59 replies to this topic

[Real Deal]

Based on that stat, I'd give it to James right now. However, I don't like to base basketball awards solely on statistics, but the other things the players do on the court to make their team better. This'll be interesting.

The Thunder and Heat have to win 50+ games this season, and LeBron and Durant have to stick with the numbers they're putting up right now.

Everything else in the MVP race is getting irrelevant when you're battling these two. If Chris Paul wants it, he's going to have to put up more points, or the Clippers need to finish with the best record in the NBA. LeBron and Durant may have more help (although the Clippers are a deep team, LeBron has two all-star teammates and I'd say that the Westbrook/Ibaka/Martin trio is better than any trio of CP3's teammates), but the only player that has soaked in votes using that argument was Derrick Rose, on a 62-win Bulls team (the 62 wins is what really caught voters' eyes, and the fact that Rose was basically the offense).

Who's at the top? What's the rest of your top 5 look like and who has the best chance to stop what you stated from happening?

TODAY
1) Kevin Durant
2) LeBron James

3) Carmelo Anthony
4) Chris Paul
5) Kobe Bryant

It's very hard to stick Kobe in there, but the truth is, with the improved efficiency and the scoring load at 34 years old, he would be considered despite the record. Not top three, not above the four I named, but right now, they would consider it.

Melo gets it over CP3 just because Carmelo is without Amare, with a group containing what were considered out-of-shape, dysfunctional, and old players (from Felton and Kidd to JR Smith and, well, Melo himself) after losing a player (Jeremy Lin) who nearly stole the spotlight from everyone in the city of New York.

And because while both have beaten quality teams, the Clippers' current 12-game winning streak has featured quite a few of the NBA's bottom-feeders.

Honestly, Kobe has the best chance at stopping it from happening (from Durant or LBJ getting the award), but it won't go down that way, because the Lakers aren't going to end up with the best record in the NBA. Quite frankly, he would need to make that happen, and I doubt any of the players above could turn it around THAT fast.

Yea thats because the MVP is also a popularity race at times. Melo right now deserves it hands down. Has put the knicks on his back and is balling his ass off. He is avg 28 points with 48% from the field and 46% from three. Knicks are the best team in the east because of him.

But Melo still doesn't play defense, and drop the hammer if the guy would ever decide to pass the ball. At least Kevin Durant is making an effort to be more of a facilitator. The Knicks' offense is running straight through Carmelo Anthony when they expect him to score, and through whatever PG is on the floor when Melo isn't involved.

I have a gut feeling things won't be so shiny in New York once Amare returns, because both are almost identical in style. Of course, Melo stretches the floor out FAR better (we know that) and Amare is better in a pick and roll (we'll see how fun that gets with Kidd), both will need the ball to play up to their potential, and simply put, both will need to learn how to defer a little more...maybe even help each other out.

That's if we're looking at the offensive end.

However how do the defensive numbers stack up? In terms of all around complete game?

LeBron is more of a helper, and that's where his reputation will always rest. It's the same with Kobe, although Bryant is an outstanding on-ball defender when assigned such a role, but that's rare given that most of our guys can't defend on the ball AND require a roaming defender.

Durant seems to be the better on-ball defender, and while people criticize him for his defense, he can actually lock a lot of guys down late in games. The role he is written in for, offensively, doesn't allow much of that, though...and when you have a guy like Thabo Sefolosha, then defensive players in Westbrook and Ibaka, you really don't have to grind that hard and waste offensive energy.

Because James is the better defender, hands down...Durant has to be the more lethal scorer...and he is.

Complete game? LeBron and Kobe are the only two in the NBA with it. Maybe Chris Paul, although he struggles rebounding (and his height and knees are a reason for that, but we can't consider someone like Kareem to have a complete game since his ball-handling was never elite AND he was never a threat from outside...that's just how life goes). Durant has a few steps to go...has to improve defensively (and show it consistently), but more importantly (and this is HUGE), he has to develop a post game.

Over the years, that's the one thing that kept me from calling LeBron the best player in the NBA...he didn't have a post game. I mentioned this so many times, I laugh when I type it (no joke). Last season, when he developed the most effective post game in the NBA, it won Miami their championship. I don't care what shots Mike Miller made down the stretch, or how much Mario Chalmers stepped up in a few games...LeBron's post game changed it all for Miami once the 2011-12 season took off.

In a way, Kevin Durant reminds me of a taller Tracy McGrady (but definitely not the passer, because T-Mac was nasty passing the ball). Only difference is, Durant is starting to work on filling those holes. McGrady declined to, and wanted to bulk up instead.

Right now, Durant is the only guy who can dethrone LeBron James.

[bigfetz]

I think if the lakers had a better record kobe could easily be top 3. It wasnt to long ago he was averaging 29 ppg on 50+% and 40% form the 3. He could get that back up with nash possibly coming back. If the lakers can get there [expletive] together than this kobe will have a legit chance at winning the MVP. He's having one of his best years ever.

[Real Deal]

I think if the lakers had a better record kobe could easily be top 3. It wasnt to long ago he was averaging 29 ppg on 50+% and 40% form the 3. He could get that back up with nash possibly coming back. If the lakers can get there [expletive] together than this kobe will have a legit chance at winning the MVP. He's having one of his best years ever.

Maybe, but I don't see how he'd get it without the best record in the league, because sadly...voters will look at Nash as the savior and that valuable piece. If LA goes from 12-14 (11th in the West) to a 50+ win squad (38-18 from here on out), a lot of that will stack on the two-time MVP's shoulders, no matter what. That's just how Kobe will be looked at.

And that's assuming LA goes 38-18 JUST to get to 50 wins. If I'm right, and they need 60+ (and they get it), we're asking them to go 48-8.

If the Lakers go 48-8 from here on out, Kobe will most certainly win the MVP with 28+ PPG and the highest FG% of his career (48%). Doubt it, though. I'd be amazed if it happens just like that.

[NYCLakerfan]

To me its KD, CP3, and Melo in that order for right now

[Majesty]

If the Lakers go 48-8 from here on out, Kobe will most certainly win the MVP with 28+ PPG and the highest FG% of his career (48%). Doubt it, though. I'd be amazed if it happens just like that.

i will make this my new signature of that happens

[PhillyLaker24]

But Melo still doesn't play defense, and drop the hammer if the guy would ever decide to pass the ball. At least Kevin Durant is making an effort to be more of a facilitator. The Knicks' offense is running straight through Carmelo Anthony when they expect him to score, and through whatever PG is on the floor when Melo isn't involved.

I have a gut feeling things won't be so shiny in New York once Amare returns, because both are almost identical in style. Of course, Melo stretches the floor out FAR better (we know that) and Amare is better in a pick and roll (we'll see how fun that gets with Kidd), both will need the ball to play up to their potential, and simply put, both will need to learn how to defer a little more...maybe even help each other out.

I understand that you dont believe things will stay honky dorey in NYC when Amare comes back, which is a good assumption but as of right now Melo still deserves it. I can only make a guess based on what has been shown, who knows when or even if ever that Amare is coming back. MVP is the player that is the most valuable to his teams sucess, the knicks went from a barely over .500 ball club to the best team in the east right now all due to the play of Melo.

Yes, there are other little things that have attributed to the success of the Knicks but the number one thing is no doubt the play of Melo. People attributed the problems the Knicks were having last year to the play of Melo (when lin came and they started winning all fingers pointed to melo being the reason things werent working when he was hurt and Lin was winning games, after they booted D'antoni out of town of course.) The same should be said for why they are winning right now. Melo is probably having the most efficent year of his career right now and the knicks are winning from that.

Brons numbers are basically the same as last year with a dip in scoring and same for cp3. While they are both the main reason their teams are winning, Melo is the reason the Knicks have turned things around and are the best team in the east right now which is why I think he deserves it. Being the catalyst for your teams new success and having the most efficent year of your career screams an MVP season to me.

[foreveryoung]

Mine's is: K.D, Melo, Paul, Lebron, Kobe.

[Real Deal]

I understand that you dont believe things will stay honky dorey in NYC when Amare comes back, which is a good assumption but as of right now Melo still deserves it. I can only make a guess based on what has been shown, who knows when or even if ever that Amare is coming back. MVP is the player that is the most valuable to his teams sucess, the knicks went from a barely over .500 ball club to the best team in the east right now all due to the play of Melo.

Yes, there are other little things that have attributed to the success of the Knicks but the number one thing is no doubt the play of Melo. People attributed the problems the Knicks were having last year to the play of Melo (when lin came and they started winning all fingers pointed to melo being the reason things werent working when he was hurt and Lin was winning games, after they booted D'antoni out of town of course.) The same should be said for why they are winning right now. Melo is probably having the most efficent year of his career right now and the knicks are winning from that.

Brons numbers are basically the same as last year with a dip in scoring and same for cp3. While they are both the main reason their teams are winning, Melo is the reason the Knicks have turned things around and are the best team in the east right now which is why I think he deserves it. Being the catalyst for your teams new success and having the most efficent year of your career screams an MVP season to me.

Well, just so you know, Carmelo was 79-176 (44.9% FG) when the Knicks started the season 8-1.

They are #1 in turnovers, and the reason isn't Carmelo (who leads the team in TO's), but the likes of Jason Kidd, JR Smith, Tyson Chandler, Ronnie Brewer and Steve Novak, all playing significant minutes and taking good care of the ball.

They are an incredible three-point shooting team, #1 in attempts and makes, #3 in percentage...and while Melo is shooting VERY well from beyond the arc, giving the Knicks five a night, a good chunk of the team is hitting around 18 threes a night at 37% or better.

Melo has 125 threes this year. The rest of the team? They have made 637.

Kidd, Felton, and Brewer are leading the team in steals...and the team, as a whole, are 3rd in the NBA. Smith and Prigioni are after those three, Melo sixth.

----------

In other words, when you go and seek what the Knicks are really, really good at...it's not all on Melo. Their strongest points (three-point shooting, lack of turnovers, steals/creating TO's) rests on a lot of their players' shoulders.

Additionally, we know Carmelo isn't a defensive player, and he's not a passer (5th on the team, assists), so...we're saying that he scores a lot of points at a high efficiency? That should give him the MVP over a complete player like LeBron James, or a guy who does more in Kevin Durant? Nah.

[Real Deal]

By the way, the problem with last year's team stemmed from having two of the same exact player in the starting five, demanding the ball...and when Jeremy Lin showed his face, things did a 180 because he was a ball distributor.

The difference between Carmelo Anthony...and scorers ranging from LeBron and Kobe to McGrady and now Durant...is that Carmelo doesn't look to pass the ball.

[J-H!zZl3]

By the way, the problem with last year's team stemmed from having two of the same exact player in the starting five, demanding the ball...and when Jeremy Lin showed his face, things did a 180 because he was a ball distributor.

The difference between Carmelo Anthony...and scorers ranging from LeBron and Kobe to McGrady and now Durant...is that Carmelo doesn't look to pass the ball.

Agreed. Which is why most of us knew that pairing Melo with STAT was a recipe for disaster. Two players who need the ball in their hands to be effective and are great at doing one thing, SCORE! They essentially bring nothing else to the table. With Amare being out, Melo has been able to play the 4 position, and he essentially scores and rebounds.

I have said this many of times, and I'm sure you'll agree with me but what makes it so difficult to put Melo in the same conversation as players like Kobe, Wade (when he was healthy and in his prime), LeBron, and even T-Mac in his prime like you stated was that those guys were all around players who also made their teammates better and could also defend when needed. I know some will say that Kobe is a ball hog and he shoots a lot but he has proven through out his career that he can adapt to any situation and do whatever that is needed for his team to win. If that means, score, rebound, defend, facilitate. etc. And all of these players mentioned aside from Melo were able to do this.

[Real Deal]

For one, I don't like the MVP award. Something is seriously wrong when Steve Nash, who has no defensive skills whatsoever, can win two MVP awards and have one more than Kobe and Shaq.

Quite frankly, the league doesn't define the award the same every year, and it's annoying. D-Rose won it for being the offense in Chicago (he wasn't that great defensively...and they forget that Deng and Booz still put up 34-35 a game together). Chicago won 62 games that year, a LOT of that based on their defense (1st in the NBA on defense, 11th in offense), but because Rose led a team to 62 wins, he gets it.

Rose wasn't a top five player in the NBA.

However, LeBron James can win 5-6 MVP awards, despite having Wade and Bosh by his side.

Yet, Kobe and Shaq can't win but just two combined MVP's because they played together.

Meanwhile, Dirk Nowitzki wins an MVP award because Dallas won 67 games...then proceeded to get knocked out of the first round as a #1 seeded team. Dirk, who doesn't play defense, and had teammates averaging 19 and 17 a night (Josh Howard and Jason Terry) on high percentages (46% FG and 39% 3PT for Howard, 48% and 44% for Terry), gets the award for being the commander of a 67-win squad that ranked #5 in defense, so more people were involved than we were led to believe.

If it's about doing it with less help, then Nash surely gets consideration for one of his MVP awards for what he did with an Amare-less Suns team, winning 54 games...but not over Kobe Bryant's 2006 season. Not a chance.

Nobody gets it right, because there isn't a definitive way to name an MVP. It's an individual award that seems to favor the best teams in the NBA...and, with that in mind, it's for the "most valuable player in the league"...well, uh, unless it's asking for the "most valuable player for his team."

[Carpe Diem]

anyone but lebron should get it.

[NYCLakerfan]

For one, I don't like the MVP award. Something is seriously wrong when Steve Nash, who has no defensive skills whatsoever, can win two MVP awards and have one more than Kobe and Shaq.

Quite frankly, the league doesn't define the award the same every year, and it's annoying. D-Rose won it for being the offense in Chicago (he wasn't that great defensively...and they forget that Deng and Booz still put up 34-35 a game together). Chicago won 62 games that year, a LOT of that based on their defense (1st in the NBA on defense, 11th in offense), but because Rose led a team to 62 wins, he gets it.

Rose wasn't a top five player in the NBA.

However, LeBron James can win 5-6 MVP awards, despite having Wade and Bosh by his side.

Yet, Kobe and Shaq can't win but just two combined MVP's because they played together.

Meanwhile, Dirk Nowitzki wins an MVP award because Dallas won 67 games...then proceeded to get knocked out of the first round as a #1 seeded team. Dirk, who doesn't play defense, and had teammates averaging 19 and 17 a night (Josh Howard and Jason Terry) on high percentages (46% FG and 39% 3PT for Howard, 48% and 44% for Terry), gets the award for being the commander of a 67-win squad that ranked #5 in defense, so more people were involved than we were led to believe.

If it's about doing it with less help, then Nash surely gets consideration for one of his MVP awards for what he did with an Amare-less Suns team, winning 54 games...but not over Kobe Bryant's 2006 season. Not a chance.

Nobody gets it right, because there isn't a definitive way to name an MVP. It's an individual award that seems to favor the best teams in the NBA...and, with that in mind, it's for the "most valuable player in the league"...well, uh, unless it's asking for the "most valuable player for his team."

I def agree with this, it' s such a flawed award

[bfc1125roy]

The MVP should either be the best player in the league (which is what I think it should be, since there's no award for that) or the best player on the best team. Not some arbitrary mix of both, like it's been in years past.

[Drazard]

I'm a Kobe Bryant Fan but my list would be

1. Lebron James
2. Chris Paul
3. Kevin Durant
4. Carmello Antony
5. James Harden / Kobe Bryant

Why I put Kobe Bryant on the 5th, 1st of all I'm not bias and top of that he's not lifting his team in the top 8, oh yeah he leads in scoring leader but from what I've seen in NBA all of the players who won SEASON MVP AWARDS were winning team not in a losing team so I don't think he has a chance to win the season MVP unless he lift his team with his current scoring leader. Sorry my favorite Player Kobe Bryant but I'm just being real.

[PhillyLaker24]

Well, just so you know, Carmelo was 79-176 (44.9% FG) when the Knicks started the season 8-1.

They are #1 in turnovers, and the reason isn't Carmelo (who leads the team in TO's), but the likes of Jason Kidd, JR Smith, Tyson Chandler, Ronnie Brewer and Steve Novak, all playing significant minutes and taking good care of the ball.

They are an incredible three-point shooting team, #1 in attempts and makes, #3 in percentage...and while Melo is shooting VERY well from beyond the arc, giving the Knicks five a night, a good chunk of the team is hitting around 18 threes a night at 37% or better.

Melo has 125 threes this year. The rest of the team? They have made 637.

Kidd, Felton, and Brewer are leading the team in steals...and the team, as a whole, are 3rd in the NBA. Smith and Prigioni are after those three, Melo sixth.

----------

In other words, when you go and seek what the Knicks are really, really good at...it's not all on Melo. Their strongest points (three-point shooting, lack of turnovers, steals/creating TO's) rests on a lot of their players' shoulders.

Additionally, we know Carmelo isn't a defensive player, and he's not a passer (5th on the team, assists), so...we're saying that he scores a lot of points at a high efficiency? That should give him the MVP over a complete player like LeBron James, or a guy who does more in Kevin Durant? Nah.

And now he is 47% from the field and 44% from three (leading the team actually even though your post failed to point that out only the amount of 3's made which means nothing if your not shooting it efficently.) Ok so through his first 9 games he shot 45% like that is bad number for a player that takes a lot of mid range jumpers and 3's?

You pointed out a lot of useless stats that really dont tell me anything. Yea leading the team in turnovers by what .something, samething with him having lower steals by point something. Look at the numbers that actually mean something he is second on the team in rebounds and leads the team in scoring by 12 points! Like I said earlier too he leads the team in 3 point shooting (among players that actually get 10+ mins) Your saying melo doesnt deserve it because he has a team playing solid around him really? Like the heat, thunder, and clippers are bad teams outside of their star player.

The Knicks are really good because Melo is dropping 28+ a night efficently. Im sure I could point out a lot of little stats about Durant and Bron that would make you say "no way". Did you know Lebron LEADS the heat in TO's? So does Durant lead the Thunder. Star players that normally have the ball in their hands the most often have the most TO's for the simple fact the ball is in there hands the most. The thing that matters here is the big picture Melo is having his most efficent season of his career and the Knicks look the best they have in over a decade.

I know Melo doesnt play lock down defense (not because he can't just chooses not to commit himself) However, please refresh my memory was Steve Nash an amazing defender when he won two MVP's? How about Dirk? Thats because the media and people that vote on these things couldn't care less about that. Melo isnt a willing passer, doesnt change the fact that he is having the most efficent season of his career and the Knicks are doing great.

Edited by PhillyLaker24, December 23, 2012 - 05:54 PM.

[Majesty]

For one, I don't like the MVP award. Something is seriously wrong when Steve Nash, who has no defensive skills whatsoever, can win two MVP awards and have one more than Kobe and Shaq.

Quite frankly, the league doesn't define the award the same every year, and it's annoying. D-Rose won it for being the offense in Chicago (he wasn't that great defensively...and they forget that Deng and Booz still put up 34-35 a game together). Chicago won 62 games that year, a LOT of that based on their defense (1st in the NBA on defense, 11th in offense), but because Rose led a team to 62 wins, he gets it.

Rose wasn't a top five player in the NBA.

However, LeBron James can win 5-6 MVP awards, despite having Wade and Bosh by his side.

Yet, Kobe and Shaq can't win but just two combined MVP's because they played together.

Meanwhile, Dirk Nowitzki wins an MVP award because Dallas won 67 games...then proceeded to get knocked out of the first round as a #1 seeded team. Dirk, who doesn't play defense, and had teammates averaging 19 and 17 a night (Josh Howard and Jason Terry) on high percentages (46% FG and 39% 3PT for Howard, 48% and 44% for Terry), gets the award for being the commander of a 67-win squad that ranked #5 in defense, so more people were involved than we were led to believe.

If it's about doing it with less help, then Nash surely gets consideration for one of his MVP awards for what he did with an Amare-less Suns team, winning 54 games...but not over Kobe Bryant's 2006 season. Not a chance.

Nobody gets it right, because there isn't a definitive way to name an MVP. It's an individual award that seems to favor the best teams in the NBA...and, with that in mind, it's for the "most valuable player in the league"...well, uh, unless it's asking for the "most valuable player for his team."

They honestly just made up the reasons why they didn't Kobe the MVP award. It was politics but they said "he doesn't make his teammates better, Steve Nash does" as a reasoning. When before it was "the best player in the league" but they changed it to "who makes their teammates better." so they could give it to Nash twice in the years Kobe deserved it. You score 81 points and put one one of the most spectacular offensive and defensive years of that time and DON'T win MVP because you "don't make your teammates better."

Yet when Kobe was getting assists in the playoffs they were saying "if Kobe played like this during the season he'd have won MVP"

When the fact is that his teammates were making shots during those playoffs that they missed in the season when Kobe would feed them in the same ways, and was leading his team in assists as a shooting guard, but he got no credit whatsoever for that.

They basically made it "assists = makes your teammates better" so they could give it to Nash. Which is a shame really. It was all political. It's the same reasons that Kobe didn't get Finals MVP for 2 of the 3 Shaq years.

if the entire system wasn't corrupted Kobe would have about 4/5 MVP's and 4 Finals MVPs.

The problem is that they change it.

Now this year they are saying "The best player on the team with the best record!"

This makes it a 3 way race between Carmelo, LeBron and Durant.

The person who wins MVP is no longer usually the person who deserves it but whomever is hyped at the time with the most media attention for it.

Edited by Majesty, December 23, 2012 - 07:04 PM.

[Real Deal]

And now he is 47% from the field and 44% from three (leading the team actually even though your post failed to point that out only the amount of 3's made which means nothing if your not shooting it efficently.) Ok so through his first 9 games he shot 45% like that is bad number for a player that takes a lot of mid range jumpers and 3's?

You completely missed the point. I gave you a nine-game span (and chose the first nine games) to show you that the Knicks had the best record in the NBA with Carmelo shooting poorly, that this Knicks team didn't need him to shoot that well to win games.

Moving on...

You pointed out a lot of useless stats that really dont tell me anything. Yea leading the team in turnovers by what .something, samething with him having lower steals by point something. Look at the numbers that actually mean something he is second on the team in rebounds and leads the team in scoring by 12 points! Like I said earlier too he leads the team in 3 point shooting (among players that actually get 10+ mins) Your saying melo doesnt deserve it because he has a team playing solid around him really? Like the heat, thunder, and clippers are bad teams outside of their star player.

The Heat (LeBron), Thunder (Durant) and Clippers (CP3) all have unselfish players, especially two of those teams. Those players truly help their teammates more than Carmelo Anthony. Saying anything else...well, you might as well tell me that a prime Dwyane Wade was a better teammate than Magic Johnson, since Magic couldn't average 30 a night.

The Knicks are really good because Melo is dropping 28+ a night efficently. Im sure I could point out a lot of little stats about Durant and Bron that would make you say "no way". Did you know Lebron LEADS the heat in TO's? So does Durant lead the Thunder. Star players that normally have the ball in their hands the most often have the most TO's for the simple fact the ball is in there hands the most. The thing that matters here is the big picture Melo is having his most efficent season of his career and the Knicks look the best they have in over a decade.

LeBron is a better finisher, better in the post, better rebounder, amazingly better passer, FAR better defender (on-ball and help), and because the ring says so (and his two Finals appearances), he's a better leader than Carmelo Anthony. He's more efficient...he has a higher FG%, higher TS%, higher PER, higher eFG%, higher basketball IQ.

Melo can't hold LeBron's jockstrap...and I could go on for days, crushing Anthony.

You can say nearly the same things about Durant, also...and Durant is the better scorer (might as well call LeBron the better scorer, also, since he would be dumping in 30 a night without Bosh and Wade).

I know Melo doesnt play lock down defense (not because he can't just chooses not to commit himself) However, please refresh my memory was Steve Nash an amazing defender when he won two MVP's? How about Dirk? Thats because the media and people that vote on these things couldn't care less about that. Melo isnt a willing passer, doesnt change the fact that he is having the most efficent season of his career and the Knicks are doing great.

???

Okay. Doesn't change the fact that he's undeserving of the award. LeBron and Durant are better players, and Carmelo will ALWAYS play second fiddle to each of them.

Quote all of this, so we can come back to it in June.

[NYCLakerfan]

For the way the MVP award is handed out you gotta say Melo is above Lebron right now just because the Knicks are playing better than the Heat regardless of if the Knicks were winning when Melo wasn't this hot just him being the best players on one of the best teams and that's what the award is about.

So in actuality Melo is very deserving based on how the award is given out, whether Lebron or Durant are better than him or not doesn't matter in this case.

And the fact that the Knicks are playing way better than most ppl predicted just adds to his case in the debate whether its due to him or not is not what the media cares about.

Edited by NYCLakerfan, December 23, 2012 - 09:21 PM.

[ALL CAPS]

its ultimately gonna come down to durant and melo