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Howard: " We're getting better... this is not anybody's timetable..."


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#41 last stand 2.0

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Posted December 10, 2012 - 05:36 PM

i never said he won't run the offense better, i said nash turns the ball over, which he does

chris paul for example TOs half as much as nash but actually has a higher usage rate. my point stands. nash doesn't eliminate TOs. to believe so is silly at best.

he may lessen them to an extent kicking morris out of the game, lessening duhons minutes, but he himself still turns the ball over
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#42 Majesty

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Posted December 10, 2012 - 05:43 PM

i never said he won't run the offense better, i said nash turns the ball over, which he does

chris paul for example TOs half as much as nash but actually has a higher usage rate. my point stands. nash doesn't eliminate TOs. to believe so is silly at best.

he may lessen them to an extent kicking morris out of the game, lessening duhons minutes, but he himself still turns the ball over


And I just explained to you WHY he turns/turned the ball over in Phoenix and why his turnovers go down significantly when he comes here and why the Lakers as a team won't be as turnover prone as they have been.

You were trying to argue that the turnovers don't go away with Nash and I basically showed you every reason they do :)

Nash isn't gonna turn the ball over as much as he did in Phoenix on THIS team :)

Edited by Majesty, December 10, 2012 - 05:44 PM.

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#43 last stand 2.0

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Posted December 10, 2012 - 05:45 PM

No, it isn't. Nice try though :)

I just told you why he was a main offensive option and why so much pressure was on him. And I said he'd have the least amount of pressure on him surrounded by the likes of Kobe, Dwight and even Gasol.

You tried to fight that argument. So I asked you point blank name someone on the phoenix team on the last 3 years that could create their own shot and demand double teams.

You can't find any so you say it's "irrelevant"

Actually it isn't. It proves my point. It's alright to admit that.


it is irrelevant when i showed you that he had the same turnover numbers with guys around him who could create AND he was younger with a healthier back

therefore it makes the last 3 years irrelevant because he's done it consistently under mike d'antoni even with other creators.

if you want proof. since going to phoenix steve nash has consistently posted a 20 TO%. so 20% of the time he turns the ball over.

you want a comparison. chris paul has never crossed even 15%, deron's career high was 18% hasn't really hit that since.

Nash isn't a ball protector. never has been. his usage rate isn't any higher than williams or paul (in fact both players are higher in that category almost every season) so don't use the excuse that he was the only person with the ball.

both of those PGs were on some pretty poor teams as well. more poor than most of those suns teams. so lets put all of this to bed until you guys actually acquire some evidence. Nash turns the ball over. he always has and always will

dwight howard turns the ball over as well at a pretty high rate for a center.

turnovers aren't going away other than bad players like morris going to the bench and duhon getting limited playing time.
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#44 Majesty

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Posted December 10, 2012 - 06:12 PM

it is irrelevant when i showed you that he had the same turnover numbers with guys around him who could create AND he was younger with a healthier back

therefore it makes the last 3 years irrelevant because he's done it consistently under mike d'antoni even with other creators.

if you want proof. since going to phoenix steve nash has consistently posted a 20 TO%. so 20% of the time he turns the ball over.

you want a comparison. chris paul has never crossed even 15%, deron's career high was 18% hasn't really hit that since.

Nash isn't a ball protector. never has been. his usage rate isn't any higher than williams or paul (in fact both players are higher in that category almost every season) so don't use the excuse that he was the only person with the ball.

both of those PGs were on some pretty poor teams as well. more poor than most of those suns teams. so lets put all of this to bed until you guys actually acquire some evidence. Nash turns the ball over. he always has and always will

dwight howard turns the ball over as well at a pretty high rate for a center.

turnovers aren't going away other than bad players like morris going to the bench and duhon getting limited playing time.


You didn't give me anyone that could create their own shot and demanded double teams. Nash has 3 in the starting lineup.

I gave you why his turnover ratio was what it was and what was demanded of him to have to do because of who he was surrounded by.

No one on that list that you gave me at the time they were on that team was someone that could create their own shot and demand double teams.

The very least you could give me is one but you can't. Nash has never been surrounded by creators, he spoon fed every single one of them because they couldn't create for themselves which is why what he did was special because the people he was surrounded by were very one dimensional players and he had to do near everything when it came to their offense and what was asked of him to do.

He is not going to turnover the ball as much as he did in Phoenix and has never been surrounded by AN individual that could create for them self and demand double teams, let alone 3 in the starting lineup alone.

Can you even give me one from that Phoenix squad that at the time actually demanded double teams and could create a shot for them self that wasn't Steve Nash? No, you can't.

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#45 last stand 2.0

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Posted December 10, 2012 - 06:13 PM

And I just explained to you WHY he turns/turned the ball over in Phoenix and why his turnovers go down significantly when he comes here and why the Lakers as a team won't be as turnover prone as they have been.

You were trying to argue that the turnovers don't go away with Nash and I basically showed you every reason they do :)

Nash isn't gonna turn the ball over as much as he did in Phoenix on THIS team :)


you have no proof, your entire argument is conjecture. Amare was an elite scoring big man, arguably the best in the league before his knees started giving out. marion was an elite finisher. and nash was surrounded by the best cast of shooters the league had to offer.

there is no spacing on this team. pau and artest are both incredibly inconsistent shooters, and it doesn't get much streaky than kobe.

Nash is going to turn the ball over. he'll improve the offense just because of penetration, scoring, and understanding the pick and roll

eliminating turnovers will not be one of his attributes
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#46 last stand 2.0

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Posted December 10, 2012 - 06:17 PM

You didn't give me anyone that could create their own shot and demanded double teams. Nash has 3 in the starting lineup.

I gave you why his turnover ratio was what it was and what was demanded of him to have to do because of who he was surrounded by.

No one on that list that you gave me at the time they were on that team was someone that could create their own shot and demand double teams.

The very least you could give me is one but you can't. Nash has never been surrounded by creators, he spoon fed every single one of them because they couldn't create for themselves which is why what he did was special because the people he was surrounded by were very one dimensional players and he had to do near everything when it came to their offense and what was asked of him to do.

He is not going to turnover the ball as much as he did in Phoenix and has never been surrounded by AN individual that could create for them self and demand double teams, let alone 3 in the starting lineup alone.

Can you even give me one from that Phoenix squad that at the time actually demanded double teams and could create a shot for them self that wasn't Steve Nash? No, you can't.


obviously he didn't simply spoon feed everyone or else his usage rate would be in the 30s and not the low 20s. where is your statistical proof exactly that he spoon fed everyone

amare was able to create for himself, still is when healthy

joe johnson was their backup PG when nash went out, he was able to create for himself and other.

marion isn't exactly kobe bryant but lets not pretend he's hakim warrick either.

spacing is as important as other creators. if not moreso in limiting turnovers. all having other creators does is limit possessions you control the ball. that doesn't stop people from doubling down on you if the other creators can't shoot.

tyreke can create for himself yet everyone leaves him wide open when isiah thomas drives in.

nash won't have any spacing here unless jamison starts and artest goes, and even then nash has shown an propensity for turning it over. provide some evidence or stop arguing
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#47 Majesty

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Posted December 10, 2012 - 06:23 PM

you have no proof, your entire argument is conjecture. Amare was an elite scoring big man, arguably the best in the league before his knees started giving out. marion was an elite finisher. and nash was surrounded by the best cast of shooters the league had to offer.

there is no spacing on this team. pau and artest are both incredibly inconsistent shooters, and it doesn't get much streaky than kobe.

Nash is going to turn the ball over. he'll improve the offense just because of penetration, scoring, and understanding the pick and roll

eliminating turnovers will not be one of his attributes



:laughing: :laughing:

Oh that was hilarious.

No and No.

You still haven't given me anyone that demanded double teams and could create for themselves without Nash spoon feeding them on offense. :smh:

Like I said, and have said over and over and over again.

Nash is surrounded by 3 individuals that do this.

Because of that Nash is having a lot of pressure taken off his shoulders.

Nash will never has as many open opportunities as he has in this offense because not only are those 3 capable of getting their own shots they are capable of drawing a lot of attention and Nash will benefit from that and get a LOT of wide open shots because of it.

Nash isn't used to this and there's a reason for that.

Nash is surrounded by Howard, Bryant and even Gasol. He has never had a better cast surrounding him his entire career and he hasn't had these type of guys take the kind of pressure off him like those 3 will. It will be much harder for teams to defend us and more often than not when we run the offense properly one or the other is going to be wide open and a lot of times Nash will be wide open and he's already one of the best shooters in the league by far and this is a proven statistical fact.

So believe what you want, but with Kobe, Howard and even Gasol on the team, Nash isn't going to turnover the ball nearly as much as he did in Phoenix.

And the fact you think only in the prospect of three point shooting with this lineup is also funny to me.

Double screen and rolls with the likes of Gasol and Howard are probably the REASON he doesn't want the Lakers to trade Gasol yet. Because case in point if Gasol gets his head out of his "insert whatever Windu would say here" then we become very hard to defend. But our turnovers are also going to go down.

You are HONESTLY gonna sit there and tell me that Nash isn't going to eliminate turnovers and that we'd have the same efficiency as Kobe, Metta, Duhon and Morris bringing it up the court and asked to be the guy that initiates the offense? Seriously?

Nash eliminates a bulk of our turnovers whether you like it or not and that is a main issue to our struggles. The offense we run is designed for a point guard we don't have or that is injured.

The closest is Duhon and he's already had a 10, 11 and 8 assist game and the turnovers he made yesterday were the kind Nash wouldn't make. You think that Duhon is going to do it as good as or on as even terms as Nash? He isn't. He isn't even running it the way Nash would.

Nash is going to eliminate turnovers. For you to even act like we're going to have the same turnover problems that we have when 4 other guys bring the ball up the court is laughable.

And if you say "I never said that" just remember you said Nash isn't going to help our turnover problem. So that would mean the only other option is you think our offense and problems with turnovers would have the same efficiency with Nash as it does without Nash, which is even more laughable.

And if you disagree that Nash will help then you're going to have to concede that turnovers go down upon his return. You can't have it both ways.

Edited by Majesty, December 10, 2012 - 06:29 PM.

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#48 last stand 2.0

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Posted December 10, 2012 - 06:50 PM

i only read the first half. too long. Nash will improve somethings. stop acting like i said nash coming back won't make a difference. i know you think that helps your argument. but those words were never typed.

floor spacing is important. you want to know why dwight is being stripped more than ever in LA. it's not like teams magically discovered that weakness this season. the defense can collapse on howard because we have no floor spacing.

you know when kobe drives in and has 3 guys collapse on him and dwight forcing a turnover. that's a spacing issue. nash handling the ball will see similar issues. as i said turnovers will slightly be reduced by morris going to the bench and duhon getting less minutes. but nash's impact turnover wise won't change he'll still add his 4 TOs.

Amare was an elite scoring big. if you don't think so it tells me how much PHX you really watched. amare was unstoppable.

i question your basketball knowledge sometimes. Amare was putting up 20ppg the season before nash got there. nash made life easier for amare just like kobe made life easier for pau as guards usually do for bigs. what happened when amare left to new york. still put up 25ppg on 50% shooting. amare has also always had a high usage rate meaning he touches the ball a ton in faceups and post ups

nash had players. i'm sure you were one of those guys who said nash shouldn't have gotten the MVP because he had so much talent, but now to fit your argument Nash had nothing and was by himself

just like the dwight howard argument i had with you. before bynum and dwight were close and a trade didn't make sense. then after we got dwight he was the best player and should have been MVP in 2009 over lebron lol.

this is consistent with your style so it's not surprising.
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#49 Majesty

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Posted December 10, 2012 - 07:14 PM

i only read the first half. too long. Nash will improve somethings. stop acting like i said nash coming back won't make a difference. i know you think that helps your argument. but those words were never typed.


So "eliminating turnovers will not be one of his attributes" was never typed by you? Alright then.

floor spacing is important. you want to know why dwight is being stripped more than ever in LA. it's not like teams magically discovered that weakness this season. the defense can collapse on howard because we have no floor spacing.

you know when kobe drives in and has 3 guys collapse on him and dwight forcing a turnover. that's a spacing issue. nash handling the ball will see similar issues. as i said turnovers will slightly be reduced by morris going to the bench and duhon getting less minutes. but nash's impact turnover wise won't change he'll still add his 4 TOs.


i STOPPED right there. Honestly I can't believe you even said that. Spacing is different when Nash is your main offensive facilitator rather than Kobe. Did you seriously say that the Lakers will see the same spacing issues with Nash handling the ball that we see when Kobe drives in on 3 defenders that collapse on them? ARE YOU SERIOUS!?!? I was this close to stopping reading entirely when I read that

Amare was an elite scoring big. if you don't think so it tells me how much PHX you really watched. amare was unstoppable.


because Marbury didn't help him at all in the pick and roll right? Nash feed him the ball in a better fashion though but Marbury did absolutely nothing for him right? Tell me how often does Amar'e demand double teams? Answer that please. I love how you just forgot all about how much Marbury helped get Amare the ball back then but whatever. Nash was a better player but to act like Amare did everything in Phoenix by himself before Nash got there is giggle inducing. Keep going.

marbury didn't help Stoudamire in the PnR one little..



oh...

i question your basketball knowledge sometimes. Amare was putting up 20ppg the season before nash got there. nash made life easier for amare just like kobe made life easier for pau as guards usually do for bigs. what happened when amare left to new york. still put up 25ppg on 50% shooting. amare has also always had a high usage rate meaning he touches the ball a ton in faceups and post ups


You saying that Amare was potentially the best scoring big man in the league around that time makes me question your basketball knowledge too.

And all Amar'e has done in New York is prove why he didn't deserve a max contract and shouldn't have been handed a franchise mantle. Isn't he coming off the bench now? um....

Oh wow shooting 50% by a center that doesn't demand double teams is so amazing..Chandler is shooting 70% so what is your point? :laughing:

nash had players. i'm sure you were one of those guys who said nash shouldn't have gotten the MVP because he had so much talent, but now to fit your argument Nash had nothing and was by himself


He shouldn't have because Kobe was even more spectacular with what he had. But those are two different positions, two different usages and Kobe didn't get the MVP due to politics. But I'm not going to sit here and act like Nash wasn't the most important player on that team or that he deserved credit. The only guy I ranked above Nash for MVP voting was Kobe and considering Kobe's prime that was astounding. Kobe had less around him than Nash did but to act like Nash had anyone around him that could create for themself and demand double teams on a night in night our basis is idiotic. But isn't that your MO? Trying to make one thing irrelevant to another? "Oh you give Steve Nash credit in Phoenix But I bet you didn't think he deserved MVP over Kobe oh ho ho!!" You're right, I didn't and no one else that has seen Kobe in his prime would think so either.

But fortunately I can give credit to both of them and not let that cloud my mind. Which you seem to think is impossible. So I guess to give Nash credit for what he did in Phoenix and being realistic about what he had and who he was surrounded by especially in comparison to who he is surrounded by now automatically means I had to be touting him for "MVP" back then right? That's funny.

just like the dwight howard argument i had with you. before bynum and dwight were close and a trade didn't make sense. then after we got dwight he was the best player and should have been MVP in 2009 over lebron lol.

this is consistent with your style so it's not surprising.


Maybe if you paid attention to what I said about Howard, I said that the reason I wanted top keep Bynum was because I felt that Howard had reached his ceiling in 2009 and thus Bynum had a higher ceiling since offensively and rebound wise him and Howard's numbers were close, and I also said that Howard's offensive numbers as a Laker would be similar to Bynum's who I felt was going to continue to improve. I ALSO conceded that Howard was a better defensive player than Bynum but to not sell Bynum short because he CAN play defense at times though not as consistently as Howard.

Stays consistent with what I said after we got him. I said that offensively and rebound wise his numbers would be close to Bynum's but that he'd offer more help on the defensive end and defending pick and rolls and he has.

I know you love to try to act like I'm suddenly praising Howard just because he's a Laker but the fact is my opinion on him when it came to who to keep between him and Bynum was very consistent.

I felt Howard had reached his ceiling in 2009 and that Bynum had yet to reach his and their "offensive and rebounding" numbers were similar and that Howard would put up similar offensive numbers and rebounding numbers to Bynum. He has. While I also conceded that Dwight was the better defender. Which he is. Just because I disagree about getting someone one year because of the reasons I posted above doesn't mean I don't give them credit where it's due which apparently you feel.


Just because I was against trading Bynum for a (then injured with no timetable on return) Dwight Howard for the reasons above I mentioned, didn't mean that I felt that Dwight shouldn't have won MVP in 2009 over LeBron 3 years earlier. Although I love how you try to make them the same

"Oh he didn't want to switch out Howard for Bynum because he felt Dwight reached his ceiling in 2009 and Bynum still hadn't reached his. Oh ho ho so that must mean he isn't a fan of Dwight Howard and would NEVER give him credit for that 2009 season, and if he ever says he deserved MVP that year he's a hypocrite because obviously he hates him! oh ho ho!"

Trying to make things black and white and overstate one opinion as somehow relating to another is cute but it doesn't work.

Try again.

Edited by Majesty, December 10, 2012 - 07:35 PM.

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#50 last stand 2.0

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Posted December 10, 2012 - 08:10 PM

only skimmed through the essay. amare had a higher usage rate than marbury that season not to mention amare was able to score before and after nash. amare can score and was an elite scoring big before his knees went away. he went from a dominant physical force to a skilled scorer with a jumper and solid touch around the rim. amare had the ball a ton and put up a ton of points at only 21 years old. also when chandler averages 25ppg on 50% shooting instead of 13ppg come back to me with that argument lol.

also i swear i saw you use "ho ho ho", i know it's close to christmas but the cheese is well, cheesy.

i saw no numbers in that post. other than the 70% chandler comment. skimmed for them, saw none, still no proof. done arguing
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#51 Majesty

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Posted December 10, 2012 - 08:21 PM

only skimmed through the essay. amare had a higher usage rate than marbury that season not to mention amare was able to score before and after nash. amare can score and was an elite scoring big before his knees went away. he went from a dominant physical force to a skilled scorer with a jumper and solid touch around the rim. amare had the ball a ton and put up a ton of points at only 21 years old. also when chandler averages 25ppg on 50% shooting instead of 13ppg come back to me with that argument lol.

also i swear i saw you use "ho ho ho", i know it's close to christmas but the cheese is well, cheesy.

i saw no numbers in that post. other than the 70% chandler comment. skimmed for them, saw none, still no proof. done arguing


Oh you want numbers? Alright

Amare's field goal percentage without Nash in phoenix 47% both years
Amare's field goal percentage when Nash got there: 55, 57 and 59 percent along with 53 percent and 55 percent...
Amare's field goal percentage when he went to New York without Nash, it dropped to 50 percent and then back to 48 percent.

But apparently Nash didn't do anything for him and he was just an unstoppable offensive force before Nash got there despite the fact about 80% of his offense was assisted off of because of Nash. But we'll ignore that too and say that Amare was fully capable of creating for himself and demand double teams and being an unstoppable force when without Nash spoon feeding him he averages 47% from the field as a freaking center. -_-

Glad you're done arguing, but you ran out of argument 3 posts ago when this discussion turned into being about the unstoppable offensive force that is Amar'e Stoudamire.

Edited by Majesty, December 10, 2012 - 08:33 PM.

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#52 last stand 2.0

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Posted December 10, 2012 - 09:48 PM

Oh you want numbers? Alright

Amare's field goal percentage without Nash in phoenix 47% both years
Amare's field goal percentage when Nash got there: 55, 57 and 59 percent along with 53 percent and 55 percent...
Amare's field goal percentage when he went to New York without Nash, it dropped to 50 percent and then back to 48 percent.

But apparently Nash didn't do anything for him and he was just an unstoppable offensive force before Nash got there despite the fact about 80% of his offense was assisted off of because of Nash. But we'll ignore that too and say that Amare was fully capable of creating for himself and demand double teams and being an unstoppable force when without Nash spoon feeding him he averages 47% from the field as a freaking center. -_-

Glad you're done arguing, but you ran out of argument 3 posts ago when this discussion turned into being about the unstoppable offensive force that is Amar'e Stoudamire.


you turned the argument into nash's teammates not me. i was just following your lead. where did i say nash did nothing for amare. go back and look, you'll find out that that never happened.

so you used his rookie year FG% and his most recent FG% where he was hobbled as your argument. interesting and hilarious. you still have yet to provide any numbers stating that nash is going to completely eliminate our turnover issue. i'm still waiting and it's been like 4 posts. when you get them this argument can continue.
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#53 Majesty

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Posted December 10, 2012 - 11:22 PM

you turned the argument into nash's teammates not me. i was just following your lead. where did i say nash did nothing for amare. go back and look, you'll find out that that never happened.

so you used his rookie year FG% and his most recent FG% where he was hobbled as your argument. interesting and hilarious. you still have yet to provide any numbers stating that nash is going to completely eliminate our turnover issue. i'm still waiting and it's been like 4 posts. when you get them this argument can continue.


Dude Amare only played 2 YEARS in the league before Nash got there.

You were the one that talked about how much of a force he was before Nash even got to Phoenix when you were trying to talk about how much of a creator he was for himself, you're the one that brought that up not me. Or did you forget already. So I brought up his percentages the TWO years he played without Nash, and then the years with Nash, and then now without Nash to show you how much of a difference it is. But you missed the point entirely.

You're the one that touted how great he was before Nash got there and how much of a creator he was(while trying to convince me) I said name someone that could create their own shot and demand double teams. You tried to give me Amare. I talked about how Nash helped him, you tried to respond how great he was before Nash got there even bringing up field goal percentage in New York, I showed you his statistics before Nash, during Nash and after Nash to take apart your argument.

All the stuff I linked was in response to the stuff you were trying to tout off on. So don't get mad at me if the numbers don't fall your way :)

Edited by Majesty, December 10, 2012 - 11:25 PM.

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#54 last stand 2.0

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Posted December 10, 2012 - 11:33 PM

Dude Amare only played 2 YEARS in the league before Nash got there.

You were the one that talked about how much of a force he was before Nash even got to Phoenix, you're the one that brought that up not me. Or did you forget already.


You completely missed the point. Amare had a really good season the year before Nash got there. Very strong for a 21 year old. One would say dominant.

The year after he left Phoenix he had another dominant scoring year

Nash made life easier of course. Nash made amare? Not a chance. Amare was a scoring talent without him. Would have average 20ppg regardless. Name a big man who prior to his injuries was as good as amare at scoring the ball. You'll find maybe 2. Probably only 1 dirk

What your trying to say for some reason is amare is incompetent without Nash. That nash was essentially creating these players ignoring that they were good players before him and have been good after him. They got easier buckets with him? Yes. But they are damn talented players on their own. So your assertion that Nash's turnovers being the fault of bad teammates is ridiculous. He had some of the more talented teams in basketball excluding the season where amare missed with micro fracture

Nash turns the ball over, if he doesn't here I'd be surprised. I'd love to live in the fantasy of thinking Nash is going to change his ways over a 17 year career. If he does great, only helps. Will he? I doubt it, numbers and history say otherwise.
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#55 Majesty

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Posted December 10, 2012 - 11:52 PM

You completely missed the point. Amare had a really good season the year before Nash got there. Very strong for a 21 year old. One would say dominant.

The year after he left Phoenix he had another dominant scoring year

Nash made life easier of course. Nash made amare? Not a chance. Amare was a scoring talent without him. Would have average 20ppg regardless. Name a big man who prior to his injuries was as good as amare at scoring the ball. You'll find maybe 2. Probably only 1 dirk

What your trying to say for some reason is amare is incompetent without Nash. That nash was essentially creating these players ignoring that they were good players before him and have been good after him. They got easier buckets with him? Yes. But they are damn talented players on their own. So your assertion that Nash's turnovers being the fault of bad teammates is ridiculous. He had some of the more talented teams in basketball excluding the season where amare missed with micro fracture

Nash turns the ball over, if he doesn't here I'd be surprised. I'd love to live in the fantasy of thinking Nash is going to change his ways over a 17 year career. If he does great, only helps. Will he? I doubt it, numbers and history say otherwise.


And you're missing my point. Without Nash he was scoring but at 47% which for a center is TERRIBLE regardless of your stats. When Nash got there his percentage skyrocketed to 55% because like I said, Nash was feeding him and he benefited from it. The fact you're trying to call Amare some DOMINANT big man because he got 20 points off of 47% shooting AS A CENTER is what is funny to me, his percentage shot up to the mid 50s because of Nash even near 60%!! THAT is astounding. Because of Nash, Amare went from being a 40% scorer to a darn near 60% Field goal scorer!! THAT is what Nash did for him. And he went back to New York and his percentage dropped 5% down to 50 and then down to 48 percent which is it's LOWEST since he was a rookie.

I don't call that dominance, I call it Nash feeding him and making his job a lot easier, and yes Nash did make him. It's evident when you watch his struggles WITHOUT Nash, he shot his lowest percentage since he was a rookie and for a CENTER that is not good. His peak with Nash was being a near 60% shooter and he goes to New York and it has now dropped to 48% which is it's lowest since he was a rookie and you still want to argue that a big bulk of his success has to do with Steve Nash? If you don't put Nash around Amar'e he may score 20 BUT he only does it shooting in the 40s of percentage and for a CENTER that is poor. With Nash it shoots up to about 55% to 60%, and without Nash you're 50% at best and 47% on average.. as a CENTER.

But of course Nash didn't make him..

I think you missed my point entirely.

Edited by Majesty, December 10, 2012 - 11:55 PM.

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#56 LakeShow805

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Posted December 11, 2012 - 10:10 AM

And you're missing my point. Without Nash he was scoring but at 47% which for a center is TERRIBLE regardless of your stats. When Nash got there his percentage skyrocketed to 55% because like I said, Nash was feeding him and he benefited from it. The fact you're trying to call Amare some DOMINANT big man because he got 20 points off of 47% shooting AS A CENTER is what is funny to me, his percentage shot up to the mid 50s because of Nash even near 60%!! THAT is astounding. Because of Nash, Amare went from being a 40% scorer to a darn near 60% Field goal scorer!! THAT is what Nash did for him. And he went back to New York and his percentage dropped 5% down to 50 and then down to 48 percent which is it's LOWEST since he was a rookie.

I don't call that dominance, I call it Nash feeding him and making his job a lot easier, and yes Nash did make him. It's evident when you watch his struggles WITHOUT Nash, he shot his lowest percentage since he was a rookie and for a CENTER that is not good. His peak with Nash was being a near 60% shooter and he goes to New York and it has now dropped to 48% which is it's lowest since he was a rookie and you still want to argue that a big bulk of his success has to do with Steve Nash? If you don't put Nash around Amar'e he may score 20 BUT he only does it shooting in the 40s of percentage and for a CENTER that is poor. With Nash it shoots up to about 55% to 60%, and without Nash you're 50% at best and 47% on average.. as a CENTER.

But of course Nash didn't make him..

I think you missed my point entirely.

Lol you still haven't proven that nash will decrease the turnovers by a good amount

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#57 GCMD

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Posted December 11, 2012 - 12:50 PM

Steve Nash will change this team. The ball will be in his hands until a play or opportunity presents itself...and Nash rarely makes a bad pass.

This team will learn to adjust to the offense easier with Nash at the helm.


As far as the defense, it starts at the top. If we can get our starters (since most people hate when I call out Kobe) to play solid defense, we can start to get some consistency out of this team...that's important in developing chemistry and an identity.

Edited by GCMD, December 11, 2012 - 12:52 PM.





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