I'm probably going to get banned but I'm at the point where I don't really care. This conversation should not be had between intelligent fans because it's stupid and it makes no sense. I have not said one thing that was defamatory or inaccurate but because it's KOBE, we have to do this dance.
You know entirely too much about basketball to be so stubborn about something so obvious.
You CANNOT take a primary scoring option, and turn him into a facilitating second option, when your second option (Dwight Howard) will continually get fouled and sent to the line + you don't have legitimate threats at the one, the three OR the four.
The rest of your post points to Kobe being a good scorer and the best facilitator for the championship years yet this post claims that's not possible because his 2nd option can't make free throws?
Ever heard of Shaq? Hack-A-Shaq?
No legitimate threats at 1, 3 or 4? Our first 3 Ch'ips with Phil had a GREAT supporting cast, right?
Give me one season this has ever happened to any superstar, in the history of the league...a primary scoring option, turned facilitator (basically point-forward) and becoming the second option (15 shots a game is laughable, sorry), and it works.
Scottie Pippen was the primary scorer for an entire season after being the primary FACILITATOR every previous season...THEN, he had to revert back to facilitator status when MJ returned...thanks.
My point is Kobe doesn't have to become the 2nd option...that's YOUR definition. I'm asking that Kobe, MAKING ~$30M/y, adjust his game and get his teammates involved, as required by the Mike D'Antoni offense.
But for you, that doesn't matter. Why not just let Kobe F-ing shoot every time? Why even have a COACH? Or an OFFENSE?
And he's CLEARLY not running it.
And by your own admission, Kobe CAN run it.
But also, according to you, he shouldn't HAVE to.
I'm only seeing KOBE benefit from that...not his teammates or his team.
Michael didn't even do that in Washington. Aside from his rookie season (won't count his injured sophomore year), Jordan didn't shoot under 22 shots a game, even at 34-35 years old and all the talent he had...and in Washington, he took 22 and 19 FGA/G in those two seasons. Why? You can't simply go and turn a primary scoring option into a second option facilitator. This is the NBA, not high school basketball.
Michael was 39...
Seriously? That's your argument?
And he had been retired for how long?
AND, you keep ignoring Pippen. If MJ HAD to pass the ball to win, maybe he WOULDN'T have won as much OR he would have adjusted his game. You can't keep comparing MJ and Kobe without admitting it's apples and oranges WITHOUT discussing PIPPEN.
A team with three all-stars (three franchise players...two superstars and an all-star, however you want to look at it) went 9-8 to start a season because Erik Spoelstra had this idea that LeBron James (their primary option) could come down the court, do what he wanted, and get everyone shots because he's the best playmaker on the team. Nope. They had to install an offense, and right now, we don't have one because our 50-year old PG has played just one full game in a Lakers jersey.
WE HAVE AN OFFENSE, BRANDON!!!
Spoelstra was in over his head until he took the reigns and gave everyone a role and a purpose...but even then, you ignore the fact that Lebron had WADE, who also averaged an above average APG, though not being a PG...sounds familiar?
You just INTENTIONALLY ignore this fact, right? No. I believe you just look at it from one POV because you don't want to believe that Kobe ISN'T doing "what's best for the team"...shocking and life-changing, right? I know!
And who was the PG on those teams?Exactly.Saying Kobe was the best playmaker on a team where the PG was a glorified SG is NOT an accomplishment.And if that's wrong, LIST Kobe's starting backcourt mate and their career APG...it's not like he had competition.Seriously weak, Brandon. You wouldn't present this type of argument without thinking it thru in a normal discussion.Now, why should he do that now? We didn't need a real FLOOR GENERAL for the TRIANGLE OFFENSE!!!This is NOT the TRIANGLE OFFENSE. THIS offense REQUIRES a TRADITIONAL PLAYMAKER. Kobe's the best we have outside of NASH...It's common sense.
Newsflash: Kobe has been the best facilitator in every single championship team he has been a part of, and almost every single team (championship or not) since 1999. Led all of the championships teams in assists, easily. FACT. What else did he do? He was shooting more shots than anyone else on four of those five championship teams, more than Shaq.
Did we need Kobe to shoot 15 shots a night, and facilitate more as the best facilitator on those championship teams? Nope. We just needed an offense, and players who were willing to do work. Fact.
Comparing the Triangle to this offense and it's needs requirements?
Night and day. This offense REQUIRES playmaking and ball movement.
Some of you can dream all you want, but the truth is, we can win a game here or there when Kobe facilitates, but teams will plan for it just as they plan for Kobe's 30+ point games, and we'll end up losing again. Yeah, Kobe could come out Thursday and surprise the hell out of the Knicks by throwing 10 assists (not sure who will convert those, but whatever), do it once again in the next game, but five games into this new "strategy" we have, we'll have 2-3 more losses because these are NBA coaches and NBA defenders.
So why even play the games without Nash?
And if you KNOW what will happen, you must be ASSUMING Kobe will get shut down? Why would you do that? Kobe's one of the smartest basketball players in the league and you think he could not BOTH set his teammates up AND read the defense?
You can't keep listing his greatness at facilitating and claim he shouldn't do it.
Like we have a choice?!
That's not even considering the fact that a lot of our turnovers are coming off of Kobe and Dwight, because neither of them can play that role in this whack-ass offense we try to run for our shooters. So we want Kobe to do MORE as a facilitator?
And the other shoe finally drops. It's not Kobe as facilitator that's the problem. It's the OFFENSE itself that's the problem...
At this point, I'm tired of fighting this battle. All I'm going to say is it's not YOUR call. No one is really CONCERNED about YOUR opinion of the offense. It's not up for debate. It's here. It has to be run. If Kobe doesn't want to run it, being the default facilitator while Nash is out, that's about the same as mailing in the loss.
Facilitating is NOT an option.
And the turnovers are a fact of life until the ENTIRE TEAM gets comfortable running the offense. That can't happen without a lead guard facilitating...
Chicken or egg? No...D'Antoni's offense has only been successful with a legit playmaker...NYK played horrible when MELO did the same thing Kobe is doing...
If you want Kobe to facilitate, stick him in the triangle offense, not some uptempo POS that I stated we wouldn't be successful in from the start.
Again, it is what it is. Your opinion of the offense is irrelevant. It works with a legit facilitator. But, wasn't Kobe excited about the offense? And MDA?
I'm tired of this. It makes no sense and you won't listen. You admit Kobe can facilitate but you won't concede that it's what's best for the team...
Funny part is, we're still a top ten offense...top six three-point shooting, top eight FG%...but we aren't successful in it because it is running our best players to DEATH, and a good chunk of our team is heavily-dependent on Kobe because of the style of play. No chance we get back in transition on a bad turnover. No chance we can defend late in games. No chance we have the legs and arms to hoist up high-percentage shots when they matter most. No chance anyone else on this team, including Dwight Howard, can do the scoring work that Kobe does, even collectively.
We aren't successful because we aren't playing as a team. This offense requires ball movement and playmaking. This offense is about equal opportunity and free flowing energy.
This team COULD play better with Kobe setting them up. This team COULD find more scoring when they ran the OFFENSE. This team HAS enough talent to be successful. This team HAS 7 players that COULD put at least 20ppg on any given night.
This offense is about sharing, not blame. This offense is about getting the best shot, not choosing who should and should NOT take those shots.
Kobe can't determine who can and can not do what it takes or step up on a given night.
I'm not sure if you know it or not, but KOBE IS NOT GOD.
Trust the offense.
Do what's best for the team.
If we are still losing after that, you make a change....but you HAVE TO GIVE THE OFFENSE A LEGIT CHANCE.
Kobe Ball does NOT do that.
The fatigue we're experiencing from an offense that isn't suiting us, is burying us back on defense. We are shooting FAR too many threes, even if they are top six in the NBA in percentage, because our misses lead to long rebounds. We are NOT able to run P&R as well, which asks for Kobe to do even more work scoring the ball. The fact that Kobe and Howard have to provide help defense on almost every [expletive]ing play on the court is wearing our two best defensive players out, also.
Playmaking is easier than going 1-on-5. It also gets the team in a flow. It allows us to play MORE PLAYERS, giving our starters more rest. It does NOT depend on each player having the same skills. It can take a player's strengths and maximize them while hiding their deficiencies. This assumes the offense is ran correctly...and that starts with a player who can create shots for others while controlling the flow and tempo of the game.
This team needs to be greater than the sum of it's parts. That's what this offense is capable of doing. That's why it's supposed to be fun. That's why we SHOULD give it a chance. That's why Kobe needs to help us get thru this until Nash returns. Then, he can do whatever he wants.
But as the leader on this team, the franchise player, the $30Million Dollar Man, you can't seriously sit there and say its not only what he SHOULD do, it's his DUTY to his teammates, this team and this franchise, to do whatEVER it takes to win...
And this is what we need from him to give us that chance.
Great players find a way to win games.
Shuffle the blame to Kobe and Dwight for their turnovers, and Dwight for his missed FT's (although, using the past championship teams again, we did it with Shaq, who was "as good" as Dwight late in games because both were at the FT line, not in the paint) if those two are going to have dirt kicked into their eyes, but realize that they have teammates who simply aren't playing (Nash), incredibly bad defensive players who aren't legit second options (Jamison, Gasol), defensive players who have no idea how to play offense (Artest, Hill), and the rest are so irrelevant, they have no room in this discussion.
I'm not shuffling the blame to anyone. I'm telling you where we need to start to correct what's wrong with the offense and the team. Dwight's turnovers are a known entity...he's never been a guy who didn't get stripped or lose the ball. Kobe's a guy who has lots of experience running a team and an offense. He's our best playmaker and best 1-on-1 player. He is one of the only players on our team who can create a shot for himself and others. He's one of the smartest basketball players in the history of the NBA.
Yet, you continue to claim our team wouldn't be better served by him taking over primary playmaking duties?
You claim we could NOT rejuvenate some of the bench players with Kobe setting the table?
You claim our shooters wouldn't shoot better percentages with Kobe driving and kicking?
You claim the offense wouldn't create easier shots for Dwight with Kobe running the show?
I DON'T understand your "logic".
You can point to whatever you like, but if it's contradicting anything above, you're wrong.
I may be wrong...but you are incorrigible. You have no desire to listen when it comes to Kobe. Any criticism of him is wrong on it's face.
This discussion is over. You win. I don't care. I care more about the Lakers than Kobe. F(orget) Kobe if it means the Lakers are a better team.
Ban me if you must. It doesn't matter. I will stand by my statements.