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Looking deep into our team's performance so far, and our future

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#21 Piston Honda

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Posted January 24, 2013 - 11:02 PM

And they gave enough time for the coach to wrap things up, maybe he doesn't have the perfect personnel but don't spit lies when you say "Its a perfect fit" prior to hiring ..

If the team is improving but still losing then you might have an argument , but their worse than my grandma in 2k,,


and besides, would you take the risk not to make a change that MIGHT shake this team up when you are paying over 100 milly ?

if Utah won that would be 2-11.. Not sure whats worse, Joey Crawford's call in suns and blazers game in 2010 or this team ..

Pau is still a Laker after 2 post season no-shows and D'Antoni is still patrolling the sidelines. What does that tell you about the way the Lakers FO is thinking?

#22 Drazard

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Posted January 24, 2013 - 11:07 PM

Long read, hope you sit down and look it over, though. :basketball:

Well, eventually, my confidence in this team collapsed. I've been spitting the same thing about D'Antoni and Nash since September or October (mostly Nash, until D'Antoni arrived, and then I was in full panic mode). When this happens, you can always expect a write-up from me, right?

Took me a bit, but I figured it would be great to go in and see just how each of these coaches have done. I realize the first two played just five games each, but if that bothers you, ignore that and just take a glance at D'Antoni's numbers.

------------------------------------

The team is 12-12 without Nash this season.

Our original starting five (Kobe, Howard, Nash, Gasol, Artest) is 0-5 together.

Mike Brown Era (1-4, Nash for two games, both L's)
Lakers: 47.0% FG, 34.8% 3PT (18.4 3PTA/G), 66.3% FT, 44.6 RPG, 19.6 APG, 8.0 SPG, 5.0 BPG, 18.2 TO, 21.4 PF, 97.2 PPG
Opponent: 44.7% FG, 35.6% 3PT, 22.8 FTA/G, 35.4 RPG, 21.0 APG, 9.6 SPG, 5.2 BPG, 12.4 TO, 24.2 PF, 98.8 PPG

Bernie Bickerstaff Era (4-1, no Nash)
Lakers: 45.6% FG, 34.2% 3PT (22.8 3PTA/G), 72.1% FT, 49.0 RPG, 23.0 APG, 7.4 SPG, 6.8 BPG, 14.8 TO, 14.2 PF, 103.8 PPG
Opponent: 42.2% FG, 33.3% 3PT, 15.6 FTA/G, 40.8 RPG, 22.2 APG, 8.8 SPG, 4.4 BPG, 13.4 TO, 22.6 PF, 92.2 PPG

Mike D'Antoni Era (12-20, Nash for 16 games, 11 L's)
Lakers: 45.0% FG, 35.7% 3PT (26.2 3PTA/G), 69.8% FT, 44.3 RPG, 21.8 APG, 7.1 SPG, 5.6 BPG, 14.5 TO, 19.3 PF, 102.9 PPG
Opponent: 45.8% FG, 35.9% 3PT, 21.4 FTA/G, 44.0 RPG, 24.2 APG, 8.1 SPG, 5.2 BPG, 12.9 TO, 23.1 PF, 103.4 PPG

I've highlighted the concerning numbers in red...all being the lowest among the three coaches.

It's clear we are a worse defensive team with D'Antoni...by quite a bit. We allow teams to play at a faster pace, and PART of that is us launching more threes every night, and taking shots early in the clock.

Our Pace Factor (number of possessions in 48 minutes) is second in the NBA, at a staggering 94.7. For a team that has four of five original starters in their thirties (Kobe, Nash, Gasol, Artest are all out of their ultimate primes), that's a super-fast pace. But what do you expect with a D'Antoni/Nash-led offense?

Well, unfortunately, when we run...the opposing team runs. That's how it goes. D'Antoni was quoted saying that the Memphis Grizzlies outran us tonight.

Do you want to know what the Grizzlies' Pace Factor is? It's 28th in the league.

------------------------------------

Steve Nash is a major defensive liability. Because he can't defend his man, Kobe Bryant is having to spend more energy defending PG's. That means less help defense by the best help defender on our team, other than Dwight Howard. And with less help defense comes more defensive exposing, all directed at Pau Gasol and Antawn Jamison...who are awful defenders.

Pau Gasol can't post up with Dwight? Yes he can. Run a double-post motion offense. It doesn't work? Gasol doesn't need to be two feet from the rim...he can take short jumpers off the block, or make passes out of the low post, all while Dwight maintains his position. Ah, and that gives us two offensive rebounders near the rim.

We don't have shooters? We would have a lethal shooter, if Nash (who is a 50/40/90 shooter and arguably the greatest shooter we've ever seen at the PG position) would take just a few more shots a night, playing off of two superstars (Kobe and Howard). He could settle for a 5-8 assist night, correct? I'm appalled to find out that this offensive genius can't adjust accordingly.

So with two threats from outside (Nash and Artest), how does that help our pick and roll? Significantly, especially if Nash establishes himself as a shooting threat. Why? Well, why would any player, in their right mind, leave him open to follow Howard to the rim? Why would any player leave Howard for a split second? Confusion is best generated by two scoring threats in that particular P&R situation. If Nash doesn't solidify himself as a threat, it's an easier decision for the opponent.

Where can Kobe play once one of our bigs take a seat? In the post. Can't do that in a D'Antoni offense, though, because he's not a ball-handler UNLESS he's in ISO on the perimeter.

Meanwhile, what is Nash doing when Kobe engages? Nothing. He doesn't cut to and through to the corner, he doesn't use a screen, he doesn't curl...so we basically play one half of the court, and weak side play ceases to exist (Kobe's perspective).

We go without multiple shooting threats, we lose spacing. We lose spacing, our two superstars are much, much easier to defend. Howard becomes easier to front in the post with multiple players...not so hard to slide 5-10 feet over and cover him with backside help. Kobe has a man on him AND one within two steps of a charge. In pick and roll, the opposing team can come out and push Nash 30 feet from the rim, simply because Dwight Howard is not a shooting threat, Nash doesn't establish himself as one, and Gasol is too slow to roll to the rim, as well as him being passive and choosing not to score.

The result? Ron Artest becomes our secondary scoring option...and to no one's surprise (maybe), he's shooting threes, not in the post. Kobe is strictly in ISO most of the game, once the ball comes to him. Dwight is being fronted, and because he has lost a bit of jumping ability, and because the spacing is horrible, he can't get the ball over the top. Once that ball reaches its peak elevation, and headed towards Dwight's fingertips, the opposing defenders are taught to lead him close to the baseline OR pack around him in the paint, then go "hands out" to cause the strip and prevent him from bringing the ball over his head.

We are scoring buckets on the offensive end, and our Offensive Rating is in the top 10. That doesn't mean we're a good offensive team, it means we're relying on Kobe far too much. Bryant should not have to play 40 minutes, score 30 points, and throw 5-6 assists for us to be within reach in some of these games. Our offense is not good if Ron Artest is our second scoring option, and he is shooting more shots per game (11.1) than Dwight (10.3) and Nash (8.3), and as many as Gasol (11.3). Yes, no joke...this is happening.

Why so bad on defense? Long misses cause fast breaks we can't defend. Turnovers do the same thing. We complain about fouls, and don't get back in time. We have absolutely no defensive strategy for guard penetration (leading guards to the paint or baseline, into Dwight) or for pick and roll situations (over/under, knowing when to switch, etc). We have two weak links in our starting five (Nash, Gasol...basically, Pau is a starter, since he plays big minutes) and multiple from our bench (Jamison and Meeks notably horrible).

We are old, but we TRY to play like we're young. In 2008 and 2010, the Boston Celtics were old...and played that way. Strategically. In 2011, the Dallas Mavericks did the same thing, and won it all. The following year (just last year), the Miami Heat were old compared to a fresh, young Oklahoma City Thunder team...and, yet, they realized that LeBron's post game, spreading the floor with three-point shooters, and not allowing the Thunder to ignite breaks, was going to put a ring on their fingers.

If we're playing without an identity, we are playing without effort. Rotations are broken. How many minutes will Jodie Meeks log next game? Will Jamison play the three or four? Will Darius Morris or Chris Duhon be our backup point guard? The 2010-11 Miami Heat ran through this, head first, for 17 games...and then they decided to change their offense. Once they adjusted, they went 21-1 over their next 22 games.

What would 21-1 do for us at this point? Do the math...38-26...64 games, 6th in the Western Conference.

Unfortunately, the Lakers don't give us any indication that they are going to change, and it could be this way for the next three seasons. If we lose Dwight this year, we go into the 2013-14 season with roughly $59 million dedicated to JUST Kobe, Gasol and Nash. That's the salary cap, ladies and gents. No free agents for us. If our plan is to let Gasol expire after next season (which will be an unforgettable one, for all the wrong reasons), we will have a Kobe/Nash squad...and that's if Kobe decides to extend (and with how these next 1 1/2 seasons could go, he'd consider retirement). Nash will be months away from 41 years old in the fall of 2014. Think about that.

We have made multiple mistakes over the years, from giving away large contracts to a couple of coaches (who clearly didn't fit here) and trading away draft picks (and making bad picks), to keeping Pau Gasol until his knees rust away and playing four entirely different offenses from May 2012 to January 2013. Instead of building a solid team around our two superstars, we have asked our two superstars to adjust to a 39-year old point guard that is playing like he's 39 years old (imagine that). Do the Knicks center their offense around Jason Kidd, or Sheed in the post? Boston is under .500 because three of their best are 35-36 years old, and the offense runs through them (especially Pierce and Garnett). If it wasn't for Rondo, and the fact that they are familiar with each other, they would be a disaster. The Spurs have stacked young players around their two oldest (Duncan and Manu), and Duncan is having an incredible season, regardless.

Dark times are ahead of us, if we don't play our cards right. As of now, our record in April isn't the biggest concern. Someone, whether it's Jerry or Jim, Mitch, or Jeanie reading from a hand-written note from one of them, needs to speak up and admit there have been crucial mistakes made to rebound from our preseason blunder, and with that recognition should come major changes as soon as possible. If not, we're heading in the same direction Boston is...but without a Rajon Rondo...and with the Clippers having the potential to rip away all of our free agent prospects, rebuilding may not be a pretty sight.

I'm going to read this later or sooner after watching some movies, I appreciate your effort though

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#23 fozi

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Posted January 24, 2013 - 11:32 PM

Pau is still a Laker after 2 post season no-shows and D'Antoni is still patrolling the sidelines. What does that tell you about the way the Lakers FO is thinking?


:laughing:.. Well the intention was there, Chris Paul deal, then mid season we had a deal from Houston which sends scola and dragic and couple else who i don't remember .. we had a bad luck this season when nash got injured so they didn't have enough time to play together. They took their chances, and obviously because of their second mistake(MA) they couldn't utilize and play him to his strength, if any.

You wouldn't be seeing him if they hired Phil. Now i know it sounds reluctant and dumb to get his name up every now and then, but if they wanted Phil and couldn't get him for whatsoever reason then Bshaw would've been our coach now.

Now thats a mistake, but talking about the past wont make anything but worse, for us anyway.

They still have enough time to make something, and i say it again , when our players unite and play for the team and make sacrifice+ a coach who plays to their strengths, we might make a miracle( definition: Second round)

#24 Anautikus

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Posted January 25, 2013 - 12:17 AM

I was wondering where Real Deal's assessment of the season thus far was...anyway, fantastic post.

I think it may very well come down to egos and pride at this point - no, I'm not referring to any of the players here. Is D'Antoni capable of changing his offense completely, instead of calling out his players after ugly losses? Or is the front office ready to admit to their failed decisions? Would it even be wise to hire a coach this late into the season, or just let an asst./interm coach out the year (assuming ol' Pringles does in fact get the boot)? Or will management quiver at the thought of another coach and make unnecessary trades at the deadline? This is gonna be a very...uh, "interesting," next few weeks.

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#KobeSystem


#25 fido

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Posted January 25, 2013 - 12:39 AM

Great post, says in greater detail my concerns and complaints about this team and organization.



#26 fozi

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Posted January 25, 2013 - 12:56 AM

Would it even be wise to hire a coach this late into the season, or just let an asst./interm coach out the year (assuming ol' Pringles does in fact get the boot)?



Yes it is.. Obviously Bernie isn't the heroic or the savior now, but he'll maximize the players abilities, and players would appreciate that(kobe howard?)

I just cant stand MA mocking the team in return to what kobe and howard said in postgames interviews. This is not

about him bin a good or a bad coach but either the roaster change or him, FYI , we are heading with him to a worse record than he

had with NYK last year, let alone his career with the knicks..

Edited by fozi, January 25, 2013 - 12:56 AM.


#27 TKainZero

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Posted January 25, 2013 - 03:15 AM

real deal

that was amazing

#28 fido

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Posted January 25, 2013 - 09:04 AM

I'm thinking this post should be sent to 710am (ESPN radio out here in so cal).

This is something evey Laker fan should read nationwide.

#29 t-1

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Posted January 25, 2013 - 09:36 AM

Someone send this to D'antoni or tweet the link to Kobe, post it to mitch or anybody in the laker organisation who will listen.

#30 Cj2008nw

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Posted January 25, 2013 - 12:22 PM

so now what? we wait till either we get a new owner?

#31 GCMD

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Posted January 25, 2013 - 12:24 PM

Long read, hope you sit down and look it over, though. :basketball:

Well, eventually, my confidence in this team collapsed. I've been spitting the same thing about D'Antoni and Nash since September or October (mostly Nash, until D'Antoni arrived, and then I was in full panic mode). When this happens, you can always expect a write-up from me, right?

Took me a bit, but I figured it would be great to go in and see just how each of these coaches have done. I realize the first two played just five games each, but if that bothers you, ignore that and just take a glance at D'Antoni's numbers.

------------------------------------

The team is 12-12 without Nash this season.

Our original starting five (Kobe, Howard, Nash, Gasol, Artest) is 0-5 together.

Mike Brown Era (1-4, Nash for two games, both L's)
Lakers: 47.0% FG, 34.8% 3PT (18.4 3PTA/G), 66.3% FT, 44.6 RPG, 19.6 APG, 8.0 SPG, 5.0 BPG, 18.2 TO, 21.4 PF, 97.2 PPG
Opponent: 44.7% FG, 35.6% 3PT, 22.8 FTA/G, 35.4 RPG, 21.0 APG, 9.6 SPG, 5.2 BPG, 12.4 TO, 24.2 PF, 98.8 PPG

Bernie Bickerstaff Era (4-1, no Nash)
Lakers: 45.6% FG, 34.2% 3PT (22.8 3PTA/G), 72.1% FT, 49.0 RPG, 23.0 APG, 7.4 SPG, 6.8 BPG, 14.8 TO, 14.2 PF, 103.8 PPG
Opponent: 42.2% FG, 33.3% 3PT, 15.6 FTA/G, 40.8 RPG, 22.2 APG, 8.8 SPG, 4.4 BPG, 13.4 TO, 22.6 PF, 92.2 PPG

Mike D'Antoni Era (12-20, Nash for 16 games, 11 L's)
Lakers: 45.0% FG, 35.7% 3PT (26.2 3PTA/G), 69.8% FT, 44.3 RPG, 21.8 APG, 7.1 SPG, 5.6 BPG, 14.5 TO, 19.3 PF, 102.9 PPG
Opponent: 45.8% FG, 35.9% 3PT, 21.4 FTA/G, 44.0 RPG, 24.2 APG, 8.1 SPG, 5.2 BPG, 12.9 TO, 23.1 PF, 103.4 PPG

I've highlighted the concerning numbers in red...all being the lowest among the three coaches.

It's clear we are a worse defensive team with D'Antoni...by quite a bit. We allow teams to play at a faster pace, and PART of that is us launching more threes every night, and taking shots early in the clock.

Our Pace Factor (number of possessions in 48 minutes) is second in the NBA, at a staggering 94.7. For a team that has four of five original starters in their thirties (Kobe, Nash, Gasol, Artest are all out of their ultimate primes), that's a super-fast pace. But what do you expect with a D'Antoni/Nash-led offense?

Well, unfortunately, when we run...the opposing team runs. That's how it goes. D'Antoni was quoted saying that the Memphis Grizzlies outran us tonight.

Do you want to know what the Grizzlies' Pace Factor is? It's 28th in the league.

------------------------------------

Steve Nash is a major defensive liability. Because he can't defend his man, Kobe Bryant is having to spend more energy defending PG's. That means less help defense by the best help defender on our team, other than Dwight Howard. And with less help defense comes more defensive exposing, all directed at Pau Gasol and Antawn Jamison...who are awful defenders.

Pau Gasol can't post up with Dwight? Yes he can. Run a double-post motion offense. It doesn't work? Gasol doesn't need to be two feet from the rim...he can take short jumpers off the block, or make passes out of the low post, all while Dwight maintains his position. Ah, and that gives us two offensive rebounders near the rim.

We don't have shooters? We would have a lethal shooter, if Nash (who is a 50/40/90 shooter and arguably the greatest shooter we've ever seen at the PG position) would take just a few more shots a night, playing off of two superstars (Kobe and Howard). He could settle for a 5-8 assist night, correct? I'm appalled to find out that this offensive genius can't adjust accordingly.

So with two threats from outside (Nash and Artest), how does that help our pick and roll? Significantly, especially if Nash establishes himself as a shooting threat. Why? Well, why would any player, in their right mind, leave him open to follow Howard to the rim? Why would any player leave Howard for a split second? Confusion is best generated by two scoring threats in that particular P&R situation. If Nash doesn't solidify himself as a threat, it's an easier decision for the opponent.

Where can Kobe play once one of our bigs take a seat? In the post. Can't do that in a D'Antoni offense, though, because he's not a ball-handler UNLESS he's in ISO on the perimeter.

Meanwhile, what is Nash doing when Kobe engages? Nothing. He doesn't cut to and through to the corner, he doesn't use a screen, he doesn't curl...so we basically play one half of the court, and weak side play ceases to exist (Kobe's perspective).

We go without multiple shooting threats, we lose spacing. We lose spacing, our two superstars are much, much easier to defend. Howard becomes easier to front in the post with multiple players...not so hard to slide 5-10 feet over and cover him with backside help. Kobe has a man on him AND one within two steps of a charge. In pick and roll, the opposing team can come out and push Nash 30 feet from the rim, simply because Dwight Howard is not a shooting threat, Nash doesn't establish himself as one, and Gasol is too slow to roll to the rim, as well as him being passive and choosing not to score.

The result? Ron Artest becomes our secondary scoring option...and to no one's surprise (maybe), he's shooting threes, not in the post. Kobe is strictly in ISO most of the game, once the ball comes to him. Dwight is being fronted, and because he has lost a bit of jumping ability, and because the spacing is horrible, he can't get the ball over the top. Once that ball reaches its peak elevation, and headed towards Dwight's fingertips, the opposing defenders are taught to lead him close to the baseline OR pack around him in the paint, then go "hands out" to cause the strip and prevent him from bringing the ball over his head.

We are scoring buckets on the offensive end, and our Offensive Rating is in the top 10. That doesn't mean we're a good offensive team, it means we're relying on Kobe far too much. Bryant should not have to play 40 minutes, score 30 points, and throw 5-6 assists for us to be within reach in some of these games. Our offense is not good if Ron Artest is our second scoring option, and he is shooting more shots per game (11.1) than Dwight (10.3) and Nash (8.3), and as many as Gasol (11.3). Yes, no joke...this is happening.

Why so bad on defense? Long misses cause fast breaks we can't defend. Turnovers do the same thing. We complain about fouls, and don't get back in time. We have absolutely no defensive strategy for guard penetration (leading guards to the paint or baseline, into Dwight) or for pick and roll situations (over/under, knowing when to switch, etc). We have two weak links in our starting five (Nash, Gasol...basically, Pau is a starter, since he plays big minutes) and multiple from our bench (Jamison and Meeks notably horrible).

We are old, but we TRY to play like we're young. In 2008 and 2010, the Boston Celtics were old...and played that way. Strategically. In 2011, the Dallas Mavericks did the same thing, and won it all. The following year (just last year), the Miami Heat were old compared to a fresh, young Oklahoma City Thunder team...and, yet, they realized that LeBron's post game, spreading the floor with three-point shooters, and not allowing the Thunder to ignite breaks, was going to put a ring on their fingers.

If we're playing without an identity, we are playing without effort. Rotations are broken. How many minutes will Jodie Meeks log next game? Will Jamison play the three or four? Will Darius Morris or Chris Duhon be our backup point guard? The 2010-11 Miami Heat ran through this, head first, for 17 games...and then they decided to change their offense. Once they adjusted, they went 21-1 over their next 22 games.

What would 21-1 do for us at this point? Do the math...38-26...64 games, 6th in the Western Conference.

Unfortunately, the Lakers don't give us any indication that they are going to change, and it could be this way for the next three seasons. If we lose Dwight this year, we go into the 2013-14 season with roughly $59 million dedicated to JUST Kobe, Gasol and Nash. That's the salary cap, ladies and gents. No free agents for us. If our plan is to let Gasol expire after next season (which will be an unforgettable one, for all the wrong reasons), we will have a Kobe/Nash squad...and that's if Kobe decides to extend (and with how these next 1 1/2 seasons could go, he'd consider retirement). Nash will be months away from 41 years old in the fall of 2014. Think about that.

We have made multiple mistakes over the years, from giving away large contracts to a couple of coaches (who clearly didn't fit here) and trading away draft picks (and making bad picks), to keeping Pau Gasol until his knees rust away and playing four entirely different offenses from May 2012 to January 2013. Instead of building a solid team around our two superstars, we have asked our two superstars to adjust to a 39-year old point guard that is playing like he's 39 years old (imagine that). Do the Knicks center their offense around Jason Kidd, or Sheed in the post? Boston is under .500 because three of their best are 35-36 years old, and the offense runs through them (especially Pierce and Garnett). If it wasn't for Rondo, and the fact that they are familiar with each other, they would be a disaster. The Spurs have stacked young players around their two oldest (Duncan and Manu), and Duncan is having an incredible season, regardless.

Dark times are ahead of us, if we don't play our cards right. As of now, our record in April isn't the biggest concern. Someone, whether it's Jerry or Jim, Mitch, or Jeanie reading from a hand-written note from one of them, needs to speak up and admit there have been crucial mistakes made to rebound from our preseason blunder, and with that recognition should come major changes as soon as possible. If not, we're heading in the same direction Boston is...but without a Rajon Rondo...and with the Clippers having the potential to rip away all of our free agent prospects, rebuilding may not be a pretty sight.


Highly intelligent post with far too many mistakes and opinions stated as fact. I don't have the time to go thru it all right now but I will, eventually.

Just a few facts - this team isn't as old as people keep wanting to say it is. The offense is only as good as the players who execute it and their ability to play together within it. Making MDA a scapegoat for the defense is stupid when a defensive coach (Brown) struggled with this same team on that end. Claiming the offense doesn't work when the offense is abandoned so often for Kobe Ball is another stupid statement...it will NEVER work if you don't run it.

Most of your other assertions are without context and therefore, without merit. You are pushing your own agenda and preference and ignoring basic FACTS that explain everything that bothers you.

It's unacceptable from a poster of your intelligence.

#32 Real Deal

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Posted January 25, 2013 - 03:28 PM

Highly intelligent post with far too many mistakes and opinions stated as fact. I don't have the time to go thru it all right now but I will, eventually.

Just a few facts - this team isn't as old as people keep wanting to say it is. The offense is only as good as the players who execute it and their ability to play together within it. Making MDA a scapegoat for the defense is stupid when a defensive coach (Brown) struggled with this same team on that end. Claiming the offense doesn't work when the offense is abandoned so often for Kobe Ball is another stupid statement...it will NEVER work if you don't run it.

Most of your other assertions are without context and therefore, without merit. You are pushing your own agenda and preference and ignoring basic FACTS that explain everything that bothers you.

It's unacceptable from a poster of your intelligence.

GCMD should be changed to GTFO.

Don't bother replying to anything else, dude. I'm not going to read it. You're either a closet Phoenix Suns fan, or you literally are not watching ANY of our games.

You're the only one on this SITE that thinks differently now...so just let me know if you want me to find you a Suns message board, to satisfy your love-fest with a 39-year old PG that is NOT AS GOOD AS HE ONCE WAS (get this through your head, dude), and I'll do it.

#33 avcpl

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Posted January 25, 2013 - 03:31 PM

Don't bother replying to anything else, dude. I'm not going to read it.


has there ever been talk of adding an "ignore" function to this site? I for one would greatly appreciate it.

#34 Real Deal

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Posted January 25, 2013 - 03:34 PM

has there ever been talk of adding an "ignore" function to this site? I for one would greatly appreciate it.

There is one. You go to that person's profile, and you have the option to ignore (I think). Haha, I really can't say for sure how to get to it, or even what happens when you do use it, because I've been administrator since I put the site up, and we can't use the feature.

#35 bfc1125roy

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Posted January 25, 2013 - 03:38 PM

Just a few facts - this team isn't as old as people keep wanting to say it is.

It's as old as the players on it, which is approximately 28.9 years old, and that's counting the younger guys that don't play, and Jordan Hill.

The offense is only as good as the players who execute it and their ability to play together within it. Making MDA a scapegoat for the defense is stupid when a defensive coach (Brown) struggled with this same team on that end.


If players play within the offense, then the players are as good as the offense allows them to be. Your prerequisites are mixed up here. This offense doesn't use the talents of our two superstars properly and that's why we can't maximize the talent we have. The players that play in the offense are good, e.g. Kobe and Dwight. Their ability to play together in it is lessened because of the offense itself.

Brown's struggles were related to some [expletive]ed up version of the Princeton he was running, and he forced his team to play too much in that system when they hadn't learned it yet. It wasn't as bad as people were making it out to be. His mistake was not allowing flexibility while the players were figuring things out, as well as a crappy defensive system.

Claiming the offense doesn't work when the offense is abandoned so often for Kobe Ball is another stupid statement...it will NEVER work if you don't run it.


What you say actually supports that the offense isn't working, because the offense is abandoned for Kobe ball precisely because it isn't working. Nobody wants to play Kobe ball, it's only a bailout strategy used when the offense didn't work properly. Kobe's quotes actually confirm this.

#36 Drazard

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Posted January 25, 2013 - 03:51 PM

salute on this thread

I wish were overusing D12 instead of Kobe even doe I just want to see kobe working I prefer winning than losing

33bkfif.jpg


#37 Real Deal

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Posted January 25, 2013 - 03:52 PM

Just a few facts - this team isn't as old as people keep wanting to say it is.

Fourth oldest team in the NBA, according to average age across the roster (including or rooks and sophomores). That's old. But even worse, we have four starters (Kobe, Nash, Gasol, Artest) who make up for the oldest starting lineup in the NBA. FACT.

The offense is only as good as the players who execute it and their ability to play together within it.

So are you willing to tell everyone here (which will be laughable) that ANY OFFENSE will work with ANY TEAM? Go for it.

Guys reading this...please pay attention to his answer (and he'll answer, don't worry).

Making MDA a scapegoat for the defense is stupid when a defensive coach (Brown) struggled with this same team on that end.

I gave you statistics that prove otherwise. We were in the better half of the NBA in defense when Brown was here for those five games..the numbers tell you this. The Warriors are currently 12th in the NBA in defensive rating, letting teams unload more points than we did in the Mike Brown era. We defended the 3PT line 11th in the NBA at that time. Did you not read? Did you not compare the facts?

Even funnier, you did come out and say that Dwight Howard was getting healthier...but are you willing to ignore this for this particular argument now?

And why were Bickerstaff's Lakers so much better? Maybe it was because Nash wasn't on the floor for ANY of those games, and Bickerstaff actually let them go out and play their game?

Claiming the offense doesn't work when the offense is abandoned so often for Kobe Ball is another stupid statement...it will NEVER work if you don't run it.

No, wrong. The offense is abandoned by Steve Nash, because he can't do a damn thing in the P&R, and because our players aren't going to run the court with him and stand on the three-point line. He also can't get to the rim.

How is this not clear to you? How is it not clear that Ron Artest becomes VITAL in our offense when we run it through Nash? He becomes the second most important scorer on this team...and that's fine with you? What the hell are you thinking?

Is it not clear that D'Antoni doesn't like to post up players? Has it not soaked in yet?

Most of your other assertions are without context and therefore, without merit. You are pushing your own agenda and preference and ignoring basic FACTS that explain everything that bothers you.

It's unacceptable from a poster of your intelligence.

Yeah, good way to piss me off. What's unacceptable is you strolling in and trolling...because I honestly don't think you're this ignorant.

You're standing alone now. How does it feel? How are your Nash-led Lakers doing this season? How were the Suns last year, when Gentry still believed they could run? How about in 2011? How did the Knicks do in the D'Antoni era?

You were the biggest supporter...and I find it funny. I hope you remember every single word and letter I've posted since September, too.

#38 fido

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Posted January 25, 2013 - 03:59 PM

This season is destroying everyone (myself included).

#39 LakeShow805

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Posted January 25, 2013 - 04:09 PM

Highly intelligent post with far too many mistakes and opinions stated as fact. I don't have the time to go thru it all right now but I will, eventually.

Just a few facts - this team isn't as old as people keep wanting to say it is. The offense is only as good as the players who execute it and their ability to play together within it. Making MDA a scapegoat for the defense is stupid when a defensive coach (Brown) struggled with this same team on that end. Claiming the offense doesn't work when the offense is abandoned so often for Kobe Ball is another stupid statement...it will NEVER work if you don't run it.

Most of your other assertions are without context and therefore, without merit. You are pushing your own agenda and preference and ignoring basic FACTS that explain everything that bothers you.

It's unacceptable from a poster of your intelligence.

Lol blame everything on Kobe

Doing it before and still doing it

#40 Cj2008nw

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Posted January 25, 2013 - 04:25 PM

This only the beginning of what might be a horrible decade to come for the lakers





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