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Why are the Knicks successful with their age and the Lakers aren't?

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#21 MDI

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Posted January 02, 2013 - 12:56 PM

LAWL

https://twitter.com/HowardBeckNYT/status/286575476321972224

Over last 12 games (7-5 record), Knicks have the 26th-ranked defense (107 pts allowed per 100 possessions).


We're 25th I believe Lol but still we shouldnt be compared the Knicks they havent been better than us

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Props to sidthekid871


#22 Alpha Four

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Posted January 02, 2013 - 01:27 PM

Just wait until Amare comes back and they suck again.

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#23 GCMD

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Posted January 02, 2013 - 02:18 PM

Without Amare, the Knicks are centered around a superstar that can carry the load scoring 25-30 a night (Melo) and they have defensive players to help back on that end of the court (Chandler, Kidd, Brewer). They aren't THAT great defending the ball...bottom half of the NBA...but to make up for that, they have surrounded Carmelo with shooters. They are arguably the best 3PT shooting team in the NBA, attempts/makes and percentage considered, and they rarely turn the ball over.

In other words, they are a real TEAM that has an offense built just for them, relying on a defensive anchor (who was DPOY last year) and a stellar defensive PG that can defend up to three positions on the court AND a two-guard (well, he's playing SF) that can do the same, not to mention solid bench players in JR Smith, Steve Novak (best shooter in the NBA) and Chris Copeland.

We aren't a team. We don't fit the offense. We have two superstars who have to have the ball and are used to creating for their teammates, and one all-star PG who is 38-39 years old who is used to creating for everyone AND running his own offense...and a PF who just doesn't want to score.


Agree to disagree. Same offense, same age, same DPOY, same number of shooters. Kidd's not a great defender anymore and nearly the same age as Nash, Felton isn't a shooter, Novak couldn't defend a wet paper bag if his life depended on it, Melo is as ball dominant as Kobe, Chandler has been more efficient offensively than Howard without nearly as much talent, Meeks is just as good of a shooter as Smith, Hill/Jamison/Meeks are all above average subs...et cetera

I could go on and on naming similarities and advantages of 2 teams running the same offense with very similar rosters but it wouldn't change anything.

The most important difference is that team has bought into the offense and they have a DEFENSIVE coach. They PRACTICE defense. Our team couldn't get the stops. Our team disappeared into Kobe ball when we needed points instead of going to bread and butter P&R. Our team isn't a team because we still have too many people pulling in different directions.

That's the only excuse.


I'm glad the Knicks are having so much success...it eliminates all of the stupid excuses our Lakers Fans are bound to come up with.



We are NOT too old. We are NOT a team. That starts and ends with Kobe, Nash, Dwight and MDA. If they can't all get on the same page, we are SCREWED.

#24 Real Deal

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Posted January 02, 2013 - 07:25 PM

The Knicks are ranked 20th, defensively. That's not what's winning them games. They live and die by the three + Melo's ISO.

#25 24allday

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Posted January 02, 2013 - 08:55 PM

Their old guys aren't as big to their team. They have Kidd, Sheed, Kurt Thomas, and Ronnie Brewer as their old guys and they aren't a big part of anything. Our old guys are Kobe, Nash, Pau, Metta. Big parts of our team while theirs aren't.

#26 Majesty

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Posted January 02, 2013 - 10:28 PM

See how they struggle without Felton?

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#27 iDreamShake

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Posted January 02, 2013 - 11:12 PM

both of their units have serious threats on the perimeter..

Kobe and Randle led Lakers lead the team to a 32-50 record. the Lakers select Myles Turner with the 5th pick.


#28 Cj2008nw

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Posted January 03, 2013 - 06:55 AM

Was Copeland mentioned in this thread lol

#29 Lagunero

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Posted January 03, 2013 - 08:55 AM

they have some players that can play some very good defense. and there team has had some time to gel.

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#30 BasketballIQ

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Posted January 03, 2013 - 09:53 AM

Training camp with their head coach

#31 SportyIntellectual

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Posted January 03, 2013 - 10:24 AM

Father Time is undefeated.

#32 GCMD

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Posted January 03, 2013 - 07:18 PM

The Knicks are ranked 20th, defensively. That's not what's winning them games. They live and die by the three + Melo's ISO.


Well if that's the case, their age shouldn't be a factor?

And for the record, I disagree about them living and dying by the 3/Melo. Woodson would disagree with you too. They are running the same sets from D'Antoni's offense with them slightly adjusted to fit Melo in.

At the end of the day, most of their assists are PG driven/distributed. That's the most important part of this offense...which most people don't understand. Once the PG makes the first pass, that should be a score or that person makes a pass to a cutter for an easy score. All of the holding the ball, waiting for clear outs is extraneous. We don't need it. The offense has to flow, which is the opposite of Melo ISO or KobeBall.

ANY team can run this offense as long as they have a PG with enough handles to create for himself and others.


You want to make an older team FASTER?

PASS
THE
BALL

No player is faster than the pass. That's what keeps the Spurs at the top of their game for long periods of time, even when their best player is injured.


KobeBall is ANTI-MDA. Until everyone accepts that and start to live with our role players making or missing shots, we can make progress. As long as Kobe has the greenlight to shoot because his "teammates are off" or his "teammates aren't being aggressive", this offense is doomed.

Say NO to KobeBall.
Say YES to sharing the BALL.

#33 GCMD

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Posted January 03, 2013 - 07:31 PM

And yes,


I'm saying we have to live with players like Meeks, Hill, Morris and MWP having off games. We have to continue to even out touches on the offensive end. This is an equal opportunity offense and that's how it should be played. Anyone one player shooting 10 more shots than anyone else on the team is unacceptable, even if it's Kobe.

Pass the ball.
Share the ball.
Get the role players into a rhythm and trust them.
Even if players miss, if they are taking good shots, you live with it, not go "Kobe".


That's not basketball. I understand coaching a talented player. You give him the greenlight and let him do what he does...but when you have this much talent on one team, that's STUPID. You're wasting other people's talent to stroke one player's ego...and it's making everyone else resentful.

You want bigs to rebound for you? You have to feed them in the post. That's a guard's DUTY. Get those bigs some easy shots and they won't have a problem protecting the house for you.

#34 BasketballIQ

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Posted January 03, 2013 - 08:20 PM

How did Metta,Pau and Dwight miss all those shots if there was no ball movement?

Melo is less of a passer than Kobe. What the hell are you getting at?

#35 Real Deal

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Posted January 03, 2013 - 08:44 PM

1) Kobe passes more than Melo.

2) Lakers (19th in assists) pass more than the Knicks (26th).

3) The Knicks DO live and die by the three. When they make over 10 threes a game this season, they are 17-3. Ten threes or less? They are 5-7.

Their two games where they made the most threes (19 and 18) were both against Miami...both blowout wins against the defending champs.

18-2 record when they shoot 37% or better from downtown...4-8 record under 37%.

The Knicks live and die by the three. They don't pass the ball much, at all...nearly last in the NBA. They are still better than the Lakers because they know that Carmelo (who is putting up similar numbers to Kobe, at 48% and 29 PPG, just less defense and less passing, lol) is the man.

#36 Drazard

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Posted January 03, 2013 - 09:30 PM

Simple Logic

Only Jason Kid playing 30 minutes or more the rest are young

unlike the Lakers

Steve Nash, Gasol, MWP, Kobe Bryant playing for 30 minutes LMAO


Don't compare knicks to the lakers cause the lakers are older than the knicks and their minutes is completely different

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#37 SportyIntellectual

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Posted January 05, 2013 - 08:52 AM

^/^^ Precisely. Don't get suckered by that ESPN graphic.

#38 Warren2ThaG

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Posted January 05, 2013 - 08:55 AM

because they have chemistry and flow which translates into vertical penetration brought it by sequence and some promotion with gratitude.

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