Jump to content




Photo

Looking deep into our team's performance so far, and our future

Kobe Lakers Dwight Nash Gasol

  • Please log in to reply
192 replies to this topic

#101 GCMD

GCMD

    All-Star

  • 6,887 posts
  • Joined: Jul 25, 2008
  • Fav. Laker:Magic Johnson

Posted January 27, 2013 - 09:15 PM

Why so bad on defense?


No defensive coach...start there, buddy. If not, you're wasting everyone's time.

Long misses cause fast breaks we can't defend.


Partly true but not entirely. I've covered that.

Turnovers do the same thing.


Also a factor...but playing "pick-up" defense against NBA offenses kinda makes it HARD to play well or consistently on that end.

It's amazing that NOT HAVING A DEFENSIVE COACH isn't at the TOP of your reasons why we are playing bad defense...

Oh, I forgot again:

Nash SUCKS, Fire MDA. That's the answer for EVERYTHING, right?

We complain about fouls, and don't get back in time. We have absolutely no defensive strategy for guard penetration (leading guards to the paint or baseline, into Dwight) or for pick and roll situations (over/under, knowing when to switch, etc).


Duh...that's called not having a defensive coach...which is THE reason for our defensive struggles...

We have two weak links in our starting five (Nash, Gasol...basically, Pau is a starter, since he plays big minutes) and multiple from our bench (Jamison and Meeks notably horrible).


Nash SUCKS, Fire MDA.

We are old, but we TRY to play like we're young.


False. Covered ad naseum above.

In 2008 and 2010, the Boston Celtics were old...and played that way. Strategically. In 2011, the Dallas Mavericks did the same thing, and won it all.


Ok...but we aren't pushing the tempo. We aren't taking a lot of shots early in the shot clock. What are you trying to prove? (poorly, I might add)

The following year (just last year), the Miami Heat were old compared to a fresh, young Oklahoma City Thunder team...and, yet, they realized that LeBron's post game, spreading the floor with three-point shooters, and not allowing the Thunder to ignite breaks, was going to put a ring on their fingers.


OLD? LOL...those same 3pointers are the main reason for increased pace...yet for that reason, they played "older" than OKC?

SMH...

And don't make me compare the ages of MIA's key players and OKC's...they are not nearly as far apart as you want to contend. What made the difference was the CHAMPIONSHIP and NBA FINALS experience of Wade and LBJ, not their ages (in reference to ability to run).

If we're playing without an identity, we are playing without effort.


We HAVE an identity. It's the vision of the coach.

KOBE is playing the way HE wants to play and IGNORING what the rest of the team and coach wants. MDA has said it. Nash has said it. Dwight has said it. Pau has said it. MWP has said it. I've said it. You ignore it. It's easier to ignore it than accept that Kobe-Ball is hurting the Lakers...

Nash Sucks, Fire MDA.

Rotations are broken.


They can't be fixed until the team consistently runs the offense. You can't figure out how to fix an engine by turning the key for half a second. You have to let it run for a little while, take readings and figure out what's working and what's not.

Once we get this team to COMMIT to the offense full time, we can start to find things that work and things that don't. It's not fair to ask ask a Lamborghini Mechanic to figure out how to fix proprietary FORD engines and tech overnight...that's what you're asking MDA to do.

Once we get this TEAM on the same page, adjustments can be made and rotations can be identified/solidified.

But, Nash SUCKS, Fire MDA.


How many minutes will Jodie Meeks log next game? Will Jamison play the three or four? Will Darius Morris or Chris Duhon be our backup point guard?


See above. The COACH is trying to ADJUST to the team we're PLAYING...that's a GOOD thing, especially since we are so inconsistent and LACK an identity to live by, stick to, force upon other teams.

The 2010-11 Miami Heat ran through this, head first, for 17 games...and then they decided to change their offense. Once they adjusted, they went 21-1 over their next 22 games.


And Riley told that team to COMMIT to Spoelstra because he wasn't going anywhere. And LBJ PASSES the ball. Wade PASSES the ball. The team had a LOT LESS to adjust to. They all wanted to play together from the START. That wasn't an obstacle like it is for the LAKERS and KOBE.

Everyone is talking about chemistry and sharing the ball. Wonder who they are talking about?

When Kobe PASSES, the Lakers WIN.

What would 21-1 do for us at this point? Do the math...38-26...64 games, 6th in the Western Conference.


And that's possible...If this team just buys into the coach's vision and trust the offense...

Unfortunately, the Lakers don't give us any indication that they are going to change, and it could be this way for the next three seasons.


No, my friend. Is KOBE going to change? I see indications that he KNOWS he should pass more.

Will that fix everything? Absolutely not. But will it be a MAJOR step in the right direction. AB-SO-LUTELY.

If we lose Dwight this year, we go into the 2013-14 season with roughly $59 million dedicated to JUST Kobe, Gasol and Nash. That's the salary cap, ladies and gents. No free agents for us. If our plan is to let Gasol expire after next season (which will be an unforgettable one, for all the wrong reasons), we will have a Kobe/Nash squad...and that's if Kobe decides to extend (and with how these next 1 1/2 seasons could go, he'd consider retirement). Nash will be months away from 41 years old in the fall of 2014. Think about that.


And the ONLY reason Dwight doesn't re-sign is Kobe Bean Bryant. Think about that.

Nash SUCKS, Fire MDA.

We have made multiple mistakes over the years, from giving away large contracts to a couple of coaches (who clearly didn't fit here) and trading away draft picks (and making bad picks), to keeping Pau Gasol until his knees rust away and playing four entirely different offenses from May 2012 to January 2013. Instead of building a solid team around our two superstars, we have asked our two superstars to adjust to a 39-year old point guard that is playing like he's 39 years old (imagine that).


Nash SUCKS, Fire MDA.

Do the Knicks center their offense around Jason Kidd, or Sheed in the post? Boston is under .500 because three of their best are 35-36 years old, and the offense runs through them (especially Pierce and Garnett). If it wasn't for Rondo, and the fact that they are familiar with each other, they would be a disaster.


Irrelevant if we start to play together now.

The Spurs have stacked young players around their two oldest (Duncan and Manu), and Duncan is having an incredible season, regardless.


And DUNCAN is one of the most unselfish players in NBA HISTORY. Ask Kobe to pass as much as Duncan or take a pay cut to give his franchise money to KEEP signing YOUNG players...

Kobe - 27.8 Mil/yer
Duncan - 9.6 Mil/year

So when you want to talk about other teams, realize that SACRIFICES were made to accomplish those things...not just "magic".

Dark times are ahead of us, if we don't play our cards right. As of now, our record in April isn't the biggest concern. Someone, whether it's Jerry or Jim, Mitch, or Jeanie reading from a hand-written note from one of them, needs to speak up and admit there have been crucial mistakes made to rebound from our preseason blunder, and with that recognition should come major changes as soon as possible.


Basically:

Nash SUCKS, Fire MDA...

You could have summed up this entire post with those 4 words and saved us ALL a lot of time.

If not, we're heading in the same direction Boston is...but without a Rajon Rondo...and with the Clippers having the potential to rip away all of our free agent prospects, rebuilding may not be a pretty sight.


Only in your mind...

Wake up people. Don't just blindly follow this dude. He has his agenda and it has NOTHING to do with the "team" or what's best for the Lakers.

This team was built to play well together and not rely on any one player to carry the load. The Front office envisions good BASKETBALL being played, not kowtowing to a SuperStar. The COACH sees this team as being IMPOSSIBLE to guard because there is just too much firepower once they learn to share the ball. This TEAM is best when we IGNORE the stat sheet and play for each other.

That's the POSITIVE message Nash and Dwight keep trying to spread and it's the exact OPPOSITE message Kobe Zealots want you to hear. Forget pecking orders. Forget ISOLATIONS. Forget SUPerSTARS. Forget MVPs. We can make HISTORY by playing together, playing FOR each other.


That's where I stand. That's what I see. But for Real Deal, it's all: Nash SUCKS, Fire MDA...

Good luck with that, my friends. That's poison. Drink that KoolAid at your own peril.

#102 ツ  

ツ  

    All-Star

  • 5,734 posts
  • Joined: Jul 09, 2010
  • Location:California
  • Fan Since:2003
  • Fav. Laker:Kobe Bryant

Posted January 27, 2013 - 09:18 PM

oh me oh my.

#103 GCMD

GCMD

    All-Star

  • 6,887 posts
  • Joined: Jul 25, 2008
  • Fav. Laker:Magic Johnson

Posted January 27, 2013 - 09:26 PM

Just thinking of this but everyone remembers that Mitch & Jim gave D'Antoni the "vote of confidence" in a meeting Thursday right?

Well is it a coincidence that this team is playing essentially a different, inside out system since that meeting?

Makes me wonder if it was actually a "vote of confidence" meeting or a "adjust your system for these players or you're gone" meeting.


Don't think so. I think it's connected more to Kobe passing the ball on a regular basis which energizes teammates because you play harder when you're getting easy scores.

It all starts with the team buying into the vision of the coach.

#104 GCMD

GCMD

    All-Star

  • 6,887 posts
  • Joined: Jul 25, 2008
  • Fav. Laker:Magic Johnson

Posted January 27, 2013 - 09:30 PM

We haven't pushed the ball at a breakneck pace the last two games so energy shouldn't be an issue. We've slowed the game down, worked Kobe more in the post and in isolation, and we're not compromising our transition defense with long misses like before. If Kobe is playing out of the block and posting up, it doesn't take up nearly as much energy as before when we were forced to Iso him at the end of terrible possessions.

The more we slow the game down, the better it is for this team.


We have NEVER pushed the tempo like MDA's PHO teams. This team has NEVER really run. Long shots, long rebounds. Turnovers/bad transition defense. Those are the biggest factors in our pace stat.

As for Kobe playing in the post...NO. He should and can move off the ball more. When he gets the ball, he needs to attack or move the ball. Him stopping and clearing out is counter-productive and not good for the offense.

The offense is a free-flowing offense.

We can't have one rule/offense for Kobe and another completely different rule/offense for the rest of the team.

#105 GCMD

GCMD

    All-Star

  • 6,887 posts
  • Joined: Jul 25, 2008
  • Fav. Laker:Magic Johnson

Posted January 27, 2013 - 09:33 PM

This is pretty much the answer.

What would help even more? If we had a PG that could play defense, so Kobe doesn't have to chase around someone like Westbrook all game long.

Although, I will put this out there...nobody in the NBA, in the last five years, has defended Westbrook better than #24.


WHAT?

Kobe's ALWAYS guarded the BEST PERIMETER PLAYER. Only times he DIDN'T were when we had ARIZA or the younger MWP.

We have NEVER had a good defensive PG. So now, Nash is the problem?

SMH.

#106 Windu

Windu

    Shatterpoint

  • 43,198 posts
  • Joined: Apr 24, 2009
  • Name:Will
  • Fan Since:1999
  • Fav. Laker:Kobe

Posted January 27, 2013 - 09:37 PM

I do not buy the vision of this coach.

Pau Gasol is GONE


#107 bfc1125roy

bfc1125roy

    Superstar

  • 4,047 posts
  • Joined: Dec 10, 2011
  • Fan Since:2004
  • Fav. Laker:Kobe Bryant

Posted January 27, 2013 - 09:41 PM

:snack:

#108 GCMD

GCMD

    All-Star

  • 6,887 posts
  • Joined: Jul 25, 2008
  • Fav. Laker:Magic Johnson

Posted January 27, 2013 - 09:42 PM

For one, you do realize that's the last time you're going to tell these members to think for themselves, right? I hope you understand that much.

And, ah yeah, I don't even like Dwight Howard. All of those times I called him the best center in the game, I was just kidding! You got me there. My hate for Howard is glaring now.

:clap2:

By the way, would you like me to go find my posts about how Steve Nash IS THE BEST JUMPSHOOTER IN NBA HISTORY at his position, and possibly of all-time? Would you like for me to show you where I've said that he deserved one of those MVP awards, for how well he led his Phoenix Suns team? Do you want me to go that route, and prove that I'm not biased, and make you look foolish? I think you know how fun that can get, dude...remember?

Hey, all of you that liked my initial post...you're all just sheep, says this guy. You can't think for yourselves.

So, he's going to tell you how things REALLY go in this league. He's going to bring his coaching and playing experience in HERE, to put down the hammer and tell you what's up.


Let me go ahead and type for you:


Go ahead, buddy...you have the floor. Copy/paste everything I wrote above, if you'd like.

EDIT: I just realized something. You keep referring to these people as mindless sheep (basically), saying they can't think for themselves OR they just choose not to...yet, you're encouraging them to listen to you babble on for a massive wall of a post about how successful this Lakers team can be under a Nash-led offense.

But that's really not what it's about, right? It's not about them gaining knowledge, it's about you not feeling like you're completely and utterly wrong. Why else would you post something like that?

I've been wrong before. I wanted Garnett and Jermaine O'Neal over Gasol. Oh, it S-U-C-K-S being wrong...so I know why your neck gets so hot when you watch these games, come in here and read what I have to say.

And you know the best thing about all of this is? I never, not once, went through and quoted 5-6 posts of yours throughout this season...never did that to brag. Never bumped topics and ridiculed you. Never questioned you as a Lakers fan...but did you question me? Most certainly. You say I'm not a Lakers fan, more of a Kobe fan that doesn't give a damn about the team.

Now, you're basically pointing out the faults of this community for agreeing with me (for the most part). You didn't do this when you wanted to give Bynum mulitple chances, did you? I'm really not sure...don't think you resorted to this.

You're defeated. You were back in October. You question this community...do you question the plethora of writers who are waiting for a Kyle Lowry trade, or who were digging into any information leading to the possible firing of D'Antoni?

How many Kobe trade rumors have you heard, anyway?

Dwight trade rumors are stemmed from him not wanting to come back to this team because of how bad we are this season. Latest was, his camp was "all-in" on Phil Jackson, and that he was worried about D'Antoni's arrival.

What are you truly going to say? Are you going to tell a five-time champion to become a role player? Are you going to suggest that a 39-year old PG should attempt to lead this team to a championship? Are you going to convince everyone that this franchise should support Kobe, Dwight, Gasol AND Jamison changing their games for one player who hasn't won an MVP in almost a decade AND went through three of his last four seasons in Phoenix under 50 wins, his last putting up numbers that proved to be his lowest since his early years with the Mavs?

Good luck. I won't read, but thanks for reading mine.


I couldn't get thru this post because first and foremost, me telling them to think for themselves is not an insult, it's a statement. A statement I'm entitled to make because I can back up why what you've said doesn't make sense on it's face. I can tell them how you and your agenda doesn't explain most of the things you are saying.

I believe that if anyone asked themselves the easy questions about your statements, most would not laud them.

I really, REALLY don't care if you read this or anything else I write. What I will say from here until I'm not here any more is this team needs to play together before they can figure out what won't work. Have they done that? No.

Until they do, your speculation, preference, rants and agenda don't hold water.

TEAM over INDIVIDUAL. That's me. What's you?

#109 GCMD

GCMD

    All-Star

  • 6,887 posts
  • Joined: Jul 25, 2008
  • Fav. Laker:Magic Johnson

Posted January 27, 2013 - 09:46 PM

And it's so precious that you think I hate Kobe Bryant...LOL...sorry...couldn't be farther from the truth.

I do know that in this offense and with this team/coach, he can't and shouldn't play the way he has. Why? He HAD to play that way before...he DOES NOT have to play that way now.

Kobe Ball is NOT basketball.

Don't believe me? When Kobe passes, the Lakers win. That's all I need to prove my point. Lakers over ANY ONE PLAYER.

#110 MDI

MDI

    Jesus Fan

  • 35,951 posts
  • Joined: Jul 24, 2008
  • Location:Irvine
  • Fav. Laker:Kobe Bryant

Posted January 27, 2013 - 09:55 PM

Im a little worried we might see a repeat of the 2011 season...like we put an incredible amount of energy into a long winning streak to get a high seed in the playoffs but it wore Kobe and the rest of the guys out like crazy. They got hurt in the process and were unable to recover quickly and we got whacked in the playoffs against a Dallas team whom we owned in the regular season. I like that Nash and Kobe are playing less minutes, Im not sure Steve Blake returning is the answer to lessening their minutes, hopefully we pick up Delonte West or make a trade for another PG/SG combo guard guy. THe first 2 minutes to start the 4th today was huge with Kobe and Nash rested and Meeks gave us 5 points and a stop in the other end. It buys us time. Hope we shore up the backcourt position because we need one more playmaker out in the perimeter who can take some shots late in the clock and can help you get stops. That would be a huge shot in the arm for this team.

9u6kvo.png

 

Props to sidthekid871


#111 stillshining

stillshining

    Rookie

  • 711 posts
  • Joined: Aug 26, 2012
  • Name:Adam
  • Fan Since:1993
  • Fav. Laker:Slava Medvedenko

Posted January 27, 2013 - 09:56 PM

Lol this article really seems to make it's stance clear, D'antoni's offense has been ditched and the Lakers seem to be playing their best ball of the year.
http://espn.go.com/b...offense-ditched

#112 David

David

    Hall Of Fame

  • 9,244 posts
  • Joined: Dec 10, 2010

Posted January 27, 2013 - 09:58 PM

To be fair, the Lakers have been playing like a team for the past two games. It all started when they are running the offense through Kobe instead of Nash. Lets hope it continues.

KOBE. #VINO. BRYANT.


#113 Majesty

Majesty

    Luol Deng's cousin is awesome. Thanks for the pizza!!

  • 40,935 posts
  • Joined: Dec 11, 2011
  • Name:Jay
  • Fan Since:1987
  • Fav. Laker:Kobe present, Magic past

Posted January 27, 2013 - 10:03 PM

Nash has said himself that he likes playing off ball with Kobe and Dwight because of the defensive attention he gathers and his ability to break down the defense and it also gets him more shots allowing him to be more aggressive. There's a reason Kobe has had 14 assists the last 2 games. Because it isn't Nash trying to find Kobe open it's Dwight and Kobe finding Nash(a better shooter) for open shots and it also allows Nash to attack iso more often and end plays more often than initiate them

Nash prefers this kind of play and PnR SOME of the time with himself but he has been very open how much more effective Kobe is in the pick and roll because of the defensive attention he gathers and his ability to break down defenses.

Did you realize how when Kobe is the main ball handler when the shotclock is midway through after breaking down the defense who gets the ball near the end of the shotclock? Nash does! And he breaks down through the openings Kobe made.

This is why Nash does NOT want the Lakers to run PnR through HIM primarily. Nash has said this all the way back to the beginning of the season! As to why he backed Mike Brown. Nash said back then(when no one would listen) that he only wanted to run pick and roll through him as a "fall back" plan if a play is broken. But near everyone that was dissing Brown was saying that Nash didn't really mean those words despite Nash intentionally not running PnR though Brown gave him the freedom too whenever he wanted.

Nash knew the team wouldn't find much success running PnR through mainly him.

He was RIGHT. And now when Kobe is main facilitator Nash is beyond happy because of that as he has said it.

Nash said it when Brown was here that he didn't want to be the main PnR option when Brown was here. But he was just being "polite" and it was Brown's fault he wasn't PnRing eventhough Nash constantly said he was not PnRing intentionally.

And now Nash is playing off-ball to Kobe and talking about how wonderful it is and how happy that Kobe is main facilitator now because it makes breaking down defenses that much easier and allows him to score more which he also wants.

Nash has been saying this since the beginning of the season. And the evidence has been there.

Is Wayne Brady gonna have to Djokovic? - Robert Flores


#114 MiguelSanchez

MiguelSanchez

    Rookie

  • 128 posts
  • Joined: Jun 19, 2010
  • Name:Mike
  • Fan Since:1989
  • Fav. Laker:Mike Penberthy

Posted January 27, 2013 - 10:08 PM

So the Lakers play pretty good defense (based on the excellent "coaching" by saying "we gotta defend better" over and over) and ditch the run and gun, throw the ball around offense for a post-heavy offense, and the win two good games. They're playing like they did under Bickerstaff, that is, when they had no coach. D'Antoni could take the rest of the year off, and the Lakers would probably sneak into the playoffs.

Unfortunately that will probably save his job. Hopefully Dwight will re-sign anyway because of the "promise" they can show over the rest of the season, but still there's a big chance he leaves because while he can deal with Kobe, he can't deal with a coach who has never liked his game.

This style will be good during the regular season, but in the playoffs you need to make adjustments from game to game. Phil was one of the best at doing that, and thoroughly out-coached D'Antoni with inferior talent. D'Antoni has taken 2 months to realize his offense doesn't work with this team. Unless the Lakers bring in a really good defensive coordinator (a la Thibodeau under Doc) they're going nowhere in the playoffs.

#115 Real Deal

Real Deal

    Legend

  • 14,924 posts
  • Joined: Jun 29, 2008
  • Location:Kansas
  • Name:Brandon
  • Fav. Laker:Kobe

Posted January 27, 2013 - 10:41 PM

LOL.

I read a couple of sentences...that's it. Put that on my life. Sorry.

To clarify something, and to basically make everything you said irrelevant...Nash and D'Antoni are good for this team, as long as they agree to play through the two superstars...like they have decided to do.

Majesty, I know you remember I was supportive of Nash coming here as long as Dwight was in the mix as well, and as long as we played through Kobe and Howard. Everyone remembers that, lol.

Hope you enjoyed that Thunder game, by the way. 17 points and 5 assists for Nash??? Perfect...and damn, that's near what I expected of him from another topic earlier (I may have said something like 14 points and 6-7 assists, being what he SHOULD be getting).

Pretty cool.

Ah, I did see a sentence in another post, about defense. Already touched on every single thing you said, including turnovers causing breaks (and TOs are an offensive stat, by the way...hard to expect D12 to hold the ball when the defense can easily collapse on him due to a pathetic ass offense). So...yeah.

Again, I'm glad you read every word. Unfortunately, I'm not going to do the same when my quick glances catch "Nash sucks, fire MDA" after all of your sentences.

Maybe it'll happen for you some other time. My apologies.

#116 LakeShow805

LakeShow805

    Superstar

  • 7,888 posts
  • Joined: Jun 13, 2011
  • Location:Cali
  • Name:Tyler
  • Fan Since:2000
  • Fav. Laker:The mamba

Posted January 27, 2013 - 10:45 PM

GCMD.....All you say is Nash sucks and Fire MD.

Oh and lakers are playing off the two game of Kobe and Dwight and look what happens....we have won two in a row against quality opponents. Much better than MD's crappy system in the beginning

"No Justice. No Peace. Jail the Racist Police!"


#117 West Coast

West Coast

    LN Senior Editor

  • 21,428 posts
  • Joined: Jul 31, 2008
  • Location:California
  • Fav. Laker:Kobe Bryant

Posted January 27, 2013 - 10:48 PM

Leave GCMD alone guys, after all it took him a couple hours to respond to a single post. I applaud him for his response, which was beautifully articulated I might add.

#118 ツ  

ツ  

    All-Star

  • 5,734 posts
  • Joined: Jul 09, 2010
  • Location:California
  • Fan Since:2003
  • Fav. Laker:Kobe Bryant

Posted January 27, 2013 - 10:52 PM

Leave GCMD alone guys, after all it took him a couple hours to respond to a single post. I applaud him for his response, which was beautifully articulated I might add.

tis.

#119 LakeShow805

LakeShow805

    Superstar

  • 7,888 posts
  • Joined: Jun 13, 2011
  • Location:Cali
  • Name:Tyler
  • Fan Since:2000
  • Fav. Laker:The mamba

Posted January 27, 2013 - 10:54 PM

Leave GCMD alone guys, after all it took him a couple hours to respond to a single post. I applaud him for his response, which was beautifully articulated I might add.

:clap2:

"No Justice. No Peace. Jail the Racist Police!"


#120 Majesty

Majesty

    Luol Deng's cousin is awesome. Thanks for the pizza!!

  • 40,935 posts
  • Joined: Dec 11, 2011
  • Name:Jay
  • Fan Since:1987
  • Fav. Laker:Kobe present, Magic past

Posted January 27, 2013 - 11:00 PM

Nash understands that playing off ball with Kobe and Dwight is the best option for him and running PnR sometimes.

This is why he has wanted to. The only reason he ran PnR main option was because D'antoni asked him to. But now that its gotten through to D'antoni that its best to play Nash off ball, Nash has never been happier.

Is Wayne Brady gonna have to Djokovic? - Robert Flores






Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: Kobe, Lakers, Dwight, Nash, Gasol

2 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 2 guests, 0 anonymous users