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What's Wrong With Dwight?


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#221 iDreamShake

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Posted November 25, 2012 - 02:36 AM

The answer your question about the Heat, the answer is no. I didn't think they could possibly win the title after starting 9 and 9. How is that relevant to the Lakers? Is it your theory that because they did it, then we can?


i think we are more likely to succeed after a poor start than the Heat were. the heat had 3 players that year, thats it,,,the other two players on the court for them did nothing. us on the other hand, once we get dwight back we'll dominate the boards, nash will thrive in this offense, Jamison will contibute at the 4... we have more than 3 players, and we will dominate the boards.. i like our chances to win it all . this current team isnt our team ,people! . once dwights healthy , THAT will be our team.!!!!

Kobe and Randle led Lakers lead the team to a 32-50 record. the Lakers select Myles Turner with the 5th pick.


#222 Real Deal

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Posted November 25, 2012 - 02:41 AM

The answer your question about the Heat, the answer is no. I didn't think they could possibly win the title after starting 9 and 9. How is that relevant to the Lakers? Is it your theory that because they did it, then we can?

My way of thinking, when it comes to your claim that Dwight Howard is an average center because of our 7-7 record, is this:

1) You didn't think the Heat could win it all after going 9-9, so you should know better than to assume Dwight isn't effective enough for us as we sit at 7-7.

2) I asked for centers that are better than Dwight. You didn't give me any. Being an average center, there should be around...oh, maybe five...that are better (and that's being generous). If you can't give me five centers that are better, that hurts your argument even more.

3) Your initial post in this topic said he wasn't playing good defense this year. Is Duncan, Chandler, LeBron, or Garnett? Dwight has some of the best defensive numbers in the league (in frontcourts, ruling out guards because they play differently and are less efficient). So, you were wrong there...facts are facts.

4) The Lakers' defensive rating is the best it has been since 2004. Go look it up. It's at 103.3, points per 100 possessions.

5) The Lakers' offensive rating is actually 6th in the league, and we are 4th in FG%, 4th in assists, 3rd in PPG, 5th in FT's and 1st in FTA's. A lot of that falls on Howard's shoulders.

You pointed to free throws, and you were a heavy-hitter when it came to comparing Howard and Drew, and the free throws they shot...yet, again, Howard's least amount made (which matters most) is more than Drew's career high in a season.

You're simply just talking at this point. You're looking at a 7-7 record and judging one player. Is Kobe an average two-guard this season? You do realize he's putting up career numbers, and he's actually the leader of this team (it would take LeBron to come in and remove him from that chair, and that would be a struggle)...so does the 7-7 record make him an average player?

You aren't saying much. I'm asking you to talk more, but say something worth posting. So far, there isn't anything there, and that's how trolls are born. It's not about you agreeing or disagreeing, it's about you turning this topic into 8-9+ extra pages based on absolutely nothing.

#223 androsays

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Posted November 25, 2012 - 02:45 AM

i don't want you near me or my shorts.

2div

#224 lakerfandude

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Posted November 25, 2012 - 02:49 AM

My way of thinking, when it comes to your claim that Dwight Howard is an average center because of our 7-7 record, is this:

1) You didn't think the Heat could win it all after going 9-9, so you should know better than to assume Dwight isn't effective enough for us as we sit at 7-7.

2) I asked for centers that are better than Dwight. You didn't give me any. Being an average center, there should be around...oh, maybe five...that are better (and that's being generous). If you can't give me five centers that are better, that hurts your argument even more.

3) Your initial post in this topic said he wasn't playing good defense this year. Is Duncan, Chandler, LeBron, or Garnett? Dwight has some of the best defensive numbers in the league (in frontcourts, ruling out guards because they play differently and are less efficient). So, you were wrong there...facts are facts.

4) The Lakers' defensive rating is the best it has been since 2004. Go look it up. It's at 103.3, points per 100 possessions.

5) The Lakers' offensive rating is actually 6th in the league, and we are 4th in FG%, 4th in assists, 3rd in PPG, 5th in FT's and 1st in FTA's. A lot of that falls on Howard's shoulders.

You pointed to free throws, and you were a heavy-hitter when it came to comparing Howard and Drew, and the free throws they shot...yet, again, Howard's least amount made (which matters most) is more than Drew's career high in a season.

You're simply just talking at this point. You're looking at a 7-7 record and judging one player. Is Kobe an average two-guard this season? You do realize he's putting up career numbers, and he's actually the leader of this team (it would take LeBron to come in and remove him from that chair, and that would be a struggle)...so does the 7-7 record make him an average player?

You aren't saying much. I'm asking you to talk more, but say something worth posting. So far, there isn't anything there, and that's how trolls are born. It's not about you agreeing or disagreeing, it's about you turning this topic into 8-9+ extra pages based on absolutely nothing.



The average center quote I made is in the context that any average center could help us to a 7 and 7 record. He is not playing above average. I feel a center like Asik from the Rockets could have lead us to the same record we have now, or Gasol from the Grizzlies. How about Brooks from the Nets. He couldn't have helped us to a 7 and 7 record?

#225 lakerfandude

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Posted November 25, 2012 - 02:53 AM

i don't want you near me or my shorts.


I don't think you have anything to worry with that bet, lol....

#226 androsays

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Posted November 25, 2012 - 02:58 AM

you're not taking into account all the other factors that play into our 7-7 record.

2 new coaches, 2 new offensive schemes. the issue of chemistry between players. if we had a player like Asik, i would bet a large sum of money that we would be below .500 at this point.

Brook Lopez is the same exact player as Gasol except he doesn't rebound. He's a defensive liability, un-athletic, prefers a face-up midrange game. We wouldn't go anywhere with him at the 5.

2div

#227 lakerfandude

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Posted November 25, 2012 - 03:01 AM

you're not taking into account all the other factors that play into our 7-7 record.

2 new coaches, 2 new offensive schemes. the issue of chemistry between players. if we had a player like Asik, i would bet a large sum of money that we would be below .500 at this point.

Brook Lopez is the same exact player as Gasol except he doesn't rebound. He's a defensive liability, un-athletic, prefers a face-up midrange game. We wouldn't go anywhere with him at the 5.


Yeah, you think so? You may be right. I like your points...

Edited by lakerfandude, November 25, 2012 - 03:02 AM.


#228 Real Deal

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Posted November 25, 2012 - 03:05 AM

The average center quote I made is in the context that any average center could help us to a 7 and 7 record. He is not playing above average. I feel a center like Asik from the Rockets could have lead us to the same record we have now, or Gasol from the Grizzlies. How about Brooks from the Nets. He couldn't have helped us to a 7 and 7 record?

Asik is a rebounder, not a defender...and he's shooting around 44%. Brook Lopez can't defend and can't grab a rebound to save his life, also a bad passer. Both of those guys are out of the question.

Marc Gasol seems arguable because you see how the Grizzlies are playing, but he's not a scorer...so our scoring would dip pretty bad. He's shooting around 50% from the floor, 10% less than Dwight, makes less free throws than Dwight (and doesn't even come close to getting to the line as much, which puts teams into the penalty quicker), and he's pulling down about seven boards a night.

So, Marc Gasol isn't the defender Dwight is (by the numbers), he's hardly the offensive player (really, not even close), and Dwight gets to the line twice as much.

What makes you think there's any other center in the league that would actually make us better? If you can prove to me that there's a better center out there, go for it...but there isn't one.

What is killing LA right now? We don't hit our threes, one of the worst teams in the NBA at it (25th), and we turn the ball over (Kobe and Dwight do it, Kobe a bit more...and that's due to the new offense). I'm not blaming Kobe OR Dwight for the turnovers, because half of them aren't their faults...bad player rotations, not in spots, etc.

LA has lost games because of those two things, and this particular offense AND the Princeton (so, all we have ran so far) require that we minimize turnovers and have the floor spread.

Kobe and Dwight are doing their jobs. Statistically, it's there. Visually, it's there. But, the offense is a wreck because we don't have Nash (and are starting a backup PG that isn't sure what to do each game), we think Gasol is transforming into the Dallas Lamar Odom, and Jamison is finally getting in good games after having about 10-11 bad ones.

That's what happened with the Heat in 2010, with no offense installed (simple ISO's), and they were pretty bad. They learned how to play together, finally had shooters stepping up, and it clicked and turned them into a team that executed an efficient and effective offense, while being one of the better defensive teams in the NBA.

Dwight isn't a problem. There's really nothing wrong with him, other than him not being able to elevate as much as he used to (although, that has improved significantly over the last two weeks...big time). The problem is fitting him and Kobe into this offense, all while trying to figure out how the hell we can spoon-feed everyone else (now including Gasol) who can't do anything on their own, as we await Nash's return.

#229 androsays

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Posted November 25, 2012 - 03:10 AM

this is not me saying i want Marc Gasol on this team over DH, but one positive would possibly be Pau stepping it up.

somebody mentioned it in another topic somewhere, but when Pau plays for Spain, he's a completely different player. Having Marc might have that effect.


all this talk about offensive schemes, 3pt fg%, and spacing has me even more excited for Nash to get back!!!!!!!!!!

2div

#230 Real Deal

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Posted November 25, 2012 - 03:25 AM

I answered your question, now you answer mine. Is having Dwight Howard seriously so much better than having a healthy Bynum as we did last year? You have to go with the fact that we didn't know Drew wouldn't be playing this year. If Drew was the same healthy dude as last year, would we have any worse a record this year as we do now if he was still here? Is Dwight as much as an upgrade as all have said, that being if Bynum was healthy this year. Be honest dude...

That's hard to answer, so let me break it into two parts.

1) If we kept Mike Brown, and had a healthy Drew, and brought in Nash...we'd likely be better than 7-7, BUT not better at the end of the season. That's assuming Nash still gets hurt. Kobe, Gasol, Bynum, Ron and Morris would still run through a similar offense we did last season, and we wouldn't spend time learning it.

2) If we ditched Brown, brought in D'Antoni, and had a healthy Drew and an injured Nash, then no, because D'Antoni isn't very fond of big men taking up space in the low post, and Bynum can't run the floor like Dwight can.

At the end of the season, the Kobe/Bynum/Gasol trio doesn't contend. We lose just like we did for two years. Add Nash, and we still don't beat the Thunder OR Spurs...may get to the WCF, but we can't beat two P&R-heavy contenders with Drew as our defensive anchor + Nash as our horrible defender at the point. It would be the same result.

At the end of this season, the Kobe/Howard/Gasol trio can contend, because we have two extra things: a center that we can play through + get our shots through (as he has done for years in Orlando), and we have a big man that can come out on P&R's and lessen the negative effect of our lack of defense at the point (whether it was Fisher, Blake, Sessions, Morris, Nash, Goudelock, whoever).

Add Nash to that trio, and then D'Antoni, and you're taking four starters (minus Nash) that have to learn an offense they have never played in before, and when your other starter (Nash) is injured, and his replacement isn't a true uptempo facilitating PG, you don't have much to work with at this point.

But, once the offense is learned, if Nash is okay with running a bit less and letting both Kobe and Dwight play as superstars (and not as role players in a Phoenix system), we will contend. We have the best defensive big man, and one that can put teams in the penalty within 6-8 minutes sometimes...and a guy we can rely on as a primary option AND a shot-creator, when Kobe isn't shooting the ball well OR Nash is struggling getting past someone like Rondo.

Bynum is a traditional back-to-the-basket low post player, also, so with him camping down low, Kobe takes more jumpers. Bryant has played with two big men like that (Shaq and Drew), and it keeps him out of the paint a bit more. With Howard being able to step out and face his man up, taking them off the dribble, and Nash and Dwight operating P&R as easily the best duo in the NBA (if both were 100% right now, since both were the best P&R players at their positions), that's a free lane, and easy one-on-one match-ups, for Kobe. Gasol should be taking advantage of it as well, but he has trouble with aggression.

#231 AnnoyingCustomer

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Posted November 25, 2012 - 03:25 AM

I'm sorry but I can't reply to any more posts. I've already been told that anything I say is trolling. You guys keep going. I can't answer or respond to any more posts on this subject. Good Night...


Lol nice try at disguising the cop out...

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#232 underworldmike

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Posted November 25, 2012 - 03:26 AM

One man is playing and the other isn't.

Upgrade.


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#233 CYLakers

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Posted November 25, 2012 - 05:21 AM

That's not what I heard last year when Howard wasn't our center. It was all the centers fault. Let's get rid of Bynum and get the great Howard and everything will be great. What a crock. If anything we are worse than last year. The record speaks for itself. When Drew played we lost in the end because of him. Now that we have Howard it's not the centers fault. Which is it? Was it Bynums fault last year or was it collective? You all can't have it both ways....


Well that's what a GOAT canditade was hearing too in the late 70s when he carried his team almost alone through the RS and playoffs. That doesn't mean that is right, and does not excuse your reactions against him.

Again. Records are made by teams. You 're just speaking about one player. Against Dallas i saw the perimeter players playing defence like never before this season. And we won big. If Dallas had their full roster we wouldn't be so effective but still we would have benn better than before.

When you see players passing by Nash Blake Meeks Bryant or Metta with them not even commit a foul when they have the chance you cant blame only the Center that has to cover his man and the driver to the basket.

It's always collective.Still Bynum was worse as a defender than Howard and always will be.

Bynum can't play the passing lanes as effective, can't guard as good outside the lane, and can't be as good a help defender as Howard is. Not even mentioning the P n R situations.

The two things that Bynum has over him is the FT% and the height that might help him in certain situations inside.

Thats what their careers told us so far.
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#234 Lakers4Life

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Posted November 25, 2012 - 05:40 AM

Can you guys stop biting on the line of Lakerfansdude? To be honest I dont even know why he hasnt received a permanent ban yet, he only comes here when
A) To talk about Bynum
B) To talk about how Bynum is better than Howard (usually comes when Howard has a bad game)

He adds nothing to this community. His not even a real fan, just a troll trying to instigate others.

Anyways not my place for that. But a message to all other fans here, just ignore the dude and let him talk to himself and he will eventually go away...

In terms of Howard: Im on the give him some "time" train.
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#235 KB24BlackMamba

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Posted November 25, 2012 - 06:00 AM

I said before I Like Howard. I just don't think he's such a huge upgrade, if any, over Bynum that you all say and seem to think. That is my main argument.

He isn´t such a huge upgrade over Bynum ? Even Kwame Brown at this point would´ve of been an upgrade over Bynum, cause he´s atleast PLAYING, not bowling.
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#236 KB24BlackMamba

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Posted November 25, 2012 - 06:04 AM

His defense was "great"? Come on dude... Biased much? If it was Kwame Brown there tonight instead of Howard and had those numbers you'd be asking for his head. Howard was good tonight, maybe, but definitely not great, lol...

Did you even watch the game ? Did you saw how many shots he changed? Elton Brand trying to fake him 5 times and then called for the 3 sec violation ? Howard make´s Lakers defense so much better, how can´t you see it ? Did you noticed when Howard was taken out of the game, right away the Mavericks took it to the rim, but when he was in the game they settled for jump shots or met Howard at the rim and put up wild shots that usually were off, or got blocked by Dwight.
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#237 gque24

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Posted November 26, 2012 - 07:35 AM

LA jsut isnt giving D12 the ball in low post period. he keeps catching the ball almost all the way out to the 3pt line = worthless for his gm. we are putting him on an island for easy turnovers & steals by oppsoing players cuz he has to do too much to work to get his attempts. Sometimes they dont need to anything but let D12 run to lower block & give him the ball low 4 times at least per qrt and let him go to work quickly instead of giving opposing teams a chance to collapse on him. its not about running plays thru Coach D's system for D12 all they have to do is give him the ball on the damn block regularly.
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#238 lakersince75

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Posted November 27, 2012 - 05:41 AM

That's hard to answer, so let me break it into two parts.

1) If we kept Mike Brown, and had a healthy Drew, and brought in Nash...we'd likely be better than 7-7, BUT not better at the end of the season. That's assuming Nash still gets hurt. Kobe, Gasol, Bynum, Ron and Morris would still run through a similar offense we did last season, and we wouldn't spend time learning it.

2) If we ditched Brown, brought in D'Antoni, and had a healthy Drew and an injured Nash, then no, because D'Antoni isn't very fond of big men taking up space in the low post, and Bynum can't run the floor like Dwight can.

At the end of the season, the Kobe/Bynum/Gasol trio doesn't contend. We lose just like we did for two years. Add Nash, and we still don't beat the Thunder OR Spurs...may get to the WCF, but we can't beat two P&R-heavy contenders with Drew as our defensive anchor + Nash as our horrible defender at the point. It would be the same result.

At the end of this season, the Kobe/Howard/Gasol trio can contend, because we have two extra things: a center that we can play through + get our shots through (as he has done for years in Orlando), and we have a big man that can come out on P&R's and lessen the negative effect of our lack of defense at the point (whether it was Fisher, Blake, Sessions, Morris, Nash, Goudelock, whoever).

Add Nash to that trio, and then D'Antoni, and you're taking four starters (minus Nash) that have to learn an offense they have never played in before, and when your other starter (Nash) is injured, and his replacement isn't a true uptempo facilitating PG, you don't have much to work with at this point.

But, once the offense is learned, if Nash is okay with running a bit less and letting both Kobe and Dwight play as superstars (and not as role players in a Phoenix system), we will contend. We have the best defensive big man, and one that can put teams in the penalty within 6-8 minutes sometimes...and a guy we can rely on as a primary option AND a shot-creator, when Kobe isn't shooting the ball well OR Nash is struggling getting past someone like Rondo.

Bynum is a traditional back-to-the-basket low post player, also, so with him camping down low, Kobe takes more jumpers. Bryant has played with two big men like that (Shaq and Drew), and it keeps him out of the paint a bit more. With Howard being able to step out and face his man up, taking them off the dribble, and Nash and Dwight operating P&R as easily the best duo in the NBA (if both were 100% right now, since both were the best P&R players at their positions), that's a free lane, and easy one-on-one match-ups, for Kobe. Gasol should be taking advantage of it as well, but he has trouble with aggression.

A healthy Bynum is the best TRADITIONAL center in the league. D12 is the best center for this system and roster. (especially with a Pau like PF) There is nothing wrong with Dwight. Everyone will see this a third through the season. If D12 accepts his role as an 19 point 15 rebound C/PF, he will be fine. If he feels he needs 20 touches and 25 points per game, we are in trouble

#239 LakeShow805

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Posted November 27, 2012 - 08:28 AM

A healthy Bynum is the best TRADITIONAL center in the league. D12 is the best center for this system and roster. (especially with a Pau like PF) There is nothing wrong with Dwight. Everyone will see this a third through the season. If D12 accepts his role as an 19 point 15 rebound C/PF, he will be fine. If he feels he needs 20 touches and 25 points per game, we are in trouble

No. Dwight is the best center. Period.

#240 Estate

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Posted November 27, 2012 - 11:21 AM

Laker
Fans are spoil....C'mon man...D12 just got off back surgery April!! Back surgery Bro!!! For him to playing this early is a blessing for the Lakers. If we didn't trade D12 with Bynum...we will have Pau & Hill starting...Bynum playing bowling.

We have 2 year window. Early struggle is good sign, and D12 need time to regain his strength & timing...try stop doing something for 6 months...

There is nothing wrong with D12, except his FT. Once he is 100% on the court, that will translate to his FT percentages.





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