Jump to content




Photo

Should have kept Gerald Green; would not need Jamison right now


  • Please log in to reply
29 replies to this topic

#1 integrate0

integrate0

    Rookie

  • 73 posts
  • Joined: Jan 05, 2013
  • Name:j
  • Fan Since:1990
  • Fav. Laker:magic

Posted January 08, 2013 - 08:07 PM

Gerald Green isn't great, but he's better than Ebanks or Jamison for the 3 spot. Probably a better defender than Artest right now too.

Could have also kept Chris Douglas Roberts and cut Ebanks.

Should have, could have, would have...

Sucks.

#2 Majesty

Majesty

    Luol Deng's cousin is awesome. Thanks for the pizza!!

  • 41,196 posts
  • Joined: Dec 11, 2011
  • Name:Jay
  • Fan Since:1987
  • Fav. Laker:Kobe present, Magic past

Posted January 08, 2013 - 08:07 PM

Was expecting CDR's name to start popping up around this time actually.

Looks like Green beat him to it.

True to form though

D'antoni plays Jamison and Jamison plays crappy and people screem to sit him

Jordan Hill plays lights out in Jamison's absence but people call D'antoni and idiot for not playing Jamison more..

Jamison comes in and shows you WHY D'antoni sat him.

And now Jamison is back to being 'useless'

If he sits for 5 more games people will be asking him to play again.

Edited by Majesty, January 08, 2013 - 08:09 PM.

Is Wayne Brady gonna have to Djokovic? - Robert Flores


#3 integrate0

integrate0

    Rookie

  • 73 posts
  • Joined: Jan 05, 2013
  • Name:j
  • Fan Since:1990
  • Fav. Laker:magic

Posted January 08, 2013 - 08:12 PM

I'm glad Jamison was being sat. I didn't like his signing from the start.

Hill should really have started. Too bad D'Antoni has to start Pau since he makes $19 million and Kobe won't allow anything else.

#4 Real Deal

Real Deal

    Legend

  • 14,925 posts
  • Joined: Jun 29, 2008
  • Location:Kansas
  • Name:Brandon
  • Fav. Laker:Kobe

Posted January 08, 2013 - 08:17 PM

1) Gerald Green is not a better defender than Ron Artest. It's not even close.

2) He's shooting 37% from the floor overall, and only 32% from three, on an incredibly bad offensive team in Indiana (ranked 29th). The Pacers are only good because they have the top-ranked defense in the league, and that has absolutely nothing to do with Green, who is coming off the bench for a reason.

The few good games he had last season...it was a fluke. He came out of nowhere, teams didn't know what to do with him just yet, and when they finally figured him (and the Nets) out, that was it. On the Pacers, opponents know what to expect now, and he's back to being the Gerald Green that was cut from LA.

#5 Majesty

Majesty

    Luol Deng's cousin is awesome. Thanks for the pizza!!

  • 41,196 posts
  • Joined: Dec 11, 2011
  • Name:Jay
  • Fan Since:1987
  • Fav. Laker:Kobe present, Magic past

Posted January 08, 2013 - 08:24 PM

Indiana as a whole is a scary defensive team.

They aren't the Pistons or anything but... they got my attention.

Edited by Majesty, January 08, 2013 - 08:24 PM.

Is Wayne Brady gonna have to Djokovic? - Robert Flores


#6 integrate0

integrate0

    Rookie

  • 73 posts
  • Joined: Jan 05, 2013
  • Name:j
  • Fan Since:1990
  • Fav. Laker:magic

Posted January 08, 2013 - 08:31 PM

1) Gerald Green is not a better defender than Ron Artest. It's not even close.

2) He's shooting 37% from the floor overall, and only 32% from three, on an incredibly bad offensive team in Indiana (ranked 29th). The Pacers are only good because they have the top-ranked defense in the league, and that has absolutely nothing to do with Green, who is coming off the bench for a reason.

The few good games he had last season...it was a fluke. He came out of nowhere, teams didn't know what to do with him just yet, and when they finally figured him (and the Nets) out, that was it. On the Pacers, opponents know what to expect now, and he's back to being the Gerald Green that was cut from LA.


You would rather have Jamison or Ebanks than Green?

Artest isn't that good of a defender anymore. Especially off the ball defense. He's certainly smarter, but his foot speed isn't there for transition defense either. But I wasn't talking about replacing Artest; I'd rather have a Artest start and Green come off the bench. Green could be quicker at rotating on defense too. Look at his defensive rating. It's better than Artest/Jamison/Ebanks.

What's Morris going to do with Antawn Jamison? Nothing. At least Morris and Green could run the floor together.

Edited by integrate0, January 08, 2013 - 08:33 PM.


#7 Lakerace24

Lakerace24

    Sixth Man

  • 3,517 posts
  • Joined: Jun 12, 2012
  • Name:Matt
  • Fan Since:Birth
  • Fav. Laker:Kobe

Posted January 08, 2013 - 08:35 PM

Oh [expletive] haha.

Integrate, I hope you're ready to go to battle buddy, because Real Deal is as prepared as anyone to debate the likes of Gerald Green and Darius Morris lol

#8 Majesty

Majesty

    Luol Deng's cousin is awesome. Thanks for the pizza!!

  • 41,196 posts
  • Joined: Dec 11, 2011
  • Name:Jay
  • Fan Since:1987
  • Fav. Laker:Kobe present, Magic past

Posted January 08, 2013 - 08:37 PM

You would rather have Jamison or Ebanks than Green?

Artest isn't that good of a defender anymore. Especially off the ball defense. He's certainly smarter, but his foot speed isn't there for transition defense either. But I wasn't talking about replacing Artest; I'd rather have a Artest start and Green come off the bench. Green could be quicker at rotating on defense too. Look at his defensive rating. It's better than Artest/Jamison/Ebanks.

What's Morris going to do with Antawn Jamison? Nothing. At least Morris and Green could run the floor together.


Do you realize what you've done..

You've put Gerald Green...and Darius Morris.. in the same topic!!!!!


:yikes:

Is Wayne Brady gonna have to Djokovic? - Robert Flores


#9 Real Deal

Real Deal

    Legend

  • 14,925 posts
  • Joined: Jun 29, 2008
  • Location:Kansas
  • Name:Brandon
  • Fav. Laker:Kobe

Posted January 08, 2013 - 08:49 PM

You would rather have Jamison or Ebanks than Green?

Nope. Don't want any of them.

Artest isn't that good of a defender anymore. Especially off the ball defense. He's certainly smarter, but his foot speed isn't there for transition defense either. But I wasn't talking about replacing Artest; I'd rather have a Artest start and Green come off the bench. Green could be quicker at rotating on defense too. Look at his defensive rating. It's better than Artest/Jamison/Ebanks.

Artest's hand speed, and physicality, has made him an elite defender over the years, not his foot speed or even his defensive IQ. He hasn't lost either of those.

Green's defensive rating is going to be higher than it should be, quite frankly, because he's on one of the greatest defensive teams this league has seen, according to opponent FG%. People don't realize just how great the Pacers are playing defense right now.

But let's talk about that defensive rating for a minute. Gerald Green is 14th (dead last) on that Pacers team. Here's a list of players who are over him:


Roy Hibbert
Jeff Pendergraph
Ian Mahinmi
Paul George
David West
Miles Plumlee
Ben Hansbrough
Sam Young
Tyler Hansbrough
Lance Stephenson
George Hill
Orlando Johnson
DJ Augustin

Just to prove a point, I'm only going to need to take ONE player from that list: DJ Augustin, who is a pathetic defender...yet, his defensive rating is higher than Gerald Green's. Must be higher than Ron's, also.

Augustin's 102 defensive rating is higher than Rajon Rondo's 103.

How accurate are defensive ratings?

Gerald Green is not a good defender. His defensive rating his elevated because he's on the best defensive team in the NBA. EVERYONE on that team will have an elevated defensive rating.

What's Morris going to do with Antawn Jamison? Nothing. At least Morris and Green could run the floor together.

All three of them are bench players that won't turn this team around, so it's irrelevant. Gerald Green doesn't do anything with the ball other than try to ISO, and that's why he was getting yelled at, and eventually benched, in practice by Frank Vogel.

He's no good. No point in wanting him here.

#10 bigfetz

bigfetz

    Laker Fan

  • 17,969 posts
  • Joined: Dec 20, 2011
  • Fan Since:2005

Posted January 08, 2013 - 08:54 PM

The second I saw this thread I knew real deal was gonna be here lol.

Anyway I really don't think it would be much of an improvment. Guy really isn't that good. He's better than ebanks ok but thats not saying much. Ebanks is a scrub.

#11 MrKnowItAll

MrKnowItAll

    Starter

  • 5,275 posts
  • Joined: Feb 29, 2012
  • Name:Yosif
  • Fan Since:I was born
  • Fav. Laker:Kobe bryant

Posted January 08, 2013 - 09:36 PM

Shoulda. Woulda. Coulda.

#12 integrate0

integrate0

    Rookie

  • 73 posts
  • Joined: Jan 05, 2013
  • Name:j
  • Fan Since:1990
  • Fav. Laker:magic

Posted January 08, 2013 - 09:44 PM

Nope. Don't want any of them.


Artest's hand speed, and physicality, has made him an elite defender over the years, not his foot speed or even his defensive IQ. He hasn't lost either of those.

Green's defensive rating is going to be higher than it should be, quite frankly, because he's on one of the greatest defensive teams this league has seen, according to opponent FG%. People don't realize just how great the Pacers are playing defense right now.

But let's talk about that defensive rating for a minute. Gerald Green is 14th (dead last) on that Pacers team. Here's a list of players who are over him:


Roy Hibbert
Jeff Pendergraph
Ian Mahinmi
Paul George
David West
Miles Plumlee
Ben Hansbrough
Sam Young
Tyler Hansbrough
Lance Stephenson
George Hill
Orlando Johnson
DJ Augustin

Just to prove a point, I'm only going to need to take ONE player from that list: DJ Augustin, who is a pathetic defender...yet, his defensive rating is higher than Gerald Green's. Must be higher than Ron's, also.

Augustin's 102 defensive rating is higher than Rajon Rondo's 103.

How accurate are defensive ratings?

Gerald Green is not a good defender. His defensive rating his elevated because he's on the best defensive team in the NBA. EVERYONE on that team will have an elevated defensive rating.


All three of them are bench players that won't turn this team around, so it's irrelevant. Gerald Green doesn't do anything with the ball other than try to ISO, and that's why he was getting yelled at, and eventually benched, in practice by Frank Vogel.

He's no good. No point in wanting him here.


Artest is no longer an elite defender. His foot speed and jumping ability simply isn't what it used to be. He can play good post up defensive, but players can still blow by him and slashers run him out of the gym. Look at all the players he went up against this year. The only ones he really slowed down were Turner, Gallinari, Gee, and Prince. Everyone else has been able to score against him.

Green might not be a great isolation defender, but he can do well off the ball, chasing guys around, and that matters.

Decent bench players can tremendously help a team if utilized correctly - they're supposed to contribute 25% of the time for each game, which is significant and can help turn a team around. The recent Lakers teams should be a prime example. Even a single bench player can certainly make a difference because of how sensitive the match ups can be, and this why we have the 6th man award. It's been proven over and over again in the NBA.

e.g. Trevor Ariza and JJ Barea in recent years.

Edited by integrate0, January 08, 2013 - 09:45 PM.


#13 TKainZero

TKainZero

    Renaissance Man

  • 14,274 posts
  • Joined: Jul 21, 2010
  • Fan Since:1986
  • Fav. Laker:Kobe

Posted January 08, 2013 - 09:54 PM

blast from the past


lets get von wafer back here as well too

#14 Majesty

Majesty

    Luol Deng's cousin is awesome. Thanks for the pizza!!

  • 41,196 posts
  • Joined: Dec 11, 2011
  • Name:Jay
  • Fan Since:1987
  • Fav. Laker:Kobe present, Magic past

Posted January 08, 2013 - 09:56 PM

How about Jamario moon? He'd be an awesome defender at the 1 better than DUhon :laughing:

Is Wayne Brady gonna have to Djokovic? - Robert Flores


#15 TKainZero

TKainZero

    Renaissance Man

  • 14,274 posts
  • Joined: Jul 21, 2010
  • Fan Since:1986
  • Fav. Laker:Kobe

Posted January 08, 2013 - 09:57 PM

How about Jamario moon? He'd be an awesome defender at the 1 better than DUhon :laughing:


And Janal Pargo!
Mike Penberthy?

JR Rider?

#16 Real Deal

Real Deal

    Legend

  • 14,925 posts
  • Joined: Jun 29, 2008
  • Location:Kansas
  • Name:Brandon
  • Fav. Laker:Kobe

Posted January 08, 2013 - 10:10 PM

Artest is no longer an elite defender. His foot speed and jumping ability simply isn't what it used to be. He can play good post up defensive, but players can still blow by him and slashers run him out of the gym. Look at all the players he went up against this year. The only ones he really slowed down were Turner, Gallinari, Gee, and Prince. Everyone else has been able to score against him.

Never said he was still an elite defender. I said that he hasn't lost his quick hands or physicality, which is what made him one. He's slowing down, though, and that's the big reason why he is no longer elite.

But regardless, he's still a far better defender than Green, who is coming off the bench and struggling to defend second unit players.

Green might not be a great isolation defender, but he can do well off the ball, chasing guys around, and that matters.

Any young player can chase others around. That's not defense. Antawn Jamison can stay on Kevin Garnett's hip on a fast break, but that doesn't mean he can stop him from scoring once he's at the rim.

Decent bench players can tremendously help a team if utilized correctly - they're supposed to contribute 25% of the time for each game, which is significant and can help turn a team around. The recent Lakers teams should be a prime example. Even a single bench player can certainly make a difference because of how sensitive the match ups can be, and this why we have the 6th man award. It's been proven over and over again in the NBA.

The recent Lakers teams provide us with an example? The recent Lakers teams have had some of the worst benches in the league, aside from Lamar Odom's play (who was basically a starter anyway, playing starter minutes).

Trevor Ariza was a starter for us, by the way. He's also a specialty player, like Tony Allen and Thabo Sefolosha...two guys who aren't big offensive threats, but have earned starter positions (Thabo over Harden, for instance) due to their defensive skills.

Gerald Green does nothing special.

e.g. Trevor Ariza and JJ Barea in recent years.

JJ Barea just torched the Lakers, because we could never defend the PG position. He's not an efficient player, and that's even when you consider him playing against other role players...and the one thing he can do (he can get to the rim) is more than what Gerald Green can give you on a consistent basis.

So, what special skill does Gerald Green have to offer? There's nothing. He's shooting poorly again (like he has for most of his career), he doesn't know how to pass the ball or facilitate an offense, he doesn't defend, he doesn't do anything notably well.

Jamal Crawford is an impact player coming off the bench. James Harden was last season. Manu Ginobili. Kevin Martin. Avery Bradley, who is arguably a top three perimeter defender...and Lamar Odom, pre-Mavericks.

Not Gerald Green.

#17 DanishLakerFan

DanishLakerFan

    Starter

  • 5,021 posts
  • Joined: May 27, 2011
  • Fan Since:1998
  • Fav. Laker:Kobe

Posted January 08, 2013 - 11:10 PM

Never said he was still an elite defender. I said that he hasn't lost his quick hands or physicality, which is what made him one. He's slowing down, though, and that's the big reason why he is no longer elite.

But regardless, he's still a far better defender than Green, who is coming off the bench and struggling to defend second unit players.


Any young player can chase others around. That's not defense. Antawn Jamison can stay on Kevin Garnett's hip on a fast break, but that doesn't mean he can stop him from scoring once he's at the rim.


The recent Lakers teams provide us with an example? The recent Lakers teams have had some of the worst benches in the league, aside from Lamar Odom's play (who was basically a starter anyway, playing starter minutes).

Trevor Ariza was a starter for us, by the way. He's also a specialty player, like Tony Allen and Thabo Sefolosha...two guys who aren't big offensive threats, but have earned starter positions (Thabo over Harden, for instance) due to their defensive skills.

Gerald Green does nothing special.


JJ Barea just torched the Lakers, because we could never defend the PG position. He's not an efficient player, and that's even when you consider him playing against other role players...and the one thing he can do (he can get to the rim) is more than what Gerald Green can give you on a consistent basis.

So, what special skill does Gerald Green have to offer? There's nothing. He's shooting poorly again (like he has for most of his career), he doesn't know how to pass the ball or facilitate an offense, he doesn't defend, he doesn't do anything notably well.

Jamal Crawford is an impact player coming off the bench. James Harden was last season. Manu Ginobili. Kevin Martin. Avery Bradley, who is arguably a top three perimeter defender...and Lamar Odom, pre-Mavericks.

Not Gerald Green.

Geral Green may not be the answer, but that's beside the point. Passing on Green is symptomatic of a strange direction the Lakers front office have taken this season. Both the season and pre-season we've passed on players who really could have helped us.

We've passed on:
Chris Doughlas-Roberts and Gerald Green. At this point we lose games because we can't keep up with the other teams. These guys may actually have been able to provide some athleticism, energy and scoring off the bench.
We've struggled with perimeter- and help-defense. Why not sign Kenyon Martin or crazy-man Delonte West for one-year minimum deals or trade for Raja Bell, who knows the system and isn't playing in Utah.
Landro Barbosa, Matt Barnes and Grant Hill were options as well at some point, but nothing happened.
Other guys, who could have helped but signed elsewhere on minimum contracts are Ronnie Brewer, Andray Blatche, D-Fish.
Im sure i could make this list twice as long.

I know many of these guys aren't game-changers (though 'Bosa could be). But we're starting Darius Morris, for christsakes.

#18 Real Deal

Real Deal

    Legend

  • 14,925 posts
  • Joined: Jun 29, 2008
  • Location:Kansas
  • Name:Brandon
  • Fav. Laker:Kobe

Posted January 08, 2013 - 11:13 PM

That's understandable...but the topic states that if we had Gerald Green, we wouldn't need Jamison.

Well, we would still need help.

Quite frankly, we don't need Jamison...no matter who else is here. He's a liability on defense (a major one), and he's not producing on the offensive end.

Would I replace Jamison with Gerald Green? Probably, but it doesn't do much at all.

#19 DanishLakerFan

DanishLakerFan

    Starter

  • 5,021 posts
  • Joined: May 27, 2011
  • Fan Since:1998
  • Fav. Laker:Kobe

Posted January 08, 2013 - 11:26 PM

I'd put him ahead of Morris, Ebanks, Clark and Jamison any day. In this system, where he just needs to sprint to the corner and wait for the ball, he'd be fine. Defensively, he is no bigger liability than many of our other guys.

#20 Real Deal

Real Deal

    Legend

  • 14,925 posts
  • Joined: Jun 29, 2008
  • Location:Kansas
  • Name:Brandon
  • Fav. Laker:Kobe

Posted January 08, 2013 - 11:34 PM

Truthfully, Jamison and Ebanks should be removed from this roster, in any way possible, as soon as their contracts expire OR if we can add them as fillers in a trade.

Since Steve Blake is injured, and Duhon falls in line with the two above (in my opinion), we are required to keep Morris.

Funny enough, I think Clark should be given a shot as a backup PF/SF. He wants to play defense, and that's good. He doesn't want the ball all the time, and that's great. He's not Jordan Hill, talent-wise, but he thinks like him...hustles like him...and I'm okay with that.




1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users