Jump to content




Photo

What is the solution? Are the Lakers just a bad team?


  • Please log in to reply
330 replies to this topic

#221 Majesty

Majesty

    Grats on making the Raiderettes cuzzo!!

  • 35,904 posts
  • Joined: Dec 11, 2011
  • Name:Jay
  • Fan Since:1987
  • Fav. Laker:Kobe present, Magic past

Posted December 10, 2012 - 02:51 AM

Excuses.

Injuries always have a role in things, and you have to factor them into the equation. The Heat's big 3 are younger and are less prone to injury. At this point, the Lakers need to make sure they can survive without Nash. He's 39 years old. It's likely to happen again.

Most of the Heat's players in 2010-2011 were new, so they all had to learn a new system. And they were able to at remain afloat even at their worst. The Lakers are 3 games under ,500 and have lost to terrible teams.

Cutting down on turnovers will help. But, the rest of the team is just too old to keep up with other teams with or without turnovers. Players always get past the initial defense, and the help defense is always needed because of that. Dwight is great, but he shouldn't need to help every time.

The Lakers are now 15th in defensive efficiency by the way. Without Howard, the Lakers would be much worse. When he has bad games, the Lakers are going to give up 110+ every time.

The Lakers would be so much better if the Lakers could at least defend initially some of the time. The Lakers' defense is all Dwight Howard right now. He's making the numbers look not as bad.



Since most of the fast break points scored against us are off turnovers I'd love to see how often a team REALLY took advantage of the fast break against us. Not that many I think. We cut back on turnovers and we start winning more game. That's pretty much it.

Is Wayne Brady gonna have to Djokovic? - Robert Flores 


#222 Japago

Japago

    Sixth Man

  • 4,039 posts
  • Joined: Aug 02, 2010
  • Name:Pat
  • Fav. Laker:Kobe

Posted December 10, 2012 - 02:56 AM

Since most of the fast break points scored against us are off turnovers I'd love to see how often a team REALLY took advantage of the fast break against us. Not that many I think. We cut back on turnovers and we start winning more game. That's pretty much it.


If the Lakers are able to defend without Howard's help some of the time, the Lakers are even better.

Posted Image


#223 Majesty

Majesty

    Grats on making the Raiderettes cuzzo!!

  • 35,904 posts
  • Joined: Dec 11, 2011
  • Name:Jay
  • Fan Since:1987
  • Fav. Laker:Kobe present, Magic past

Posted December 10, 2012 - 02:59 AM

If the Lakers are able to defend without Howard's help some of the time, the Lakers are even better.


The Lakers actually put up better defensive numbers when Kobe is on the floor than when Howard is on the floor believe it or not.

I linked the statistic somewhere but I don't want to go find it.

Like I said... turnovers are our issue above everything else.

Is Wayne Brady gonna have to Djokovic? - Robert Flores 


#224 Japago

Japago

    Sixth Man

  • 4,039 posts
  • Joined: Aug 02, 2010
  • Name:Pat
  • Fav. Laker:Kobe

Posted December 10, 2012 - 03:04 AM

The Lakers actually put up better defensive numbers when Kobe is on the floor than when Howard is on the floor believe it or not.

I linked the statistic somewhere but I don't want to go find it.

Like I said... turnovers are our issue above everything else.


He's not the on-the-ball defender though, Metta is.

Our old guys can't keep up. I think that's as clear as day when watching the games, and it's not just turnovers.

Again, it'll help. But, it's not the only problem.

Edited by Japago, December 10, 2012 - 03:06 AM.

Posted Image


#225 Majesty

Majesty

    Grats on making the Raiderettes cuzzo!!

  • 35,904 posts
  • Joined: Dec 11, 2011
  • Name:Jay
  • Fan Since:1987
  • Fav. Laker:Kobe present, Magic past

Posted December 10, 2012 - 03:28 AM

He's not the on-the-ball defender though, Metta is.

Our old guys can't keep up. I think that's as clear as day when watching the games, and it's not just turnovers.

Again, it'll help. But, it's not the only problem.


No but consider this.

We lose only by an average of 5 points a game. That's two extra possessions off of turnovers(if both are threes)

We near lead the league in turnovers and the points scored on us off turnovers. That basically means that theoretically, if we averaged 3 less turnovers a game we'd have won a majority of each loss we've had.

Now that's just theoretical stuff but at the same time I'm pretty sure Nash would decrease our turnover count by a lot more than just 3 per game. So I think we'll see a lot more wins with less turnovers.

Yes we'll still have issues to solve, but at least we won't be solving them while turnovers are costing us the game at the same time. If you get what I mean.

Is Wayne Brady gonna have to Djokovic? - Robert Flores 


#226 Lakers4Life

Lakers4Life

    Bleeds Purple & Gold

  • 3,269 posts
  • Joined: Nov 18, 2009
  • Fan Since:1999
  • Fav. Laker:Kobe Bryant

Posted December 10, 2012 - 03:29 AM

honestly we've had really bad luck,even with the bad cards we've been dealt. we should be .500 right now :( i know for a fact once mid january comes we'll start streaking as the hottest team,,,i just pray we dont dig oursleves such a deep hole that we cant get a top 3 seed in the conference.. you know what tho, in the west, youre gunna have a tuff matchup every round, and when our team is at 100% health ,im not scarred of any team in the league, for real.


Home-court advantage is so important.
Laker fan for life.

#227 Japago

Japago

    Sixth Man

  • 4,039 posts
  • Joined: Aug 02, 2010
  • Name:Pat
  • Fav. Laker:Kobe

Posted December 10, 2012 - 03:34 AM

No but consider this.

We lose only by an average of 5 points a game. That's two extra possessions off of turnovers(if both are threes)

We near lead the league in turnovers and the points scored on us off turnovers. That basically means that theoretically, if we averaged 3 less turnovers a game we'd have won a majority of each loss we've had.

Now that's just theoretical stuff but at the same time I'm pretty sure Nash would decrease our turnover count by a lot more than just 3 per game. So I think we'll see a lot more wins with less turnovers.

Yes we'll still have issues to solve, but at least we won't be solving them while turnovers are costing us the game at the same time. If you get what I mean.


Yes. As long as you understand it's not the only problem. The Lakers aren't going to turn into a championship caliber team just by cutting down on turnovers. I think they can get back to being a playoff team just by doing that.

The Lakers will need improved overall defense from everyone else to put them back into that conversation.

Posted Image


#228 iDreamShake

iDreamShake

    Off The Bench

  • 1,990 posts
  • Joined: Sep 28, 2012
  • Fan Since:1998
  • Fav. Laker:#8

Posted December 10, 2012 - 03:59 AM

Home-court advantage is so important.


especially going against OKC,BUT , the players play the game, not the crowd, and im confident we will have the better team,,,i think Dwight makes us a mismatch for any team. we will dominate the boards, and 100% dwight will lower Westbrook and durants fg%

Kobe and Randle led Lakers lead the team to a 32-50 record. the Lakers select Myles Turner with the 5th pick.


#229 Windu

Windu

    Shatterpoint

  • 43,001 posts
  • Joined: Apr 24, 2009
  • Name:Will
  • Fan Since:1999
  • Fav. Laker:Kobe

Posted December 10, 2012 - 06:46 AM

We cut back on turnovers and we start winning more game. That's pretty much it.


It's much more complicated than simply reducing turnovers.

Mike D'Antoni
Defense (related to D'Antoni)
Pau Gasol (when he's playing)

Pau Gasol is GONE


#230 noknife

noknife

    Sixth Man

  • 3,183 posts
  • Joined: May 21, 2009
  • Fan Since:1978
  • Fav. Laker:Shaquille Oneal/Kobe Bryant

Posted December 10, 2012 - 07:22 AM

Mike D'antoni is not why the Lakers are losing. They are putting up offensive numbers that are more than enough to win any NBA game. They just also happen to be turning the ball over and playing only so so half court defense. I'm sure in the huddle he is telling the guys to make sure to turn the ball over and not play good D. :)

#231 Windu

Windu

    Shatterpoint

  • 43,001 posts
  • Joined: Apr 24, 2009
  • Name:Will
  • Fan Since:1999
  • Fav. Laker:Kobe

Posted December 10, 2012 - 09:28 AM

Yes he is.

EVERYONE has to take blame for this team's struggles. Front office, coaches, and players.

We tried getting it done with a coach who's offensively-challenged and now we're trying to get it done with a coach who's defensively-challenged.

Mike D'Antoni is about offense...fast offense. He doesn't care about defense; he believes he can simply out score teams. It was that way with Phoenix, it was that way with NY, and it's the same here in LA.

Pau Gasol is GONE


#232 211275

211275

    Rookie

  • 189 posts
  • Joined: May 22, 2012

Posted December 10, 2012 - 01:54 PM

Home-court advantage is so important.


Lakers just got dominated at home and got 117 put on them by a garbage team thats 3-9 on the road, guess not.

#233 GCMD

GCMD

    All-Star

  • 6,749 posts
  • Joined: Jul 25, 2008
  • Fav. Laker:Magic Johnson

Posted December 10, 2012 - 02:08 PM

Can't run a point guard driven offense without the point guard.

Kobe kills this offense by stopping the ball. The ball has to keep moving and players have to move around it.

If Kobe's not initiating the offense, he's useless right now. Sure, he can score off Kobe ball but can the team win with Kobe ball?

As for defense, lack of preparation and commitment to that end. When your star doesn't play with energy on that end, it's hard to convince everyone else to.

#234 Real Deal

Real Deal

    Legend

  • 14,860 posts
  • Joined: Jun 29, 2008
  • Location:Kansas
  • Name:Brandon
  • Fav. Laker:Kobe

Posted December 10, 2012 - 02:24 PM

Can't run a point guard driven offense without the point guard.

Kobe kills this offense by stopping the ball. The ball has to keep moving and players have to move around it.

If Kobe's not initiating the offense, he's useless right now. Sure, he can score off Kobe ball but can the team win with Kobe ball?

As for defense, lack of preparation and commitment to that end. When your star doesn't play with energy on that end, it's hard to convince everyone else to.

You're basically blaming it all on Kobe again, and I really don't care to dig that convo up...but I have a serious question when it comes to your last sentence.

Were Shawn Marion and Raja Bell very good defensive players in Phoenix?

#235 noknife

noknife

    Sixth Man

  • 3,183 posts
  • Joined: May 21, 2009
  • Fan Since:1978
  • Fav. Laker:Shaquille Oneal/Kobe Bryant

Posted December 10, 2012 - 06:50 PM

Yes he is.

EVERYONE has to take blame for this team's struggles. Front office, coaches, and players.

We tried getting it done with a coach who's offensively-challenged and now we're trying to get it done with a coach who's defensively-challenged.

Mike D'Antoni is about offense...fast offense. He doesn't care about defense; he believes he can simply out score teams. It was that way with Phoenix, it was that way with NY, and it's the same here in LA.


I think the front office has done plenty to satisfy the fan base. It just hasn't worked out. I would blame the players first by a long long way.

#236 Cj2008nw

Cj2008nw

    Sixth Man

  • 3,115 posts
  • Joined: Dec 26, 2011
  • Fan Since:1999
  • Fav. Laker:Kobe Bryant

Posted December 10, 2012 - 07:14 PM

I can't believe the Warriors have a much better record than us... and they don't even have Brandon Rush

#237 GCMD

GCMD

    All-Star

  • 6,749 posts
  • Joined: Jul 25, 2008
  • Fav. Laker:Magic Johnson

Posted December 10, 2012 - 08:02 PM

You're basically blaming it all on Kobe again, and I really don't care to dig that convo up...but I have a serious question when it comes to your last sentence.

Were Shawn Marion and Raja Bell very good defensive players in Phoenix?


Agree to disagree.

Kobe isn't all of the problem...but he could be the solution. He's our best playmaker with Nash out and he refuses to accept that role...

As far as the defense, Dwight is the leader. All they have to do is follow his lead. Pau played like crap defensively and it showed. Kobe plays like crap defensively and it shows...the problem is he's not taking responsibility for it and he bristles any time someone calls him out for it.

He needs to be held accountable...Phil held him accountable, Fish held him accountable...on this team? He's a runaway train.

Is he the problem? NO...we have major flaws on both ends of the court as far as talent and chemistry. Even if Kobe played flawless defense, it wouldn't solve all of our problems.

Could he be the solution? YES...but he's stuck in his ways and he wants to force the issue, ramming a square peg in a round hole.


I'm "fan" enough to admit that. Kobe has enough talent around him to succeed easily. The fact that he's not getting it done says more about HIM than it does the offense, defense or coach.


But, once again, you'll just have to wait and see.

Edited by GCMD, December 10, 2012 - 08:03 PM.


#238 Real Deal

Real Deal

    Legend

  • 14,860 posts
  • Joined: Jun 29, 2008
  • Location:Kansas
  • Name:Brandon
  • Fav. Laker:Kobe

Posted December 10, 2012 - 08:23 PM

Like I said, I'm not going to dive back into all of that. Already been there. I asked a question about your last sentence.

When your star doesn't play with energy on that end, it's hard to convince everyone else to.


Were Shawn Marion and Raja Bell very good defensive players in Phoenix?

Just a yes or no will suffice.

#239 GCMD

GCMD

    All-Star

  • 6,749 posts
  • Joined: Jul 25, 2008
  • Fav. Laker:Magic Johnson

Posted December 11, 2012 - 01:00 PM

Like I said, I'm not going to dive back into all of that. Already been there. I asked a question about your last sentence.




Just a yes or no will suffice.


Your question isn't really a question. It's not even relevant.

I said it's hard to convince people when the star doesn't play with energy. I didn't say that people won't play defense if the star doesn't.

And no, I'm not going to engage in an argument that has nothing to do with my original point.

Agree to disagree.

#240 Real Deal

Real Deal

    Legend

  • 14,860 posts
  • Joined: Jun 29, 2008
  • Location:Kansas
  • Name:Brandon
  • Fav. Laker:Kobe

Posted December 11, 2012 - 01:14 PM

Energy...on that end of the court.

The answer is yes, by the way...and they were excellent defenders, even though Steve Nash (their superstar) was horrible, and rarely cared to play it, looking to rely on those two + Amare (who was a shot-blocker, despite being a bad on-ball defender) and later on, Gortat, to cover his ass.

But, that's fine. It's whatever.

Good defensive players don't need their superstar to play defense. Dirk and the Dallas Mavericks helped us see this in 2011. Nash and the Phoenix Suns were able to win 60+ games with two excellent defensive players NOT named Steve Nash (who was arguably the worst defender on those teams).

The fact is, we don't have the youth, or the amount of defenders, to be THAT team. Nash, Gasol, Jamison...three big contributors, three incredibly bad defensive players. Meeks, Blake, Morris, Duhon, Ebanks...five bench players, five average-to-bad defenders against other second-unit players (let alone starter-level, where these five stand no chance).

I didn't come in here to debate anything. Sometimes, there's nothing to debate. I just wanted the answer to that particular question, that's all.




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users