108 replies to this topic

[Majesty]

Why are you deflecting?
I asked, and you said Bynum. I don't disagree with that (even though Bynum is younger that Pau...) But playing through injury has it's effects, yet you don't want to agree with that, just as long as everything that Pau does is bad.

Playing through injuries has it's effects yeah. But knee tendonitis is never going to go away and near every nba player that has played for an extended period of time is dealing with knee problems.

If your logic is that as long as Pau has knee tendonitis he shouldn't play then Pau should sit out the rest of the season cause it's never gonna go away.

If your logic is that it should be on the severity then ask that question.

Don't ask a black and white question "Do you think someone that's injured should play?"

My answer to that is that it depends on the severity of the injury. Pau will always have it, how much it bothers him and whether he'll play through it is up to him. It depends on the severity of it. But since it hasn't stopped him from rotating when he decides to play with effort I wonder how terrible it is.

I also wonder why it wears off when he plays in the Olympics. And I also wonder why he had such uninspired play for the last 3 years, so I'm not going to blame it all on the knee tendonitis.

He was playing terribly before he even got this, thus my conclusion is that the knee tendonitis plays only a small role in the problems with Pau.

Even if his knee tendonitis heals to about 95% or so, he still isn't going to put up 17/10 because every other issue is still there.

But to answer your question on whether players should play with injuries, I say that it depends on the severity. Playing with injuries has it's consequences, playing with NO injuries has it's consequences so don't try to make it in such black and white terms that can easily be spun in the opposite direction and make just as much sense.

I'm also not going to simplify things down to "playing injured has it's consequences therefore Pau shouldn't play as long as he's injured."

By that simplified logic Pau should sit the entire season since knee tendonitis doesn't ever go away. You're ok with that then? How about retirement? Because there's consequences for playing injured and Pau is never going to be 100% so why even play basketball anymore? By your simplified logic he should do exactly that correct?

Edited by Majesty, December 08, 2012 - 05:42 AM.

[netlord]

Playing through injuries has it's effects yeah. But knee tendonitis is never going to go away and near every nba player that has played for an extended period of time is dealing with knee problems.

If your logic is that as long as Pau has knee tendonitis he shouldn't play then Pau should sit out the rest of the season cause it's never gonna go away.

If your logic is that it should be on the severity then ask that question.

Don't ask a black and white question "Do you think someone that's injured should play?"

My answer to that is that it depends on the severity of the injury. Pau will always have it, how much it bothers him and whether he'll play through it is up to him. It depends on the severity of it. But since it hasn't stopped him from rotating when he decides to play with effort I wonder how terrible it is.

I also wonder why it wears off when he plays in the Olympics. And I also wonder why he had such uninspired play for the last 3 years, so I'm not going to blame it all on the knee tendonitis.

He was playing terribly before he even got this, thus my conclusion is that the knee tendonitis plays only a small role in the problems with Pau.

Even if his knee tendonitis heals to about 95% or so, he still isn't going to put up 17/10 because every other issue is still there.

But to answer your question on whether players should play with injuries, I say that it depends on the severity. Playing with injuries has it's consequences, playing with NO injuries has it's consequences so don't try to make it in such black and white terms that can easily be spun in the opposite direction and make just as much sense.

I'm also not going to simplify things down to "playing injured has it's consequences therefore Pau shouldn't play as long as he's injured."

By that simplified logic Pau should sit the entire season since knee tendonitis doesn't ever go away. You're ok with that then? How about retirement? Because there's consequences for playing injured and Pau is never going to be 100% so why even play basketball anymore? By your simplified logic he should do exactly that correct?

Have i said that he is going to put up 17/10 when he is healthy? I beleive his knee problems are in a big part due to Mike Brown's training routines. I do beleive his knees are taking a toll this season on a mental level (apart from all the other problems)
Pau does not have the physical capabilities other players have, if you add injury to that you don't get good results. I also beleive he cannot work with Mike D'Antoni's system. I have to see what happens when Nash returns, but I still have my doubts.
I also agree that in the last 2 years his play has gone down and has had really really terrible performances. But Pau has become the scapegoat for this team, no matter what happens, and I have to keep hearing nonsense day in and day out, but of course, you guys are always right.

[iDreamShake]

Have i said that he is going to put up 17/10 when he is healthy? I beleive his knee problems are in a big part due to Mike Brown's training routines. I do beleive his knees are taking a toll this season on a mental level (apart from all the other problems)
Pau does not have the physical capabilities other players have, if you add injury to that you don't get good results. I also beleive he cannot work with Mike D'Antoni's system. I have to see what happens when Nash returns, but I still have my doubts.
I also agree that in the last 2 years his play has gone down and has had really really terrible performances. But Pau has become the scapegoat for this team, no matter what happens, and I have to keep hearing nonsense day in and day out, but of course, you guys are always right.

some of us dont want to trade Pau because we're scapegoating him,tho,you know that.. some of us just want to trade him because he doesnt really fit here,and we can trade him for talented players who do fit. i dont think Pau is a problem/hurting our team!, it is a problem that we have the wrong personell on our team tho.. our bench will eventually be our ONLY problem(once dh12 and nash are healthy),,,its a big problem too,,,it needs to be fixed, and Pau doesnt need to be a laker,we all have come to grips with that reality,,so lets trade pau for a bench

[Majesty]

Have i said that he is going to put up 17/10 when he is healthy? I beleive his knee problems are in a big part due to Mike Brown's training routines. I do beleive his knees are taking a toll this season on a mental level (apart from all the other problems)
Pau does not have the physical capabilities other players have, if you add injury to that you don't get good results. I also beleive he cannot work with Mike D'Antoni's system. I have to see what happens when Nash returns, but I still have my doubts.
I also agree that in the last 2 years his play has gone down and has had really really terrible performances. But Pau has become the scapegoat for this team, no matter what happens, and I have to keep hearing nonsense day in and day out, but of course, you guys are always right.

The reason that Pau is a "scapegoat" is because his game has declined the most and in the most dramatic way.

It's never for a bad reason. Would you seriously NOT criticize a player that went from 17-10 in the regular season to 12-9 in the playoffs? Two straight years in a row.

So people aren't "picking on Pau" for no reason. it's actually a very big and legitimate reason.

And then this year he's "starting" the season going 12-8

Everyone else on this team has increased their game and is playing better and his has severely declined.

And the bulk of the criticism has to do with the fact that he played lights out in the Olympics and praised himself saying he was "a beast" now.

And then somehow in that short period of time he came into training camp out of shape and has put up career lows this year and is shooting 10% less.

Now if any other player had done this, would you defend them? If Bynum played in the Olympics, called himself a beast and looked awesome and then somehow came into training camp out of shape and started putting up career lows for us everyone on this forum would be jumping on him, saying how unprofessional and immature he is, and there'd probably be a lot of trade threads.


Pau does not escape this.


Do we not all realize that we are SATISFIED when someone that has such an important role on our team as him actually MANAGES to get 12 and 10? For all we tout him or talk about how skilled he is we are SATISFIED when he even manages to get to 12-10 anymore because we consider that a "good" performance by him now...

THAT is a problem.

[True Lakers Fan]

Mark Medina ‏@MedinaLakersNBA
Pau Gasol is penciled out for tonight against Utah. Still considered day to day regarding tendinitis in both of his knees

[GCMD]

Looks like he's on the shelf until Nash returns. He'll be on a very short leash. Ready to move him.

Not going to worry about him...we can win it all without him....don't know why people are obsessing over him or who will be replacing him (in trade).

[netlord]

Looks like he's on the shelf until Nash returns. He'll be on a very short leash. Ready to move him.

Not going to worry about him...we can win it all without him....don't know why people are obsessing over him or who will be replacing him (in trade).

I do not beleive we can win it all, with or without him.

[Windu]

that's because we hired the wrong coach...

again

[Majesty]

Anonymous opponent of the Lakers feels Gasol is the problem with the team, calling him out for his bad play and lack of aggressiveness.

"Kobe and Pau are the Lakers' best two post players. Kobe's probably the best post player in the league. But when we played them, Pau wasn't in the post much. And the few times he was, we ended up in single coverage on him and he didn't really do much. Honestly, there's not one guy on our team who should be able to defend him, but we were able to stop him.

Edited by Majesty, December 10, 2012 - 04:58 PM.

[ap1_alan]

Anonymous opponent of the Lakers feels Gasol is the problem with the team, calling him out for his bad play and lack of aggressiveness.

the rest of that quote:
"I think he'll be fine if they make him feel a part of it. But right now he just doesn't look confident and comfortable to me, which you can understand."
http://espn.go.com/los-angeles/nba/story/_/id/8732931/the-los-angeles-lakers-pau-gasol-looking-right-fit

Doesn't look like he's blaming Pau, but more of the system for not getting him involved in the right positions.

[Majesty]

the rest of that quote:
"I think he'll be fine if they make him feel a part of it. But right now he just doesn't look confident and comfortable to me, which you can understand."
http://espn.go.com/l...oking-right-fit

Doesn't look like he's blaming Pau, but more of the system for not getting him involved in the right positions.

Thats why I had excerpts.


Thanks for full quote.

Anyway the most important aspect of criticism lately seems to be that even when he is in the post he doesn't do much with it.

Actually within the post his percentages are almost just as bad as his jump shots. And he's actually shooting a worse percentage on the block and in the post than he is with his jump shots. To me that's pretty scary. Everyone that says we aren't finding the right spots for him when we look at the numbers realize he's shooting worse from the "spots" he's best at than he is at the wide open jumpers.

Scary thing to be honest. I think Jordan Hill as it stands will do more than Gasol for us in the short and long term, and if Duhon can keep playing high screen and rolls with Hill and Hill can also keep knocking down wide open mid range jumpers while being a better defender than Pau's days here truly are numbered. Unless when Steve comes back he turns this around for him(by that I mean Gasol being a 17/10 guy again) then Gasol will be gone because if him and Hill remain "even" Mitch will probably send Gasol away to deepen the bench a little bit more. And honestly when it comes to Hill, I really don't see anything Gasol has done(this year) more efficiently than what Hill does when he gets the minutes. All I see is that Hill is a better defender and switches screen and rolls better and has better help defense and aside from Artest Kobe and Dwight is the Laker who consistently will "show up" No matter what.

So in the end, I don't think even Nash saves Gasol. But we'll see. He's scouted for his weakness at defending this year so if it proves too costly I see Gasol going. Even with Nash cutting down our turnovers if Gasol remains a defensive liability that a team can forever exploit he has to go or we're gonna get taken to the cleaners in the playoffs by any team running that same play over and over again in some way shape or form towards Gasol.

Edited by Majesty, December 10, 2012 - 05:22 PM.

[manaro90]

Read this.

http://espn.go.com/l...oking-right-fit

[True Lakers Fan]

Mike Bresnahan ‏@Mike_Bresnahan
Pau Gasol not taking part in this morning's shoot-around (tendinitis, knees). Looks like he'll miss tonight's Lakers game vs. CLE.

looks like big guy is out tonight

[True Lakers Fan]

AND he is out

Mike Bresnahan ‏@Mike_Bresnahan
Pau Gasol not taking part in this morning's shoot-around (tendinitis, knees). Looks like he'll miss tonight's Lakers game vs. CLE.

[manaro90]

.................

[netlord]

.................

Lol
do you think he is going somewhere?...

[West Coast]

RT @forumbluegold: RT @LakersReporter: Mike D'Antoni says @paugasol will start tonight. He responded well to practice yesterday. LAL were 3-5 w/out Gasol.

[Saber]

[True Lakers Fan]

Let's see what he can do now

I am happy to return to the starting lineup with my teammates to fight for a win! My knees are feeling good and explosive!#FuturePauTweets

[-Wade-]

My knees are feeling good and explosive!

From his mouth directly. No excuses. I'm rooting for you Pau!