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What do you think about Kobe's defense?


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#41 LALakersFan4Life

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Posted December 05, 2012 - 12:32 AM

I thought he played much better defense tonight. The tandem of him n Dwight held harden to 3-19 or something terrible.

We got torched by Gary smith or whoever the [expletive] joe schmo that was and toney Douglass (Duhon and DMo's man) tonight. What was it like 60 bench points for Houston? Geez!

Greg Smith. Another Cali guy who nobody has heard of torching the Lakers. Same old trend.

#42 LALakersFan4Life

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Posted December 05, 2012 - 12:32 AM

I thought he played much better defense tonight. The tandem of him n Dwight held harden to 3-19 or something terrible.

We got torched by Gary smith or whoever the [expletive] joe schmo that was and toney Douglass (Duhon and DMo's man) tonight. What was it like 60 bench points for Houston? Geez!

Greg Smith. Another Cali guy who nobody has heard of torching the Lakers. Same old trend.

#43 Windu

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Posted December 05, 2012 - 06:20 AM

I think he's a lazy player on defense.

Pau Gasol is GONE


#44 noknife

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Posted December 05, 2012 - 06:28 AM

His covers are routinely unknown players that routinely have career nights while he is "guarding" them. That isn't what I think either, the stats will back that up.

#45 Real Deal

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Posted December 05, 2012 - 06:37 AM

Kobe's defensive numbers...

oppFG%: 44.4%
oppPER: 10.3

That's opponet FG% and opponent PER (what he allows per 48-minute production), by the way...for those who aren't familiar with the advanced stats.

LeBron James: 50.3%, 19.9
Tony Allen: 44.5%, 13.1
Ron Artest: 51.6%, 13.8
Rajon Rondo: 50.6%, 15.8
Arron Afflalo: 50%, 12.1
Andre Iguodala: 46.2%, 10.2
Luol Deng: 46.1%, 10.8

It may seem like Kobe's defense is horrible, but I hope you guys realize he's arguably a top three defensive player in the league right now (numbers showing the best among those I posted above, more than likely a majority of all starters in the NBA).

In fact, these may be Kobe's best defensive numbers of his career. In the 2010-11 season, Kobe allowed 46.4% FG and 11.8 PER.

Most of you will go back and say that we don't defend shooters. We are top ten (6th) in defending the three-point line, holding teams to 33.3% shooting from there.

Kobe has been assigned to roam for years. I'm sure it's not his choice. Older players don't necessarily like to roam on defense, because it wastes energy since 1) they have to close out, which is tough to do, and 2) they end up engaging in big man battles, or running into faster players.

With almost every PG we've ever had since Kobe has taken over the league, we've had defensive issues. With Shaq not being able to defend the P&R, Odom not being intelligent enough, and now Gasol causing us problems with his knees and lack of physicality...we have to pick either Kobe or Ron to roam.

Artest is assigned LeBron, Melo, Pierce, Durant, etc. because he's a physical defender with quick hands.

Kobe is assigned roaming duties because he's one of the smartest defensive players in the NBA.

People saw the same thing with Shane Battier and Bruce Bowen all of those years. Neither had the speed to keep up with players at one point, but their defensive IQ's were so high, they knew how to shake up an opposing team's strategy. They knew where to lead particular scorers (baseline, paint, out of recognized hot spots) and how to do it without fouling.

For those who are saying Kobe is a bad defender, you aren't watching the entire time. One or two slips, the one time he doesn't close out and he gives up a three...and suddenly, you're set.

Ask Kobe to play bad defense every possession, as assumed, and the Lakers would most definitely not be top ten in defense this season (as they are right now), and Kobe wouldn't be putting up those standout defensive numbers that are quite hard to argue against.

#46 True Lakers Fan

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Posted December 05, 2012 - 06:39 AM

;Yes Windu, he's just a Lazy on defense, he's been atrocious for years on D

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#47 Japago

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Posted December 05, 2012 - 08:05 AM

Kobe's defensive numbers...

oppFG%: 44.4%
oppPER: 10.3

That's opponet FG% and opponent PER (what he allows per 48-minute production), by the way...for those who aren't familiar with the advanced stats.

LeBron James: 50.3%, 19.9
Tony Allen: 44.5%, 13.1
Ron Artest: 51.6%, 13.8
Rajon Rondo: 50.6%, 15.8
Arron Afflalo: 50%, 12.1
Andre Iguodala: 46.2%, 10.2
Luol Deng: 46.1%, 10.8

It may seem like Kobe's defense is horrible, but I hope you guys realize he's arguably a top three defensive player in the league right now (numbers showing the best among those I posted above, more than likely a majority of all starters in the NBA).

In fact, these may be Kobe's best defensive numbers of his career. In the 2010-11 season, Kobe allowed 46.4% FG and 11.8 PER.

Most of you will go back and say that we don't defend shooters. We are top ten (6th) in defending the three-point line, holding teams to 33.3% shooting from there.

Kobe has been assigned to roam for years. I'm sure it's not his choice. Older players don't necessarily like to roam on defense, because it wastes energy since 1) they have to close out, which is tough to do, and 2) they end up engaging in big man battles, or running into faster players.

With almost every PG we've ever had since Kobe has taken over the league, we've had defensive issues. With Shaq not being able to defend the P&R, Odom not being intelligent enough, and now Gasol causing us problems with his knees and lack of physicality...we have to pick either Kobe or Ron to roam.

Artest is assigned LeBron, Melo, Pierce, Durant, etc. because he's a physical defender with quick hands.

Kobe is assigned roaming duties because he's one of the smartest defensive players in the NBA.

People saw the same thing with Shane Battier and Bruce Bowen all of those years. Neither had the speed to keep up with players at one point, but their defensive IQ's were so high, they knew how to shake up an opposing team's strategy. They knew where to lead particular scorers (baseline, paint, out of recognized hot spots) and how to do it without fouling.

For those who are saying Kobe is a bad defender, you aren't watching the entire time. One or two slips, the one time he doesn't close out and he gives up a three...and suddenly, you're set.

Ask Kobe to play bad defense every possession, as assumed, and the Lakers would most definitely not be top ten in defense this season (as they are right now), and Kobe wouldn't be putting up those standout defensive numbers that are quite hard to argue against.


That's very interesting.

How should the Lakers improve on D then? Because clearly something is wrong when the Lakers need to get stops the most.

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#48 Real Deal

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Posted December 05, 2012 - 08:27 AM

That's very interesting.

How should the Lakers improve on D then? Because clearly something is wrong when the Lakers need to get stops the most.

The two best players on our team are basically doing everything, playing big minutes, being the two best defensive AND offensive players on the roster.

If we can find consistent production from others on this roster, not have Kobe facilitating as much (come back, Nash), and not having to rely on Howard to step up and defend all of the PG's and PF's that slip and slide to the rim with ease...then we can close out games.

Jamison can't come in and give us 30+ points in one game, and five points in the next. We can't have Ron Artest wanting to spot up and shoot threes one night, then recklessly attack the rim the next. Darius Morris can't decide to play like a pass-first PG in one game, and then act like Ronald Murray later on. Pau Gasol doesn't know if he's Vlade Divac or Andrea Bargnani.

Too much inconsistency. It's forcing our two superstars to do far too much. Kobe is much older than he was in 2006, and Dwight is still not 100% (and I'll predict it will take until mid-January for him to get there). Our team is older, much like Boston was in 2010, so we have to start playing with that in mind...not playing like we're an average age of 23.

A high-octane offense isn't going to work right now, despite us being in the top 11-12 in the league in Offensive Rating (points per 100 possessions). We have to go back to playing a slower game, possibly Kobe and Dwight's idea back when Bickerstaff was coaching (because Bernie probably let them do as they pleased), and when Nash returns, we can speed it up just slightly and incorporate heavy P&R, and somehow find a way to get Gasol's ass back into the mix (or just trade him for an athletic SF or PF).

Kobe (triangle), Dwight (four out, one in) and Nash (run and gun) all need an offense constructed around them. They all had their best seasons through those three offenses. Gasol (triangle), Jamison (four out, one in) and Meeks (run and gun) are the same way, but as role players who depend on superstars and all-stars to create opportunities for them.

We can't operate like this. Our players can't finish games, on defense OR offense. We need Nash back, and we need to trade Gasol (unless Kobe and Nash somehow find a way to rejuvenate his career, which will be tough given how the offense will be ran + the current head coach's hesitation to post players up). Otherwise, we're just playing to win regular season games. The elites will crush us in the playoffs. We would have to completely ditch our offense, and rely strictly on our talent, to beat them...and even that is a stretch because, even though we have a lot of talent, that surge we can provide won't last for a full 48 minutes (due to age and the need for adequate bench play)...and that's why teams have an offense in place to begin with.

#49 Mr Terrific

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Posted December 05, 2012 - 12:31 PM

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#50 Jay Cee

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Posted December 05, 2012 - 01:15 PM

Better defensive point guard would help. More athletic sf would help too. Need a couple young guys to come off the bench and contribute. Meeks is a spot up shooter, not much defense. Jamison is old, Hill does a good job. Morris/Duhon suck. Back when we had Ariza and Farmar it helped enormously. They aren't great players, but they could hustle. Nobody on the Lakers can hustle right now. Remember those steals against Denver in the WCF a few years ago? NOBODY on this team can make those plays that Ariza made.

So basically (outside of Dwight) we have an extremely non-athletic team, our perimeter guys can't stay in front of the opposing team when they drive.

--- More to the point though, Kobe's defense is better than what I would expect from any other 34 year old who is also expected to carry the scoring load. I don't know how much of it is him being lazy, I think that's a harsh adjective. It's entirely possible that he is just tired from logging ridiculous minutes (16th in the league in minutes) and being old. The only other 30+ year old player who puts in 37 minutes per game is Joe Johnson at 31.

There is one guy in the top 50 for minutes per game who is older than Kobe, and that's 35 year old Paul Pierce at number 49, averaging just under 34 minutes per game.

Sooooo wrapping up a long post, especially with his increased ball handling duties, he's playing way too much and being expected to do way to much. He needs to take less shots, needs to sit more, needs more out of Jodie Meeks on both ends of the floor.

Edited by djcovi, December 05, 2012 - 01:27 PM.


#51 MyJohnsonIsMagic

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Posted December 05, 2012 - 01:19 PM

^

Too add to that, D'Antoni was never famous for his elite defensive schemes.

#52 KobeBeef24

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Posted December 05, 2012 - 01:34 PM

The only problem I have with his defence is when he doesn't get back on D right away due to him complaining about calls he didn't get. That SOMETIMES leads to poor defensive rotations that his defensively poor teammates can't handle. Then again, Kobe's a good defender and no one remembers the good, only the bad.

#53 GCMD

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Posted December 05, 2012 - 09:45 PM

Kobe's defense is horrible...and he's not even trying.

As a coach, it's infuriating...

#54 DanishLakerFan

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Posted December 05, 2012 - 10:02 PM

I think there is a good reason for Kobe's defense - or lack of. He is simply trying to hit the 30k mark asap. It was the same thing when he was close to passing Shaq - he stopped playing defense and spent all his energy on the offensive end.

Like Pau Gasol said on Kobe passing Shaquille O'Neal: "Good, now we can go back to winning basketballgames."

I think this is the same situation...

#55 Busty Bluth

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Posted December 05, 2012 - 10:08 PM

Kobe hasn't played well on defense for the past 5 years. It's not just today.

This.

Kobe was floating and gambling on D back in 08'.

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#56 GCMD

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Posted December 05, 2012 - 10:12 PM

Kobe's defensive numbers...

oppFG%: 44.4%
oppPER: 10.3

That's opponet FG% and opponent PER (what he allows per 48-minute production), by the way...for those who aren't familiar with the advanced stats.

LeBron James: 50.3%, 19.9
Tony Allen: 44.5%, 13.1
Ron Artest: 51.6%, 13.8
Rajon Rondo: 50.6%, 15.8
Arron Afflalo: 50%, 12.1
Andre Iguodala: 46.2%, 10.2
Luol Deng: 46.1%, 10.8

It may seem like Kobe's defense is horrible, but I hope you guys realize he's arguably a top three defensive player in the league right now (numbers showing the best among those I posted above, more than likely a majority of all starters in the NBA).

In fact, these may be Kobe's best defensive numbers of his career. In the 2010-11 season, Kobe allowed 46.4% FG and 11.8 PER.

Most of you will go back and say that we don't defend shooters. We are top ten (6th) in defending the three-point line, holding teams to 33.3% shooting from there.

Kobe has been assigned to roam for years. I'm sure it's not his choice. Older players don't necessarily like to roam on defense, because it wastes energy since 1) they have to close out, which is tough to do, and 2) they end up engaging in big man battles, or running into faster players.

With almost every PG we've ever had since Kobe has taken over the league, we've had defensive issues. With Shaq not being able to defend the P&R, Odom not being intelligent enough, and now Gasol causing us problems with his knees and lack of physicality...we have to pick either Kobe or Ron to roam.

Artest is assigned LeBron, Melo, Pierce, Durant, etc. because he's a physical defender with quick hands.

Kobe is assigned roaming duties because he's one of the smartest defensive players in the NBA.

People saw the same thing with Shane Battier and Bruce Bowen all of those years. Neither had the speed to keep up with players at one point, but their defensive IQ's were so high, they knew how to shake up an opposing team's strategy. They knew where to lead particular scorers (baseline, paint, out of recognized hot spots) and how to do it without fouling.

For those who are saying Kobe is a bad defender, you aren't watching the entire time. One or two slips, the one time he doesn't close out and he gives up a three...and suddenly, you're set.

Ask Kobe to play bad defense every possession, as assumed, and the Lakers would most definitely not be top ten in defense this season (as they are right now), and Kobe wouldn't be putting up those standout defensive numbers that are quite hard to argue against.


I respect you RD but none of that matters.

Kobe is playing like straight crap on defense and there is absolutely NO statistic that changes that. You can pull up 20 plays/game from the last 4 games where Kobe was out of position or just didn't make good decisions on the defensive end that left the rest of the team out to dry.

Kobe's defense is indefensible.

#57 Majesty

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Posted December 05, 2012 - 10:23 PM

I respect you RD but none of that matters.

Kobe is playing like straight crap on defense and there is absolutely NO statistic that changes that. You can pull up 20 plays/game from the last 4 games where Kobe was out of position or just didn't make good decisions on the defensive end that left the rest of the team out to dry.

Kobe's defense is indefensible.


So statistics don't matter? And so you can pull up 5 plays during an entire 48 minutes where he was out of position? Not bad.

But apparently he's terrible defensively despite statistics showing otherwise because he got lost 5 times.

Eventhough 3 of the 5 he was running through 2 screens that no one else rotated on. But nope, it's all Kobe's fault.

And he's one of the top defenders in this league, trying to say "statistics don't matter" is like saying you know you're wrong but just don't want to admit it.

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#58 Real Deal

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Posted December 05, 2012 - 10:33 PM

It's common to agree with a popular decision when you're looking for answers.

Kobe isn't the problem.

You can argue with statistics if they are close enough to fall in your favor...but his defensive numbers are nothing short of outstanding, so you guys are going to have to come up with something else, aside from just saying, "I see it. He sucks on defense."

Let me say it once again: the Lakers are 9th in the NBA in defense. They defend the three-point line better than 24 teams in the NBA. Dwight, Kobe, and Artest are the reasons for these defensive numbers.

So, if you're going to debate it, explain Kobe's numbers + the Lakers' defensive rankings.

Losses are contributed to turnovers, running an offense that requires a true PG (when we don't have one right now), a PF that's shooting 42% and is no better than Andrea Bargnani, and lack of communication on defense in spurts of the game (not the full 48). It's more obvious now than it has been in the past month.

#59 LakersChamps243

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Posted December 05, 2012 - 11:15 PM

It's common to agree with a popular decision when you're looking for answers.

Kobe isn't the problem.

You can argue with statistics if they are close enough to fall in your favor...but his defensive numbers are nothing short of outstanding, so you guys are going to have to come up with something else, aside from just saying, "I see it. He sucks on defense."

Let me say it once again: the Lakers are 9th in the NBA in defense. They defend the three-point line better than 24 teams in the NBA. Dwight, Kobe, and Artest are the reasons for these defensive numbers.

So, if you're going to debate it, explain Kobe's numbers + the Lakers' defensive rankings.

Losses are contributed to turnovers, running an offense that requires a true PG (when we don't have one right now), a PF that's shooting 42% and is no better than Andrea Bargnani, and lack of communication on defense in spurts of the game (not the full 48). It's more obvious now than it has been in the past month.

Amen. I must say that I'm surprised that Kobe has a better percentage than Tony Allen.

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#60 Real Deal

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Posted December 05, 2012 - 11:25 PM

Amen. I must say that I'm surprised that Kobe has a better percentage than Tony Allen.

I'd say that Tony Allen is the better on-ball defensive player, but Kobe has a higher defensive IQ.

Like I said, Howard will make everyone seem like they are playing better defense (stat-wise), especially players that are being attacked (our PG's and Gasol/Jamison), but Kobe was putting up similar defensive numbers last season as well...without DH12. Allen does benefit from having Marc Gasol behind him, although not as much as if he had Howard (a healthy Howard, most definitely), but the numbers would still be very close between Kobe and Allen if Howard was still in Orlando.




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