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Is Kobe Bryant in the top 5 of all-time on your list?


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#41 King Joseph

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Posted December 06, 2012 - 11:25 PM

you were 6 or 7 years old in the year 2000, not sure if you wanna count seeing games from the 90's the same unless were talking youtube (though youtube doesnt hold that many games). you're bball IQ was nowhere near what it is now (young adult vs young child)


lol of course my IQ is more now, I was saying thats all the memories I have of basketball is from the late 90's and 2000's and I do remember games from then I was actually pretty good at basketball for my age then so thats all I was fed as a little kid. Some kids get into the piano when there young, I got into basketball. lol But yeah whats your top 5 though ?
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#42 Lakers4Life

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Posted December 06, 2012 - 11:47 PM

In terms of the argument whether Lebron goes ahead of Kobe in the future all depends on how Lebron ages for me. His 27 now in his athletic prime. But the reason why Kobe and MJ were so great is because they adjusted not once, not twice, not three, not four... (you get my point lol). Can Lebron adjust? Can he still be dominating a game at age 34. Time will tell. But if he continues the way he is for another 5 years winning about 3-4 out of the next 5. Trust me has a MASSIVE chance of putting himself in the top 5 if not top 3. You dont end up with 5 rings, 5+ MVPS without being in the top 5. Lebron already has 3 MVPS. He looks like his about to get his 4th this year as well.
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#43 manaro90

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Posted December 07, 2012 - 12:59 AM

KOBE IS MY OWN MICHAEL JORDAN OF MY GENERATION!

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#44 fozi

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Posted December 07, 2012 - 01:15 AM

In terms of the argument whether Lebron goes ahead of Kobe in the future all depends on how Lebron ages for me. His 27 now in his athletic prime. But the reason why Kobe and MJ were so great is because they adjusted not once, not twice, not three, not four... (you get my point lol). Can Lebron adjust? Can he still be dominating a game at age 34. Time will tell. But if he continues the way he is for another 5 years winning about 3-4 out of the next 5. Trust me has a MASSIVE chance of putting himself in the top 5 if not top 3. You dont end up with 5 rings, 5+ MVPS without being in the top 5. Lebron already has 3 MVPS. He looks like his about to get his 4th this year as well.



I don't think he can.. he's depending on his athleticism which wont last at 31 or so ...


The only time he has to adjust is when his body tells him to. I cant find any reason for him to adjust now though , improve yes , adjust no.

Edited by fozi, December 07, 2012 - 01:16 AM.


#45 AnnoyingCustomer

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Posted December 07, 2012 - 02:07 AM

Kobe is without a doubt Top 5 IMO and will most likely finish only behind Jordan when he finally hangs it up...

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#46 alec613

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Posted December 07, 2012 - 04:31 AM

My top 10
MJ
Kareem
Magic
Russel (He's not as skilled as all of these any of these guys, but he has the resume
Kobe (mainly because of longevity. Had Duncan ahead of him last year)
Duncan /Bird
Wilt (mainly because he under achieved, despite being a game/rule changer and all)
Shaq
Hakeem

Edited by alec613, December 07, 2012 - 04:32 AM.

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#47 Nak

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Posted December 07, 2012 - 05:10 AM

He's my GOAT, plain and simple.

Arguably the greatest franchise ever


#48 CameronStewart

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Posted December 07, 2012 - 06:07 AM

My top five all time are Kobe, MJ, Wilt, Magic and Pau Gasol.

#49 Real Deal

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Posted December 07, 2012 - 06:26 AM

Rings aside, Kobe is the second-most complete player in NBA history, behind Michael Jordan. In his absolute best, just like Mike, there were no holes in Kobe's game...at all. He scored from 24 feet in, played standout defense, excellent passer, excellent post player, very good slasher and finisher, outstanding jumpshooter...all there.

Add the rings (five of them), and there's definitely no doubt that he's top five.

The only thing that hurts Kobe in such a list is the amount of season MVP's he has. That's it. When stacked against all of the All-NBA teams, All-Defensive squads, scoring titles, and rings...that MVP award becomes less relevant.

It's not going to be the popular opinion, but I'm going with it anyway...

1) Michael Jordan
2) Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
3) Kobe Bryant
4) Magic Johnson
5) Wilt Chamberlain
6) Bill Russell
7) Larry Bird
8) Hakeem Olajuwon
9) Tim Duncan
10) Shaquille O'Neal

Oscar Robertson is #11.

Sorry, in advance, for those who are going to scream at the list because Magic isn't in the top three, and because Wilt and Russell are #5 and #6. I'm sure people will wonder why Robertson is #11.

Simply put, I'm not slapping those guys' hands for playing in an era that was so watered down, there were around 10 teams, and shooting 30-39% was actually seen as good. Wilt Chamberlain averaged 50 PPG in a season where he played 48.5 MPG (basically, every single minute of every game, including OT's), and where teams admitted they wanted to see him shatter records, which is exactly what happened in the 100-point game. Oscar averaged a triple-double, but again, in a super-weak era...he was the LeBron James of the 60's. Jason Kidd was very close to averaging a triple-double, same with Grant Hill and Michael Jordan. Magic Johnson nearly averaged 19/10/10 once (the closest to it).

But one championship for Oscar, and the fact that his MVP didn't come in the triple-double season (he placed 3rd, and do you know why?)...it doesn't set well with me in the same way that McGrady's scoring didn't when he was in Orlando. Oscar's championship came in 1971, when the league was developing, and he averaged 19/6/8. That season, the NBA had 17 teams. The Bucks won 66 games that year. What happened during his triple-double season? It came in 1962, nine total teams in the NBA, and he and the Royals won just 43 games. That team had him, Jack Twyman (HOF'er), and Wayne Embry (20/13 PF)...all three healthy and in their primes.

For the same reasons Oscar isn't so high, you'll find Wilt out of the top three. Chamberlain took 40 shots a night to average his 50 PPG, played 48.5 MPG, shot 50% from the floor that season, just eight teams in the NBA, didn't win over 46 games that year. Really? In Wilt's first 10 years in the league, he never averaged under 45 MPG. In his first six years, he never shot under 28 FGA/G...yet, never averaged 53% FG in those first six. When was Wilt's best season? Probably when he dropped 24/24/8 on 68% shooting, in Philly, at 30 years old.

Bill Russell is lucky to have his 11 rings, or else he would have been left off the list. Excellent defensive player, but a horrible offensive player. He was a big man that shot 44% for his career, averaged over 45% maybe three times (meaning, 46+ or better, rounded), won 11 rings with super-talented teams and a top three legend coach, and rebounded as well as any other top big man back in that era.

And I'll put it out there, clear as day: Magic is not better than Kobe. That ship sailed when Kobe landed #5...but as an overall player, nope. No player will disagree with that, either. Some will say that Magic is "greater" because of the impact he had on the game...but I'm not going to stiff Bryant for being born at a later year, and into a league that wasn't trashed by previous eras. The true reason why the NBA was near death was because players like Wilt and Oscar were not able to put up those incredible numbers anymore...the sport added more teams, a three-point line was added, defense and shooting percentages were improved among all players (not just one guy for each team), and athleticism started to spread throughout those teams...definitely helped that they were better-trained, with advanced resources (back then, compared to the 50s and 60s). We don't stick George Mikan in the top ten list for being the first true big man, and first dunker, so Magic shouldn't go over Kobe for "saving the NBA" with his rivalry with Bird + the Showtime era, where he basically ran with Kareem, Worthy, Nixon, Wilkes, and other very talented players that were landing all-star spots due to their individual talent.

In addition to that, nine of the ten greatest defensive teams in NBA history are from Kobe's era. Keep it in mind. You can argue how hand-checking makes things tougher, but if you do that, it tells me you never did play ball because, quite frankly, hand-checking is laughable compared to a tight zone defense that is installed to stop YOU. There is a reason why FG% were so high in Jordan's era, among all of those guards (take a trip back and look, you'll be amazed...you'll probably find 40-50 guards that averaged 15+ PPG on 50% shooting or better in Jordan's era, and you don't see much of that today). Truth is, the last 10-15 years have been tougher than any other era in basketball history, and you can't ignore that.

#50 Calisupra2nr

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Posted December 07, 2012 - 06:52 AM

Not sure who you think you are talking to other members that way but you're going to stop right now. This thread is for members to voice who they have in their top 5, it's THEIR OPINION. If you think they are wrong then great but you will not talk down to members like you are doing.

Consider this your warning.


Please...don't get all worrisome over something so trivial. Embrace debate. Ever seen First Take on ESPN? Of course MDI can have his own opinion, I was not even being insulting as much as I was messing around and poking at the beast (hence my use of the hyperbole 'blasphemy' and telling him to go study). All I care about is MDI's reasoning behind his top 5. If he can make a sound argument, great, otherwise I can disagree and call him out? I don't want to harass him, but at the same time not including MJ in your top 1 is pretty ludicrous to me. I am sorry I was not all lovey-dovey about it. Let me try again,

"MDI. You are a great person and I respect your opinions because you are a smart individual, but can you please help me understand your position on this top 5 list you put together? Thank you!"

What fun is that?

Sorry MDI if you were offended. This is one of those situations where context gets lost behind the computer screen.

#51 bfc1125roy

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Posted December 07, 2012 - 08:20 AM

Kobe's top 5 all time right now, as it stands. Most posters here have covered the reasons for that. I think he'll finish #2 when it's all said and done, he's already the most skilled player of all time and second best in terms of on-court performance, imo.

#52 DanishLakerFan

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Posted December 07, 2012 - 09:42 AM

Hate these typical rankings! It shoud be a tier ranking instead!

Tier 1: Kareem, Wilt, MJ, Russell
Tier 2: Bird, Kobe, Magic, Shaq, Duncan
Tier 3: Big O, Havlicek, Malone, Barkley, KG etc.

Kobe will be in Tier 1 before all is said and done...

#53 West Coast

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Posted December 07, 2012 - 10:11 AM

Please...don't get all worrisome over something so trivial. Embrace debate. Ever seen First Take on ESPN? Of course MDI can have his own opinion, I was not even being insulting as much as I was messing around and poking at the beast (hence my use of the hyperbole 'blasphemy' and telling him to go study). All I care about is MDI's reasoning behind his top 5. If he can make a sound argument, great, otherwise I can disagree and call him out? I don't want to harass him, but at the same time not including MJ in your top 1 is pretty ludicrous to me. I am sorry I was not all lovey-dovey about it. Let me try again,

"MDI. You are a great person and I respect your opinions because you are a smart individual, but can you please help me understand your position on this top 5 list you put together? Thank you!"

What fun is that?

Sorry MDI if you were offended. This is one of those situations where context gets lost behind the computer screen.


Well one, you're definitely not going to lecture me so im glad you got that out of your system.

Two, don't talk down to other members. Simple as that. Don't need a long response from you, just listen and move on. You also called MDI a troll which is the biggest problem I had.

This thread is "Is Kobe in the top 5 of all-time on your list?" It isn't "Is Kobe in the top 5 of all-time on your list as long as that list has Jordan #1" thread.

If you believe MJ is #1 then awesome. But you can scratch and claw all you want in a discussion and you're probably not going to change other people's minds who have someone else at #1. Debate it, that's fine. But as soon as your result to name calling or insults, it just lessens your credibility.

Now back to the topic at hand.

#54 MyJohnsonIsMagic

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Posted December 07, 2012 - 10:26 AM

My top five all time are Kobe, MJ, Wilt, Magic and Pau Gasol.


Pau Gasol? REALLY?

Don't let Windu see that lol

#55 Obsidien

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Posted December 07, 2012 - 10:37 AM

Pau Gasol? REALLY?

Don't let Windu see that lol


^^ When I saw that I cringed, I have to be honest. Then I thought the exact same thing, don't let Windu see this :)

This will teach the league to basketball reason Lakers


#56 InterNLakerNajkihh

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Posted December 07, 2012 - 10:40 AM

don't get me wrong, but how the hell can you rank players from different ERAs different position?

thats just unfair

#57 gque24

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Posted December 07, 2012 - 11:55 AM

of course he is. any1 that holds MJ that high has to hold Kobe as an equal
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#58 King Joseph

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Posted December 07, 2012 - 03:56 PM

Rings aside, Kobe is the second-most complete player in NBA history, behind Michael Jordan. In his absolute best, just like Mike, there were no holes in Kobe's game...at all. He scored from 24 feet in, played standout defense, excellent passer, excellent post player, very good slasher and finisher, outstanding jumpshooter...all there.

Add the rings (five of them), and there's definitely no doubt that he's top five.

The only thing that hurts Kobe in such a list is the amount of season MVP's he has. That's it. When stacked against all of the All-NBA teams, All-Defensive squads, scoring titles, and rings...that MVP award becomes less relevant.

It's not going to be the popular opinion, but I'm going with it anyway...

1) Michael Jordan
2) Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
3) Kobe Bryant
4) Magic Johnson
5) Wilt Chamberlain
6) Bill Russell
7) Larry Bird
8) Hakeem Olajuwon
9) Tim Duncan
10) Shaquille O'Neal

Oscar Robertson is #11.

Sorry, in advance, for those who are going to scream at the list because Magic isn't in the top three, and because Wilt and Russell are #5 and #6. I'm sure people will wonder why Robertson is #11.

Simply put, I'm not slapping those guys' hands for playing in an era that was so watered down, there were around 10 teams, and shooting 30-39% was actually seen as good. Wilt Chamberlain averaged 50 PPG in a season where he played 48.5 MPG (basically, every single minute of every game, including OT's), and where teams admitted they wanted to see him shatter records, which is exactly what happened in the 100-point game. Oscar averaged a triple-double, but again, in a super-weak era...he was the LeBron James of the 60's. Jason Kidd was very close to averaging a triple-double, same with Grant Hill and Michael Jordan. Magic Johnson nearly averaged 19/10/10 once (the closest to it).

But one championship for Oscar, and the fact that his MVP didn't come in the triple-double season (he placed 3rd, and do you know why?)...it doesn't set well with me in the same way that McGrady's scoring didn't when he was in Orlando. Oscar's championship came in 1971, when the league was developing, and he averaged 19/6/8. That season, the NBA had 17 teams. The Bucks won 66 games that year. What happened during his triple-double season? It came in 1962, nine total teams in the NBA, and he and the Royals won just 43 games. That team had him, Jack Twyman (HOF'er), and Wayne Embry (20/13 PF)...all three healthy and in their primes.

For the same reasons Oscar isn't so high, you'll find Wilt out of the top three. Chamberlain took 40 shots a night to average his 50 PPG, played 48.5 MPG, shot 50% from the floor that season, just eight teams in the NBA, didn't win over 46 games that year. Really? In Wilt's first 10 years in the league, he never averaged under 45 MPG. In his first six years, he never shot under 28 FGA/G...yet, never averaged 53% FG in those first six. When was Wilt's best season? Probably when he dropped 24/24/8 on 68% shooting, in Philly, at 30 years old.

Bill Russell is lucky to have his 11 rings, or else he would have been left off the list. Excellent defensive player, but a horrible offensive player. He was a big man that shot 44% for his career, averaged over 45% maybe three times (meaning, 46+ or better, rounded), won 11 rings with super-talented teams and a top three legend coach, and rebounded as well as any other top big man back in that era.

And I'll put it out there, clear as day: Magic is not better than Kobe. That ship sailed when Kobe landed #5...but as an overall player, nope. No player will disagree with that, either. Some will say that Magic is "greater" because of the impact he had on the game...but I'm not going to stiff Bryant for being born at a later year, and into a league that wasn't trashed by previous eras. The true reason why the NBA was near death was because players like Wilt and Oscar were not able to put up those incredible numbers anymore...the sport added more teams, a three-point line was added, defense and shooting percentages were improved among all players (not just one guy for each team), and athleticism started to spread throughout those teams...definitely helped that they were better-trained, with advanced resources (back then, compared to the 50s and 60s). We don't stick George Mikan in the top ten list for being the first true big man, and first dunker, so Magic shouldn't go over Kobe for "saving the NBA" with his rivalry with Bird + the Showtime era, where he basically ran with Kareem, Worthy, Nixon, Wilkes, and other very talented players that were landing all-star spots due to their individual talent.

In addition to that, nine of the ten greatest defensive teams in NBA history are from Kobe's era. Keep it in mind. You can argue how hand-checking makes things tougher, but if you do that, it tells me you never did play ball because, quite frankly, hand-checking is laughable compared to a tight zone defense that is installed to stop YOU. There is a reason why FG% were so high in Jordan's era, among all of those guards (take a trip back and look, you'll be amazed...you'll probably find 40-50 guards that averaged 15+ PPG on 50% shooting or better in Jordan's era, and you don't see much of that today). Truth is, the last 10-15 years have been tougher than any other era in basketball history, and you can't ignore that.


Another great post, I always laughed when old heads try to disrespect this new era, if you don't think this is the toughest/Skilled basketball era to play in you are either delusional or to generational (which is the most reason as ex players or fans will lean to there era for pride sake). Zone defense is by far more effecting then man 2 man/Handchecking. Handchecking wouldn't help you agianst the new guards of this era, it would actually put you at there advantage because as a player you actually want a guy riding your hip cus its more eisier to pass him which commands a help defender which puts the defense unbalanced. But I like your points overall, especially Russel as I researched his stats a few week backs and noticed his shooting percantage wasn't what I espected for such a Great big man. But there is no wrong list unless we can make a legend leauge and play the greats now agianst all era greats.

Edited by King Joseph, December 07, 2012 - 03:58 PM.

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#59 Lakers4Life

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Posted December 07, 2012 - 04:02 PM

don't get me wrong, but how the hell can you rank players from different ERAs different position?

thats just unfair


Thats the beauty of the debate. Every single person/opinion will have something different.
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#60 foreveryoung

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Posted December 07, 2012 - 04:29 PM

Yes. My list goes:

MJ
Kobe
Magic
Kareem
Russell

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