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The Lakers would be better without Kobe


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#81 Real Deal

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Posted January 03, 2013 - 06:32 PM

I realize where I am, in Laker Land. I know Kobe Bryant is King in Laker Land. I know a lot of you guys have been with him for years and believe in him. I know Kobe has 5 rings(3 with Shaq, 2 with Pau.)

Still I'm fairly confident that if Kobe had to miss 15-20 games with some sort of an injury, that Nash could get this team to fire on all cylinders.

That's not what it's about. We aren't defending Kobe because he has been a Laker for 17 seasons, we're defending him because he's HANDS DOWN the best player on this team.

In our five championships...he was the facilitator in the triangle offense. He led the team in assists all five of those seasons, and almost every season since the 1999-00 championship (with the exception of maybe two, one when we had Gary Payton...and that was basically Payton getting 0.4 more assists).

Kobe has always been viewed as the selfish 30+ PPG scorer...yet, he was the guy running the triangle offense all of those years. People don't understand that. And the offense created more "hockey assists" than anything else, much like you saw with Dwight Howard in Orlando. Howard WAS the reason why all of those shooters were wide open during their run to the 2009 NBA Finals...but he wasn't racking up 5+ assists per game because the Magic were swinging the ball once he kicked it back out.

Kobe's 30 points and five assists today...are no different than his 30 points and five assists in those championship seasons, EXCEPT that those 30 points are at 48%, which is the highest he's ever shot.

So, again, why should Kobe stop doing what won him five championships, and move aside for a guy who has NEVER averaged 19 PPG, who has NEVER been in the NBA Finals (let alone win a championship), who has NEVER shot the ball more than 27 times in his career and has scored 40+ just twice (I believe, both 42's)...when KB is having his best statistical season yet?

Nash is the 39-year old. We aren't going to run...because we can't run, doesn't matter what Nash does or wants to do, he can't force old players to run. Even he is having trouble, which is part of why he struggled last season in Phoenix (I'm assuming you were a Suns fan, so you should know this better than most...the team was bad, but Nash did have trouble getting up and down the court).

It makes very little sense to see Steve Nash NOT try and play off of Kobe and Dwight. He is one of the greatest shooters ever...in my opinion, the greatest shooter at his position (of all time), yet, he's not taking advantage of that.

Instead of Ron Artest taking 14 shots a night, it should be Nash.

We can't afford to play all of our guys out of their comfort zone, just to make Nash feel like he's back in Phoenix. Kobe and Dwight are superstars. Nash is a borderline all-star PG at this point. He was brought here to take SOME pressure off of Kobe, and to shoot the ball at a 50/40/90 clip, which is what he can do...not come here to act like a 25-year old Magic Johnson and turn Kobe into Byron Scott.

If Nash is so great, he will adjust accordingly. He's 39, playing limited minutes. He's nearly a PG version of Larry Bird out there, in regards to his back issues. If he's not going to change, we're going to fall to a team like the Thunder, who has a PG (Westbrook) who is faster, stronger, and would bully Nash around an entire series...and a team that is, collectively, faster than we are.

#82 MyJohnsonIsMagic

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Posted January 03, 2013 - 06:38 PM

I hope he eventually understands what you are saying RD.

Pretty ignorant to assume we are backing Kobe up simply because we are Lakers fans smh.

#83 ColStac

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Posted January 04, 2013 - 12:12 AM

That's not what it's about. We aren't defending Kobe because he has been a Laker for 17 seasons, we're defending him because he's HANDS DOWN the best player on this team.

In our five championships...he was the facilitator in the triangle offense. He led the team in assists all five of those seasons, and almost every season since the 1999-00 championship (with the exception of maybe two, one when we had Gary Payton...and that was basically Payton getting 0.4 more assists).

Kobe has always been viewed as the selfish 30+ PPG scorer...yet, he was the guy running the triangle offense all of those years. People don't understand that. And the offense created more "hockey assists" than anything else, much like you saw with Dwight Howard in Orlando. Howard WAS the reason why all of those shooters were wide open during their run to the 2009 NBA Finals...but he wasn't racking up 5+ assists per game because the Magic were swinging the ball once he kicked it back out.

Kobe's 30 points and five assists today...are no different than his 30 points and five assists in those championship seasons, EXCEPT that those 30 points are at 48%, which is the highest he's ever shot.

So, again, why should Kobe stop doing what won him five championships, and move aside for a guy who has NEVER averaged 19 PPG, who has NEVER been in the NBA Finals (let alone win a championship), who has NEVER shot the ball more than 27 times in his career and has scored 40+ just twice (I believe, both 42's)...when KB is having his best statistical season yet?

Nash is the 39-year old. We aren't going to run...because we can't run, doesn't matter what Nash does or wants to do, he can't force old players to run. Even he is having trouble, which is part of why he struggled last season in Phoenix (I'm assuming you were a Suns fan, so you should know this better than most...the team was bad, but Nash did have trouble getting up and down the court).

It makes very little sense to see Steve Nash NOT try and play off of Kobe and Dwight. He is one of the greatest shooters ever...in my opinion, the greatest shooter at his position (of all time), yet, he's not taking advantage of that.

Instead of Ron Artest taking 14 shots a night, it should be Nash.

We can't afford to play all of our guys out of their comfort zone, just to make Nash feel like he's back in Phoenix. Kobe and Dwight are superstars. Nash is a borderline all-star PG at this point. He was brought here to take SOME pressure off of Kobe, and to shoot the ball at a 50/40/90 clip, which is what he can do...not come here to act like a 25-year old Magic Johnson and turn Kobe into Byron Scott.

If Nash is so great, he will adjust accordingly. He's 39, playing limited minutes. He's nearly a PG version of Larry Bird out there, in regards to his back issues. If he's not going to change, we're going to fall to a team like the Thunder, who has a PG (Westbrook) who is faster, stronger, and would bully Nash around an entire series...and a team that is, collectively, faster than we are.


Hard to say it any better than this.
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#84 jasonC

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Posted January 04, 2013 - 04:54 AM

We are all just fans of basketball. We all have opinions on how this team can improve, that is why we talk about it on a message board. None of us are actually on the team, so really we are just here for discussion. My intention was not to insult anyone just to offer my opinion. The Lakers have a mega talented roster, we all know they have the potential to win big. My hope is that they get it together and acheive their potential.

I was just trying to say that if Kobe Bryant could pull himself out of "alpha-dog" mode that the team as a whole would be better for it. SImple as that.

#85 jasonC

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Posted January 04, 2013 - 05:34 AM

If Nash is not gonna look to shoot the ball 13-20 times then we are screwed


I agree with this, he needs to shoot more.

#86 Saber

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Posted January 04, 2013 - 05:50 AM

Fan since: When Steve Nash became a Laker .. lol that explains a lot ..

Edited by Saber, January 04, 2013 - 05:51 AM.


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#87 Piston Honda

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Posted January 04, 2013 - 06:42 AM

My intention was not to insult anyone just to offer my opinion.

Nobody is insulted. Everybody is offering their counterarguments. It would be wise to be open to the opinions of those who have watched the Lakers longer than you have.

#88 gque24

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Posted January 04, 2013 - 06:45 AM

I realize where I am, in Laker Land. I know Kobe Bryant is King in Laker Land. I know a lot of you guys have been with him for years and believe in him. I know Kobe has 5 rings(3 with Shaq, 2 with Pau.)

Still I'm fairly confident that if Kobe had to miss 15-20 games with some sort of an injury, that Nash could get this team to fire on all cylinders.


:turrible: :nono: So get rid of the best players production & let a guy thats almost 40 coming off a serious leg injury thtas still outta shape take full reigns & LA would be better off?

The level of ignorance
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#89 jasonC

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Posted January 04, 2013 - 07:07 AM

Go Lakers. Go Nash, Go Kobe, Go Dwight, Go Pau, Go Meeks.

Let's get a win tonight.

#90 MyJohnsonIsMagic

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Posted January 04, 2013 - 08:30 AM

We are all just fans of basketball. We all have opinions on how this team can improve, that is why we talk about it on a message board. None of us are actually on the team, so really we are just here for discussion. My intention was not to insult anyone just to offer my opinion. The Lakers have a mega talented roster, we all know they have the potential to win big. My hope is that they get it together and acheive their potential.

I was just trying to say that if Kobe Bryant could pull himself out of "alpha-dog" mode that the team as a whole would be better for it. SImple as that.


That guy "Real Deal" that keeps responding to your comments may not be part of the Lakers staff,
but he isn't just a simple fan either FYI.

I see you've learned nothing from any of our replies, so it seems our attempt to enlighten you on matters
you don't understand were in vain.

I'll be putting you on my ignore list because your replies aren't worth reading especially if your opinions
won't change after elaborate counter-arguments.

You keep making the same false statements over and over again:

if Kobe Bryant could pull himself out of "alpha-dog" mode that the team as a whole would be better for it. SImple as that.

Idiotic.

SMH

Edited by MyJohnsonIsMagic, January 04, 2013 - 08:31 AM.


#91 MyJohnsonIsMagic

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Posted January 04, 2013 - 08:33 AM

:turrible: :nono: So get rid of the best players production & let a guy thats almost 40 coming off a serious leg injury thtas still outta shape take full reigns & LA would be better off?

The level of ignorance


If you read page by page you'd realize this guy isn't ignorant, hes stupid, simple as that.

#92 DanishLakerFan

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Posted January 04, 2013 - 08:41 AM

The Lakers would be better without Kobe?
The Lakernation would be better without JasonC!

#93 jasonC

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Posted January 04, 2013 - 08:58 AM

Ahh. The joy of message boards.

#94 DanishLakerFan

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Posted January 04, 2013 - 10:46 AM

Ahh. The joy of message boards.

What did you expect? Perhaps you should go on a Clippers Forum and write a "Clippers would be better without CP3"-thread.

Regardless, i dont agree with you on Kobe being the problem on the Lakers, but you're entitled to your opinon, crazy as it is.

#95 24allday

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Posted January 04, 2013 - 11:01 AM

That's not what it's about. We aren't defending Kobe because he has been a Laker for 17 seasons, we're defending him because he's HANDS DOWN the best player on this team.

In our five championships...he was the facilitator in the triangle offense. He led the team in assists all five of those seasons, and almost every season since the 1999-00 championship (with the exception of maybe two, one when we had Gary Payton...and that was basically Payton getting 0.4 more assists).

Kobe has always been viewed as the selfish 30+ PPG scorer...yet, he was the guy running the triangle offense all of those years. People don't understand that. And the offense created more "hockey assists" than anything else, much like you saw with Dwight Howard in Orlando. Howard WAS the reason why all of those shooters were wide open during their run to the 2009 NBA Finals...but he wasn't racking up 5+ assists per game because the Magic were swinging the ball once he kicked it back out.

Kobe's 30 points and five assists today...are no different than his 30 points and five assists in those championship seasons, EXCEPT that those 30 points are at 48%, which is the highest he's ever shot.

So, again, why should Kobe stop doing what won him five championships, and move aside for a guy who has NEVER averaged 19 PPG, who has NEVER been in the NBA Finals (let alone win a championship), who has NEVER shot the ball more than 27 times in his career and has scored 40+ just twice (I believe, both 42's)...when KB is having his best statistical season yet?

Nash is the 39-year old. We aren't going to run...because we can't run, doesn't matter what Nash does or wants to do, he can't force old players to run. Even he is having trouble, which is part of why he struggled last season in Phoenix (I'm assuming you were a Suns fan, so you should know this better than most...the team was bad, but Nash did have trouble getting up and down the court).

It makes very little sense to see Steve Nash NOT try and play off of Kobe and Dwight. He is one of the greatest shooters ever...in my opinion, the greatest shooter at his position (of all time), yet, he's not taking advantage of that.

Instead of Ron Artest taking 14 shots a night, it should be Nash.

We can't afford to play all of our guys out of their comfort zone, just to make Nash feel like he's back in Phoenix. Kobe and Dwight are superstars. Nash is a borderline all-star PG at this point. He was brought here to take SOME pressure off of Kobe, and to shoot the ball at a 50/40/90 clip, which is what he can do...not come here to act like a 25-year old Magic Johnson and turn Kobe into Byron Scott.

If Nash is so great, he will adjust accordingly. He's 39, playing limited minutes. He's nearly a PG version of Larry Bird out there, in regards to his back issues. If he's not going to change, we're going to fall to a team like the Thunder, who has a PG (Westbrook) who is faster, stronger, and would bully Nash around an entire series...and a team that is, collectively, faster than we are.


RD why aren't you one of D'Antoni's assistants?? Hell why aren't you the head coach??

#96 Real Deal

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Posted January 04, 2013 - 04:40 PM

RD why aren't you one of D'Antoni's assistants?? Hell why aren't you the head coach??

They asked me, but I would have had to give up running this place...and that's just not an option if they weren't going to pay me enough and give me 50% ownership and the rights to Jeanie Buss.

#97 Majesty

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Posted January 04, 2013 - 07:08 PM

Mike D'antoni on whether or he intends to have the Lakers play slower paces

"Absolutely!!"


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#98 jasonC

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Posted January 04, 2013 - 10:31 PM

The Lakers are now 6-14 when Kobe scores 30+ points.

The Lakers are 3-0 when Kobe scores 0-19 points.

#99 Piston Honda

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Posted January 04, 2013 - 10:34 PM

Stupid Kobe and his 38 points on 15 of 25 shooting. No way was he responsible for keeping the Lakers in it. :dance:

#100 Game

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Posted January 04, 2013 - 10:36 PM

haha, can't believe people still don't understand that 30 point statistic

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