finals because of their defense AND Dwight's presence down low (freeing up all of the shooters along the perimeter in the SAME offense we played in last season, with Drew as our big man).

Every team has holes. Teams are molded to make up for what they lack. We can't do that, because we don't have an identity. We don't have a coach who understands what these players need to do, what offense suits them best, what defense even is, and how to get into these players' heads without blasting them through the media.

#220 TheOriginalCZM

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Posted February 19, 2013 - 04:56 PM

The Lakers aren't ready for somebody like Rondo....let's just keep signing players that's at the peak or just about over the hill of their prime. *sarcasm*/ but seriously.




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