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The spacing on the high screen and roll with Nash and Howard

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#1 Majesty

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Posted December 25, 2012 - 02:48 AM

Alright.. THIS is astounding especially when you consider who is left wide open because the defense has to collapse each time JUST to stop Dwight from getting an easy shot at the basket.

Look at some of these pics from the Overtime game with the Warriors

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Here you have Metta on one side wide open, Kobe on the other side wide open off Nash's set, and Kobe is the one who gets this pass for the long 2 or 3 opportunity.

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Another situation where because of the high screen that the defense AGAIN must pay attention to Dwight because of the dangerousness of the high screen between him and Nash, it needs to be helped off of.

Look who is open again... Number 24... KOBE of all people HAS to be left wide open to prevent an easy score from Howard on this play. Just let that sit on your mind. In order to prevent a score on this play from the pick and roll you have to leave KOBE BRYANT open on the wing... just think about that for a moment...


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And at this point..there's nothing you can do but hope he misses.

Still the fact Kobe is going to consistently get looks like this because a team isn't going to want to give Howard the easy lane to the basket is scary. And this is just one play, high screen and roll with Dwight and Nash, the response has to be the same or Dwight will score, but in doing so Kobe is wide open on one corner or the other and more often than not BOTH Kobe and Metta are open on the corners. Which is a very scary thought for any team having to face them.

And as I said.. this is just one play they ran over and over again and Kobe and Metta were open each time.

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Final play of the game that Nash scored on.

Again look at the spacing here. Curry is way behind and Dwight is bolting to the basket, Nash could have decided to go either way with this but the defense decided not to leave Kobe in this scenario and when Nash went inside they went back to help on Kobe to not leave him, which is what gave Steve Nash the shot over Curry who was already behind in the play.


Basically put, if you stay with Kobe, you're risking Nash in the iso or Dwight getting a clear cut to the basket. If you DO help off Kobe you're leaving him wide open for a shot.

Keep in mind that this is just ONE play they ran to get this result all of these times.

High screen and roll with Dwight and Nash leaves Kobe wide open unless you give up the easy bucket for Dwight or foul him and hope for the best, and if Nash does not pass it to him he has an iso and an easy shot because whomever defends him is going to be behind on the screen.


If this is just a small sample size of the mismatches and open opportunities we'll create because of the attention that our other players demand, I like where it's headed.


Full breakdown can be seen here

http://www.silverscr...riors?ref=yahoo

But I must say.... dang we're a freaking scary team if we get the entire offense and chemistry down.. just

wow.... all I can say

Edited by Majesty, December 25, 2012 - 02:56 AM.

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#2 iDreamShake

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Posted December 25, 2012 - 03:02 AM

i second that "wow" , great post

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#3 Majesty

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Posted December 25, 2012 - 03:20 AM

i second that "wow" , great post


Seriously, I was in amazement when considering the factors in that one single play we ran over and over.


When you say "in one play we run, either Kobe, or Nash or Dwight is going to get the open shot" I just can't help but smile.

And then you consider when Kobe shifts to the 3 and Morris or Meeks are at the 2. The corner 3 is Morris' spot on the court and in Meeks case he'd be getting a wide open three. AND when Kobe is at the 3 he's STILL gonna be left open on the other side!

So it pretty much is a play all of our wing players benefit from, which is a big deal in itself too.

And again.. THIS IS JUST ONE PLAY :laughing:

Edited by Majesty, December 25, 2012 - 03:20 AM.

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#4 ツ  

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Posted December 25, 2012 - 03:25 AM

I don't know, maybe the Warriors are not a very good defensive team? I don't know what their ratings are so I could be wrong. We're basing all of this on one game let's see how the other games pan out.

#5 L.A.K.E.R

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Posted December 25, 2012 - 03:27 AM

Basically, we finally have the means to run the simplest of sets that has absolutely murdered us for as long as we can remember. Every team with a capable PG and a big that can set solid picks has featured this same play against us over the years, but we never had the personnel to accomplish it. With Nash and Howard in the fold, however, you'll see the other guys on the floor get a ton of space due to the amount of defensive attention a simple pick-and-roll will generate.

Honestly doesn't matter if it's the Warriors or an elite defensive team. The only real difference will be the hedge by the 2nd defender at the top of the pick. A team like the Heat can switch out on that hedge almost at will (like they did against OKC), but the Warriors can't do that because they lack the personnel. Then again, in the Finals last year the Heat weren't dealing with effective roll men or with a facilitator on the caliber of Nash. With Nash directing the show, it's going to be a very productive set for us because 9/10 times he will find the open man be it in the corner or off the roll.

High pick-and-roll has decimated teams for years now in the NBA, it's not going to change anytime in the near future. The only team that really comes to mind capable of switching off the hedge is Miami, but their frontline is incapable of containing Dwight on the roll without fouling him or leaving a man wide open elsewhere on the floor.

This is pretty much what most of us were envisioning after dealing for Dwight Howard in early August. Once they get it down pat, the high pick-and-roll with Nash/Howard will be one of our most effective sets. Best P&R PG, best P&R big, and you've got Kobe Bryant spotting up ready to drill open looks. It's going to be fun to watch.

#6 ツ  

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Posted December 25, 2012 - 03:31 AM

Basically, we finally have the means to run the simplest of sets that has absolutely murdered us for as long as we can remember. Every team with a capable PG and a big that can set solid picks has featured this same play against us over the years, but we never had the personnel to accomplish it. With Nash and Howard in the fold, however, you'll see the other guys on the floor get a ton of space due to the amount of defensive attention a simple pick-and-roll will generate.

Honestly doesn't matter if it's the Warriors or an elite defensive team. The only real difference will be the hedge by the 2nd defender at the top of the pick. A team like the Heat can switch out on that hedge almost at will (like they did against OKC), but the Warriors can't do that because they lack the personnel. Then again, in the Finals last year the Heat weren't dealing with effective roll men or with a facilitator on the caliber of Nash. With Nash directing the show, it's going to be a very productive set for us because 9/10 times he will find the open man be it in the corner or off the roll.

High pick-and-roll has decimated teams for years now in the NBA, it's not going to change anytime in the near future. The only team that really comes to mind capable of switching off the hedge is Miami, but their frontline is incapable of containing Dwight on the roll without fouling him or leaving a man wide open elsewhere on the floor.

This is pretty much what most of us were envisioning after dealing for Dwight Howard in early August. Once they get it down pat, the high pick-and-roll with Nash/Howard will be one of our most effective sets. Best P&R PG, best P&R big, and you've got Kobe Bryant spotting up ready to drill open looks. It's going to be fun to watch.


funny how mike brown couldn't think of this simple offensive scheme. princeton offense my ass.

#7 iDreamShake

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Posted December 25, 2012 - 03:31 AM

I don't know, maybe the Warriors are not a very good defensive team? I don't know what their ratings are so I could be wrong. We're basing all of this on one game let's see how the other games pan out.


nope, help with a foot in the paint is the standard teaching for a weak side defender with his man in the corner. if he doesnt help off of kobe with a foot in the paint ,its a lob. the kick to kobe on that weak side will be great, kobe will either shoot/drive on a off balance recovering defender closing out/or pass into dwight sealing his defender on the low block. all in all, this is standard shell defense tho.

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#8 GO24Seven

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Posted December 25, 2012 - 03:33 AM

yeah they kept running the same play over and over again late in the 4th and OT. Its amazing what happens when you switch Chris Duhon with Steve Nash. lol. Wether its MWP or Jodie Meeks in the corners with Kobe on the opposite corner, the other team is gonna have to give something up. Also if they close hard on Kobe in the corner, Kobe can drive hard to the basket baseline. The help defense comes from the big man rotating off of Dwight on the roll. Which open up the Lob for Dwight. :yes: It's going to be amazing seeing them run it. Every single one of them capitalized on it and made big shots down the stretch. It was refreshing seeing them not just give it to Kobe and play iso ball.

Edited by GO24Seven, December 25, 2012 - 03:46 AM.


#9 PhillyLaker24

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Posted December 25, 2012 - 08:44 AM

I don't know, maybe the Warriors are not a very good defensive team? I don't know what their ratings are so I could be wrong. We're basing all of this on one game let's see how the other games pan out.



A lot of it had to do was it was in OT and they had break down in defenses. Most of the game when the high pick and roll was used our shooters were not that wide open. They had lapses on defense in OT really. However, when it was used earlier in the game people were left open but not nearly that wide open more for a split second and the warriors rotated well. I think in OT it was more effective because it was being run with Howard, and for most the game he was on the pine with fouls. Running it with Pau is fine but the defense didnt crash on the PnR nearly as much when it was gasol, I wonder why.... Dwight in the PnR is much more deadly than Pau and defenses know that. When that big guy gets a running start down the lane on the high PnR its pretty much hard to stop because the defense has to account for Dwight throwing down as monster slam rather than the gasol with a sweet drive as seen late in OT, but there were also lapses on defense that left our wing players open a lot more than they did all game.

I think the high PnR will become a staple for our O and is deadly, but GS played it very poorly late in the game, then again its a very hard thing to cover period.

Edited by PhillyLaker24, December 25, 2012 - 08:48 AM.

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#10 lodom7

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Posted December 25, 2012 - 09:14 AM

This will be unstoppable come playoff time, however, we need to keep or offensive options open and keep working on our defense
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#11 iDreamShake

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Posted December 25, 2012 - 10:57 AM

this thread is underrated,smh

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#12 Disaster in Paradise

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Posted December 25, 2012 - 11:17 AM

Crazy how the Lakers could not see this before.

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#13 reryo

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Posted December 25, 2012 - 11:31 AM

This will be unstoppable come playoff time, however, we need to keep or offensive options open and keep working on our defense


Yeah, we need to throw different looks out there to opponents. I also like the off-the-ball screens by Nash while Gasol has the ball at the top of the key and is scanning the floor.

#14 Estate

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Posted December 25, 2012 - 11:34 AM

Please stay healthy....that's all I hope.

#15 Majesty

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Posted December 25, 2012 - 02:57 PM

Ran this midway through late in the 4th quarter, Knicks could do nothing to stop it. Especially when Dwight is making his free throws. Nash also got a wide open layup he missed with it, which won't happen often.

Yeah this is our go to play late in games. for sure!

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#16 last stand 2.0

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Posted December 25, 2012 - 03:26 PM

Should run the Dwight and Nash set more often
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#17 KarlCalaguas12

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Posted December 25, 2012 - 03:30 PM

Once Howard gets healthier and spends more time with Nash, the offense would be unstoppable.

#18 Majesty

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Posted December 25, 2012 - 03:36 PM

As well as how effectively Kobe works out of it, got over 30 tonight shooting a sky high percentage and got us back into the game in the 3rd and played a very controlled game. Similar to the role Jordan played on the Bulls. Kobe gets to actually be a TRUE SG now even when playing SF.

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#19 Majesty

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Posted December 25, 2012 - 04:41 PM

I will also say this, on the final play of todays game the one Gasol dunked on. The reason Gasol got the open lane was because Kidd committed to guarding Kobe in the out of bounds leaving Gasol wide open so when Nash threw it in Kidd couldn't rotate on time to stop it and even so they were double teaming Dwight on the other side so because of the attention Kobe and Dwight demanded, Pau got what was probably the most open lane of his entire career. Someone's always gonna be open because of the need to double team Kobe and Dwight in those situations. I wonder if someone has that clip.

Even so, since our late game offense seems based around this and the above, all it comes down to is chemistry and it will be our go to play down the stretch for MANY more games to come.

Edited by Majesty, December 25, 2012 - 04:44 PM.

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#20 Ace

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Posted December 25, 2012 - 06:05 PM

The offense never seemed to worry me coming into this season, It was the defense of the team that made me apprehensive. In any case, good read.. its nice to see how open kobe can get without working so hard.
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