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Race to the MVP

Official MVP Talk 2012-13

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#41 NYCLakerfan

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Posted December 23, 2012 - 09:25 PM

its ultimately gonna come down to durant and melo


I'd give it to Durant for now but if the Knicks play this well or better when Amare comes back and finishes first in the East based on how the award is given out I'd give it to Melo.

#42 Paris

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Posted December 23, 2012 - 09:47 PM

LeBron is a better finisher, better in the post, better rebounder, amazingly better passer, FAR better defender (on-ball and help), and because the ring says so (and his two Finals appearances), he's a better leader than Carmelo Anthony. He's more efficient...he has a higher FG%, higher TS%, higher PER, higher eFG%, higher basketball IQ.


melo is a better post player, he's a better shooter. better rebounder is debatable. bron is overrated defensively, although he is better than melo defensively. and melo is more clutch. melo has better footwork also. and melo's been playing in the west for basically his whole career. west has produced 8 of the last 12 nba champions since 2000. and im pretty sure the stars have never aligned for melo quite like they did for bron last year considering their most dangerous contender's superstar went down with in injury in the first round. not taking anythng away from lebron tho, he may be the best player in the nba, but he's far from perfect.

and about the mvp award, either lebron or durant will win it no matter what. nba machine has already decided that before the season started. and yes, im a bitter kobe fan, lol.

Edited by Paris, December 23, 2012 - 09:50 PM.


#43 NYCLakerfan

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Posted December 23, 2012 - 09:51 PM

Melo' s got the better mid range too not to mention he usually outplayed Lebron in their head to head match ups, Melo' s my 2nd favorite player I gotta defend him a little

#44 PhillyLaker24

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Posted December 23, 2012 - 09:54 PM

You completely missed the point. I gave you a nine-game span (and chose the first nine games) to show you that the Knicks had the best record in the NBA with Carmelo shooting poorly, that this Knicks team didn't need him to shoot that well to win games.

Moving on...


The Heat (LeBron), Thunder (Durant) and Clippers (CP3) all have unselfish players, especially two of those teams. Those players truly help their teammates more than Carmelo Anthony. Saying anything else...well, you might as well tell me that a prime Dwyane Wade was a better teammate than Magic Johnson, since Magic couldn't average 30 a night.


LeBron is a better finisher, better in the post, better rebounder, amazingly better passer, FAR better defender (on-ball and help), and because the ring says so (and his two Finals appearances), he's a better leader than Carmelo Anthony. He's more efficient...he has a higher FG%, higher TS%, higher PER, higher eFG%, higher basketball IQ.

Melo can't hold LeBron's jockstrap...and I could go on for days, crushing Anthony.

You can say nearly the same things about Durant, also...and Durant is the better scorer (might as well call LeBron the better scorer, also, since he would be dumping in 30 a night without Bosh and Wade).


???

Okay. Doesn't change the fact that he's undeserving of the award. LeBron and Durant are better players, and Carmelo will ALWAYS play second fiddle to each of them.

Quote all of this, so we can come back to it in June.


When did I ever say Melo is the better player? Thought this debate was about who was deserving of the MVP?

To me Melo deserves the award MVP has nothing to do with being the best player in the league, while it can be used to justify the best player, one does not have to be the best to get it. Melo probably will always not be seen in the same class as durant and bron, but this year his play is the reason the knicks are the best team in the league. IMO making him the most valuable to his team succes.

You made a lot of points some pertaining to the topic and some not, its late dont feel like sifting through it all right now.

You can quote anything you want for June, I can't predict the future and neither can you, but as of right now I feel that Melo is the MVP. Will he be in June? Only God knows, but I can only speak on what has already happened and with that information Melo seems like the MVP to me, you dont have to agree. People rarely do on discussion boards anyway lol

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#45 Paris

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Posted December 23, 2012 - 09:54 PM

he's one of my favorites too.

1. KOBE
2. ROSE
3. MELO(was wade till he decided to play second fiddle to lebron)
4. Russell Westbrook
5. Josh Smith


#46 NYCLakerfan

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Posted December 23, 2012 - 10:03 PM

Mines

1. Kobe
2.Melo
3. Rose
4. Nash
5.Amare idgaf if ppl think he fell off I still support him


And as far as Lebron being a better one on one defender than Melo I think that's debatable, I think Lebron puts more effort on on the defensive end but I think when Melo tries he' s just as good as Lebron in that department which I think is the most overrated part of Brons game his one on one D. He is a great team/ help defender tho

Edited by NYCLakerfan, December 23, 2012 - 10:07 PM.


#47 Cowboys&LakersFan

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Posted December 23, 2012 - 10:59 PM

Melo is NOT an MVP candidate. Stop it.
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#48 Real Deal

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Posted December 24, 2012 - 12:02 AM

melo is a better post player

Not even close. LeBron ripped through the league with the best post game, per percentages, among all NBA players (including centers). Melo didn't. You also don't have to double Melo in the post, but you do LeBron. Teams paid dearly for it when they didn't last year.

he's a better shooter

Of course, and Steve Novak is the best shooter in the NBA.

better rebounder is debatable

In what video game? Aside from their rookie season, Melo has never averaged more boards than LeBron in any season. Career average favors LeBron, just to add icing to the cake.

Willing to bet LeBron's TRB% is also higher, despite the circumstances over the years.

bron is overrated defensively

I've proven this wrong time and time again, so now it's someone else's turn to prove it right. It means nothing if you guys are just going to type out that one sentence.

melo is more clutch

Percentage-wise, probably so...but assisted on almost three times as many shots. By percentages, Monta Ellis was more clutch than almost everyone in the NBA, including Kobe Bryant, but we know who we'd rather have with the ball in their hands late in games.

melo has better footwork also

Not since last season, and Melo's footwork is irrelevant if he's not going to play in the post enough to cause damage with it.

melo's been playing in the west for basically his whole career. west has produced 8 of the last 12 nba champions since 2000. and im pretty sure the stars have never aligned for melo quite like they did for bron last year considering their most dangerous contender's superstar went down with in injury in the first round. not taking anythng away from lebron tho, he may be the best player in the nba, but he's far from perfect.

LeBron and Melo came into the NBA in 2003-04. Since their arrival, the West has produced five champions, the East four. Neither player had to play against the Kobe/Shaq duo after their rookie season, so there's no point in mentioning their dominance of the West.

Stars have never aligned for Carmelo Anthony? LeBron's Cavaliers teams were never as talented as Melo's Denver teams, and yet, LeBron found his way into the NBA Finals in 2007. The stars did align for him, but he decided to be a selfish player, turn his head and tune out George Karl, and laugh -- on the court -- when he lost a playoff series.

Carmelo had plenty of chances. He's what...15-34 in the playoffs? Seven first-round exits? 1-8 since being a Knick?

---------------------

The LeBron hate on this board has always been unreal.

#49 Real Deal

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Posted December 24, 2012 - 12:08 AM

For the way the MVP award is handed out you gotta say Melo is above Lebron right now just because the Knicks are playing better than the Heat regardless of if the Knicks were winning when Melo wasn't this hot just him being the best players on one of the best teams and that's what the award is about.

Mines

1. Kobe
2.Melo
3. Rose
4. Nash
5.Amare
idgaf if ppl think he fell off I still support him

?

And how does Amare and Rose even quality?

---------------

By the way, guys...hate to break hearts here, but...

EASTERN CONFERENCE
1) Miami (18-6, .750)
2) New York (20-7, .741)

Miami is the best team in the Eastern Conference...and before anyone reminds me of the two regular season games they played against each other, please go back to 2009 and let me know the number of times Orlando beat the Lakers in the regular season, before we beat them 4-1 in the NBA Finals (the answer is two...both games).

#50 Majesty

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Posted December 24, 2012 - 12:38 AM

Not even close. LeBron ripped through the league with the best post game, per percentages, among all NBA players (including centers). Melo didn't. You also don't have to double Melo in the post, but you do LeBron. Teams paid dearly for it when they didn't last year.


Of course, and Steve Novak is the best shooter in the NBA.


In what video game? Aside from their rookie season, Melo has never averaged more boards than LeBron in any season. Career average favors LeBron, just to add icing to the cake.

Willing to bet LeBron's TRB% is also higher, despite the circumstances over the years.


I've proven this wrong time and time again, so now it's someone else's turn to prove it right. It means nothing if you guys are just going to type out that one sentence.


Percentage-wise, probably so...but assisted on almost three times as many shots. By percentages, Monta Ellis was more clutch than almost everyone in the NBA, including Kobe Bryant, but we know who we'd rather have with the ball in their hands late in games.


Not since last season, and Melo's footwork is irrelevant if he's not going to play in the post enough to cause damage with it.


LeBron and Melo came into the NBA in 2003-04. Since their arrival, the West has produced five champions, the East four. Neither player had to play against the Kobe/Shaq duo after their rookie season, so there's no point in mentioning their dominance of the West.

Stars have never aligned for Carmelo Anthony? LeBron's Cavaliers teams were never as talented as Melo's Denver teams, and yet, LeBron found his way into the NBA Finals in 2007. The stars did align for him, but he decided to be a selfish player, turn his head and tune out George Karl, and laugh -- on the court -- when he lost a playoff series.

Carmelo had plenty of chances. He's what...15-34 in the playoffs? Seven first-round exits? 1-8 since being a Knick?

---------------------

The LeBron hate on this board has always been unreal.


Nope but it was the Nuggets team that offered us our biggest challenge in our first championship of the last two.

If I remember correctly that Nuggets team took us 7 games and it was an absolute battle between both Carmelo and Kobe Bryant.

We were on a mission that year and no team could stop us but the team that came the absolute closest was probably Denver and Houston but to be honest I was much more worried about Denver than I was of Houston because Kobe took it upon himself to defend Carmelo and Kobe has gone on record with saying that Carmelo is harder to defend for him personally than LeBron is.

In your opinion why do you think that is?

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#51 Real Deal

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Posted December 24, 2012 - 01:32 AM

Nope but it was the Nuggets team that offered us our biggest challenge in our first championship of the last two.

If I remember correctly that Nuggets team took us 7 games and it was an absolute battle between both Carmelo and Kobe Bryant.

We were on a mission that year and no team could stop us but the team that came the absolute closest was probably Denver and Houston but to be honest I was much more worried about Denver than I was of Houston because Kobe took it upon himself to defend Carmelo and Kobe has gone on record with saying that Carmelo is harder to defend for him personally than LeBron is.

In your opinion why do you think that is?

We beat Denver 4-2 in that series, blew them out in Game 6 by a score of 119-92.

Melo had one good shooting game, and we didn't even have to double him.

GM1: 39 PTS on 14-20 FG (70.0%), 6 REB, 4 AST
GM2: 34 PTS on 12-29 FG (41.4%), 9 REB, 4 AST
GM3: 21 PTS on 4-13 FG (30.8%), 5 REB, 3 AST
GM4: 15 PTS on 3-16 FG (18.8%), 3 REB, 5 AST
GM5: 31 PTS on 9-23 FG (39.1%), 4 REB, 4 AST
GM6: 25 PTS on 6-17 FG (35.3%), 2 REB, 2 AST
-------------
TOT: 27.5 PPG on 48-118 FG (40.7%), 4.8 RPG, 3.7 APG

The game he played well in...was Game 1, which we won. People talk about Kobe shooting too much and not helping his teammates...but he throws passes. Carmelo literally took over the offense when he had the ball, and when it was all said and done, he was walking down the court, with a smirk on his face, as his team was getting blown out in Game 6.

Kobe has more trouble defending Carmelo for two reasons:

1) Carmelo stretches the floor and will shoot the three, and Kobe wears down quicker having to defend 24 feet of floor every single play.

2) Carmelo doesn't want to pass.

If LeBron looked to score as much as Melo, and if he wanted to shoot the three every open chance he had...then Kobe would be saying Bron is the toughest assignment.

However, LeBron knows how valuable his teammates can be, and that ability he has to pass the ball after creating their shots is why he has a ring, and Carmelo will likely end up a Charles Barkley and Reggie Miller, rather than a champion.

#52 NYCLakerfan

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Posted December 24, 2012 - 10:27 AM

?

And how does Amare and Rose even quality?

---------------

By the way, guys...hate to break hearts here, but...

EASTERN CONFERENCE
1) Miami (18-6, .750)
2) New York (20-7, .741)

Miami is the best team in the Eastern Conference...and before anyone reminds me of the two regular season games they played against each other, please go back to 2009 and let me know the number of times Orlando beat the Lakers in the regular season, before we beat them 4-1 in the NBA Finals (the answer is two...both games).


Thats my favorite players list I already gave my MVP list bruh

Yea percentage wise the Heat have the better record but NY has been playing the better basketball for most of this early season so far, and why'd you highlight the other part of what I said because it is true that Melo is the best player on one of the best teams in the league, it's not like I said the best team in the league.

And another thing yea Lebron had statistically the most effective post game but that doesn't mean he has the best there's no way Lebron has a better post game than Kobe or Melo, he has a simpler game down there that uses more brute strength than skill like those two. Thats like saying because Shaq had a more efficient post game it was better that Hakeem's or Mchale's.

Like a few of us said the way the MVP award is handed out Melo is a top candidate thats why we'll most likely see him finish in the top 3 for MVP voting this year.

Kobe himself said he has the most trouble guarding Melo because he is a skilled isolation player that has great size.

Edited by NYCLakerfan, December 24, 2012 - 01:24 PM.


#53 LakeShow805

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Posted December 24, 2012 - 12:48 PM

Melo is NOT an MVP candidate. Stop it.

lol/...and Kevin Love isn't a franchise player. Stop talking.

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#54 KB24BlackMamba

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Posted December 24, 2012 - 07:34 PM

Melo is great at one thing: Scoring. If I need to my player do to something else besides scoring also, I would take Durant,Kobe,James,CP3,DH12 over him any day . But yea, if the Knicks finish 1st in the league, Melo will probably get it, just like Rose, even though James deserved it.
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#55 Paris

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Posted December 24, 2012 - 09:20 PM

Melo is great at one thing: Scoring. If I need to my player do to something else besides scoring also, I would take Durant,Kobe,James,CP3,DH12 over him any day . But yea, if the Knicks finish 1st in the league, Melo will probably get it, just like Rose, even though James deserved it.


No, if anything dwight would/should have got it if rose didn't.


#56 Paris

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Posted December 24, 2012 - 09:41 PM

Not even close. LeBron ripped through the league with the best post game, per percentages, among all NBA players (including centers). Melo didn't. You also don't have to double Melo in the post, but you do LeBron. Teams paid dearly for it when they didn't last year.


Of course, and Steve Novak is the best shooter in the NBA.


In what video game? Aside from their rookie season, Melo has never averaged more boards than LeBron in any season. Career average favors LeBron, just to add icing to the cake.

Willing to bet LeBron's TRB% is also higher, despite the circumstances over the years.


I've proven this wrong time and time again, so now it's someone else's turn to prove it right. It means nothing if you guys are just going to type out that one sentence.


Percentage-wise, probably so...but assisted on almost three times as many shots. By percentages, Monta Ellis was more clutch than almost everyone in the NBA, including Kobe Bryant, but we know who we'd rather have with the ball in their hands late in games.


Not since last season, and Melo's footwork is irrelevant if he's not going to play in the post enough to cause damage with it.


LeBron and Melo came into the NBA in 2003-04. Since their arrival, the West has produced five champions, the East four. Neither player had to play against the Kobe/Shaq duo after their rookie season, so there's no point in mentioning their dominance of the West.

Stars have never aligned for Carmelo Anthony? LeBron's Cavaliers teams were never as talented as Melo's Denver teams, and yet, LeBron found his way into the NBA Finals in 2007. The stars did align for him, but he decided to be a selfish player, turn his head and tune out George Karl, and laugh -- on the court -- when he lost a playoff series.

Carmelo had plenty of chances. He's what...15-34 in the playoffs? Seven first-round exits? 1-8 since being a Knick?

---------------------

The LeBron hate on this board has always been unreal.


Per Percentages? the guy doesn't even really post up. he just gets the ball in the post and turns and faces up and does what he has always been doing, spearing his way to the paint. it helps the he get the ULTIMATE SUPERDUPERSTAR TREATMENT. forget the percentages, i see with my 20/20. melo is a better post player skill wise then, there, how about that.


you'd rather have the ball in the hands of lebron( the guy who notoriously is scared of the big moments) over melo? last time i checked melo has hit the most games winners in the nba since like 2007. im not sure of the exact year but im sure you will correct me.

and what did lebron proceed to do when he got there? oh yeah, SAS brought the broom and dustpan.

we all know the laker were the better team. let's not go there.

and lastly, i don't hate lebron, i hate this idea of lebron is the greatest thing ever. i hate the nba machine. i hate the beyond superstar treatment that he get's. i hate the fact that lebron will go 6 games w/o getting a foul called on him, but our two best players just had 5 fouls a piece the previous game we played. i hate that the league had the audacity to have him runner up to dwight for defensive player of the year because he has a mean chase down block. i hate that the league has basically bypass kobe and everybody else, and is basically implying the lebron is better than everyone ever except jordan, when in reality; he couldn't lace kobe's boots in his prime. in other words, i hate the NBA' s potrayal of lebron james.

and i say lebron is overrated defensively because he is. everytime he has a noteworthy defensive assignment, he gets torched. only reason durant didn't average 50 pts on 50 pct shooting in the finals( instead of 30 on 50 pct.) is because the refs intetionally kept him in foul trouble almost every game of the series. an out of his prime MWP did a better job on durant in the second round last year (26 on 45% i think it was) then the defensive wizard in lebron james. lebron is a great help defender and in transition, but as far as 1on1 defense is concerned; i have yet to see it.

Edited by Paris, December 24, 2012 - 09:53 PM.


#57 Ace

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Posted December 25, 2012 - 06:16 PM

Hate it or love it, the MVP trophy is Lebrons award to lose year in year out.. its the NBA after all. KD a close second right now. I just don't see the knicks sustaining their high level of play long enough for Melo to win the award.

1. Lebron
2. KD
3. CP3
4. Melo
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#58 Mehran The Great

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Posted December 25, 2012 - 07:23 PM

Why lebron? Doesn't he have 2 super stars? He has a lot of help. The value of MVP is going down. The MVP is a joke. Lebron has 3. Kobe has 1. Durant was more valuable than lebron last year. Don't give me brons numbers. I know it was a crazy stats. But. No.

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#59 Ace

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Posted December 26, 2012 - 03:02 PM

Why lebron? Doesn't he have 2 super stars? He has a lot of help. The value of MVP is going down. The MVP is a joke. Lebron has 3. Kobe has 1. Durant was more valuable than lebron last year. Don't give me brons numbers. I know it was a crazy stats. But. No.


And the best record in the league. The usual recipe for the NBA MVP lately.
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#60 Massacre

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Posted January 21, 2013 - 11:19 AM

Halfway there.

Kevin Durant at the top of my list, LeBron not far behind. If the Thunder finish with the best record in the league and Durant leads the league in scoring (with his ridiculous percentages) it would be stupid to not give it to him.

Here's NBA.com's Ladder (for however much you care about it) ...

http://www.nba.com/m...2-13/index.html


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