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Kobe needs to stop playing selfish basketball


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#41 lakersince75

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Posted December 12, 2012 - 04:56 AM

It's up to D'Antoni to minimize Kobe's minutes, win or lose. Kobe can't shoot the ball from the bench if he's only playing 33 minutes per game. This may give the bench players the confidense they need. At 33 minutes Kobe can shoot his 50% and play killer D. At 40 minutes per game, we are in deep ISH

#42 GCMD

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Posted December 12, 2012 - 04:57 AM

I remember when Kobe tried to pass on every possession in the semi finals against Pheonix. The media and fans ripped him apart for not shooting. WTF??


Great players find a way to win. Kobe gets stuck in "either or" mode. If he has a open shot, take it. Creating his own shot off the dribble should be OFF the menu for Kobe. Creating shots for others is a more efficient use of his abilities at this point in his career with the problems this team has.


If Kobe doesn't create for this team, who else will? Or can?
Who do you really want going 1-on-1? Because that's the only other option.


Nash is out.
Kobe's the best playmaker on the team.


1+1=2

It really is that simple.

#43 GCMD

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Posted December 12, 2012 - 05:00 AM

It's up to D'Antoni to minimize Kobe's minutes, win or lose. Kobe can't shoot the ball from the bench if he's only playing 33 minutes per game. This may give the bench players the confidense they need. At 33 minutes Kobe can shoot his 50% and play killer D. At 40 minutes per game, we are in deep ISH


POINT GUARD driven OFFENSE.
Kobe's the best playmaker on this team with Nash out.


It's not Kobe's minutes that's the problem. It's how he's using them. Too much effort in scoring and not enough in creating for others. Believe me, setting others up is easier than taking the beating a scorer takes.

#44 GCMD

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Posted December 12, 2012 - 05:12 AM

Most people see this as me blaming the Lakers' problems on Kobe...no.


It starts with your best player doing everything he has to to win. He has to adjust to his teammates, utilizing their strengths.


All I'm seeing from Kobe is a rigid view of how players SHOULD play, not accepting them for who they are and using them in that way. He is Kobe, rain, sleet or snow. But is that what this team needs to win? Does he even care? Or is he stuck in the belief that the world should adjust to him?



We NEED Kobe to lead this team...if he couldn't do it, I wouldn't suggest that he should. Just like I'm not suggesting that DWIGHT create for the team in Nash's absence. Kobe CAN get his teammates open shots on a regular basis. We ROUTINELY win when he does so.



All of you guys wanted to lean on stats in other arguments but you want to ignore the TREND set by the Kobe's scoring vs our W/L stats...a trend that is very compelling, though not all inclusive (it ignores too many variables to be an end-all argument).

What I can tell you from the eye test is when Kobe acts as a decoy, the rest of the team steps up. THey play with energy, they make shots, they become aggressive. When Kobe goes Kobe, nobody knows what to do and they look like stooges.


I want what's best for the team. Right now, win or lose, Kobe scoring 40 with the rest of the team not getting major touches is not good for the team.

It starts with your best player. Once he's on board with the coach and the offense, we can sort the rest out. Until we get what we need from Kobe, complaining about Morris, Duhon or even MWP is a waste of time.


Great players find a way to win.

Edited by GCMD, December 12, 2012 - 05:15 AM.


#45 GCMD

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Posted December 12, 2012 - 05:17 AM

Fun fact:


This is the most TALENTED team Kobe's EVER played on...by FAR.

#46 Windu

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Posted December 12, 2012 - 06:54 AM

POINT GUARD driven OFFENSE.
Kobe's the best playmaker on this team with Nash out.


It's not Kobe's minutes that's the problem. It's how he's using them. Too much effort in scoring and not enough in creating for others. Believe me, setting others up is easier than taking the beating a scorer takes.


Kobe is not a point guard so you can't expect him to execute PG duties. There are backups on this team that are being paid MILLIONS of dollars to come in and help this team. Now, what's the sense of spending this money if they're not going to do their jobs. You can't expect Kobe Bryant to be a starting shooting guard and starting point guard for this team.

You can't create something outta nothing.

Pau Gasol is GONE


#47 TheOriginalCZM

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Posted December 12, 2012 - 07:08 AM

I mean...i can't really be made at kobe this game....he shot 57% from the field....I can see if he show in the low 30-40s.Other there hand...Hill-16%,Howard-33%,Duhon-50%(only shot twice and made one),MWP-41%. and i'm not even going to look at the bench...Kobe was really the only guy that was showing urgency of putting the ball in the basket...I can't really blame him that he's not passing the ball because if he did, the final score would be a lot worse than what its really is.

#48 LakeShow805

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Posted December 12, 2012 - 11:07 AM

Lol GCMD trying to blame it on Kobe again....classic

#49 Real Deal

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Posted December 12, 2012 - 11:15 AM

Jesus Christ.

You CANNOT take a primary scoring option, and turn him into a facilitating second option, when your second option (Dwight Howard) will continually get fouled and sent to the line + you don't have legitimate threats at the one, the three OR the four.

Give me one season this has ever happened to any superstar, in the history of the league...a primary scoring option, turned facilitator (basically point-forward) and becoming the second option (15 shots a game is laughable, sorry), and it works.

Michael didn't even do that in Washington. Aside from his rookie season (won't count his injured sophomore year), Jordan didn't shoot under 22 shots a game, even at 34-35 years old and all the talent he had...and in Washington, he took 22 and 19 FGA/G in those two seasons. Why? You can't simply go and turn a primary scoring option into a second option facilitator. This is the NBA, not high school basketball.

A team with three all-stars (three franchise players...two superstars and an all-star, however you want to look at it) went 9-8 to start a season because Erik Spoelstra had this idea that LeBron James (their primary option) could come down the court, do what he wanted, and get everyone shots because he's the best playmaker on the team. Nope. They had to install an offense, and right now, we don't have one because our 50-year old PG has played just one full game in a Lakers jersey.

Newsflash: Kobe has been the best facilitator in every single championship team he has been a part of, and almost every single team (championship or not) since 1999. Led all of the championships teams in assists, easily. FACT. What else did he do? He was shooting more shots than anyone else on four of those five championship teams, more than Shaq.

Did we need Kobe to shoot 15 shots a night, and facilitate more as the best facilitator on those championship teams? Nope. We just needed an offense, and players who were willing to do work. Fact.

Some of you can dream all you want, but the truth is, we can win a game here or there when Kobe facilitates, but teams will plan for it just as they plan for Kobe's 30+ point games, and we'll end up losing again. Yeah, Kobe could come out Thursday and surprise the hell out of the Knicks by throwing 10 assists (not sure who will convert those, but whatever), do it once again in the next game, but five games into this new "strategy" we have, we'll have 2-3 more losses because these are NBA coaches and NBA defenders.

That's not even considering the fact that a lot of our turnovers are coming off of Kobe and Dwight, because neither of them can play that role in this whack-ass offense we try to run for our shooters. So we want Kobe to do MORE as a facilitator?

If you want Kobe to facilitate, stick him in the triangle offense, not some uptempo POS that I stated we wouldn't be successful in from the start.

-------------------

Funny part is, we're still a top ten offense...top six three-point shooting, top eight FG%...but we aren't successful in it because it is running our best players to DEATH, and a good chunk of our team is heavily-dependent on Kobe because of the style of play. No chance we get back in transition on a bad turnover. No chance we can defend late in games. No chance we have the legs and arms to hoist up high-percentage shots when they matter most. No chance anyone else on this team, including Dwight Howard, can do the scoring work that Kobe does, even collectively.

The fatigue we're experiencing from an offense that isn't suiting us, is burying us back on defense. We are shooting FAR too many threes, even if they are top six in the NBA in percentage, because our misses lead to long rebounds. We are NOT able to run P&R as well, which asks for Kobe to do even more work scoring the ball. The fact that Kobe and Howard have to provide help defense on almost every [expletive]ing play on the court is wearing our two best defensive players out, also.

Shuffle the blame to Kobe and Dwight for their turnovers, and Dwight for his missed FT's (although, using the past championship teams again, we did it with Shaq, who was "as good" as Dwight late in games because both were at the FT line, not in the paint) if those two are going to have dirt kicked into their eyes, but realize that they have teammates who simply aren't playing (Nash), incredibly bad defensive players who aren't legit second options (Jamison, Gasol), defensive players who have no idea how to play offense (Artest, Hill), and the rest are so irrelevant, they have no room in this discussion.

You can point to whatever you like, but if it's contradicting anything above, you're wrong.

#50 Drazard

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Posted December 12, 2012 - 01:31 PM

like Phil Jackson said as his former coach

Kobe can be like Lebron James but his team need his scoring more than his pass

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#51 Paris

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Posted December 12, 2012 - 01:33 PM

^^ this guys the real deal. LOL.


#52 MAMBA24ILL

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Posted December 12, 2012 - 01:44 PM

It's not Kobe's fault, it's the dam team as a whole, the dam system. Who wouldn't put the ball in the best players hands? Most times Lakers have the ball, it seems like nothing happens unless Kobe makes it happen.
If the Lakers are down in a close game & Kobe has 29, do you tell him not to put it up because of LA's record when he goes over 30?

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#53 KobeWillReturnTriumphant

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Posted December 12, 2012 - 01:45 PM

Hey Kobe. Don't shoot 50 percent! Pass to the trash shooting 30%.

#54 Majesty

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Posted December 12, 2012 - 01:48 PM

like Phil Jackson said as his former coach

Kobe can be like Lebron James but his team need his scoring more than his pass


Funny thing is when Kobe's teammates are scoring and hitting their shots his numbers(aside from rebounding) mirror what LeBron's are, even the shooting over 50%. But the thing is, that is not Kobe's mentality nor the avenue of his game he excels at so he wouldn't do that for a season, and he really doesn't have the teammates to do that with. He's not surrounded by the consistency, which is why Nash was such a key point because Nash would be finding people rather than Kobe, and Kobe could be more of a weapon than the key facilitator(which he has been since he started as a Laker)

That was why the addition of Nash was so vital. Because it gave the Lakers a weapon at point guard that could utilize Kobe AS a weapon on offense rather than Kobe having to be every aspect so it deepened where the weapons were and evened out responsibilities.

Without Nash...we get what we have gotten all these years. A point guard that is adequate part of the time, and Kobe being the main facilitator while also being the main scorer and having to do a bit of both way too much.

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#55 Majesty

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Posted December 12, 2012 - 01:52 PM

Seriously I look at the posting in this thread trying to blame Kobe primarily and I think about a line from a Hitchcock movie by an inspector.

"They talk about flat footed policemen, may the saints protect us from the gifted amateur."

Edited by Majesty, December 12, 2012 - 01:52 PM.

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#56 Cowboys&LakersFan

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Posted December 12, 2012 - 01:56 PM

Lol this thread is a joke. The man dropped 40 points last night in terrific efficiency and he's being blamed even though he's the only reason like always that we even had a chance to win the game. Just absolutely ridiculous.
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#57 gque24

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Posted December 12, 2012 - 03:04 PM

Why does it seem other team get contributions from their marginal players & their star players on a routine basis but Lakers do not? Its not Kobe shot attempts that makes the rest of the team miss their looks. dont take a shot just cuz ur open. take the shot with the intent on making the bucket.
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#58 Drazard

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Posted December 12, 2012 - 03:19 PM

Kobe shoot 16 - 28

Kobe Bryant teammate shoots 15 - 47

and those STUPID LAKERS FANS wants kobe to pass the DAMN BALL


Lakers fan should realize

Kobe played for 41 minutes but still can make 50% more field goal yet his teammate playing less than 40 minutes yet shooting less than 50% :smh:
If I'm not mistaken Kobe is the 2nd oldest player in the roster yet making 50% more field goal than the rest of the team and playing more minutes than younger team.

This people are seriously insane I don't what kind of brain they have

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#59 Bjork

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Posted December 12, 2012 - 03:47 PM

Kobe shoot 16 - 28

Kobe Bryant teammate shoots 15 - 47

and those STUPID LAKERS FANS wants kobe to pass the DAMN BALL


Lakers fan should realize

Kobe played for 41 minutes but still can make 50% more field goal yet his teammate playing less than 40 minutes yet shooting less than 50% :smh:
If I'm not mistaken Kobe is the 2nd oldest player in the roster yet making 50% more field goal than the rest of the team and playing more minutes than younger team.

This people are seriously insane I don't what kind of brain they have


Oh dont worry. Im pretty sure they dont want yours too.

Edited by Bjork, December 12, 2012 - 03:49 PM.


#60 NYCLakerfan

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Posted December 12, 2012 - 06:36 PM

The whole "the Lakers are 1-9 when Kobe scores 30+" is seriously the most ignorant, flawed rip against Kobe I've ever heard.

As Real Deal already pointed out, Kobe's 30 point games more often then not are occuring in games where the team is down big & Kobe needs to bail them out.

Also, if you look at each of Kobe's 30 point games this year you'll see a couple of things that stand out in most of them: Lakers committing too many TO's & playing horrid D.

Kobe putting up 30+ points isn't the reason the Lakers are losing those games, far from it...


Yea Kobe's scoring 30+ points in his career correlates with the Lakers playing bad but most times including now it's not the cause of the Lakers playing bad he usually plays like this when guys are just completely under performing.




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