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What is the solution? Are the Lakers just a bad team?


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#161 DanishLakerFan

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Posted December 08, 2012 - 12:18 AM

Keep going lower on the totem pole until you find one. To be honest, Pau isn't worth a big name anymore.


Let's say Pau doesn't work out with Nash and Mitch decides to trade him. We don't really need a big name, but rather a small handfull of roleplayers who can fill out all of the holes.

#162 DanishLakerFan

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Posted December 08, 2012 - 12:20 AM

It's illogical to do so

If Dwight walks or even if he doesn't having paus 19 million dollar expiring is going to be very attractive

Trading pau for some bottom 10 starting SF is a franchise crippling move. Now maybe you convince boston that Jeff green and Avery Bradley is a good deal. But outside of that (and even thats not a great deal) there isn't much worth it

Trading hill on the other hand and getting that same bottom 10 starting SF. That makes sense. You keep your greatest asset while getting a similar player


Another point you should consider is Pau's salary next season. He will cost the Lakers at least 40 million in luxury tax.

#163 Japago

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Posted December 08, 2012 - 12:21 AM

It's illogical to do so

If Dwight walks or even if he doesn't having paus 19 million dollar expiring is going to be very attractive

Trading pau for some bottom 10 starting SF is a franchise crippling move. Now maybe you convince boston that Jeff green and Avery Bradley is a good deal. But outside of that (and even thats not a great deal) there isn't much worth it

Trading hill on the other hand and getting that same bottom 10 starting SF. That makes sense. You keep your greatest asset while getting a similar player


At this point, Pau hurts the team a lot more than he helps. Hill honestly is a bigger asset to the team. He can defend and makes the tough plays Pau isn't willing to do.

Based on rumors, there's still some value for Pau. Make a 3 way trade if necessary.

If Hill gets more value, then sure. They'll just have to wait until Jan 15, and I don't know if the Lakers can afford to wait until then.

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#164 last stand 2.0

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Posted December 08, 2012 - 12:22 AM

Another point you should consider is Pau's salary next season. He will cost the Lakers at least 40 million in luxury tax.


That would be solved by the point that hes a 20 million dollar expiring that will be traded. You can actually get something for an expiring that big


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#165 last stand 2.0

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Posted December 08, 2012 - 12:23 AM

At this point, Pau hurts the team a lot more than he helps. Hill honestly is a bigger asset to the team. He can defend and makes the tough plays Pau isn't willing to do.

Based on rumors, there's still some value for Pau. Make a 3 way trade if necessary.

If Hill gets more value, then sure. They'll just have to wait until Jan 15, and I don't know if the Lakers can afford to wait until then.


They are going to wait a while regardless. They aren't going to keep making changes. The only change worth making is signing delonte west to put morris permanently on the bench

Other than that they are going to wait it out. Paus expiring is too valuable to cough it up now for some average player who won't make much if any difference
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#166 Japago

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Posted December 08, 2012 - 12:25 AM

They are going to wait a while regardless. They aren't going to keep making changes. The only change worth making is signing delonte west to put morris permanently on the bench

Other than that they are going to wait it out. Paus expiring is too valuable to cough it up now for some average player who won't make much if any difference


Then that's their mistake. Pau and Metta are going to get dominated by opposing teams and this team should just put up a white flag for the season.

Expiring contracts aren't THAT valuable. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think any really good players have been traded for expiring contracts.

Edited by Japago, December 08, 2012 - 12:28 AM.

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#167 West Coast

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Posted December 08, 2012 - 12:29 AM

I get that but a team as loaded as this with 2 of the top 5 players in the NBA shouldnt be giving up over 100 a game and losing to garbage teams. It is completely unacceptable and pathetic.


Fans have to realize something, with this system we are more likely to give up 100 points during a game. The system stresses multiple possessions, which also means more possessions for the other team.

It's going to happen. That's the negative of the system.

OKC is the highest scoring team in the league. They have weapons everywhere. Coming into this game they had scored 100+ in ten straight.

It's really not a huge deal, the defending champs themselves are actually allowing 100 ppg.

What's killed us lately has been rebounding and second chance points. Our defense really hasn't been that bad. Fans just freak out if they see that we allowed 100 + points. But like I said, fans will have to get used to it, the more possessions we have means the same for our opponent. Just like if we slowed down the game and have fewer possessions, the same happens to the other team.



#168 last stand 2.0

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Posted December 08, 2012 - 12:38 AM

Then that's their mistake. Pau and Metta are going to get dominated by opposing teams and this team should just put up a white flag for the season.

Expiring contracts aren't THAT valuable. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think any really good players have been traded for expiring contracts.


Pau gasol was.

Really good players don't get traded often period. But what the lakers can do is get better value out of pau

It's easy to sell a 1 year deal that will shed 20 million off the cap,

And wasting that on like I said some bottom 10 starting sf doesn't make sense

If you can get dorell wright for Jordan hill you consider it. Or Trevor Ariza for Jordan hill

Those type of moves improve the roster. Isn't going to play when pau gets back. And hills only value is if pau is traded.
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#169 DanishLakerFan

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Posted December 08, 2012 - 12:43 AM

Pau gasol was.

Really good players don't get traded often period. But what the lakers can do is get better value out of pau

It's easy to sell a 1 year deal that will shed 20 million off the cap,

And wasting that on like I said some bottom 10 starting sf doesn't make sense

If you can get dorell wright for Jordan hill you consider it. Or Trevor Ariza for Jordan hill

Those type of moves improve the roster. Isn't going to play when pau gets back. And hills only value is if pau is traded.


Agree on these two guys. Then move Pau to the bench and find a 4th big, who can defend (say Kenyon Martin?) and we'll be set.

#170 West Coast

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Posted December 08, 2012 - 12:47 AM

Pau gasol was.

Really good players don't get traded often period. But what the lakers can do is get better value out of pau

It's easy to sell a 1 year deal that will shed 20 million off the cap,

And wasting that on like I said some bottom 10 starting sf doesn't make sense

If you can get dorell wright for Jordan hill you consider it. Or Trevor Ariza for Jordan hill

Those type of moves improve the roster. Isn't going to play when pau gets back. And hills only value is if pau is traded.


You bring up an interesting point about making moves that improve the roster.

What happens too many times, especially with our fan base, is that we are spoiled to the point where we think every move has to be for a star player. Example, lets trade Pau... What does everyone suggest? Josh Smith, Paul Millsap, etc.

Sometimes moves for 2-3 good role players goes a long way in making a team successful and has a greater impact than acquiring that big name player.

OKC is a great example of that type of team. You have Durant and Westbrook, two superstars. Then you have Ibaka, great defensive player. Martin, Maynor and Collison. You have Sefalosha in the starting lineup. That isn't a star filled roster, instead all guys that play hard and know their role

#171 Japago

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Posted December 08, 2012 - 12:51 AM

Pau gasol was.

Really good players don't get traded often period. But what the lakers can do is get better value out of pau

It's easy to sell a 1 year deal that will shed 20 million off the cap,

And wasting that on like I said some bottom 10 starting sf doesn't make sense

If you can get dorell wright for Jordan hill you consider it. Or Trevor Ariza for Jordan hill

Those type of moves improve the roster. Isn't going to play when pau gets back. And hills only value is if pau is traded.


I really doubt the Lakers are going to get much more out of Pau even when he does become an expiring contract. There's a reason why teams want to get rid of players in the first place. It's rare that a team wants to get rid of a good young player just because he's making a lot of money. Most of the contracts people want to get rid of are of older players, bad players, or both old and bad.

At this point Hill helps the team more than Gasol, Gasol probably still has more value all things considering, I doubt Gasol returns much more value next season, and the Lakers might not be able to afford to wait until Jan 15 to try to save their season. Because of all that, I think Gasol should be the one to go.

I think Gasol could return noticeable better value based off of rumors we've heard. Other teams would have probably have to include multiple players to make up Pau's salary anyway, so the Lakers could get multiple solid-good players even if they can't get that one great player.

Edited by Japago, December 08, 2012 - 12:57 AM.

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#172 last stand 2.0

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Posted December 08, 2012 - 01:07 AM

You bring up an interesting point about making moves that improve the roster.

What happens too many times, especially with our fan base, is that we are spoiled to the point where we think every move has to be for a star player. Example, lets trade Pau... What does everyone suggest? Josh Smith, Paul Millsap, etc.

Sometimes moves for 2-3 good role players goes a long way in making a team successful and has a greater impact than acquiring that big name player.

OKC is a great example of that type of team. You have Durant and Westbrook, two superstars. Then you have Ibaka, great defensive player. Martin, Maynor and Collison. You have Sefalosha in the starting lineup. That isn't a star filled roster, instead all guys that play hard and know their role


I mean that Kevin Martin, scola, and dragic deal sure looks enticing now doesn't it.

I'd love to get 3 legitimate role players who consistently contribute on a nightly basis

I'd send pau and Blake to detroit for stuckey, prince, and villanueva

Or

To Boston for Bradley and Jeff green and filler

But those are the only possibilities where we get multiple contributors that solve issues
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#173 211275

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Posted December 08, 2012 - 01:37 AM

Fans have to realize something, with this system we are more likely to give up 100 points during a game. The system stresses multiple possessions, which also means more possessions for the other team.

It's going to happen. That's the negative of the system.

OKC is the highest scoring team in the league. They have weapons everywhere. Coming into this game they had scored 100+ in ten straight.

It's really not a huge deal, the defending champs themselves are actually allowing 100 ppg.

What's killed us lately has been rebounding and second chance points. Our defense really hasn't been that bad. Fans just freak out if they see that we allowed 100 + points. But like I said, fans will have to get used to it, the more possessions we have means the same for our opponent. Just like if we slowed down the game and have fewer possessions, the same happens to the other team.



I am talking about giving up 100 and loses to bad teams like the Kings and Magic and also loses to the Pacers and Rockets. The Heat are 12-5 and have looked very good for the most part. The Lakers are 9-11 and have looked mostly awful. Big difference.

Edited by 211275, December 08, 2012 - 01:38 AM.


#174 Majesty

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Posted December 08, 2012 - 01:55 AM

You bring up an interesting point about making moves that improve the roster.

What happens too many times, especially with our fan base, is that we are spoiled to the point where we think every move has to be for a star player. Example, lets trade Pau... What does everyone suggest? Josh Smith, Paul Millsap, etc.

Sometimes moves for 2-3 good role players goes a long way in making a team successful and has a greater impact than acquiring that big name player.

OKC is a great example of that type of team. You have Durant and Westbrook, two superstars. Then you have Ibaka, great defensive player. Martin, Maynor and Collison. You have Sefalosha in the starting lineup. That isn't a star filled roster, instead all guys that play hard and know their role


So would you do this trade?

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=aghsgsa

keep in mind that after the 15th we can also throw Ebanks in to give to any of those teams as well. And players like Barea and Jerekbo are interchangeable between teams because money wise it could go either or. Our main additions would be that of Williams and Ariza, we could also net Barea in this deal if Jerekbo was dealt to Washington instead.

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#175 iDreamShake

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Posted December 08, 2012 - 02:16 AM

So would you do this trade?

http://espn.go.com/n...tradeId=aghsgsa

keep in mind that after the 15th we can also throw Ebanks in to give to any of those teams as well. And players like Barea and Jerekbo are interchangeable between teams because money wise it could go either or. Our main additions would be that of Williams and Ariza, we could also net Barea in this deal if Jerekbo was dealt to Washington instead.


HELL NO ,mannnnnnnnn. the 2nd unit needs players who can their own shots!!!! the players you listed are about as consistent as Jamison at creating their own shots,,,,,the 2nd unit will still struggle to score on most nights! honestly, if Williams was as good as michael beasley id consider it,,,michael fricking beasley!

Kobe and Randle led Lakers lead the team to a 32-50 record. the Lakers select Myles Turner with the 5th pick.


#176 Majesty

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Posted December 08, 2012 - 03:06 AM

HELL NO ,mannnnnnnnn. the 2nd unit needs players who can their own shots!!!! the players you listed are about as consistent as Jamison at creating their own shots,,,,,the 2nd unit will still struggle to score on most nights! honestly, if Williams was as good as michael beasley id consider it,,,michael fricking beasley!


So you're telling me you'd say no to adding Barea(that one aspect is changed to put him on our team which also financially works), Derrick Williams and Ariza to our bench while only giving up Pau, Earl Clark and Ebanks? Really?

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#177 iDreamShake

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Posted December 08, 2012 - 03:12 AM

So you're telling me you'd say no to adding Barea(that one aspect is changed to put him on our team which also financially works), Derrick Williams and Ariza to our bench while only giving up Pau, Earl Clark and Ebanks? Really?


yes id say no to barea being the best offensive player wed get back in a deal for pau. we need a marcus thorton to lead the bench, a jordan crawford, a wilson chandler, a michael beasley,, a jr smith, a lou williams, a danny granger .... one of these players plus a jj barea,,we cant trade for a group of wings who are basically as talented offesnively as MWP(williams and ariza) williams and ariza only get to the hole once MAYBE twice a game, and dont have consistent Js,theyre so inconsitent on offense, our 2nd unit needs offense, it needs a player or two who can create offense.

id much rather add calderon and klaza to the bench(bargs in the first unit). calderon might just be a top 15 pg, he can shoot,create off the dribble for himself or others, hes a complete offesnive player,,we need bench players like him. and klaza is also slightly better offensively than ariza and williams.

Edited by GMTradePau4aBench, December 08, 2012 - 03:17 AM.

Kobe and Randle led Lakers lead the team to a 32-50 record. the Lakers select Myles Turner with the 5th pick.


#178 DanishLakerFan

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Posted December 08, 2012 - 04:39 AM

So would you do this trade?

http://espn.go.com/n...tradeId=aghsgsa

keep in mind that after the 15th we can also throw Ebanks in to give to any of those teams as well. And players like Barea and Jerekbo are interchangeable between teams because money wise it could go either or. Our main additions would be that of Williams and Ariza, we could also net Barea in this deal if Jerekbo was dealt to Washington instead.


Not a bad trade at all.

#179 Japago

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Posted December 08, 2012 - 04:39 AM

I brought this idea up in the "Pau Gasol Trade Rumors/Discussion Thread" thread:

Lakers get:
Kawhi Leonard
Stephen Jackson
Matt Bonner

Spurs get:
Pau Gasol
Robert Sacre(filler so the Lakers would only have to waive one player)

Leonard is the young, athletic wing player the Lakers need. Matt Bonner is a big that can space the floor, something D'Antoni likes. Stephen Jackson adds depth at SF.

For the Spurs, Pau would be great along side Duncan if he can get back to form. The Spurs have been without Leonard and Jackson and have been doing just fine. They barely use Bonner.

Edited by Japago, December 08, 2012 - 04:42 AM.

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#180 Majesty

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Posted December 08, 2012 - 04:54 AM

yes id say no to barea being the best offensive player wed get back in a deal for pau. we need a marcus thorton to lead the bench, a jordan crawford, a wilson chandler, a michael beasley,, a jr smith, a lou williams, a danny granger .... one of these players plus a jj barea,,we cant trade for a group of wings who are basically as talented offesnively as MWP(williams and ariza) williams and ariza only get to the hole once MAYBE twice a game, and dont have consistent Js,theyre so inconsitent on offense, our 2nd unit needs offense, it needs a player or two who can create offense.

id much rather add calderon and klaza to the bench(bargs in the first unit). calderon might just be a top 15 pg, he can shoot,create off the dribble for himself or others, hes a complete offesnive player,,we need bench players like him. and klaza is also slightly better offensively than ariza and williams.


I completely disagree with you 100%

I think a bench unit of

Barea/Duhon
Jodie Meeks
Trevor Ariza
Derrick Williams
Jordan Hill

Would be absolutely amazing when paired with our starting lineup.

We'd also have the leftover three point shooting guards if we wanted to run small with Blake and Duhon as well. We'd be adding athleticism to our 4 spot with a guy that we can work with, and Ariza is back on the team asked to be a bench player rather than a starter and Jordan Hill getting his position for 5s as well as the scorer Barea can be. OFF OUR BENCH. As well as Meeks.


I'm sorry but I think getting that bench lineup for Gasol is GREAT!

Starting lineup

Steve Nash
Kobe Bryant
Metta World Peace
Antawn Jamison
Dwight Howard

Bench Unit
Barea/Blake/Duhon/Morris
Jodie Meeks
Trevor Ariza
Derrick Williams
Jordan Hill

I'm sorry but I think getting that bench unit at the expense of Gasol would be a very good deal on our part. Especially with Ariza being a bulldog on defense with our bench unit and the athleticism of Williams. Not to mention all of the players on our bench could/would benefit from D'antoni's system.

Would deepen our bench and fill in our holes therein. Ariza can be a scorer if he's asked to be and we aren't asking him to be a starter we're asking him to be a scorer on the bench which is putting less responsibility on him. Williams in general would be a great addition of some young TALENT that's actually talent. As well as rebounding.

I honestly think that's probably the best deal we should get for our bench. As the 3,4,5 of Ariza, Williams and Hill would help our bench defense tremendously and athleticism wise.

And Meeks being what he is and Barea with his ability to score, get to the lane and facilitate would be GREAT for our team.

barea in D'antoni's system would already do damage, add in a 3 point shooter like Meeks and our bench becomes very scary, add Ariza's defense WIlliams athleticism and Hill's hustle and we have a bench squad that not only can stretch leads but would run a much faster pace than our starters even would, and in D'antoni's world THAT would be perfect!

Trade would look like this

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=bgnao54

But we'd also be able to unload Ebanks too but TM won't let me do that yet.

Edited by Majesty, December 08, 2012 - 05:01 AM.

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