I'm probably going to get banned but I'm at the point where I don't really care. This conversation should not be had between intelligent fans because it's stupid and it makes no sense. I have not said one thing that was defamatory or inaccurate but because it's KOBE, we have to do this dance.
You know entirely too much about basketball to be so stubborn about something so obvious.
The rest of your post points to Kobe being a good scorer and the best facilitator for the championship years yet this post claims that's not possible because his 2nd option can't make free throws?
Ever heard of Shaq? Hack-A-Shaq?
No legitimate threats at 1, 3 or 4? Our first 3 Ch'ips with Phil had a GREAT supporting cast, right?
Scottie Pippen was the primary scorer for an entire season after being the primary FACILITATOR every previous season...THEN, he had to revert back to facilitator status when MJ returned...thanks.
My point is Kobe doesn't have to become the 2nd option...that's YOUR definition. I'm asking that Kobe, MAKING ~$30M/y, adjust his game and get his teammates involved, as required by the Mike D'Antoni offense.
But for you, that doesn't matter. Why not just let Kobe F-ing shoot every time? Why even have a COACH? Or an OFFENSE?
And he's CLEARLY not running it.
And by your own admission, Kobe CAN run it.
But also, according to you, he shouldn't HAVE to.
I'm only seeing KOBE benefit from that...not his teammates or his team.
Michael was 39...
Seriously? That's your argument?
And he had been retired for how long?
AND, you keep ignoring Pippen. If MJ HAD to pass the ball to win, maybe he WOULDN'T have won as much OR he would have adjusted his game. You can't keep comparing MJ and Kobe without admitting it's apples and oranges WITHOUT discussing PIPPEN.
WE HAVE AN OFFENSE, BRANDON!!!
Spoelstra was in over his head until he took the reigns and gave everyone a role and a purpose...but even then, you ignore the fact that Lebron had WADE, who also averaged an above average APG, though not being a PG...sounds familiar?
You just INTENTIONALLY ignore this fact, right? No. I believe you just look at it from one POV because you don't want to believe that Kobe ISN'T doing "what's best for the team"...shocking and life-changing, right? I know!
And who was the PG on those teams?
Saying Kobe was the best playmaker on a team where the PG was a glorified SG is NOT an accomplishment.
And if that's wrong, LIST Kobe's starting backcourt mate and their career APG...it's not like he had competition.
Seriously weak, Brandon. You wouldn't present this type of argument without thinking it thru in a normal discussion.
Now, why should he do that now? We didn't need a real FLOOR GENERAL for the TRIANGLE OFFENSE!!!
This is NOT the TRIANGLE OFFENSE. THIS offense REQUIRES a TRADITIONAL PLAYMAKER. Kobe's the best we have outside of NASH...
It's common sense.
Comparing the Triangle to this offense and it's needs requirements?
Night and day. This offense REQUIRES playmaking and ball movement.
So why even play the games without Nash?
And if you KNOW what will happen, you must be ASSUMING Kobe will get shut down? Why would you do that? Kobe's one of the smartest basketball players in the league and you think he could not BOTH set his teammates up AND read the defense?
You can't keep listing his greatness at facilitating and claim he shouldn't do it.
Like we have a choice?!
And the other shoe finally drops. It's not Kobe as facilitator that's the problem. It's the OFFENSE itself that's the problem...
At this point, I'm tired of fighting this battle. All I'm going to say is it's not YOUR call. No one is really CONCERNED about YOUR opinion of the offense. It's not up for debate. It's here. It has to be run. If Kobe doesn't want to run it, being the default facilitator while Nash is out, that's about the same as mailing in the loss.
Facilitating is NOT an option.
And the turnovers are a fact of life until the ENTIRE TEAM gets comfortable running the offense. That can't happen without a lead guard facilitating...
Chicken or egg? No...D'Antoni's offense has only been successful with a legit playmaker...NYK played horrible when MELO did the same thing Kobe is doing...
Again, it is what it is. Your opinion of the offense is irrelevant. It works with a legit facilitator. But, wasn't Kobe excited about the offense? And MDA?
I'm tired of this. It makes no sense and you won't listen. You admit Kobe can facilitate but you won't concede that it's what's best for the team...
We aren't successful because we aren't playing as a team. This offense requires ball movement and playmaking. This offense is about equal opportunity and free flowing energy.
This team COULD play better with Kobe setting them up. This team COULD find more scoring when they ran the OFFENSE. This team HAS enough talent to be successful. This team HAS 7 players that COULD put at least 20ppg on any given night.
This offense is about sharing, not blame. This offense is about getting the best shot, not choosing who should and should NOT take those shots.
Kobe can't determine who can and can not do what it takes or step up on a given night.
I'm not sure if you know it or not, but KOBE IS NOT GOD.
Trust the offense.
Do what's best for the team.
If we are still losing after that, you make a change....but you HAVE TO GIVE THE OFFENSE A LEGIT CHANCE.
Kobe Ball does NOT do that.
Playmaking is easier than going 1-on-5. It also gets the team in a flow. It allows us to play MORE PLAYERS, giving our starters more rest. It does NOT depend on each player having the same skills. It can take a player's strengths and maximize them while hiding their deficiencies. This assumes the offense is ran correctly...and that starts with a player who can create shots for others while controlling the flow and tempo of the game.
This team needs to be greater than the sum of it's parts. That's what this offense is capable of doing. That's why it's supposed to be fun. That's why we SHOULD give it a chance. That's why Kobe needs to help us get thru this until Nash returns. Then, he can do whatever he wants.
But as the leader on this team, the franchise player, the $30Million Dollar Man, you can't seriously sit there and say its not only what he SHOULD do, it's his DUTY to his teammates, this team and this franchise, to do whatEVER it takes to win...
And this is what we need from him to give us that chance.
Great players find a way to win games.
I'm not shuffling the blame to anyone. I'm telling you where we need to start to correct what's wrong with the offense and the team. Dwight's turnovers are a known entity...he's never been a guy who didn't get stripped or lose the ball. Kobe's a guy who has lots of experience running a team and an offense. He's our best playmaker and best 1-on-1 player. He is one of the only players on our team who can create a shot for himself and others. He's one of the smartest basketball players in the history of the NBA.
Yet, you continue to claim our team wouldn't be better served by him taking over primary playmaking duties?
You claim we could NOT rejuvenate some of the bench players with Kobe setting the table?
You claim our shooters wouldn't shoot better percentages with Kobe driving and kicking?
You claim the offense wouldn't create easier shots for Dwight with Kobe running the show?
I DON'T understand your "logic".
I may be wrong...but you are incorrigible. You have no desire to listen when it comes to Kobe. Any criticism of him is wrong on it's face.
This discussion is over. You win. I don't care. I care more about the Lakers than Kobe. F(orget) Kobe if it means the Lakers are a better team.
Ban me if you must. It doesn't matter. I will stand by my statements.
your wrong. and you need to be banned, just for insulting other peoples intelligence. sorry to tell you but, you are no enstein. stop trying to make it seem like you are. you are infact, a kobe hater. how are we supposed to take what your saying seriously, putting all the blame on kobe. GTFOHWTBS. then this "urh der great player find a way to win urh der" your spewing is bull and you know it. saying this, as a way to bash a 5 time NBA champion makes it even stupider coming from your mouth. your trying to tell us, that kobe bryant a 5 time nba champion, still playing lights out basketball on both ends( stats prove it, but urh der stats don't mean nothin to you, RIGHT?) isn't a great player that knows how to win. and were just suppose to take your word for it, F stats because the GMCDealer said so, huh?
then to top things off, offense is not our problem. we are good offensively and well be better when we are healthy. but oh yeah, our defense is kobe's fault too let you tell it. not taking into consideration this is new offense where we are turning the ball over.... alot. granted, some of the turnovers are kobe because he is basically our point gaurd/shooting gaurd right now. also not taking into consideration that when nash gets back, he will help our defense( surprised). he will keep our turnover at a managable margin. give us a chance to get back and set up defensively instead of team running the ball down our throat every other play. were not losing these games via blowout. 5 less turnover and you'd be suprised at the results of most of these games we have lost.
you want to put everything on kobe and say, kobe is flawed so we can't win. newsflash, nobodies perfect. i honestly don't know what you want from him, sure you can say kobe has to play better, but to just deflect all resposibility on kobe and claim were losing because of him is plain ridiculous. point blank, it's the teams fault(including kobe). but we are not losing because and only because of kobe and his atrcious(let you tell us) offensive and defensive play. not by a long shot.
Edited by Paris, December 13, 2012 - 04:02 PM.